RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: steve62 on Wednesday 19 November 14 17:29 GMT (UK)
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Hi Forum Members,
Looking for documents in Italy, then send me a note.
Sometimes I have success and sometimes no. No harm in trying.
I've lived in Italy now for 20 odd years.
Steve
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Hi, I am after a marriage for a Lorenzo Maganetti and Maria Corvi between 1810 and 1820 in Tirano, Sondrio, Lombardia, Italy. I am particularly interested in the names of Maria's parents if you have access to these records. Family Search has lots of Tirano records on line but they only start from 1866 and Maria had died before 1866.
Any help greatly appreciated.
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Hi mixedupmob,
The records for Tirano should be held by the State Archives of Sondrio.
Tomorrow morning when the office opens (half-day) will have a word to make sure they have the records for those years and if not who has. It could be only the parrochial records at the diocese.
The marriage certificate should have the parents name mentioned.
Let you know tomorrow what is happening and keep you informed.
If I manage to get hold of it I can send it and translate for you.
Steve :)
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That would be great Steve. I know Maria was born 1795 and the first child I have for their marriage was born in Feb 1820 so the marriage would have been before 1820.
Look forward to hearing what you have found.
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Hi Steve
I'm after the marriage of Angelo Marino Minni (b ca. 1846) and Emilia de Vita (b ca. 1847). I think they could have been married in Bagnoli del Trigno, Campobasso in the 1860's.
Angelo was born in Bagnoli del Trigno, Campobasso. They lived in Bagnoli and the first of their children that I know of - Costanzi Minni - was born in Bagnoli in 1869.
I would be delighted if I could find their parents names.
sami
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Hi sami,
This is a bit easier as the records will be held by the local town hall. All being well the records have not been transmitted to the Archives.
Have e-mailed info and requested a copy of the marriage certificate.
For curiosity Bagnoli del Trigno is in the Province of Isernia and the Region is Molise.
As soon as I hear will let you have a copy and translation.
Will keep you informed.
Steve
:)
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This is a bit easier as the records will be held by the local town hall.
Hi Steve
Fingers crossed at this end.
A recurring story in my family is about a fire at the Bagnoli town hall which destroyed quite a few records.
Look forward to hearing from you :)
sami
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Hi mixedupmob,
Made a few phone calls. The Archives do not have the records. The Town Hall records start from 1866.
Parrochial Records ; have sent e-mail to the three churches where they could have married.
Let you know as soon as I hear.
Steve
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Hi mixedupmob and sami
Not forgotten. Still waiting and have sent a reminder to both.
Steve
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Thanks for the update Steve :)
sami
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Hi Steve
There is a gap of birth records on the antenati.san.beniculturi site for the hamlet of Alpe di Stazzema, in the town of Stazzema, Lucca Province, Tuscany, Italy, for the years 1818-1822.
I have ancestors born in those years.
The missing years are held at the Archivio di Stato di Firenze.
They sent me one ancestors details but aren't very helpful in sending me more details.
I think they see me as a bit of a pest as I've contacted them loads of times.
I am looking for details of the births of children of:
Iacopo Mazzei and (Maria) Rosa Guazzelli (married before 1818);
Pietro (Gaetano) Mazzei and Giovanna Catelani (married September 1819);
(Giovanni) Lorenzo Bertellotti and Rosa Angela Mazzei (married January 1821);
Lorenzo Barsi and Lucrezia Mazzei (married October 1819).
Can you help?
If you can't supply the relevant pages, the transcriptions would be fine.
Thanks
Darin (England).
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Hi Steve
My gg grandfather came from Liverpool to Australia in 1856 on the ship "Sir W F Williams" so he says, there is no record of him as a passenger, he was a mariner so he could have been a crew member, no record of that either. He said that he came from Trieste, Italy on his ship manifests when he worked in Tasmania on boats going from Hobart, Tasmania, Australia to Melbourne or Sydney, Australia. He was born 25/12/1832 and his name was Nicholas Bonachi or with a t Bonachit or it could be Bonniccia when pronounced sounds like my name now which is Bonnitcha with a silent t (Bonni cha). He also said on his nationalised papers that he came from Ragusa, Austria and that his parents were Marcello and Catarina no last name on either of them, it also says that Marcello was a seaman.
Any information on Nicholas or his parents would be greatly appreciated as I have also asked other people, but they seem to come up with what I already have. I know there could be some variations in the name but I don't know where he actually came from. I have had some relations who thought he came from Croatia and went to Croatia but they came up with nothing, so I am thinking he is Italian as lot of my Italian friends have said, but as they live in Australia they can't help me with anything.
Hope you can help me.
Thank You
Stephen
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Hi Steve
Not sure if you can help in the slightest as I have no definate details - just info that we have been told. We are trying to figure out the mystery of my late nan's father ( BC States unknown) we have been told her sisters ( born 1942 & also deceased) has a Reginald Juggins who was italian and came over to hereford and/or Wales and died during the war. To be honest it sounds a cover story to me as I don't think reg juggins sounds italian in the slightest and we don't have copy of her BC yet. Just wondered if there was a way to find out if he actually was a real person & a serving soldier in Italy etc. I don't have any other details on him except that and not expecting a miracle ;-)
Thank you
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Hi, l have been searching for anything on my Gt Grandfather in Italy all records he has only put Italy as place of birth, l have no date of him coming to Uk but he was married in 1882 but they already had 2 children my grandfather Francis 1877 and his brother Charles 1879 but have found no records of either of these births all other children of the marriage where registered .
His name was Francesco Travi born 1858 and he was a wire worker, his best man came from Como Italy and the boss of the firm which l think my Gt Grandfather worked for Peter Licari died whilst on holiday or retired back to Italy at Ville Albese Prov Como Italy so maybe my Gt Grandfather came from there , so to have rattled off and hoping you can work a miracle for me.
Sandra
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Hi everyone,
Sorry being late in replying, but here goes to all.
mixedupmob: Church records are not digitised and very old. Seems will take years for someone to sort it out. Sorry that seems a no no.
sami: Short answer to my question from Bagnoli del Trigno - No records. Again seems a no no.
mazzie74 : Probally because they would need a d.o.b. Do the ancestor records have anything to do with them? Let me know if yes or no. Will then try and sort out even without d.o.b.
stephenbonn : First the surname would'nt be Bonachit, thats not italian. Will try Archives under the name of Nicola Bonachi/Bonniccia.
crazywelshgirl : Juggins is'nt italian, but could have anglitised his surname. Leave that with me and see what I can find UK/Italy.
reflector : It could well be Como for your Francesco Travi 1858. Will write to the Archives and see.
As you can see sometimes it is easy and sometimes not. Depends if the records are in handwriten volumes or have been digitilised. I am still waiting after three months from Messina and several follow ups and telephone calls.
Steve
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Hi, Thankyou for giving it a try, l forgot to say that on Francesco's wedding cert he states his father is Francis a Tailor dont know if this will help.
Sandra
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sami: Short answer to my question from Bagnoli del Trigno - No records. Again seems a no no.
Hi Steve:
Thanks very much for trying. Perhaps there's some truth to the family story about the town hall records being destroyed in a fire after all.
If you are still willing to search some more I've got a couple of other names and towns for you to try.
sami
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Reflector: Sandra lets see what we get from the Archives and take it from there.
Sami : Must have been the fire. Yes give me the names and I will try for you.
Steve
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Hi Steve:
Here are a couple more names to try:
Anna Maria Di Giacomo
born Sept 1872
Castiglione di Caroviglio, Campobasso
married Constanzi Minni ca. 1900
Her Father's name was Vincenzo Di Giacomo and she had 2 sisters that I know of - Brigita Di Giacomo and Maria Di Giacomo (those 2 emigrated to the US and became nuns).
Wondering if you can find out anything about Vincenzo, his wife or any other siblings.
Thank you again
sami
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Really appreciate that Steve thank you! Know it's a long shot and am convinced it's all nonsense but there's always that what if!
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Hi Steve
My wife's ancestor was John Lando born 1836ish in Genoa he was British by birth according to all the Scottish Census's. He first appeared in Scotland age 15 in 1851. The family story was he escaped from Italy on a vessel which was crewed by a family member.
I have found a Giovanni Battista Lando born in 1831 in Moneglia near Genoa, parents Simone and Petronilla Marengo.
I have ship info where a Angelo Marengo and Giovanni Lando were crew. It appears that he may had escaped while the Siege of Genoa was on in April 1849.
I have looked through the film on British Births in Genoa at the local Family Search with no luck.
Can you help please
Peter
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Hi Peter,
I used to live in Rapallo 30 kms from Genoa on the coast. Moneglia is in the Province of Genoa. The Birth records should be with the Archives. Will send e-mail for Giovanni Lando 1831/1836.
See what I can find.
Steve
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sami,
A bit of confusion here.
Campobasso is the capital of the Province of Campobasso, region of Molise. There is no Castiglione di Caroviglio.
There is a Castiglione part of the town of CAROVILLI in the province of Isernia, region of Molise.
Could be a mis-transcription in your records. Where did you get the town from.
Please let me know and if it is as you say I will write to the Campobasso Archives and the Molise region Archives. Btw. its not a problem for me, so don't worry.
Steve
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stephenbonn,
Have written to Archives for Trieste and Archives of Ragusa under the name Nicola Bonachi/Bonnaccia b. 25/12/1832.
Mention Ragusa as it is a Province of Sicily. Assuming "Austria" is a mis-transcription and maybe a town in Prov. of Ragusa. Someone may have transcribed what they heard and spelt it wrong.
Steve
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Hi Steve
My Wife appreciates what you are doing for us as we have been searching for over 15 years now.
I have all the Lando surnames Baptised between 1817 and 1837 at the Parracchia Santa Croce which were sent to me by the Pastor.
My John Lando died in Scotland in 1917. The crew member Giovanni B Lando was drowned when he was Master of a ship named Austerlitz which sank in 1871.
As my ancestor was British would he be Baptised John rather than the Italian Giovanni?
Peter
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stephenbonn,
Hi Stephen,
Just got a reply from the Trieste Archives. They do have these documents and suggested I write to the Historical Diocesan Archives in Trieste. Have sent them an e-mail.
Still waiting to hear from the Archives in Ragusa.
Steve
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reflector
Hi Sandra,
Got a "clipped" reply from Como Archives this morning. Must be someones "bad day".
Asked for my full address and fiscal code before they will research.
Replied with the details.
Steve
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sami,
Have written to the Archives for Campobasso with the info. Hopefully if there has been a mis-transcription, they will pick up on it.
Steve
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crazywelshgal,
Cannot find an equivelant in Italian for "Juggins".
Checked the site for Commonwealth War Graves Committee to see if he died/casualty in WWI/II.
Only two are:-
James Herbert Juggins (RN) d. 14/07/40 and George Douglas Juggins (RN) d. 07/05/41.
So I would say he did'nt die in the War.
Checked Ancestry / Familysearch and only one coming up is Reginald William Juggins b.1915 and died 1973 in Herefordshire.
If you get hold of one of the Birth certificates that mentions him, it should have his trade.
Do you have any info on your nan's mother?
Do you have your nan's marriage certificate as that would give father and trade.
Do you have any other documents that relate to him?
Sorry not been more helpful, but any scrap you can think of let me know whether it be Italy or the UK will try and help.
Steve
(modified. Forgot the surname Juggins originally Breton or Cornish)
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Hi, we all have bad days l suppose but lets hope it leads to some good news,
thankyou
sandra
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Campobasso is the capital of the Province of Campobasso, region of Molise. There is no Castiglione di Caroviglio.
There is a Castiglione part of the town of CAROVILLI in the province of Isernia, region of Molise.
Could be a mis-transcription in your records. Where did you get the town from.
Please let me know and if it is as you say I will write to the Campobasso Archives and the Molise region Archives. Btw. its not a problem for me, so don't worry.
Hi Steve:
I got the name of the town from my Dad and Uncle on a rare day when they were both happy to sit down together and talk about their family history. They knew very little about their Mother's family and I may have written things down incorrectly.
So it could very well be the town of CAROVILLI in the province of Isernia, region of Molise rather than Campobasso.
I really appreciate your efforts Steve, thanks again :)
sami
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Hi there, my great great grandfather James whitehead worked in Italy in the 1800s. He worked for a marine engineering company called Maudsley Field and son. One of his sons was born in palermo scilly. I would love to find out more about what he did out there. Are there any records that would tell me where they lived and what he did? Also I found a death record for a james whitehead in 1858 in Trieste which I kmow isn't near palermo but was wondering whether it was him as I know he died around that time. Do you have accessto that death record? James was born in 1821 in Lambeth and was married to Mary. He had 5 children and also worked in spain. Thanks in advance for any help.
Vicky
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Thank you ever so much Steve for looking into this for me. We have my nana's birth certificate which has no father named and have just ordered her sisters to confirm if this is true name or if it is also blank for father.
I have come across the Reginald Juggins in Hereford from a previous search and he is a possible for us as there is a story involving their mother going to Hereford to be with said mystery man and being turned away. It's either him or the name is made up completely for some reason. Hunt for the truth goes on!
Really appreciate your efforts - pretty sure the Italian soldier story is all fabricated!
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UPDATE TO ALL REQUESTS
Have received one reply for "reflector". Regards all others have sent reminders and still waiting for the info, so no one is forgotten.
reflector: Sandra received a reply from the Archives. Suggested I write to Diocese Records in Como. Have done. The Archives have no record of Francesco Travi b. 1858 as he born before the unification of Italy. They have checked the military records they hold and no mention. They say he may have served Military Service elswhere in Italy. Let you know as soon as I hear anything.
As a matter of interest for your records have attached the letter and not translated as mentioned above the contents.
Steve
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Hi Steve, thanks for that but l wonder if Francesco came to UK to get out of military as he would have been in his late teens early 20,s from the dates l have and could you explain what the unification of Italy was?
Sandra
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Hi Sandra,
Its possible he fled Italy so as not to do military service. But how the system worked before the Unification of Italy in regard to military service I don't know.
Now the various little kingdoms or realms in Italy became unified on the 17th. March 1861 into one country - Italy. So when researching it is neccersary to write for Church records prior to that date. Some records are held by the various regional State Archives. Not all Church records are held at the Parrochial Archives, so it you need to write to an actual church. Thats why Italian research is complicated and difficult at times. After 1861 BMD are held at the various town registry offices. Do they always reply to requests? Sometimes and sometimes no. There is very little that has been transcribed and put on the internet. Familysearch is doing their best to transcribe records at the moment, but it will take a long time.
Hope that puts you in the picture a bit better now.
Steve
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Thanks for that Steve, l did not know about the Unification.
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Hi Sandra,
Just got a reply from the Diocese Records of Como, not good news I'm afraid.
All records prior to 1929 are held by the Church in question. At the moment there are 338, but up until the mid 1800's there were 494.
Born in Como could mean the Town of Como or in the Province of Como. Latter meaning there are more churches.
The surname Travi can be found throughout the Province of Como.
They suggested I contact the "Archivo Storico Diocesano of Milan" as they may have some records. I telephoned them and they have no records.
They also say the only way to find any records is to contact every Church. Obviously not knowing the actual town at least, that is going to be a very long drawn out process and take sometime. It could end up unfruitful.
What would like me to do?
Steve
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Hi Steve:
Thank you for the kind offer. My ancestors were Irish and English; I just started researching for a friend - I don't know where to begin when it comes to Italian records.
I do not yet have full details, but I hope to try to eventually find a marriage in Italy (I know - it's a big place) :-[ for a Simone Gimelli and Mary/Maria Durarte/Duarte c1901. My research is early, but there is a possibility that Simone was born in Genoa, possibly "Loano, Genoa". Simone was born in 1878 and Mary/Maria was born c1878. We don't yet know where in Italy Mary/Maria was born.
Would you be able to find their marriage without knowing the exact date, or without knowing any location? Thank you for reading my post. Any feedback would be very much appreciated; thank you. Lisa
PS Simone was also known as Samuel when he lived in the states.
Update: According to the California Death Index, Maria Durante was born in 1878.
We are now wondering if his name might actually be Gimelli Simone.
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Hi Steve, thankyou so much but l think that is asking just to much to search that lot, at least we can assume he came from Como as it was only a guess putting the other factors together, we think Francesco may have left under a cloud as apart from him saying he came from there nothing was ever said or not passed down which was very unusual from an Italian, we have never been able to find my grandfather or his brothers birth in London as they were born before marriage of Francesco and Sarah ( even as it was 30 years after birthregistration came into force) and even Sarah was a puzzle but we finally found her not born in London as stated and her name was Matilda Sarah it had taken us 5 years to find her so l think Francesco is a brick wall l will have to sit behind. I do hope to come to Italy next year and go to Como just to see where he came from.
Thank you once again for all your hard work.
Sandra
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Just another little note no other Travi came to UK and all those named Travi in UK are from my Great Grandad so thats something !!!!!!!!!!
Thankyou
Sandra
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Hi Steve62,
I am trying to help a friend trace her ancestor, Luigi Guiseppe BERRETTI, who was born in Italy (possibly Pesaro) in 1856 to Gysonon and Letitia (nee GALONE?) Berretti.
He was the eldest child of six. His siblings were; Giuseppe, Cesare, Assumpta, Isola and Teresina.
Luigi emigrated to New Zealand about the 1870’s, married in 1888 and had several children.
Any help you can give would be appreciated as the family knows nothing about Luigi's life or family in Italy.
Spades
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TO ALL WAITING A REPLY FROM ME.
I am still waiting for replies after sending reminders and apologise. I have not forgotten. Now is Italian holidays, so more waiting!!
Some news which might help in the future.
There is a Petition and Consultation for Italy to have a "Freedom of Information Act". This should enhance the current law. Hopefully it will make it easier to obtain records. Time span? Have to wait and see.
Steve
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Thanks for keeping us posted Steve :)
sami
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Thank you for letting us know, Steve. :)
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GIOVANNI LANDO
Hi Peter
Just got this morning an e-mail from the State Archives of Genova. There records are 1796-1812.
Suggested I write to Town Hall in Moneglia. Have sent them an e-mail.
Being Italian Holidays it might take some time.
Steve
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Thank you very much Steve for taking the trouble helping us in the Lando search.
I obtained the baptism certificate from the Parish of the Holy Cross in Moneglia for
Gianandrea Baptist Lando
Simon's son
and Petronilla Marengo
legitimate spouses
born September 7, 1831was baptized on September 8, 1831
They had no further births. Lets hope the Town Hall comes up with information.
Peter
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Hi Steve
Thank you for attempting to find the information for me. Sorry, I have not replied before but I have not been keeping up with Rootschat posts.
Just one other question - where or to whom do I contact to find out about deaths after 1910 for someone who died in Tirano? I know I can access deaths from 1866-1910 as they have been digitalised by family search and are available for browsing on their web site.
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Hi mixedupmob,
Italy was unified in 1861 and so all records after that date are held in the local town halls and or the Church records.
For 1910+ I would go for the Town Hall in Tirano. They may not search if they do not have a date and or month to check.
Ufficio Anagrafe,
Comune di Tirano,
Piazza Cavour, 18,
23037 - Tirano(SO)
Italy
te: +39.342 708326 e.mail: servizio.demografici[at]comune.tirano.so.it
If you want and send me some details I can try and get the info for you. Its not a problem for me.
Steve
Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please replace [-- at --] with @
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Steve, thank you for your kind offer. The death registrations I am after are for the following people:-
Giovanni Pietro MAGANETTI died about 9 May 1932
Antonia GANDINI died about 6 June 1937
Pietro MAGANETTI died about 23 June 1932
I would like to confirm the actual date of death, parents and/or spouse of each. If the information I have been given is correct then Pietro and Antonia are husband and wife and Giovanni is their son.
Any information you can get will be greatly appreciated and I thank you for your kindness in assisting me.
R.
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Hi mixedupmob,
Just sent an e-mail to the Town. They should be able to find them given the dates more or less.
Don't know how long it will take.
Steve
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Thanks for that Steve.
I look forward to their reply in due course.
R.
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mixedupmob,
Just got a letter from Tirano and have the 3 Death Certificates:-
MAGANETTI, Giovanni died 09/05/1932 at Tirano. Husband of IMPERIAL, Caterina
MAGANETTI , Pietro died 23/06/1932 at Tirano. Husband of GANDINI, Antonia
GANDINI, Antonia died 06/06/1937 at Tirano. Widow of MAGANETTI, Pietro
If you would like the Death Certificates I can scan them and attach here.
Steve
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Hi Steve
Thank you so much for getting that information and yes I would like a copy of the death certificates please.
R.
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mixedupmob,
Hope I have attached the Death Certificates correctly. Not translated as they seem self explanatary, but if you wish will do.
Should have mentioned:-
MAGANETTI, Giovanni - died aged 46
MAGANETTI, Pietro - died aged 73
GANDINI, Antonia - died aged 77
Steve
Just tried and files are too big. Send me PM with your e-mail.
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Anna Maria Di Giacomo
born Sept 1872
Castiglione di Caroviglio, Campobasso
married Constanzi Minni ca. 1900
Her Father's name was Vincenzo Di Giacomo and she had 2 sisters that I know of - Brigita Di Giacomo and Maria Di Giacomo (those 2 emigrated to the US and became nuns).
Wondering if you can find out anything about Vincenzo, his wife or any other siblings.
sami,
Have written to the Archives for Campobasso with the info. Hopefully if there has been a mis-transcription, they will pick up on it.
Steve
Hi Steve:
Just wondering if you have had any response from Campobasso?
sami
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Sami,
How embarrassing after all this time.
It slipped my mind to re-contact them. Please accept my sincere apologies.
Tomorrow will telephone and see what has happened. Once I have the B.C. of Anna Maria DI GIACOMO I should be able to find out about her parents as it will give their details and hopefully(usually) their year of Birth.
Will write you tomorrow and let you know what they have to say.
Steve
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Sami,
After a telephone call the other week and a promise to look, I received an e-mail yesturday.
They will write as soon as pratical, but they have a big workload on at the moment.
So looks like we are going to have a bit patience.
Steve
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Hi Steve:
Thank you for letting me know.
I don't mind having "a bit of patience" especially if it produces some results.
Thanks again for all of your efforts :)
sami
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Sami,
ANNAMARIA DI GIACOMO
Good news!! Just got a letter with the BC from Isernia:-
The Birth on the 06/09/1871 at 8 o'clock in the morning of DI GIACOMO Annamaria in Carovilli, Isernia. Daughter of DI GIACOMO Vincenzo and RICCI Donata.
Footnote: DI GIACOMO Annamaria died on the 15/09/1958 at Bagnoli del Trigno.
If you would like a copy of the original document I will scan it and send it to you.
Steve :)
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Hi Steve:
Thank you so much for this - and yes, a scan of the original document would be wonderful :)
Can hardly believe another name has been added to my tree - ranks right up there with one of the best Christmas presents I've ever had :)
Thank you again for all your efforts.
Buon natale :-*
sami
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Sami,
Hope the certificate is attached.
Vincenzo & Donato when married and their parents. A needle in a haystack.
I would need to know month and year they were married and where, otherwise the town hall will not check their records.
Let me know if you have any dates and places.
Steve
PS. Just got a message "the file is too large". Send PM with your e-mail.
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Hi Steve:
Just sent you a PM with my email.
I'll do some looking and see if I can dig up some information on the month and year Vicenzo & Donato were married.
sami :)
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Hi Steve,
I know it's a busy time of year, so I will try to be patient awaiting a reply. ;)
I would love to find out more about my Granelli family. My great grandfather Camillo Francesco Granelli was born about 1878 in Santa Maria Del Taro. His brother Agostino born about 1874 in Bedonia. Their parents were Francisco Granelli and Maria De Lucchi (sp) and both were deceased before 1908. I would like any information on any of them, and of course it would be great to go back a generation too.
Fingers crossed!
ninatoo
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:)
Steve;
Just want to say Happy Holidays! And thank you for all the help you provide here! Where in Italy do you live?
My ancestors came from Toritto and Grumo Appula, two small towns very nearby each other about 15 Minutes inland from the coast of Bari.
I would love to find some information on the death of my great-grandfather, Vito Antonio Silecchia. I think he died in Grumo sometime between 1910 and 1915, but I am not sure. He was born ~1854 so I cannot find his birth records, but I have found lots of brothers and sisters. The Silecchias had large family's....my father is the youngest of 12 children.
Again, thank you for taking the time to help people with there searches! May you have a great year in 2016 for you and your family!
Richard Florio
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Forget about my request Steve, I located the death records online! Happy New Year!
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ninatoo,
My apologies for the late reply!!
Will get back to you later on today.
Steve
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ninatoo,
Before I do anything I telephoned the Comune di Bedonia. They are now charging euro.14.00 per certificate.
Are you looking for the BC's of Camillo and Agostino? Regards MC of Francesco and Maria - do you have a date for which they can search? If you want certificates I can ask the Comune to search and let me know if they have them and the total cost. I can then pass it on to you with details of how to pay.
I have never paid for certificates before in other Comune.
Let me know what you want to do or if there is any ther help I can give you.
Steve
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Hi Steve - just wondering if you could help me as I'm not having much luck myself!
I'm looking for the marriage of my distant cousin - as there is no record of it in the UK registers I am thinking they got married in Italy.
Her name was Kathleen Marie Short and his name was Giulio Silvio Grizi (Conte apparantely). The marriage was in 1926 and I'm guessing Rome as their address when she died in 1968 was Via Emanuele Gianturco 5, Rome. Her mother's name was Margaret Short nee Moore (died 1960 in Rome) and her father's name was Henry George Howell Short (died 1917 London).
If you can help at all that would be great!
Thanks so much, Nina
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Hi Nina,
There are 15 Town Halls in Rome and as we do not know which one I have written to the main one. Have supplied all the info you gave and asked where I might find the info ie. which Town Hall - given the address you gave me on death in 1968.
Will let you know the prgress as soon as I hear something.
Steve
:)
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Steve - that's fabulous and so kind of you! Wow - 15 Town Halls! I had no idea! I look forward to hearing from you when you have some news - thanks again, Nina
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Steve;
I have a question that perhaps you can answer. I have been researching for some time now and I have found several of my families marriage certificates. In some of the older ones, there is a listing of documents that the spouses and parents provided such as BC and Death certificates if a parent was deceased. What I am wondering is, are the details of these documents recorded and filed with the marriage certificates? I know I have not found any images of them. Perhaps they were not allowed to be micro-filmed? Is it possible to write to the communes and request this information? Or can they be searched in person at the Provincial Archives in Italy? Or maybe they were not saved and were discarded?
Hope you are having a nice year and Thanks for all the help you provide!
Richard Florio
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Hi Richard,
Sorry for the late reply - don't seem to be getting alerts when someone makes a posting on "Italian Research".
If there are any dates on the MC of the parents, such as Birth or Death I can probally obtain them from the "Comune" as long as they are after the Unification of Italy in 1870. Prior to this some Provincial Offices may have the records. If not it would be Church records.
Let me have some dates or a scanned copy of one of the MC.
Steve
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OK Steve No Problem, Let me see which ones I need the most...there are a few but I don't expect you to spend too much time with it, So I need to prioritize.
Unfortunately, I am dealing with lots of family issues right now and also this is Easter week, so we will have to put this aside for now. I will get back to you in a few weeks. Thanks and Have a nice Holiday!
Rich
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for the opportunity to ask for advice/assistance.
I'm looking for two possible Italian ancestors and don't know where to start finding Italian records. They married and had children in Losone, Ticino, Switzerland, but the Church records state they came from the Kingdom of Sardi (now part of Italy I'm told), so I'm interested in birth records there if any exist.
The first is Victor CARMINE. Records I've found state he came from Cannobii, Sardi. According to those records, he would have been born around 1772 with his father named Caroli Antonii CARMINE, mother unknown.
The second is Maria Angela DELL'ORO (also seen written as just Angela or Angela Maria). Records state she came from Intra, Sardi. She would have been born around 1784 with her father named Petri DELL'ORO and mother Maria (surname unknown).
From looking at Google maps, I've assumed the modern places are Cannobio and Intra, both in Verbano-Cusio-Ossola, Piemonte, Italy. Please correct me if you think that is wrong.
Any suggestions on how to further my research would be gratefully received.
Thanks,
Ross
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Hi Ross,
Thats a challenge - not been that far back yet.
You are right both towns would be in Verbania, Piemonte on the border with Switzerland.
To start have sent an e-mail to the State Archives in Verbania to see what they have and if not where I can search in the old records.
It is possible they hold records, depends if they have been transcribed from the old Church records.
Another place of search is the diocese records for Verbania. I once tried for some records for the very early 1800's in Lombardia and was told they were locked in a room and had'nt been looked at for years and needed an expert. No date given when though.
Leave it with me and we'll see what they come up with first and then take it from there.
We might need a bit of patience before they reply :)
Steve
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Hi Steve
did you get all the notifications?
Dawn
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Hi Dawn,
Yes I did and thanks again for the advice.
Steve :)
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Hi Ross,
Thats a challenge - not been that far back yet.
Hi Steve,
Yes, I hadn't noticed any others that far back, but I thought I won't know what's possible if I don't ask :)
Thanks for having a go. I'll wait and see if you turn anything up (with patience of course).
Regards,
Ross
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Hi Ross,
Surprise this morning, got a reply from the Archives. They do not have the records, but suggested I write to Parrochial Archives of Cannobio.
Sent an e-mail this morning and just wait now and see wht they have to say.
Steve
:)
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Hello Steve,
Could you please help to find a birth record for Maria Canova born 17 March 1890 at Possagno in Treviso province. Her parents were thought to be Francesco Canova and Margherita Perizzollo. Would also like to obtain a copy of Maria's marriage record to Antonio Rostirolla on 13 November 1913 also at Possagno. Maria and Antonio migrated to Australia. Thank you for your help.
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trevthecat,
No problem. Have written for the records. Her BC will show her parents and the address where she was born. The MC will also show the parents of both and their professions and addresses. Or should do.
Might take time.
Steve
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Thank you Steve. Really appreciate your help.
Will be interesting to see what records you can access in that area. The FamilySearch records seem to be a bit patchy in that region.
Regards
trev
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Hi Trev,
Speed of lightening, never happened before, got both certificates this morning!!
The BC of Maria states born 17/03/1890 at Possagno, Treviso and parents were Francesco Canova and Margherita Perizzolo. No other info other than the register number.
The MC of Antonio Rostirolo and Maria Canova states the date "05/01/1914" and not 13/11/1913 as that does not exist. The MC gives their names, place and date of Birth. There are no parents names mentioned unfortunately.
If you like the original documents, which are self explanatary send me a PM with your e-mail and I will send them to you.
Out of curiosity I trawled the web and found the following and think it might be the family of Antonio or you may have this info:-
Francesco Rostirolla (no dates) & Angelina Cunai (no dates) married (no date)
children: Angelo (no date); Benedict (no date); Francesco 1877-1953; Luigi 1880-1959 and Antonio 1889-
Steve
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Steve,
Thank you and also for the extra information. Not sure where that Francesco fits in. Apparently Rostirolla is a very common name in that area. I will PM you as I do like to see original documents if I can.
trev
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Trev,
Got your PM message. Send me one now with your e-mail and then I will send the documents.
Steve
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Hello
I Am looking for the birth of Matilda Capocci who was born about 1915. I believe she may have arrived in UK during WW2 from Italy and she married here in 1942 and stayed.
Thanks
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Hi hevside,
Thats a real needle in a haystack and not possible without further info. I.e. place of Birth at least.
There are very few Italian Records on line and you have to the local register offices or Church records, depending on date.
It is not possible to check a name with a date here as there is no central register as in the UK.
If you can provide me with some more info I will be happy to help you.
As a matter of interest I checked the London Aliens Register at the National Archives and no result. All aliens were required by law to register with the police and they are a good source of info. Again unfortunately nearly all were destroyed during the bombing in WW2. In this respect if she lived outside London there is a slight possibility a record may have survived. I was lucky sometime ago looking for someone in Salford,Lancashire. The records had been destroyed, but in an old police station closed they found register. So it is possible sometimes.
Let me know if I can help in anyway.
Steve
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Hi Steve, greetings from Australia. My relatives lived in Tarquinia, Lazio. I have been to the Commune di Tarquinia twice but they have not been helpful, probably because of the language barrier (although I did have help from a local). I have been looking for any information on my great grandparents Nicola Di Bartolomei and his wife Maria Romani. To find a marriage would be heaven and possibly disclose their parents.
Nicola Di Bartolomei was a peasant who worked and traded in grain and cattle, he died with debts.
I know Maria died during ww2 either in Tarquinia or Santa Marinella, may have been 80 when she died - so born in 1870
Their first child (Margherita Di Bartolomei was born in Tarquinia in 1894 - my grandmother - she died in Geelong Australia) so I assume Nicola and Maria married in about 1894. Any help would be so appreciated. I live in hope that one day I can find a lead. Thanks Schio
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Hi schio,
Yes they can be a bit awkard here sometimes. I have had problems getting documents for people and never get a reply.
I'll write an e-mail to the comune and see what happens.
Steve
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I would be so so grateful. I have come to a dead end. This is the last uncharted part of my wonderful Italian tree. When I saw your post I thought wow....this could be the start of something Schio
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Hello Steve,
Is it possible to obtain copies of a person's military records - i.e. for someone who might have served in the First World War? Thank you.
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Trevthecat,
Might be possible
Let me have details.
Steve
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Hi Steve - just wondering if you might have heard anything from the Town Halls in Rome re the marriage in 1926 of Kathleen Marie Short and Giulio Silvio Grizi? Many thanks, Nina
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Hi Steve, wondering if you'd be so kind as to help me. I am looking for a Francesca Todaro who was born in Villa San Giovanni, Reggio Calabria on 2nd April 1926. Francesca married a Gilbey in 1947 and came to England. She died last year here in England. Would love to know parents or siblings if that's possible? I've researched Ancestry and other websites with no joy.
Many thanks.
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Yvonne-W,
No problem, have sent an e-mail to the Villa San Giovanni.
Steve
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Many thanks Steve.
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Hello Steve,
Is it possible to obtain copies of a person's military records - i.e. for someone who might have served in the First World War? Thank you.
Trevthecat,
Presume its you.
DE FILIPPIS, A WWI Service Records doctor in Italian Forces.
The Florence Archives have replied and said we need a date of Birth. With that info I can write to the Military Authorities for his record. They also say if he wasa doctor he would have been an officer in the army.
Steve
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I would be so so grateful. I have come to a dead end. This is the last uncharted part of my wonderful Italian tree. When I saw your post I thought wow....this could be the start of something Schio
schio,
Not heard from anyone yet, but there have been a couple of months campaigns for local elections, now finished. Give them a weeek and then will remind them.
Steve
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Hi Steve - just wondering if you might have heard anything from the Town Halls in Rome re the marriage in 1926 of Kathleen Marie Short and Giulio Silvio Grizi? Many thanks, Nina
Relseacher,
Not forgotten - see my reply to "scio".
Steve
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Thanks Steve ... :D
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Very Grateful Steve.
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Steve, Sorry for the delay in replying. De Filippis would be another researcher's enquiry.
I am looking for the records for two gents: Mauro Azzollini born 2 April 1893 at Molfetta in Bari Province (parents were Cosmo Damiano Azzollini and Maria Coppolecchia) and the other is Bernardo Gatti born 29 September 1881 at Melara in Rovigo Province (father may be Guglielmo Gatti but not confirmed).
Both gents migrated to Australia but it is not clear if they did their military service as required or actually served during the First World War as per family stories.
Thank you for your help. Much appreciated.
trevthecat
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Yvonne-W,
Just had a reply from Villa San Giovanni, Calabria.
There is no TODARO, Francesca born 02/04/1926 in their registers.
Was the info you gave me from an official document?
Steve
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Hi, yes, the information came from Francescas death certificate which her daughter has. Thanks for trying anyway. We definitely know she was born in Villa San Giovanni, but perhaps she was a bit older or younger than she said. Since my last post I've found out her parents were Rocco & Angela Todaro.
Thanks again.
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Hi Steve
Is it possible to get a marriage certificate when I only have one of the parties names? The marriage took place in Tirano. I am attaching part of a birth registration that I found on FamilySearch and I would dearly love to know the groom's name.
Thanks.
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Hi mixedupmob,
First no attachment of Birth registration.
Secondly - It is possible to find with one name, but do you know the date or at least the year?
They won't search with a date or a year.
Steve
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Hi Steve, sorry about the attachment but I was having trouble getting it to attach and then tried to delete the post without success.
Having another go, if it does not work then the brides name is Maria Maddalena Moraschinelli, born 2 June 1891 and the groom is Antonio ? - cannot make out the name. The date looks like 18 February but year could be either 1907, 1917 or 1927 - I am having trouble reading it.
Thanks.
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Hi mixedupmob,
On the left hand side it states:-
MORASCHINELLI, Maria Maddelena on the 18/02/?? contracted in marriage with ?????? Antonio in the town of Tirana, Sondrio. Signed The Registrar - 16/04/1927.
I would say as the annotation was made on the 16/04/1927 that the marriage must have took place on "18/02/1927". I have written for a marriage certificate with this information.
Steve
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Thanks Steve, that is what I thought it said.
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Hi Steve
I know that you are busy, I was just wondering if you have heard anything from Ragusa or Trieste yet, you said in your last post last year that you was waiting to hear from them.
Stephen
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Hi Stephen,
My sincere apologies - Just had a look at my notes and realised I had not replied to you.
The Historical Diocesan Archives in Trieste have no records. Asked me if I knew the Church. So dead end there I'm afraid.
Ragusa - Wrote don't know how many times, but never replied.
Don't give up. As you have jogged my memory I will on Monday telephone Ragusa.
Steve
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Thanks Steve, I will wait for your reply, don't apologise, I know that you been busy.
Cheers Stephen
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Hi Steve
Did you know that Nicholas's parents names were: Marcello and Catarina ?
Stephen
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Hi mixedupmob,
On the left hand side it states:-
MORASCHINELLI, Maria Maddelena on the 18/02/?? contracted in marriage with ?????? Antonio in the town of Tirana, Sondrio. Signed The Registrar - 16/04/1927.
I would say as the annotation was made on the 16/04/1927 that the marriage must have took place on "18/02/1927". I have written for a marriage certificate with this information.
Steve
Hi mixedupmob,
Just got a reply from Tirano. They cannot find any marriage registration for Maria Maddelena Moraschinelli for the year 1927. They apologised and said without the year it would consume time looking through all the previous years. I think we should appreciate that they have limited personnel and other work to expedite. The town hall Registers Offices in Italy have a lot of work dealing with people who claim residency, change of residency,permission to stay, visas, Identity cards, passports and a lot more. So I think it is fair to say they have little time to research without dates.
In the end I think our assumptions that they married in 1927 is wrong - it could have been 1926 or before and that it was only registered in 1927.
Steve
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Thanks for trying Steve. I appreciate that they even looked outside the date we assumed was correct. Maybe one day I will find out.
Thanks again for the effort you put in for me and others it is greatly appreciated.
R.
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Steve
Have you had any reply from the Town Hall in Moneglia re Giovanni Lando yet. I see from all the topics that it is a full time job for you.
Thank you very much Steve for taking the trouble helping us in the Lando search.
I obtained the baptism certificate from the Parish of the Holy Cross in Moneglia for
Gianandrea Baptist Lando
Simon's son
and Petronilla Marengo
legitimate spouses
born September 7, 1831was baptized on September 8, 1831
They had no further births. Lets hope the Town Hall comes up with information.
Peter
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important
My apologies to everyone. Computer crashed and lost everything - now repaired.
I cannot remember where I have written in Italy for details.
If you are waiting for me, please let me know and I will start again.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Steve
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Hi Steve
Sorry to hear about your computer crash I had one last year ended up getting a new one. I lost lots of family info but gradually getting some back.
My query was about my wife's ancestor John Lando who was British and was born about 1836 in Genoa.
GIOVANNI LANDO
Hi Peter
Just got this morning an e-mail from the State Archives of Genova. There records are 1796-1812.
Suggested I write to Town Hall in Moneglia. Have sent them an e-mail.
Being Italian Holidays it might take some time.
Steve
Thank you very much Steve for taking the trouble helping us in the Lando search.
I obtained the baptism certificate from the Parish of the Holy Cross in Moneglia for
Gianandrea Baptist Lando
Simon's son
and Petronilla Marengo
legitimate spouses
born September 7, 1831was baptized on September 8, 1831
They had no further births. Lets hope the Town Hall comes up with information.
Peter
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Hello Steve,
Sorry about your computer problems.
Would really like to find military records for Bernardo Gatti who was born 29 September 1881 at Melara, Rovigo Province. His family would like to know if he served in World War I.
Thank you for your help
trevthecat
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John/Giovanni LANDO
Hi Peter,
Town Hall have replied and said they do not have the records as it is before the unification of Italy. They said the only way would be to try Church records. In that case we would need to know if he was born in Moneglia.
Steve
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trevthecat,
Will write to Rovigo State Archives first and see what they come up with.
Steve
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Thanks, Steve. Will see what happens. It would be great if we could find this.
trevthecat
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trevthecat,
Just got a reply from the Rovigo Archives. They have no documents relating to Bernardo GATTI and he does not result in their Military Records.
Sorry I could not help this time.
Steve
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Dear Steve,
Thank you very much for trying. Your efforts are always much appreciated.
trevthecat
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Hi Steve,
How would I go about finding a Birth Certificate for;
Mario Alberino. Born:19 July 1913. Probably Isle of Capri.
Parents Enrico? Alberino (fisherman) & Maria Rosa Ferraro (B.1888).
Probably married not long before 1913 in Isle of Capri.
It is the parents marriage I am after so I am hoping the sons Birth Cert will give me some clues.
Regards,
John.
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Hi John,
No problem for me.
Have sent an e-mail to Capri this morning requesting the BC of Mario Alberini.
I have also asked if it is possible for them to search for the marriage of his parents, which would be 1912/1913.
As soon as I hear will let you know.
Regards
Steve
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Hi Steve
Would you be able to get a marriage certificate/registration for me please.
The bride was Caterina Maria Maganetti and the groom Pietro Della Vedova. The date of the marriage was on or about 24 July 1911 but no later than 26 July 2011. The marriage was supposed to have taken place in Tirano.
Thanks.
-
mixedupmob.
No problem,have written requesting MC.
Steve
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mixedupmob,
Just got a reply from the "Comune di Tirano":-
"There is no resulting marriage between DELLA VEDOVA, Pietro and MAGANETTI, Caterina Maria per the year 1911 in the town of Tirano".
So the question is where did they get married - in a town nearby maybe, but which?
Sorry I could not help. Post me if you have anything else - only too pleased to help.
Steve
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Thanks Steve. That explains a few things for me even though I was always told that was the date of marriage for Pietro and Caterina it was not noted on either of their birth registrations like most other marriages have been.
I have another marriage that I am after. It is for Giovanni Antonio Accerri. The marriage took place on or about 7 March 1921 in Tirano. I know this one took place as it is noted on Giovanni's birth registration but I cannot make out who he married.
Thanks for your help.
R.
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Hi Steve,
I am doing a bit of research for a friend. Her father (whom she barely knew) died in March 1987 (aged 75) in Ventimiglia, Imperia, Liguria, Italy. His name was Eric Anthony Spencer Batchelor, he was an OBE & also awarded the Military Cross in the war. He does not appear to be on the list of British Nationals dying overseas so perhaps not reported to the British Consul. She has a photograph of the gravestone but needs a death certificate in order to apply for his army records. I wondered if there was any possibility of finding out if there is a death certificate available from the local archives and, if so, how she can go about getting a copy.
Many thanks
Paul
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Hi Paul,
I will e-mail the "Comune di Ventimiglia" and request a copy of the Death Certificate.
It may take time as you can see from above posts I am still waiting for replies. All depends how fast they are. Sometimes they need reminders!
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Thank you very much - no desperate rush.
A little more information - I believe he is buried in the Englis/British cemetery in Bordighera, Imperia. Date of death I believe 28th March 1987, so probably buried in April.
Many of these facts come from public trees on ancestry.co.uk, so have to be treated with a little caution!
Paul
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I am looking for Guiliano Marzano and Carolina Manzione marriage in around 1930 maybe bit earlier in Accentura, Italy.
where do I find records for that time/place
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Hi treemad,
For curiosity the town is in the Province of Matera and the Region of Basilicata (Southern Italy). The population is around 1900.
The records will be with the "Municipio" - "Town Hall". Here they will not search with just a name. They would require a date 00/00/0000 or nearest to it. Given its a small town we might find a kind soul who will research the years 1928-1931.
Leave it with me and I write an e-mail to see if they will kindly look.
A note they are notorious for taking time replying as you can see from the posts above.
Have a nice Christmas and New Year.
Steve
8)
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that would be great, was there any census in the early 20th C?
I have one brother's birth dates 16 AUG 1928
Antonio, Vito, Giuseppi and Dominico could be born either side of Rocco
-
would love to find the parents or births and marriages of:
Rocco b 16.8.1928 to Teresa Manzione
Antonio m Philomena
Vito m Maria
Guiseppe m Margareta Garagusa
Domenico m Adollarata
from Accentura Rooco and Guiseppe had kids in the UK in the 1950's but no record of marriages in the UK so all must have arrived around about 1950 or so.
Rocco and one other
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Hi Paul,
I will e-mail the "Comune di Ventimiglia" and request a copy of the Death Certificate.
It may take time as you can see from above posts I am still waiting for replies. All depends how fast they are. Sometimes they need reminders!
Steve
Hi Steve,
Am I right in thinking that the @Commune di Ventimiglia' has not yet replied to you? Although I don't think there's any particular rush, my friend mentioned it to me the other day. They need the death certificate in order to obtain this relative's army service records in the UK.
thanks
Paul
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Hi Paul,
Not heard anything so I gave them a quick telephone call this morning to see what was happening.
At the moment they are undated with work and it is not forgotten. Think we may have to wait a bit.
My thoughts on the problem maybe Ventimiglia being an Italian/French border and the huge problem they have with immigrants claiming asylum and residency. That is not racialist remark, but a fact.
I will keep on top of it for you.
Steve
-
Many thanks
Paul
-
Hi Paul,
The lady I spoke to at the "Comune di Ventimiglia" has pulled out my request as a favour and replied this morning.
She could'nt find anything for Ventimiglia so she checked nearby towns and found that he actually died in Bordighera (nearby). She has given me the Register Number and Serial Number.
I have this morning given all the details to the "Comune di Bordighera" and now await a reply.
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Very many thanks. I'll pass that information on to the lady.
Regards
Paul
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Hi Steve,
My Grand father's family come from Ortona a Mare.
I would love to try and find out a full marriage date in 1903 for Pietro Iezzi and Angelina Tenaglia.
If it's possible to get the names and ages of their parents too, that'd be superb.
Pietro Iezzi was born on 28th June 1879 and Angelina Tenaglia was born on 22nd April 1883.
I'd be grateful for any assistance.
Cheers,
Greg
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Hi Greg,
As regards the marriage certificate - they may not look as they usually require date/month/year or at least the month and year. But no worries there is another way.
I have e-mailed the Comune di Ortona and requested the Birth certificates of Lezzi, Pietro and Tenaglia, Angelina. This will give the name of the parents and address where born. Usually there is an annotation stating when and where married and the date. It may or may not give the age of the parents. Once I have these I can apply with a specific date for the marriage certificate and see if it gives the ages of parents. Some cases yes and some no.
Ortona is in the province of Chieti, region of Abbruzzo.
As soon as I hear will let you know with relevant translation.
Steve
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Thanks very much Steve. I'll wait to hear more. Cheers, Greg
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Hi Paul,
Just got the Death Certificate by post of ERIC BATCHELOR from Bordighera.
As you will need the original for the lady and not a copy it might be an idea if you send me your address by Private Message and I can send it with translation for you. I will destroy your address afterwards.
The certificate gives his date and place of Birth in France and his Death in Italy. It also gives his wifes' name.
Steve
-
Steve
That's marvellous - thank you very much. I'll send my address shortly.
With thanks
Paul
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Hi Paul,
Got your address and will post tomorrow morning the original Death certificate and translated copy.
You don't owe me anything and it was a pleasure to help you. You know where to find me if in the future I can help with anything in your research.
Steve
PS. Your address has been destroyed as promised.
-
Hi Steve,
Just a follow up.
I noticed that in your reply to me regarding the BC of Mario Alberini you spelt his name ALBERINI. Oops!(reply below, 26 Oct 2016).
Just checking what spelling you used in the email to Isle of Capri?
Regards,
John.
....................................................
Hi Steve,
How would I go about finding a Birth Certificate for;
Mario Alberino. Born:19 July 1913. Probably Isle of Capri.
Parents Enrico? Alberino (fisherman) & Maria Rosa Ferraro (B.1888).
Probably married not long before 1913 in Isle of Capri.
It is the parents marriage I am after so I am hoping the sons Birth Cert will give me some clues.
Regards,
John.
.........................................................
Hi John,
No problem for me.
Have sent an e-mail to Capri this morning requesting the BC of Mario Alberini.
I have also asked if it is possible for them to search for the marriage of his parents, which would be 1912/1913.
As soon as I hear will let you know.
Regards
Steve
-
Hi John,
Thanks for the message. Spelling error I made on here :P
Will be tomorrow chasing all the "Comune" who have'nt replied to the members requests on here.
Steve
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Hi Paul,
Got your address and will post tomorrow morning the original Death certificate and translated copy.
You don't owe me anything and it was a pleasure to help you. You know where to find me if in the future I can help with anything in your research.
Steve
PS. Your address has been destroyed as promised.
Hi Steve
Many thanks, the certificate arrived during the week and I passed it on to the lady yesterday. She was extremely happy!
Best wishes
Paul
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Paul,
You are very welcome and pleased I could help.
------------------------------------------------------------
Those who waiting for me. I have sent reminders out.
Good Wishes
Steve
-
To all who waiting for a reply from me for records.
I have not forgottten and have written several times for various certificates, but to no avail at the moment.
Last try I made last week and still waiting.
Apologies to all
Steve
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Hi Steve, thankyou so much but l think that is asking just to much to search that lot, at least we can assume he came from Como as it was only a guess putting the other factors together, we think Francesco may have left under a cloud .......
Sandra,
A bit of good news after all these months!! The Diocesis Records of Como said they could'nt help if you remember as there were/are many churches. Well Sandra some kind sole from the Diocesis has spent time researching the Church records and come up with the Baptism Certificate for Francesco.
If you send me by "PM" your e-mail address I will send a copy of the original and a translation.
Steve
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RE: FRANCESCO TRAVI
For curiosity and nice little story.
I have recently sent by e-mail a copy of the Baptism Certificate and translation to Sandra(reflector).
Francesco was born 08/01/1854 in Domaso, Como and Baptised 10/01/1854. Mentioned are both parents.
After searching various official offices I came to a dead end because I did not know which Church and it would have taken for ever to comb through them all. Bearing in mind most records have not been transcribed. Forgot all about it as a "dead end". In June of this year I received out of the blue the baptism record. I have since found out that it was an old priest who took the trouble to look at the very old registers in the cellars of the Bishops office. Must have been a long and ardious job for him.
It is hard at times getting hold of documents here in Italy, but this one has outshone them all. I have personally thanked the person concerned.
Steve
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Hi Steve, Thankyou so much , what a lovely man he must be that did this for me and would like you to thank him from me, l cannot wipe the smile of my face .
The thing is my sister had her DNA done and no Italian ancestry came up so we thought he must have lied about being Italian but appears not, what happened l wonder with the DNA.
l have come up against a brick wall with my Grandfather and his brother have searched every archives l could but no birth for them, l think that if my Gt grandfather registered them maybe with his accent the spelling was wrong so will be impossible to find.
l cannot thank you enough :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
regards Sandra
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Sandra
You are very welcome.
Have replied to your PM.
Steve
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Hi Stephen,
My sincere apologies - Just had a look at my notes and realised I had not replied to you.
The Historical Diocesan Archives in Trieste have no records. Asked me if I knew the Church. So dead end there I'm afraid.
Ragusa - Wrote don't know how many times, but never replied.
Don't give up. As you have jogged my memory I will on Monday telephone Ragusa.
Steve
Hi Steve
Sorry I haven't been on for a while, just checking if you have heard anything about my g g grandfather Nicholas Bonnitcha (Bonachi, Bonachit, Bonaccia, Bunatach).
Stephen
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Hi Stephen,
E-mailed Ragusa again and got no answer. Telephoned them the other day (thanks for the reminder) and seems no go there either.
Any other info that might pin point something. The records are somewhere or is it someone is not looking properly here.
Steve
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Hi Steve
I have been researching a family called Bertolla for a cousin but have not been able to find anything for the family from Italy the one we are interested in is
Henry Caesar Joseph Bertolla from 1901 census his birth is c 1857 and he is from Firenze Florence
he married in England in 1896
are any records available from Florence? please
sandie
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Hi sandie,
Will have a go and see what I can find out. Take time as the BC will not be in the Florence Registry as it was before the Unification of Italy.
I will use BERTOLLA, Enrico Cesare Giuseppe as that would be the italian name at Birth. Must have changed it when he went to england to the english.
Steve
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Hi sanie,
Looking at the site "Archivo di Stato Firenze" they should have a copy of the Birth, but they say they need 00/00/0000. I have sent an e-mail and kindly asked if they could look at the year 1857.
As I mentioned before it may take time for them to answer.
Steve
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thanks Steve, and thanks for Italian name I wasn't sure of it or spelling!!
will have another look for any dates I might have missed
sandie
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bit of a problem Steve on the dates Henry was in workhouse and dates entered were 1851,52 and 53 .............1901 census says he is 44 mind he has just married a 24 year old
his death record says abt 1857 this was in 1933 so it could be I am asking too much
Sandie
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No problem wait and see what the archives have to say. Workhouse 'record could be eŕror. Inclined to believe the 1901.
Steve
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ok thank you Sandie :)
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Hi Stephen,
E-mailed Ragusa again and got no answer. Telephoned them the other day (thanks for the reminder) and seems no go there either.
Any other info that might pin point something. The records are somewhere or is it someone is not looking properly here.
Steve
Hi Steve
All I know is that Nicholas at 24 years came to Tasmania in 1856 from Liverpool, England, we don't know if he was a passenger or a crewman, he wasn't mentioned on either lists, he said that he arrived on the same ship "Sir W F Williams" as did his future wife Euphemia Fraser with her two sisters. He always worked on the ships in Tasmania going from Hobart to Melbourne or Sydney, on the ship manifests it was written that he came from Trieste, Italy, he worked on the ships for about 40 years. His parents were Marcello and Catarina with no last names.
On the ship manifests they spelt his name as Bonachit or Bonachi, which eventually turned into of what it is today Bonnitcha which is pronounced Bonni cha with a silent (t). When his children were born the name had different variations like Buoneitach, Bonacich, Bonicha, Bonachi, so his accent must be strong and they had a wild guess and spelt the name how it sounds.
On his naturalization papers in 1909 he said that he came from Ragusa, Austria, so a bit of confusion there. Nicholas died in 25th September 1913 in Hobart, Tasmania and was born 25th December 1833 ?, if this was his true birth date.
This is all I know,
Cheers Stephen
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Hi Stephen,
Thanks for the info. I'll have a look at the history of Italy-Austria at that time and where Ragusa was. Could be he is in Austrian records.
Anyway leave it with me and I'll do some checking here and there. Not much to do at the moment, so it'll be a pleasure.
Steve
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Hi Stephen,
I must be stupid. Just been making notes on the salient points in your posting. Ragusa is a Province of Sicily. How he came to put Ragusa, Austria on his Naturalization papers, have no idea. It may be an indication for Trieste. Trieste is and was a large port and that is more indicative place of his Birth as being a merchant seaman as well. So will concentrate on Treiste and when it became part of Italy and when it was part of Austria.
Intrigued with this guy now.
Steve
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Hi Stephen,
Been doing some research on Trieste as I think that is where he came from.
In what I write now might give an indication of the confusion.
Trieste is in the Fruili-Venezia-Giulia Region of Northern Italy and lies between the Adriatic Sea and Slovenia and Croazia lies some 30 kms to the South. (Think you mentioned sometime Croazia.)
It was part of the Habsburg Monarchy from 1832 to 1918. (Thats where the Austria bit you mentioned comes in). It was the fourth largest city of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. (So now we have Hungary) In 1918 Trieste was given to Italy. In 1945 after WW2 it was split into two zones; Zone A to Italy and Zone B to Yugoslavia. In 1954 under the Memorandum of London Trieste joined Italy. I think in 1918 "given" means that was annexed to Italy.
The nearest surnames I can find for the province of Trieste are; Bonaccio, Bonacchi and Bonacci.
After all that do we assume he was born in Austria and the records are there somewhere or was it registered in Trieste all the same.
In conclusion I have written to the State Archives in Trieste because they may have records even though it was part of Austria at the time. If they do not have the records where can I find them.
Might take time for them to reply, but have penned a note in my diary for a follow-up if needed. Very intriguing.
Steve
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Hi Stephen,
Eat my words!! The Archivio di Stato Trieste have just replied.
They do not hold Civil Records. No mention of where I could look.
Dropped a posting on an Italian geneology forum with details and see if anyone can come up with some ideas.
Keep you posted.
Steve
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Hi Stephen,
Have just sent an e-mail to to the Diocasan Archives of Trieste as they suggested on the Italian Forum. They also told me if no joy, there only two parishes in Trieste at the time. So if negative will try them.
Steve
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Sandie,
Just got a reply from Archivo di Stato Firenze.
Sent me the Birth details of your BERTOLLA, Cesare Giuseppe. Time and date of Birth and place. Parents names and professions. Date of baptism and the witness.
If you send me a PM with your e-mail address, which I will delete afterwards, I will send you a scanned copy of the original and a translation in english.
Steve
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Wow that is incredible, PM on its way
Sandie
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Just wanted to say a big thank you Steve I couldn't have had a better outcome to my request and so very quick, you are a star helping us all like this
thanks again Sandie
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It was pleasure. Now and again I get results.
Steve
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Hi Stephen,
Have just sent an e-mail to to the Diocasan Archives of Trieste as they suggested on the Italian Forum. They also told me if no joy, there only two parishes in Trieste at the time. So if negative will try them.
Steve
Hi Steve
I am trying not to be a pest, but I have been thinking if the name could be Nicholas Boniccia which sounds nearly the same as Bonnitcha, take out the tch and put in the cci and minus one n...lol. I think if you try with Nicholas Boniccia it might help, let me know what you think.
Cheers Stephen
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Hi Stephen,
You are not a pest and I appreciate suggestions from anyone as sometimes "two brains" are better than one.
In fact when I wrote to the Diocasan Archives in Trieste I mentioned variations of the name.
They may take time as the registers will probally be in the cellar. I had an earlier request on here and eventually went to the diocasan records - not Trieste - and an old priest went to the trouble of finding the registers and checking and gave me details. It took some time though.
Steve
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Hi Steve
could you find any record's for my wife's Pacelli's
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=768514.msg6208166#msg6208166
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Hi dathai,
I have had a quick read through the other postings and presume you are looking for the parents of Vincent Pacelli 1838 and his wife Mary Rose Sovino 1843. In Italy that would be "Vincenzo" and "Maria Rosa".
It is possible to get hold of their BC's with just a year. although they prefer 00/00/0000. Some State Archives have these old records and some do not. In the later case it means writing to the Diocesan Archives for that area. All can take time.
I need to know their place of Birth here in Italy. The BC will mention the parents names and there could annotations as to marriage as well. If I missed something in the other postings please correct me.
Let me know what you know and it is a pleasure to help you if possible.
Steve
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Hi Steve
as you can see i am working back from Francis Pacelli who has had me stumped for several years as his marriage is not registered in Ireland or Scotland,just recently i stumbled across a marriage for his sister in law at which he and his wife were the witnesses so i was able to find his wife's line back one generation and found a few sisters for her.
The wife's cousin had a copy of the travel document 1919 i think where it gives his date of birth as 1868 in Marsicovtere,Potenza,even in the last five minutes i have found 2 travel docs which i had never seen before
Age 46 1913 born 1867
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99DQ-GWVC-Q?i=4151&cc=2185163
age 51 1913 born 1862
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99DQ-GWJY-1?i=4152&cc=2185163
I have no info on Vincent Pacelli or his wife Mary Rose Savino/Sevino
They said on the 1911 Dublin Census they had 5 children alive and were married 40 yrs
which to me judging on their estimated dates for children would be before 1860
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Trinity_Ward/Brunswick_Street__Great_/88615/
Their son Joseph died 1912 and they returned to Scotland and then emigrated to Canada in 1913 where they died shortly after.
There is no rush as i have waited years to get this far and any thing found after this is a real bonus.
Dathai
oops is that second document dated 1919
there was some talk in the family that he may have been stranded because of WW1
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Hi Dathai,
To start with I have written to the "Archivio di Stato Potenza" to see if they can find the BC of Pacelli, Vincenzo 1838 c. and his wife Savino, Maria Rosa 1843 c. and have suggested they were born in Marsicovetere, Potenza. I know they have some records and lets hope it includes these two years.
Wait for a reply nd take it from there.
Steve
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Hi Steve
you are very helpful and it is much appreciated that you a perfect stranger should offer to do this for me and so many others.
I cant thank you enough no matter what the outcome.
Dathai
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Hello Steve, I have just come across this interesting thread! I have Italian Ancestors and have a lot of info on my great grandfather who was from Sora, Frosinone.... Stato de Civile, birth/marriage acts etc...What I was wondering though if you can obtain info about deaths? :)
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Hi sheronb
Let me have info and see what I can do for you.
A pleasure
Steve
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Hello Steve.
Thank you very much for your help. I am hoping to find info on Vincenza Tuzi 1876 -05/05/1903 I think the date of death is correct it's from the State de Civilie, her parents were Amadio Tuzi and Maria Domenica Lombardozzi. From Sora, Frosinone, unmarried as far as I know. Family rumour is that she died in a fire. Also if possible her mother, Maria Domenica Lombardozzi she died on 29/09/1881, after that husband and son, my g,grandfather came to England.
Thank you very much again.
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Hi steve62
Seeing my Scots/Irish lineage back to 1775, my wife has become interested in her Italian heritage. We would be most grateful for any additional information relating to her grandparents below:
Paternal:
Martino VITALI (b. 8 Dec 1881, Mu, Edolo, Brescia d. 24 Aug 1942, Fremantle, WA)
married circa 1912, possibly Mu, Edolo
Domenica .......... (maiden name btb also VITALI) (b. Unknown d. Unknown)
Issue: One child, Giovanni (b. 2 Apr 1913, Mu, Edolo d. 20 Sep 1973, Fremantle, WA). Domenica did not emigrate with Martino to Australia, although Giovanni did so as an adult.
Maternal:
Emilio DE (DI?) LUCA (b. Unknown d. Fremantle, WA)
married < 1922, possibly Montenerodomo, Chieti
Maria NERO (NERA?) (b. Unknown d. Fremantle, WA)
Issue: Vincenzo b. circa 1922, Consiglia b. 1923, Lucia b. circa 1927, all born Montenorodomo.
Kindest regards and many thanks in advance for your efforts on our behalf.
q98
Fremantle
WA
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sheronb and q98,
TURZI, Vincenza - Requesting BC and we will see what annotations are on that
LOMBARDOZZI, Maria Domenica - Requesting DC and that will show the Birth date and any annotations.
VITALI, Martino - Will request the BC and as above will see what annotations there are.
A little patience my friends as sometimes they are slow here in repying, but have dated marked all so I can follow up reminders.
My pleasure
Steve
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Many thanks steve62. Patience was my Mum's watchword!
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Hello Steve,
Thank you very much for your help, no problem how long it takes, though the name you wrote was Turzi instead of Tuzi? Just a trying error more than likely?
Again many thanks.
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Yes a typing eŕror :P
Steve
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Thought so :D :D
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Hi Steve
Great thread, just read through the whole thing!
I'm posting more for some tips rather than a request for information. The reason being the only details I have for my Italian ancestor is his name and approximate age so I already know its a needle in a haystack! His name is Domenico Bonino. Bonino I'm led to believe is a Northern Italian name, especially around Piedmont. Not that, that narrows it down much!
I am just wondering do you have any tips on finding out a DOB or birth location? Or where to begin to look. On all the UK census returns it unfortunately just lists "Italy" as his birth location.
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Hi,
A needle in a haystack yes.
Very little online here in Italy that is why its Archives or Town Halls. Without a date and place of Birth I would say impossible.
Is there nothing in the UK that might mention his place of Birth? Such as was he married in the UK? Immigration/Passenger Lists to the UK? Take up UK Naturalazione? On the census if there were children were they born in the UK or Italy(Birth Town). Is there anyone connected to him which might throw some light on where he might have born in Italy?
Sorry not much help to you, but whatever info you have or find in the UK, no matter how little, drop me a line. Remember I am here to research and help where possible and nothing is too much trouble.
Steve
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there is a tree on Ancestry with photo and this birth
08 Giugno 1903 • San Michele, Mondovi, Piemonte
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just managed to delete post while modifiy
Ancestry have a photo and tree for this
08 Giugno 1903 • San Michele, Mondovi, Piemonte
but there are a lot of this name any idea roughly of birth
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escollay
Does this sound right given you have age. If so can try and get BC.
Thank you sandiep for your input.
Steve
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Hi all
Sorry for the late reply, and thanks for your help. I have an approximate DOB of 1830s for my man.... which only adds to the mysterty ;D ;D
Thanks Anyway!
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dathai,
Just got a reply from the Archives.
They have searched between the years 1837 and 1843 and there are no documents relating to Vincenzo (Vincent) PACELLI or his wife Maria Rosa (Mary Rose) SOVINO.
Presumebly they were born somewhere else, but where?
Steve
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Steve
Many thank's for your efforts on my behalf ,i consider myself very lucky to have got back as far as i have with this family so i am not bitterly disappointed by the outcome.
You are an inspiration to the rest of us genealogists so keep up the good work.
Thank you
Dathai
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Dathai
You are very welcome and am sorry cannot help.
Steve
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q98,
Just arrived copy of the BC for Martino VITALI and attach a copy here. Have not translated it as it is easy to understand. Unfortunately as in most cases I have found now is that they send a copy of a document and not a copy of the actual register. That would have annotations attached. Saving money or quickness ? This BC is probally not telling you anything other than confirming where and when he was born.
In regard to the rest of your posting - unless they have a specific place and a specific date, 00/00/000it is unlikely they will check. Very rarely have I been successful with just a year and a "maybe place".
Afraid I have not been much help this time round.
Steve
PS. Just found out file is too large. Please send me a PM with your e-mail.
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GENERAL NOTE to all waiting for me to reply.
No one has been forgotten and where needed follow up requests have been sent.
The unfortunate point is that there is very little on the internet. Paying sites seem to be more about the UK/USA/CANADA and very little on other countries, well Italy.
So folks is back in time writing to State Archives, Diocesan Archives, Local Churches, Local Town Halls etc. All takes time hoping some kind soul will take time to look.
However I was amazed at one reply I got some time ago. After writing here and there and eventually to the Diocesan Archives I received a reply many months afterwards. A little old priest took the time to go in the cellar and dust off old registers to find the info I required.
In the end I am here and will always try and help where I can.
Steve
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Hi Steve
Looking for location of birth information for Francesco Cavaciuti born December 1888 in village of Rusteghini, Morfasso. Also looking for his marriage to Maria Cavaciuti between 1911 and 1918 also in Rusteghini. You might have guessed that most of village have same surname but Francesco's mother was probablly a Casali and family names are Emilio, Monica, Antonia and Andrew.
Thank you for your offer of help.
Wendy
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Hi Wendy,
There is no e-mail address for the general public unless you are resident in Morfasso.
Tomorrow will send a fax.
Steve
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Hi Steve,
This seems a long shot as I don't have much info but here goes.
Am looking for a John Guarnieri/Guinari/Guarniere. He came over from Italy to London sometime between 1851 - 1861, he then moved to Manchester in England with his wife and family.
Here he is in 1861 as a musician
Name: John Guarniere
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: 1833
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Italy
Civil Parish: Holborn St Andrew
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
.
Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: St Andrew Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 62
Piece: 185
Folio: 105
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Louis Bassino 40
Angel Briank 35
Petro Masochi 30
John Insano 28
Bernardo Armack 35
Gaspar Bassine 32
Joseph Bassino 12
Louis Scartazza 53
John Meske 43
John Guarniere 28
Dominque Lurlin 22
Dominque Masochi 15
Antoine Briante 46
John Cassali 42
Dominque Bellini 18
and here he is in 1881 (After this we believe he left his family and went to Ireland and no one heard from him again)
Name: John Guinari
Age: 49
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Ellen Guinari
Gender: Male
Where born: (F), Italy
Civil Parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 6 Chapel Court
Marital Status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
.
Occupation: Street Musician
Registration district: Manchester
Sub registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3978
Folio: 75
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
John Guinari 49
Ellen Guinari 36
Rosina Guinari 9
Antonio Guinari 7
(not transcribed)
Jane Green 26
James Green 2
If you're able to maybe shed some light on the Surname and it's origins, or even anything about John (unsure what the Italian for John is) that would be excellent! A great thing you're doing here offering your help to people!
Keelan
Update - Just been given this bit of info by a member on here
Marriage
June 30th 1868 Manchester Cathedral
Johannes Gavaneri 39 yrs bachelor Organ player father Dominii Gavaneri, gardener
Ellen Rock, 34 yrs, widow. Father Alexander Smith, Labourer.
Witnesses Vincent and Elizabeth Garibatti
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Hi Keelen,
Needle in haystack without a place of birth and 00/00/0000. Even having this info it would mean trying the Provincial Archives who sometimes have info or Parocchial Archives for the area. Not a big thing, but more long in time. The local town halls only have info after the Unification of Italy. Your ancestor was born before.
Italian records are very hard to find on the internet, with the exception "Family Search" who have some records.
John would be Giovanni in italian. On researching there appears to be no surname as "Guinari" or "Gavaneri". The surname "Guarniere" would appear to be from Northern Italy and predominantly for the Province of Lombardy.
The problem in the UK with foreign surnames is that officials tended to write the name as they heard it. I have ancestors with eastern european surnames written in several ways. My surname Boler started off as Bowler and over the centuries it went to Boaler/Bowler/Boler. I have a Bowler married and his children go as Boaler and vice versa. All confusing, but it makes it harder to research. Managed to get back to 1605.
Sorry much help. but if you find something that might help drop me a line.
Steve
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I'd appreciate any advise from the Italian experts!
In my tree, Maria Messana (see note on surname at the end) was allegedly born in Salerno around 1845. Sometime before her marriage in 1870, she moved to San Severo. Her parents were Michele Messana (born 1817) and Antonia Consiglio (born 1817).
I know that Maria had at least three brothers - Francesco born in 1847 in Salerno, Salvatore born in 1849 in Quartiere San Giuseppe, Naples, and Pasquale born in 1854 in Salerno.
I've found baptism records for all three of the brothers, but not for Maria herself. Apparently the family moved around a bit between Naples and Salerno. Birth records in Salerno for the year of 1845 are not available on the Antenati website - are these available somewhere else or have they been destroyed?
I don't yet have the date of her death (she would have died in San Severo), but no useful information is included in her marriage record or publication.
Her father Michele is another issue for me, as it seems he was born in Caltanissetta, Sicily. This surname has been written as Messano in several documents from Salerno, but Messana seems to be the predominant spelling in this area of Sicily. Michele does not show up in baptisms for the town of Caltanissetta itself in 1817, so it's likely that he was from a village in this region. Ravanusa and San Cataldo seem to have the most Messana people. I also do not know when Michele died but I believe it was before 1879 in Salerno. I cannot find a record of his marriage to Antonia Consiglio.
Ultimately I am looking for Maria's baptism so I can help trace Michele's family farther.
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rlw254,
Don't worry about the surname ending in an "a" or "o". Thats due someone misspelling and won't affect research.
Baptism papers for Maria in 1845 Salerno. They will most likely be Church records. Will write to the diocesean Archives for Salerno and hopefully they will search with just a year. They like 00/00/0000.
Death date - afraid not possible, because no one will search without a date.
Michele Messana b. 1817 Caltinasetta. Again will try the diocesean Archives with just a year.
As to his Death date ditto as for Maria.
Marriage of Michele and Antonia in Salerno 1870. These records will be with the town hall registrar in Salerno as it was after the Unification of Italy. Will write and again hopefully they will search with just a year.
As mentioned in previous posts its sometimes difficult to get info, because they don't reply. Frustrating I know.
Steve
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Thank you for your advice!
Right now I believe Michele died in Salerno between 1870 and 1879. State records available on Antenati do not include 1877 or 1878 and I did not find the death in any other year in this range.
In 1870, marriage of Maria: "... figlia naturale di Michele Messana e Antonia Consiglio, ambo residente in Salerno"
In 1879, marriage of Pasquale: "... figlio di fu Michele residente in -----, e di Antonia Consiglio, residente in Salerno"
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Let's see what I can gain in info first as I have e mailed for info as mentioned above and then we will take from there.
Soon as I hear will let you know.
Steve
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Looking again I was able to find Michele Messano's death in Salerno in 1872, it gives his parents as Michele and Grazia Rondinella, birthplace Caltanissetta around 1815. I am still unable to find this in Caltanissetta church records available at familysearch.org. Hopefully the church can provide more information about him or his daughter :)
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Hi Steve
I was wondering if you could get a couple of marriage records for me please. The bride in both marriages is Marta Lucia DeCampo. From her birth registration record it looks like she married a Stefano surname I cannot read on or about 14 March 1911 (I think) and the other marriage took place on 21 June 1922 to Giuseppe Maganetti - both marriage appear to have taken place in Tirano. I am hoping the parent's names of the bridegrooms will be shown on the registrations. Attached in a copy of Marta's birth registration obtained from FamilySearch's Italian records for Tirano. I have a copy of her first marriage so do not need it.
Thanks for your help.
R.
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Hi mixedupmob,
Looks like the marriage was 14/03/1915, because looking at the "1" in the other its differant. Surname of Stefano magnified looks like "Cestini" to me.
Will e-mail Tirano for the MC, but the marriage in 1922 does'nt look like Tirano the way it is written. Could be wrong, but will request as Tirano all the same.
Steve
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Thanks Steve, look forward to to the replies you get.
R
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Hi Steve
I see you are helping with Italian research, I have located a marriage record for my 3rd great grandfather Domenico Salzillo in Santa Maria Oliveto. I am having problems translating it.Is it possible for you to translate it for me if I attach a copy?
Jim Gathercole
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Hi Jim.
Not a problem.
Attach it and will do. Any problems attaching let me know and will send a PM with my e-mail address.
Steve
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Thank you Steve
Jim
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Hi Jim,
See what you mean about trying to read the document. Handwriting is like a doctors!!
Will read through it and may have a word with an old friend of mine who is probally used to this style of writing.
Leave it with me and as soon as will let you know.
Steve
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Thank you
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Hi Steve, some time ago you sent me my Gt Grandfathers Baptism Francesco Travi, l would like to let you know we have gone from strength to strength with this information we have found Parents, siblings and many more it has been along job as we use the computer to translate and the writing is so bad and some very faded but l would like to thankyou once again and to let people know it is possible, but the funny thing is l cant find my grandfather and his brothers birth here in Uk but we keep looking.
Thankyou
Sandra
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JimGat - Jim, sorry not got back to you yet. Been in hospital (nothing serious). Get back onto it in next few days. My apologies.
Refelctor - Know the feeling I searched for a few years for my g.mother and then suddenly out of the blue up it popped. Maybe another pair of eyes might help. Let me know who and I will try even though I am in Italy I can access UK records. No promises.
Regards to both of you
Steve
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Mixedupmob,
Just got a reply from Tirano for the marriages:-
De Campo, Martino born in Tirano and aged 33
De Campo, Marta Lucia born in Tirano aged 23
29/03/1904 in Tirano
Testini, Stefano born in Montagna aged 26
De Campo, Marta Lucia born in Tirano aged 34
14/03/1915 in Tirano
Maganetti, Giuseppe Pietro born in Tirano aged 22
De Campo, Marta Lucia born in Tirano aged 41
25/06/1922
They are marriages after the unification of Italy and so are in what we call modern form and do not show who the parents unfortuntely.
They are self explantary to read and so translation not needed. Send me by PM your e-mail and I will send them to you.
Steve
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Steve,
bit of a long shot here, but I am trying to trace great great grandfather Antonio Bertolini - born in the Lucca region of Tuscany around 1805/1806. As a young man he became a plaster figure maker and took off to England - probably in the 1820's. He was in Hull, Norwich, where he got married and then in Holborn in London, where he lived to the grand old age of 80, passing away in 1885. I have all the England information - it's just the Italian part that I'm missing. There's some background information to be found here - https://www.npg.org.uk/research/programmes/plaster-figure-makers-history.php . Grateful if you can shed some light on this but it's looking like a needle in a haystack to me. Thanks!
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PD26,
Yes that is a needle in a haystack.
There are over 30 Comune (Towns) in the Province of Lucca. The Province of Lucca is noted for its number of churches. The records will be held by the churches and probally the old ones passed onto the Diocesean of Lucca. Problem here is which Town? That would narrow it down.
Is there nothing in the UK records that mention a town?
Sorry to give you bad news. If something comes up, let me know.
Steve
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Steve,
I don't believe so but I'll comb through all the English records I have again to recheck. Meanwhile I'll be trying to come at it from other directions too. If I come up with anything I'll post again.
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The head of the Plaster figure making company who employed him in Leather Lane, Holborn, London was one Vicenzo Marchetti from from Tiglio. He pretty much stayed there all his working life after his travels around England and settling down.
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Steve, have sent pm - let me know if you do not get it as I am using a different device at the moment and not sure if it went correctly.
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mixedupmob,
Have set you an e-mail. Let me know if you get it.
Steve
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PD126,
Will try Tiglio for place of Birth. Might take some time to get info. Keep you informed.
Steve
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Steve, e-mail came through but the attachment was all scrambled - only showed all coding. When I put it on preview it said their were 152 pages in the attachment so did not download.
You may have to try again as individual certificates.
Thanks.
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Sorry made mistake.
Will send later on today. Out at the moment
Steve
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Hi Steve:
A couple of years ago, I was researching for a friend and I don't believe I received a reply about the following posting. I have resumed researching the family and I am wondering, please, if you might be able to assist me?
Hi Steve:
Thank you for the kind offer. My ancestors were Irish and English; I just started researching for a friend - I don't know where to begin when it comes to Italian records.
I do not yet have full details, but I hope to try to eventually find a marriage in Italy (I know - it's a big place) :-[ for a Simone Gimelli and Mary/Maria Durarte/Duarte c1901. My research is early, but there is a possibility that Simone was born in Genoa, possibly "Loano, Genoa". Simone was born in 1878 and Mary/Maria was born c1878. We don't yet know where in Italy Mary/Maria was born.
Would you be able to find their marriage without knowing the exact date, or without knowing any location? Thank you for reading my post. Any feedback would be very much appreciated; thank you. Lisa
PS Simone was also known as Samuel when he lived in the states.
We are now wondering if his name might actually be Gimelli Simone.
Thank you in advance for any guidance. Lisa
In case this is of help, we believe the following to be their children: Josephine, Angelo, Elsie, Margheri, Giovanni/John, Lorraine, Louis, Angie.
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Hey Steve,
Just the kind of thread I was looking for.
I'm trying to get a birth, death and potentially a marriage certificate for my Italian ancestor, who moved to the UK.
Some general information about him:
Given name(s): Giovanni
Surname: Battista
Birthdate: 19 May 1847
Birthplace: Rocca d'Arce, Frosinone, Lazio, Italy
Alternative Birthplace: Cassino, Frosinone, Lazio, Italy
Father: Antonio Battista (probably, this is listed on his marriage record to second wife)
Occupation: Tailor/Ice Cream Vendor/Street Organ Proprietor
Estimated date of death: 1901 - 1910
First record in England: 1879 (birth of his first child)
I know Giovanni Battista is a common compound first name, but his brothers have the last name Battista too.
Siblings: Vincenzo Battista & Antonio Battista (Vincenzo was living with Giovanni in 1881 census)
Death
So far, I've been focusing on his life in the UK, and I assumed he died there. Unfortunately, I and a few kind people who've done a lot of research on my behalf have not been able to find any record of his death in the UK. So, perhaps, he went back to his home country for a visit or whatever other reason and died there. Here's my thread in the UK section attempting to find his death record in the UK: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=793871.0
Maybe a longshot. Hopefully, he went back to his home commune.
Birth
I have two locations for birth in Italy. The first is from FamilySearch, someone transcribed a record from "Registro dello stato civile di Rocca d'Arce, FHL film 1170678, LDS Family History Library". They have written that the record mentions a Giovanni Battista born in Rocca d'Arce, Frosinone, Lazio, Italy on the 19th of May, 1847. I don't have access to the original record, so I don't know how accurate this is.
The second location of birth is Cassino, Frosinone, Lazio, Italy. The following records list Cassino as Giovanni's birthplace: 1881, 1891 and 1901 England Census. His brothers Antonio and Vincenzo also list their birthplace as Cassino in England Censuses (all 3 brothers moved to North East England).
I understand that Rocca d'Arce and Cassino are approximately 25km away from each other, not too far.
I'm not sure which one it is, as all the UK records say Cassino, but the FamilySearch record is transcribed as Rocca d'Arce.
EDIT: Just received information from River Tyne Lass about Giovanni's father, it's listed as Antoni (Antonio) Battista on his marriage record to his second wife.
Not sure if you have the marriage record for Giovanni and Anastasia but I have found this at Tyne and Wear Archives that they married on 14 February 1901 at St Cuthbert, RC in North Shields. If you don't have it already - this is another to add to your records. :)
'Giovanni Battista ex North Shields son of Antoni Battista & Anastasiam Whalen ex Willington Quay daughter of Timothei Finley.'.
Marriage
This record isn't as important to me as the birth or death, however I do want to be completely sure of his marriage.
I know Giovanni marries an Elizabeth Ellen Lawson in England, 1885. Yet, in the 1881 England Census, he is listed as being married to a Lizabetta Battista who is written down as from Italy. Now, I'm pretty sure this is just a mistake and this is Elizabeth Lawson, but I do want to be sure.
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How would I go about obtaining a birth and death certificate for Giovanni? Any thoughts on the above information?
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Lisa in California,
Post again as the previous did'nt go.
I am taking the marriage as being in Loano in 1901 and have e-mailed for the certificate and hopefully they will look without day/month. Loano is in the Province of Savona, which is next door to the Province of Genova. The surname is Durante and not Durarte. The reason I think it is Loano is because of the following:_
Simoni Gimelli born 08/09/1878 in Loano. Father Angelo Gimelli born 1854. Also found this record:- Francesca Maria Giuseppina Gimelli born 03/05/1902. Father Simone Gerolamo Gimelli born 1878 in Loano. Mother Bianca Durante. Possible the mother had a middle name? It is signed by Simone Gimelli - without Gerolamo. Btw. Giuseppina would be Josaphine in english.
So lets see what Loano comes up with now.
Steve
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Lisa in California,
Lisa, forgot to mention that that the mother of Simone Gimelli (1878) was a certain Francisca Gherardi.
Steve
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Hi Steve:
Thank you very much! Yesterday, I just started researching this family again and your results perfectly match the little that I have found so far.
...Simoni Gimelli born 08/09/1878 in Loano...
Francesca Maria Giuseppina Gimelli born 03/05/1902.
U.S. World War I Registration shows a Simone Gimelli with a birth date of 8 Sept 1878. There is also a California Death Index showing his birth date as 8 Sep 1878.
There is a California death index for "Josephine" (mother - Durante) who had a birth date of 3 May 1902. The California marriage index lists her as Josephine F Gimelli so that also matches what you found.
...I am taking the marriage as being in Loano in 1901 and have e-mailed for the certificate and hopefully they will look without day/month.
I hope they are able to look but if not, what you have found is amazing and is very helpful. Thank you also for explaining about the provinces. Kind regards, Lisa :)
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Steve,
Hello, my name is Charlene.
I'm trying to find the siblings of my great grandmother, Antognia Bono. As far as I know she was born about 1860 in San Giorgio, Ciconio, Torino. She married Carlo Mattioda (birth: 1860). There's a large group of Bono family members in Canada but I don't know how my great grandmother is related which is why I'd like to find out who her siblings are. I have a tree on Ancestry where I've included possible sibling but I don't know if this is accurate.
Her son, my grandfather, Giovanni Battista Mattioda was born in Ciconio, Torino in 1881 as far as I know. He had 3 sisters: Modesta (birth: 1890) Domenica (birth: 1883) and Margherita Lucia (birth: 1885). From what I know some of Antognia's children were born in Ciconio and Castellamonte. I don't know how close these towns are, though. I don't know if Antognia had other children...someone mentioned that there was a twin brother. My grandfather died in 1922 and I didn't know his sisters. Through Ancestry, I've found relatives of his sisters but haven't been able to get info regarding anything in Italy. In addition to my great grandmother's siblings and her parents, I'd like info regarding her children...birth/marriage certificates. (My grandfather and his sisters immigrated to Canada and the United States. To my knowledge none returned to Italy, even for a visit.)
Thanks for your help!
Charlene
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Hi ,
Giovanni Battista , of 89,Finchley Road , Hampstead , Middlesex , died 16th May 1931 at The Italian Hospital , Queen Square , Middlesex . His widow was Camilla Battista .
Is this your Giovanni ?
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Hi ,
Giovanni Battista , of 89,Finchley Road , Hampstead , Middlesex , died 16th May 1931 at The Italian Hospital , Queen Square , Middlesex . His widow was Camilla Battista .
Is this your Giovanni ?
Hey gaynor,
Thanks for the help! I've replied to you on my thread, to help keep this thread free from clutter. Here you go: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=793871.msg6504998#msg6504998 :)
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Thanks for your reply. No, this isn't my grandfather. His full name is Giovanni Battista Mattioda...Battista was his middle name. He died in Butte, Montana in 1922. I'm interested in finding info regarding his mother, Antognia Bono, who married Carlo Mattioda. My grandfather's mother stayed in Italy so I'll need info from Italy.
Thanks again for looking into this,
Charlene
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Lisa in California
Lisa,
Speed of lightening!! E-mailed last night Loano and got a reply this morning. Never had a reply so quick.
Birth Certificate: GIMELLI, Simone 08/09/1878 Loano. Added name afterwards Girolamo.
Birth Certificate: DURANTE, Bianca 21/10/1878 Loano. Added name afterwards in blank and that must be Maria. Father DURANTE, Giobatta and mother POLLA, Maddelena.
Marriage Certificate: GIMELLI, Simone Gerolamo born 08/09/1878 Loano and DURANTE, Bianca born 21/10/1878 Loano.
If you would like the certificates that don't need translating as they are self-explanatory send me a PM with your e-mail.
Regards
Steve
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battista
Had look at Familysearch to see I could get the Birth certificate, but nothing came up. Have now e-mailed Archivo di Stato Frosinone for the certificate. Sometimes people put down Birth in ...... and then .............. I have an ancestor born in Bury, Lancashire and in some documents it says Radcliffe, Lancashire. Next door to each other.
Confused here about Elizabeth Ellen Lawson. You say he married her in 1885 and in the 1881 Census there is a Lizabetta Lawson, which is probally the same person. He married after 1881 and so don't follow that track.
Wil let you know as soon as I get a reply from Frosinone and will translate if needed.
Steve
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battista
Had look at Familysearch to see I could get the Birth certificate, but nothing came up. Have now e-mailed Archivo di Stato Frosinone for the certificate. Sometimes people put down Birth in ...... and then .............. I have an ancestor born in Bury, Lancashire and in some documents it says Radcliffe, Lancashire. Next door to each other.
Confused here about Elizabeth Ellen Lawson. You say he married her in 1885 and in the 1881 Census there is a Lizabetta Lawson, which is probally the same person. He married after 1881 and so don't follow that track.
Wil let you know as soon as I get a reply from Frosinone and will translate if needed.
Steve
Hey Steve,
Thanks. Yea, I figured it was probably just that for the case of birthplace.
As for the marriage, I know he married an Elizabeth Ellen Lawson from England in 1885. However, in the 1881 census, he's married to a Lizabetta Battista whose birthplace is listed as Italy. Giovanni and Lizabetta are listed as being married in 1881, yet his marriage to Elizabeth is actually 4 years later. I believe Lizabetta Battista and Elizabeth Ellen Lawson are the same person.
However, my nonna, does not believe this. So, she's specifically asked me to find a marriage certificate to a Lizabetta from Italy ::) (which I'm sure doesn't exist).
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battista
Had look at Familysearch to see I could get the Birth certificate, but nothing came up. Have now e-mailed Archivo di Stato Frosinone for the certificate. Sometimes people put down Birth in ...... and then .............. I have an ancestor born in Bury, Lancashire and in some documents it says Radcliffe, Lancashire. Next door to each other.
Confused here about Elizabeth Ellen Lawson. You say he married her in 1885 and in the 1881 Census there is a Lizabetta Lawson, which is probally the same person. He married after 1881 and so don't follow that track.
Wil let you know as soon as I get a reply from Frosinone and will translate if needed.
Steve
Hey Steve,
Thanks. Yea, I figured it was probably just that for the case of birthplace.
As for the marriage, I know he married an Elizabeth Ellen Lawson from England in 1885. However, in the 1881 census, he's married to a Lizabetta Battista whose birthplace is listed as Italy. Giovanni and Lizabetta are listed as being married in 1881, yet his marriage to Elizabeth is actually 4 years later. I believe Lizabetta Battista and Elizabeth Ellen Lawson are the same person.
However, my nonna, does not believe this. So, she's specifically asked me to find a marriage certificate to a Lizabetta from Italy ::) (which I'm sure doesn't exist).
Pasquale Battista, who is with Giovanni and 'Lizabetta' in 1881 has mother's maiden name Lawson on the GRO Index, which supports your contention that Elizabeth and Lizabetta are one and the same.
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battista
Had look at Familysearch to see I could get the Birth certificate, but nothing came up. Have now e-mailed Archivo di Stato Frosinone for the certificate. Sometimes people put down Birth in ...... and then .............. I have an ancestor born in Bury, Lancashire and in some documents it says Radcliffe, Lancashire. Next door to each other.
Confused here about Elizabeth Ellen Lawson. You say he married her in 1885 and in the 1881 Census there is a Lizabetta Lawson, which is probally the same person. He married after 1881 and so don't follow that track.
Wil let you know as soon as I get a reply from Frosinone and will translate if needed.
Steve
Hey Steve,
Thanks. Yea, I figured it was probably just that for the case of birthplace.
As for the marriage, I know he married an Elizabeth Ellen Lawson from England in 1885. However, in the 1881 census, he's married to a Lizabetta Battista whose birthplace is listed as Italy. Giovanni and Lizabetta are listed as being married in 1881, yet his marriage to Elizabeth is actually 4 years later. I believe Lizabetta Battista and Elizabeth Ellen Lawson are the same person.
However, my nonna, does not believe this. So, she's specifically asked me to find a marriage certificate to a Lizabetta from Italy ::) (which I'm sure doesn't exist).
Pasquale Battista, who is with Giovanni and 'Lizabetta' in 1881 has mother's maiden name Lawson on the GRO Index, which supports your contention that Elizabeth and Lizabetta are one and the same.
Yep, I found that too (and shown it). I've ordered Pasquale Battista's birth certificate, she won't believe me until her own eyes see the actual certificate.
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battista,
Well seeing the last posting it appears they may have married 4 years later. There is a possibility on the Birth certificate showing a marriage. This sometimes shows on pre-1861 documents.
Steve
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battista
Had look at Familysearch to see I could get the Birth certificate, but nothing came up. Have now e-mailed Archivo di Stato Frosinone for the certificate. Sometimes people put down Birth in ...... and then .............. I have an ancestor born in Bury, Lancashire and in some documents it says Radcliffe, Lancashire. Next door to each other.
Confused here about Elizabeth Ellen Lawson. You say he married her in 1885 and in the 1881 Census there is a Lizabetta Lawson, which is probally the same person. He married after 1881 and so don't follow that track.
Wil let you know as soon as I get a reply from Frosinone and will translate if needed.
Steve
Hey Steve,
I'm also looking for the long form certificate, I believe it's called an "Estratto per riassunto dell’atto di nascita", how can I get that one as well (my nonna explicitly told me to get that one).
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Battista
Tell nonna that's what they should be sending me.
In bacio per la nonna from me.
Steve
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Battista
Tell nonna that's what they should be sending me.
In bacio per la nonna from me.
Steve
Thank you, and I will :)
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Lisa in California
Lisa,
Speed of lightening!! E-mailed last night Loano and got a reply this morning. Never had a reply so quick.
Birth Certificate: GIMELLI, Simone 08/09/1878 Loano. Added name afterwards Girolamo.
Birth Certificate: DURANTE, Bianca 21/10/1878 Loano. Added name afterwards in blank and that must be Maria. Father DURANTE, Giobatta and mother POLLA, Maddelena.
Marriage Certificate: GIMELLI, Simone Gerolamo born 08/09/1878 Loano and DURANTE, Bianca born 21/10/1878 Loano.
If you would like the certificates that don't need translating as they are self-explanatory send me a PM with your e-mail.
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve:
Wow, my friends should be really happy about the extremely quick results (I know I am)! My friend doesn't know anything about this side of his family, so I would think he would be thrilled about finding out so much about his ancestors.
I've sent a pm with my email address. Thank you again! Lisa
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cbocca
Hi Charlene,
Will obtain the BC of the 4 children from the Comune (Registry Office) May or may not show parents. From the State Archives I will get the BC for Antognia Bono 1860. That will show her parents and may or may not have a notation about marriage. Think the name should be Antonia.
As soon as will let you know.
Steve
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Thanks, Steve. I appreciate the help.
I live in California so anyone needing anything from here, I’m happy to help.
Charlene
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Hey Steve,
Do you use PEC when emailing Italian offices?
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Hi Battista,
Have used PEC once or twice, but mainly ordinary e-mail if any. PEC is supposed to be, I think, like sending a registered letter. Makes little differance as I don't always get a reply anyway. As a matter of general interrest. I do follow up e-mails if after time I don't get a reply, but sometimes they never reply and there are people on this posting who must think I am not interested in their postings because they don't get a reply. Its quite the opposite. Its notorious here trying to get info sometimes.
Steve
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JimGat,
Hi Jim,
Sorry to keep you waiting so long, but now have the translation. Had to pass it onto a friend who is 70 years old, because some of it was unreadable and also it was written in old italian. That is the style of the letters. I know he took his time, but its done now and I have thanked him.
Its is about 98% perfect as there were certain words and or small phrases that were unreadable. The outcome is all the essential info you need is there.
Please send me a PM with your e-mail.
Steve
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To who ever reading this Italian Research.
Translation has gone off to Jim and by e-mail he is sending me a couple of certificates to translate.
I not only try and research here in Italy, but can translate certificates etc. So if its not research, but certificate etc translations in your Italian research send them to me and job done. I see no reason to pay someone when I am here free of charge.
Steve
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Hi Steve, did you get any response from the Maria Messana request from reply #209? I understand getting replies can be difficult, just checking in :)
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rlw254,
Shoot me, kill me, ;D, but accept my sincere apologies for not getting back to you earlier.
Wrote as promised to the various institutions and followed them up several times, but never got a reply from any >:(
Unfortunately if you look at some postings on here they have ended up the same way. I know it is easy just to reply and say no we have nothing or look at etc. Frustrating yes! After 30 years here I just go with the flow.
Steve
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No problem at all, thanks for your help!
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cbocca,
Hi Charlene,
Got a reply this morning with the BC. Unfortunately it was in "SPAM". Tried to open the attachments all the same, but they were removed as they contained a "VIRUS".
Have now e-mailed again the Comune and explained. So waiting for another reply.
Steve
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Hi Steve
I was wondering if you could try to get two death certificates for me please. Details are:
Carlo Della Vedova died on or about 8 November 1941 and Margherita Lucia Della Vedova died on or about 31 October 1957. They are siblings and both died in Berbenno di Valtellina, Sondrio.
Thank you for your help.
R.
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mixedupmob,
Sorry not back to you sooner, but its June-July-August beachtime here for me and research has been put on the back burner for now.
Now I can get the certificates for you no problem. How long it will take is another matter. Holiday season here.
Before I write is there some particular you are looking for? The certificates will give name and date of death . There will be no other info as we talking "modern certificates" as opposed to "pre unification" which would give more info most times.
If its just the certificates with the actual date of death you want - no problem will do. If you are looking for more info let me know what info you are after.
Steve
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Hi Steve62
Have you found out any more info on Nicholas Bonnitcha/Boniccia/Bonachit, I am just hitting brick walls, he said that he was on the same ship "Sir W F Williams" as Euphemia Fraser and her two sisters Ann & Janet, no info on him as a passenger or a crew member which left Liverpool and arrived in Australia in 1856.
On his Naturalisation papers he said that his parents were Marcello/Marco and Catarina, no last name. His first child was a girl and named Catherine Ann (Catarina), his second child was a boy named Mark (Marcello/Marco), then came Donald, Matthew John, Nicholas, Euphemia, Joseph and then Jessie Madeline. It is funny how only some of the children have two names where others only have one, I wonder if the middle names could be any significance to his relatives or his children names, Catherine, Mark, Nicholas and Euphemia, we know where they came from but what about Donald, Matthew John, Joseph and Jessie Madeline. Could one of these be his brothers, sisters and grandparents names, interesting...
Cheers
Stephen
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Hi Steve
I would be happy with whatever information is included on the certificate. Should they have been married and the spouse name is included that would be a bonus.
R.
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stephenbonn
Hi Stephen,
Now this is embarrassing and please accept my sincere apologies for the long wait. I had put a cross over your request in my "ongoing research file", which means I replied, but evidently I did not. My mistake.
In September I sent an e-mail to the Diocesan Archives in Trieste and also wrote by letter to the 2 parishes; Santa Maria Maggiore and Sant'Antonio Taumaturgo. Replicated again in January and then in March. Never received any replies. I would have thought "3 times" would have produced something. Unfortunately this is a problem I have had in past for other people. Have now made one last request, but if there is no answer ........
As regards the names you mentioned it is possible they were taken from g.parents/g.g.parents as this was at one time the done thing. As a matter of interest; Matthew(Mateo), John (Giovanni), Mark (Marco), Joseph (Giuseppe), Jessie(Jessica), Madeline(Madalena). As regards Donald cannot find an italian equivelant.
Fingers crossed
Steve
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hi steve,what details do you need to look up for info? i have a few italians i am researching and trying to find info on a few further back.very much appreciate any help. thanks
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Hi mitch601,
I have lived in Italy for 30 years and that is why I started this posting and also my own personal research in the world was coming to an end. I am not a 100% expert, but can usually find my way around the system. Sometimes with results and sometimes not. There is very little on the internet and the Institutions here do not always reply.
But down to your question. If it is after the Unification of Italy in 1861 then B/M/D certificates are available from the local town hall (Municipio) - whether they reply is another matter. Prior to this there are the State Archives and Diocesan Archives. Again whether they reply is another matter. Certificates prior to 1861 will give a lot more info than those afterwards. They can sometimes have an annotation as to marriage/Death.
To obtain documents they require D/M/Y or at least M/Y and place.
If you give me some info on the people you are researching I can try and obtain documents for you and will translate.
Its the height of summer holidays here and everything slows down.
Glad to help in any way.
Steve
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Hi Steve, before I go look at names etc of ones I'm trying to find, do you know how I'd go about finding out if someone was deported from Scotland back to italy between 1970 and 73 ? Also if there were any more children born to a couple? This couple are still living though so not sure if allowed to name them on here. Thank you
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Hi mitch601,
Unfortunately I have no idea how to find someone who was deported from Scotland to Itay in the 70's. To be deported they must have done something criminal and if so they would serve their jail term in the UK. As far as I know there is no accord UK-Italy for someone to serve sentence in Italy.
Further children; presume its UK and if so you can look up "freebmduk" with the surname and mothers' maiden name. Putting in a date from the last child and upwards of 2/3/5 years.
If I am not following your questions, give me more info.
As regards the Italians list the names and dob or dom or dod and Italian place of event. I will see what I can find.
Steve
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TO ALL AWAITING REPLIES FROM ME.
We are slap bang in the Italian Holiday season when most Italians are on Holiday. Sooooo, expect a delay. I will bounce back at the end of August with reminders as there is no point at the moment.
Steve
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Hi Steve, ah ok, that's cool, I was just looking to see if there was a way I could find out if someone (my birth father) HAD been deported. I was told they had been , but have no way of knowing for sure . I did try the embassy IN EDINBURGH 1 but apart from give me his contact details they offered no other info. He is still living but has never acknowledged me hence the reason I am struggling a bit with my family tree. The comune della spezia have been amazing, and gave me what certificates etc they could find. However as I'm going back a wee bit now , info doesn't appear to be there,
Though I have seen a few more names on geneanet that I didn't have before.
As for the other children, no not UK that is to do with my birth father also, I'd never even thought about him having other children until someone asked me a few days ago. (By way just for your info ,he does know about me lol, he married mum the year AFTER I was born) was to find out if was any children from his 2nd marriage. Don't know if I'm allowed to put his and his wife's names on here if still living?
So as for my list of names and what I'm looking for are:
BIRTH ,MARRIAGE ,DEATH FOR :
ADRIANO CHIAPPINI AND CAROLINA OLIVETTI .(parents of silvio) Have no dates but Adriano was born 18/9/1825 in piano de collecchia. And would have died before 1898 (Was first married to A Rosa arguilla)
Same again for: LUIGI PEDRINI AND MARIA LUCCHESI (parents of erminia pedrini)
BIRTH AND DEATH OF ERMINIA PEDRINI, BORN AROUND 1876 IN DISTRICT OF BIGLIOLO. DIED BETWEEN 1898 AND 1909
PIETRO LOMBARDI AND BENIGIA ADORNI (BOTH DIED BEFORE 1909)(parents of aida)
LUCA PIETRO PEDRINI CA 1875
TERESA PEDRINI CA 1882
ANTONIO PEDRINI CA 1885
(All siblings of erminia)
Marriage in aulla for silvio egidio chiappini ( born 23 july 1874 in piano di collechia) and aida Lombardi BORN AROUND 1891 IN DISTRICT OF OLIVOLA (rec 46 , reg in fivizzano Dec 10th 1909)
Death for silvio egidio chiappini
BIRTH AND DEATH OF:
AIDA LOMBARDI
ALSO Have discovered a sibling of silvio called GUIDITTA CHIAPPINI CA 1861 COLLECHIA, MARRIED ALBINO RICCI 12 NOV 1888 CA 1874
It's a long list, sorry, and don't expect you to do it all, just whatever you can come up with would be a great help to me , no matter how small. I'll still be doing my bit to search as much as I can too, thanks Steve.
Apologies for not having many dates so if information can't be found on those ones , that's completely understandable. Thanks again.
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Still working on my Messano ancestor from Caltanissetta -> Salerno a few pages back, just a little progress has been made since then.
Can anyone tell me how to gain access to marriages in the city of Salerno in 1845-1846? These years are missing from the familysearch catalogs and from the antenati databases. Were these years destroyed or lost perhaps?
Since Maria Messano was born abt 1845 in Salerno I had assumed that her parents' marriage was before this date, however I looked a little closer at her marriage to find that she was said to be 'figlia naturale' which indicates her parents weren't married. Her older brother, born only two years later, is not given this title, which tells me that they married 1845-1846. Figures that these two years would be missing!
Same goes for the births in 1844-1845, also missing. Any chance of getting processetti records for marriages in the city in 1872 or 1874 also?
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rlw254
I need to obtain the BC for Maria 1845c. That'll give her parents names. From that I can request a research for their marriage between 1845-1848.
should be able to get all that from State Archives. Could be no one has transcribed those years.
Births between 1844-45; need names and dates and then from the above.
Marriages between 1872-1874 I can get from the Municipio (Town Hall) as the dates are after the unification of Italy Again names and dates.
Steve
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mitch601
Ok a tall order, but leave it with me and lets see what I can glean.
Steve
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OLD POSTINGS (excluding the last two)
Reminders had been sent out, but still no joy!!!!!
Steve
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rlw254
I need to obtain the BC for Maria 1845c. That'll give her parents names. From that I can request a research for their marriage between 1845-1848.
should be able to get all that from State Archives. Could be no one has transcribed those years.
Births between 1844-45; need names and dates and then from the above.
Marriages between 1872-1874 I can get from the Municipio (Town Hall) as the dates are after the unification of Italy Again names and dates.
Steve
Maria's parents are Michele Messano and Antonia Consiglio. As I wrote this I found that the marriage I was looking for was actually in the 1846 records, unindexed, so I had to look through page-by-page. Sometimes just writing your question down to ask makes you find the answer yourself ;D What's interesting however is that the marriage gives Michele's parents names as different than in his own death record... wonder why the difference? I would still be very interested in the supplemental processetti records for this marriage since these provide the birth record of Michele and the death records of his father and grandfather - 1846 is missing from Antenati.
And Steve since you seem like the guru, maybe I'll also ask - how can I obtain information from pre-civil registration records if church books are not digitized? Is this done merely by writing to town hall with the information I am looking for? I have one or two lines traced back to the 1600s in Italy which were drawn out by sheer luck in finding supplemental marriage documents from a marriage of someone very old around 1810, but there are numerous births and deaths from before the civil registration that I would be very interested in finding.
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Hi Steve,
I have only just seen your note and kind offer of assistance with Italian research so first of all THANK YOU for such a generous offer.
I have also only just stumbled across my need for Italian research as DNA tests have just been extremely successful and without any doubt I know have to focus on Italy at the time of reunification and diaspora in the last quarter of the 19th century. I have had a go with the Italian archive website but it only has only records for 1861-65 for the region I am looking at.
If I give you the key names and possible dates, would it be possible to give me a little assistance please?
Donata Adubato Bancone
b. July 1853 probably in San Martino d'Algri, Potenza or nearby villages e.g. Montemurro and Spinoso.
I do not know if her maiden name is Adubato or not but I think it probably is and that she married a Bancone possibly called Francesco Bancone b. 1858ish or having that as one of his names.
She had 2 (possibly 3) children:
Joseph (Giuseppe) Bancone
Anna Maria Bancone b June 1876
She emigrated with the above children to the USA in 1894 via Southampton but the story is that one of the children could not afford to make the crossing so stayed in Southampton. She doesn't appear to be travelling with a husband and none turns up in any of the US Censuses.
Francesco Bancone b 1858ish
Mentioned above - he declares on the UK Census of 1891 and 1901 and 1911 as being born in Naples, Italy but I don't know if this is the truth as ALL the DNA matched cousins derive from the villages above. He may have been a little creative with the truth.
Many thanks for your time and trouble ;D
Helen
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still on the waiting game folk.
MITCH 601 - have already started on your list.
MRSSELFPUB - written to the State Archives.
RLW254 - written to the Archives. Town Hall has only registrations after the Unification. Pre-Unification Records are mostly held by the State Archives. Church Records, hm, a good one this. I have tried in the past with Diocesan Archives. They are not very helpful at all. 1600's records - that's going to be very difficult and have no idea. There again there may be someone on Rootschat who knows as we have some very knowledgeable members.
Steve
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Thank you Steve :)
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Wow - thank you very much, Steve.
Kind regards
Helen
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Thanks Steve! Just to clarify I'm not looking for anything necessarily as dramatic as early 1600 records, just stuff right around the turn of the 19th century right now.
For example I know from marriage record in 1820 that someone's father died in 1795, before the civil registration. The marriage record indicates that proof of the father's death was included in the marriage supplemental documents (processetti) which would have come from church books. Would these processetti be held at town hall or in the diocesan archives?
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Hi Steve, ah ok, that's cool, I was just looking to see if there was a way I could find out if someone (my birth father) HAD been deported. I was told they had been , but have no way of knowing for sure . I did try the embassy IN EDINBURGH 1 but apart from give me his contact details they offered no other info. He is still living but has never acknowledged me hence the reason I am struggling a bit with my family tree. The comune della spezia have been amazing, and gave me what certificates etc they could find. However as I'm going back a wee bit now , info doesn't appear to be there,
Though I have seen a few more names on geneanet that I didn't have before.
As for the other children, no not UK that is to do with my birth father also, I'd never even thought about him having other children until someone asked me a few days ago. (By way just for your info ,he does know about me lol, he married mum the year AFTER I was born) was to find out if was any children from his 2nd marriage. Don't know if I'm allowed to put his and his wife's names on here if still living?
So as for my list of names and what I'm looking for are:
BIRTH ,MARRIAGE ,DEATH FOR :
ADRIANO CHIAPPINI AND CAROLINA OLIVETTI .(parents of silvio) Have no dates but Adriano was born 18/9/1825 in piano de collecchia. And would have died before 1898 (Was first married to A Rosa arguilla)
Same again for: LUIGI PEDRINI AND MARIA LUCCHESI (parents of erminia pedrini)
BIRTH AND DEATH OF ERMINIA PEDRINI, BORN AROUND 1876 IN DISTRICT OF BIGLIOLO. DIED BETWEEN 1898 AND 1909
PIETRO LOMBARDI AND BENIGIA ADORNI (BOTH DIED BEFORE 1909)(parents of aida)
LUCA PIETRO PEDRINI CA 1875
TERESA PEDRINI CA 1882
ANTONIO PEDRINI CA 1885
(All siblings of erminia)
Marriage in aulla for silvio egidio chiappini ( born 23 july 1874 in piano di collechia) and aida Lombardi BORN AROUND 1891 IN DISTRICT OF OLIVOLA (rec 46 , reg in fivizzano Dec 10th 1909)
Death for silvio egidio chiappini
BIRTH AND DEATH OF:
AIDA LOMBARDI
ALSO Have discovered a sibling of silvio called GUIDITTA CHIAPPINI CA 1861 COLLECHIA, MARRIED ALBINO RICCI 12 NOV 1888 CA 1874
It's a long list, sorry, and don't expect you to do it all, just whatever you can come up with would be a great help to me , no matter how small. I'll still be doing my bit to search as much as I can too, thanks Steve.
Apologies for not having many dates so if information can't be found on those ones , that's completely understandable. Thanks again.
is this of any use ?
https://gw.geneanet.org/karlmarx2000?n=pedrini&oc=&p=erminia
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Thanks Steve ... :D
Hi Nina,
count Giulio Silvio Grizi was the uncle of my father. He was born in Jesi in 1890 and died in Rome in 1990. I have visited just today his tomb in the Verano cemetery and the tomb of his wife Katleen in the Anglican cemetery in Rome. If you need same information you can write to me. Kind regards Francesco Grizi
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Hi Steve
I was wondering if you could get a death certificate for me please but I am not sure where the lady died - Tirano or Villa di Tirano. I am attaching part of a birth registration for Giovannina or Giovanna Borserio who was born in Villa di Tirano and died on or about 20 August 1980.
I am hoping the certificate shows who she was married too.
Thanks for your help.
R.
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Hi Steve62
I am trying to obtain the birth certificate of my Great Grandfather ANTONIO MAZZONE, who due to DNA I now know he was born in Senerchia I have put all my DNA matches together and our common ancestors are
NICOLA MAZZONE BORN 1772 IN SENERCHIA AND DIED 1876 sENERCHIA
his wife
GRAZIA TRIMARCO BORN 1776 DIED 1876 SENERCHIA.
These will be my Antonios Grandparents
On my Antonios wedding certificate in 1883 Cardiff UK he has his fathers name down as Rito! so i can only presume that it is an error and his name was Vito. Nicola did have a son called Vito, who also had a child called Antonio but this Antonio apparently died in Canada in 1909 and my Antonio died 1934 in Cheshire in 1934.
In the uk they also went by the names Mazzo, Mazzoni, Mazzone and Marco.
previously it was presumed he was born between 1856-59 however, i have found 2 hospital admission records one dob stated as 22 May 1856 and the other 22 May 1857
I have been searching now for over 20 years and can not find any entry records to the uk and have trawled the family search records but cant find any thing in there either.
So im hoping you may be able to come up with some thing for me please.
Thank you in advance
Jacky
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Hi Steve62
I am trying to obtain the birth certificate of my Great Grandfather ANTONIO MAZZONE, who due to DNA I now know he was born in Senerchia I have put all my DNA matches together and our common ancestors are
NICOLA MAZZONE BORN 1772 IN SENERCHIA AND DIED 1876 sENERCHIA
his wife
GRAZIA TRIMARCO BORN 1776 DIED 1876 SENERCHIA.
These will be my Antonios Grandparents
On my Antonios wedding certificate in 1883 Cardiff UK he has his fathers name down as Rito! so i can only presume that it is an error and his name was Vito. Nicola did have a son called Vito, who also had a child called Antonio but this Antonio apparently died in Canada in 1909 and my Antonio died 1934 in Cheshire in 1934.
In the uk they also went by the names Mazzo, Mazzoni, Mazzone and Marco.
previously it was presumed he was born between 1856-59 however, i have found 2 hospital admission records one dob stated as 22 May 1856 and the other 22 May 1857
I have been searching now for over 20 years and can not find any entry records to the uk and have trawled the family search records but cant find any thing in there either.
So im hoping you may be able to come up with some thing for me please.
Thank you in advance
Jacky
I wasn't able to find Antonio for you but I can tell you that there was no Nicola Mazzone or Grazia Trimarco that died in Senerchia in 1876.
However, the only Vito Mazzone I was able to find died in Senerchia on 28 Mar 1880 at age 82, son of Nicola and Grazia Trimarco, widower of Teresa Marco.
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Wow thank you the Vito you found would fit right given his wife's name was Marco this would fit with my Antonio useing the name Marco for a few years whilst living in Wales UK. There is a connection I can make but as of yet not sure what the connection is but Nicola Mazzone and Theresa Trimarco had another child Nicola Mazzone Born 1796 ish he Married Constanza Cleffi,
one of there children Gaetano Mazzone B 1820 Married Felicia Vestuto Born 1823...There Son, Carmine Mazzone Born 1867 married Antonia Cozzi Born 1868...This couple though Living in Liverpool in 1901 they were actually staying with my Antonio in Wrexham North Wales and had one of there children whilst staying with them, and given they are all from the same family line! Oh eck i just don't know where to go next really given you cant find him its like he doesn't exist. I guess all i can do is to ask if you have any advise as to what or where to go next?
Thank you though for trying for me and for the info you have found.
Jacky
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There should be plenty more to find. One problem I'm seeing immediately though is that there is a gap in record availability between 1848 and 1861 in the LDS databases. I don't know if 1849-1860 haven't been digitized yet or have been destroyed or something along these lines, but this is where you'll find the birth of your Antonio. Unless this can be found somewhere other than my usual sources online, you'll have to contact the local registers. Steve here seems to be very helpful in this regard.
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Folks,
Nobody heard from me yet I know.
I am waiting and have today rewritten to the various places for what I asked for.
No one has been forgotten.
Steve
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rlw254 Thank you ever so much for looking for me you don't know how much it means!
Steve62 not sure if im included in your response but if any thing at all can be found i will be over the moon and definitely no rush as iv been trying to find hm for so long, if it did include my request then again thank yo so much for trying to help
Jacky
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rlw254
Forget you in my list? No worries there - you are in list
Steve
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Thank you Steve
Jacky
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Here's a little bit to keep you going, not sure what all will be relevant for you. There's still a bit more than this, I can try to put some more when I have time.
Born 1861:
Rosantonia Mazzone to Antonio Mazzone age 40 [son of Sabato] & Camilla Colangelo
Costanzo Mazzone to Gaetano Mazzone age 40 [son of Nicola] & Felicia Vestuto
Arcangelo Mazzone to Michele Mazzone age 33 [son of Giuseppe] & Caterina Mazzone age 30
Born 1864:
Serafina Mazzone to Nicola Mazzone age 30 & Rosantonia Gasparro
Born 1865:
Teresa Mazzone to Giuseppe Mazzone & Mariantonia Sbazzo
Francesco Mazzone to Michele Mazzone age 31 & Caterina Mazzone age 30
Federico Mazzone to Arcangelo Mazzone & Maria Luigia Cozzi
Raffaele Mazzone to Sabato Mazzone age 50 & Giovanna Meola
Married 1863:
Alfonso Cozzi [son of Tommaso Cozzi & Antonia Mazzone] & Filomena Mazzone age 23 [daughter of Bartolomeneo Mazzone & Carmela Cozzi]
Married 1864:
Nicola Moretto & Serafina Mazzone [daughter of Vito Mazzone & Teresa di Marco]
Paolo Cozzi & Camilla Mazzone [daughter of Bartolomeneo Mazzone & Carmina Cozzi]
I'll try to take a little of the burden off Steve in this thread where I can ;D
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RLW254 oh thank you ill add all this info to what I already have your very kind thank you again. Not sure if it will help but I do have a photo of My Antonio and I also have his marriage certificate too if ud like to see any of them let me know and ill post them or inbox them to you.
Kindest wishes
Jacky
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Steve
Sorry to be a pain but would it be possible to get this marriage please - Angelina Della Vedova married Francesco ? (I think it is Crappa or similiar) on 11 Oct 1922 Tirano. I am attaching Angelina's birth record to help identify the marriage.
Thanks for your help.
R
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Mixedupmob,
You are not a pain :) Leave it with me
Steve
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Hi Steve,
I am looking for information about my wife’s grandmother, Rosa Fusco. What I know is:
born around 1894
married Giovanni Ciufo in 1915
they lived in Tufo, Minturno and I believe she would have been born there.
Information about her birth/parents would be great.
Thanks in advance,
Alan
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Hi Alan,
I can get hold of the BC for FUSCO, Rosa and should have her parents mentioned. I can possibily get hold of the MC to CIUFO, Giovanni, but there is a but .........
You mention "Tufo, Minturno". Tufo is in the Province of Avellino, Region of Campania. Minturno is in the Province of Latina, Region of Lazio. Campania is just below Lazio and attached.
Do you have a document or something relating? If it is Tufo then it should be very easy as there are only 854 inhabitants and am sure the Town Hall is'nt that busy. Let me know more and I will e-mail for the info, but after 1st. January as they will closed.
Have a Wonderful Christmas and New Year
Steve
:) :) :)
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:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
TO ALL THE MEMBERS AWAITING REPLIES FROM
Having a New Years Resolution for 2019. Going to bombard the Town Halls/Archives who have never replied. Going to go through this posting and hopefully get the replies you are all waiting for.
Wishing you all A Very Happy Christmas and a Prosperous New Year.
Steve
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for the quick reply–this is definitely Tufo in Latina. It is just to the east of Minturno.
Buon Natale
Alan
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Hi Steve,
Not sure if you are accepting any new requests, you were recommended by another user to me.
I have some Italian ancestry in Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England in the early 1800s. In particular, there is a William LOMBARDINI who pops up in the 1841 Census as living in Bath Buildings, Huddersfield. He is in the census until his death in Oct 1869. There is an approximate birth year of 1801-1804 and he is listed as being born in Italy in all Censuses.
On May 4 1843, he marries a Fanny Maria PIERCY in Huddersfield. At this time he is living in Bath Buildings and is a 'carver and gilder'. His father is down as deceased, and I make his name out to be Bermarita or Bermarito LOMBARDINI.
I would love to trace down his father, mother and place of birth in Italy. I am no good with Italian resources and have no idea where to start outside of England!
If you could help, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thankyou,
EB.
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Hi EB,
Yes I am still open for business, but as you can see I have not been very fruitful recently with enquiries. Even bombarding Archives/Town Halls.
To obtain details of William Lombardini (Guglielmo Lombardini) Birth certificate which would show his parents and date of Birth/profession I would need to know at least a place of Birth or maybe somewhere he lived, which might indicate his place of Birth.
I am going to have a look at a site that might let me search without a "place". Not too sure.
His fathers' name I think will be "Benmerito" by the way.
If you have anything that comes to light or mind please let me know.
Get back t o you shortly.
Steve
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Hi EB,
Have tried on that site that covers a lot of Italian Archives with his full name in Italian and just his surname. Nothing comes up. Tried Wikitrees in case there was something there and nothing. There is a possibility that his Birth record is in Church registers and thats a minefield.
Just for curiosity; there are 815 Lombardy families in Italy and the main ones are 212 in Lombardy(Lombardia), 210 in Emilia Romagna and 189 in Tuscany(Toscana). Each region abuts on one and another. That indicates where he may have been born (Northern Italy), but the town?
Unfortunately there is very little online for Italy in the way of records and it means relying on Archives/Town Halls (after 1865) and those church records. They like to have dd/mm/year or at least the year and place of birth of course.
Sorry I cannot be more helpful, but any snippet you find may be helpful.
Steve
PS. Just had a thought, will check and get back to you.
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Hi EB,
Just had a look on Anc. Italy/FindMyPast/F.Search. Nothing.
Steve
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Hi EB,
Just had a look on Anc. Italy/FindMyPast/F.Search. Nothing.
Steve
Thanks for your help, Steve.
I'll keep looking for some more clues!
EB.
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Hi EB,
Sorry not much help, but you know where I am if you find something.
Steve
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Hi Steve, just a long shot but i’m looking for a Joseph Francelli, father of Mario Francelli who was born in October 1883, in Italy 🙄. Mario was an actor in the UK, as was his son Frank (registered as Frank Mario Gustavo Francelli in Holborn, Middlesex, in March quarter 1912, later to be known as Frank Shelley). Mario’s first marriage in Monmouthshire (Wales) - where he was a collier - in 1908 lists his father as Joseph, a mason, but i’ve not been able to find either in the 1911 census to glean anything more.
Not looking for anything recent, just hoping to find Joseph’s wife / Mario’s mother, and Mario’s birth.
Many thanks for reading,
Deirdre
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Hi Diedre,
First I would need a place of Birth. Anc. (not subscribed) Suppose that is your tree "Joseph b. 1863." There is another tree with Frank b. 1902 Italy, but place of Birth is blank as I am not subscribed. That might indicate a place we are looking for.
Looked on several sites and found nothing. Seem to have problems finding the origines of the surname as well as that could indicate a place.
Now not saying good news, but might - There is a Francesco Francelli born in Genoa in 1883. A long shot, but maybe a twin? or Mario had a nother name or even changed his name. So sent e-mail to Genoa and requested the BC of Francesco and also if there is a Mario of the same year and mentioned father Giuseppe (Joseph).
Not sure if you meant in the 1911 there was nothing new or you did'nt find them in the 1911.
In the meantime if you find info, no matter how irrelevant you think, let me know.
Always here to help
Steve
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Thanks Steve, that is literally just a guess as i was using 1863 +/- 10 years in my searches.
Not found mario or joseph in 1911 at all 🙄 (no idea if Joseph was ever in the uk). Have mario in later life with 2nd wife.
Thanks very much for looking for me; not my tree but trying to help someone i contacted about descendants from Mario’s first marriage 😀
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Hi I'm looking to contact Steve62. I have a relative who was born in Italy. In a town called Parma back in 1858 and on. It was country side back in those days, farm land etc. Not the City of Parma that they have now. His name was Marco Mundi and he had a sister, may be more I don't know. He was a shepherd who looked after some farmers sheep. He had a run in with a village priest, he thought he had killed him, so he ran away. It seems the village priest was not killed. He did stow away on the ship sailing for Canada. The Canadian part I have the information of his life.
lsbura
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat
I will send steve62 a message for you. Once you have 2 posts you can use the personal message system yourself to send private messages.
Hopefully steve62 will be along shortly. ;)
Good Luck
Sandra ;)
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Hi Isbura,
No problem will see what I can find out from the Archives and a couple of sites that might have some info.
Steve
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat
I will send steve62 a message for you. Once you have 2 posts you can use the personal message system yourself to send private messages.
Hopefully steve62 will be along shortly. ;)
Mia cara Sandra, ;)
Thank you for putting me in touch with Isbura. Just pass people along I enjoy it, but from the postings I am not having much joy at the moment.
Ciao
Steve
8) 8)
Good Luck
Sandra ;)
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Isbura,
For once got a speedy reply, but its not good news.
The State Archives have said they can only check if they have 00/00/000 or at least a precise year. Plus they would need to know the precise town where the subject was born.
In our case they say it would need a manuel search of the registers they hold for all the towns in the Province of Parma. There are 45 towns in the province. They do not do this and have suggested that someone comes to the Archives and search the registers personally. If I was near to I would gladly spend the day there, but I am in over 900 kms away in the South of Italy.
Sorry I have not be able help you, but if you come across at least a town let me know.
Steve
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All I have is his birth date 16 Feb 1858. Parma, Italy. When Marco came to Canada he some how ended up in Niagara Falls, Ont. Canada. He did not speak english. He married an British Home Child in 1890, that was sent to Canada to work as a maid etc.. She had some schooling, could read and write. She changed his name to Mundier because she didn't want to be considered a Italian. He had many different spelling during the years here in Canada. His grandchildren didn't under stand him and his Children learned very little about Italian. He logged, work for Niagara falls in some form. Help build a gondola across the Falls from Niagara Falls, NY, USA to Niagara Falls, Ont. Canada. He all so worked on the bridge across for cars, Niagara Falls, NY to Niagara Falls, Ont. He was a very short man and his children all grew taller. He died in Toronto, Ont. Canada on July 13, 1953.
My Mother-in-law only knew that he was born in a village (Parma) and was a shepherd.
Thanks so much
Linda
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Hi Linda,
Great - will e-mail the Archives with this date and "Parma", which seems to be where he was born. I presume obviously in 1858 Parma was a village and has evolved over time.
Lets hope for some good news!
Steve
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It's me again, Steve.
The village priest is said to have raped Marco's sister. That's why he had a fight with the priest. He might of knocked the priest down and maybe the priest hit his head. Marco thought he had killed the priest and he ran. We think he ran over the mountains and stowed away on the first ship he came across. Which landed in Canada. Don't know how he made it to Niagara Falls with no money, didn't speak the lang. He never could sign his name, used an X on all legal papers. He and Emma Jennings had 10-12 children.
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Diedre,
Just got a reply from Genoa (Genova).
They have searched for FRANCELLI, Mario from 1875 to 1885 and there is no registration.
So he must have been born somewhere else, but where? Any clues let me know.
Sorry not much help.
Steve
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Hi Steve, thanks for trying; maybe the 1921 census will yield more clues when it’s published. I am likely to have a long list to check on when it is 😀
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Hi Steve
Me again. I was wondering if it is possible to get a death registration from Tirano for Giovanni Gandini. He died on or about 26 April 1919. Thanks.
R.
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mixedupmob,
Yes, no problem. Have sent e-mail to Tirano this morning.
Steve
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mixedupmob,
Miracle!!
Just received this morning after a month and half the Death certificate of Giovanni Gandini. Has place and date of Death, age at Death and his parents names.
The columns are numbered and there is a sheet with the numbers and translation in 8 languages, so I have not translated.
Send me a PM with your e-mail and I will send them to you. I will erase your e-mail address afterwards.
Steve
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TO ALL THOSE AWAITING REPLIES.
Please be patient and reminders have been sent.
Steve
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Thanks Steve, sending you a PM
R.
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Hi steve, thank you.
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Hello,
Looking to find information on ancestors from Stazzema particulary by the surname Gherardi.
My great great granda was called Fabio Gherardi, his wife Marietta lucchesi.
Fabios parents were Onorato Gherardi and Clorinda Buassi?
Any info would be fantastic
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Hi,
Welcome to Rootschat.
To start I would need some dates and presume Stazzema in the province of Lucca (Tuscany) is the actual town we are looking at as to B/M/D. If you have any UK documents they will indicate at least a year.
Just let me know what you know and what you have on the family.
Steve
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Hi steve62
Thanks for the reply,
The only dates I have are:
Fabio Gherardi (my great great grandfather)
Born: 23rd October 1886 in Stazzema
Father: Onorato Gherardi Mother: Clorinda Gherardi nee Buassi?
Marietta Gherardi nee Lucchesi (my great great grandmother)
Born:16th October 1887 in Cardoso
Father Emilio Lucchesi Mother: Massima Lucchesi nee Vanni
Fabio and Marietta moved to Scotland around 1909, then to Northern Ireland and I have a bit of information through the records here on their children, But I would like to find out more about their parents Onorato etc, particularly down the Gherardi family as we have very little information them, pretty much just their names!
thanks for all the help!
Matthew
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I can obtain the Birth certificates, but it will only state the parents names and no d.o.b. of parents.
The Birth certificates before the Unification of Italy in the 1860's are more detailed and give the parents age and occupations and address where the child was born , plus witness'.
Let me know if you want the B.C's. I will try to get the marriage certificate of the parents with a guess range 1885-1887. It might show there d.o.b. , but not their parents.
Steve
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Steve,
That's amazing!
Honestly anything at all will really make me so so happy, and it would be great for my grandfather to see them!
You are a star
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Matthew,
Have e-mailed the "Comune di Stazzema" and kindly requested:-
BC - Fabio Gherardi and Marietta Lucchesi
MC - Onorato Gherardi & Clorinda (Buassi?) 1885 circa
MC - Emilio Lucchesi & Massima Vanni 1886 circa
Cardoso comes under the town of Stazzema, so hopefully they will have the info.
It can take time sometimes to get answers and sometimes they just dont bother. I will diary this and chase them up now again for you and especially for your g.father.
Steve
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Absolutely amazing Steve,
Bless you so much!!
I pray they reply, he as well as the rest of us have always wanted to find out more about them, and while grandfather is still here it's important!!
Thank you again!
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Hi Steve, Matthew
I found the birth for Fabio Gherardi on familysearch and I can't attach it, the file is to large. The records for Stazzema have been digitized and are searchable on familysearch.
Jim
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Really Jim,
I have searched on family search and can't find anything regarding fabio!!
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Hi Matthew
Yes the records for Stazzema are there. I am trying to attach it again. Let me know if it goes through.
Jim
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Amazing!
Waow
Can I ask what you put into the search section on family search?
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Matthew
To find the records go under catalog and type in Stazzema and when press enter the civil registration for Stazzema will pop up and then go for 1866-1929. Cardoso is not there for the years you are looking for and not sure what they are listed under some research might need to be done to find them.
Jim
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Hi Matthew
I found the marriage for Fabio's parents, they were married October 6, 1877 certificate # 36.
Let me know if you were able to find the records
Jim
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Ahhhh I'm so amazed and so so thankful!!
You guys are amazing, I finally found the birth record of fabio.
I shall have a look for the marriage one now, I can't wait to show my granda!!
Can't thank you guys enough
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JimGat/ Matthew,
Great find!!
I signed into FS and followed your instructions and a blank page came up. Waited awhile and still nothing. (??).
Matthew if you want the BC translating let me know and any other documents you or JimGat find.
The document JimGat found is the one I mentioned as a pre-Unification. I have found most "Comune" today do not send the original document, but merely write out a "modern day certificate" with skant info.
Cordoso is a district of Stazzema and the records are held in Stazzema. Wait to see what they turn on Mariette Lucchesi.
Steve
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Steve,
You're in the right area, took me a while to find it. Once you click on catalogs, type in stazzema and click on the digital copies link there should be a list down the page of the different records they have with little camera icons to view the records.
If you could translate the BC that would be amazing, can you read it from the picture Jim posted? Honestly though I feel like I have done very little so could trug through it with Google translate.
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Matthew,
Thanks for the advice. Will look myself now and hopefully pull it all up.
What mess about with Google! Not always correct anyway. Its my pleasure to translate it for you and any other documents that come up. In fact if I find the other documents by FS or Comune I'll translate them before sending them you.
Be sometime tomorrow as I am out tonight.
Steve
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I wonder if this tree owner may be able to assist ??
same village - so may know some info
https://gw.geneanet.org/jclaude87?n=gherardi&oc=&p=elia+giovanni
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Matthew,
Send me "PM" with your e-mail.
Can't attach translation here. Will not let me.
Steve
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Matthew/JimGat
Have zoomed into the the copy BC from here and the translation is on its way to you.
FS - followed instructions; Catalogs - typed in Stazzema and then there was "all" "online". Clicked "All" and put in slide numer. Came up "No Records". Must be doing something wrong. If you can download the MC and send it to me for translation.
Steve
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Hi Matthew,
Translation of the BC has gone by e-mail
Translation of MC has gone by e-mail
Thanks for the PM with the links on FS.
Waiting for the town hall on the other certificates.
Steve
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I wonder if this tree owner may be able to assist ??
same village - so may know some info
https://gw.geneanet.org/jclaude87?n=gherardi&oc=&p=elia+giovanni
garstonite,
Thanks for that link and your input - appreciated.
Steve
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Hi Steve
For some time, I have been trying to procure either birth or marriage records to identify the parents of Maria Teresa Di Giovanni, who was born on 16 December 1868 in Salerno (Commune of Capaccio), and her brother, Mauro Di Giovanni, who was born in 1873 in Salerno (Commune of Capaccio). The alternative spelling of their surname is De Giovanni on some documents.
Maria Teresa Di Giovanni married Giuseppe Iannelli (presumably in Salerno, Commune of Capaccio). Mauro Di Giovanni wed Angela Maria Giardino (presumably in Salerno, Commune of Capaccio).
I would be extremely grateful for any assistance you can provide.
Many thanks in advance.
Rodeo
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can only find 2 Di Giovanni births around that period in Salerno - neither are yours - but are they possible siblings - could this Teresa Maria have died and Maria Teresa named after her ??
maybe make a note of the parents just in case
Name Teresa Maria Carmela Di Giovanni
Event Type Birth
Event Date 13 Mar 1861
Event Place Salerno, Salerno, Italy
Gender Female
Father's Name Comincio Di Giovanni
Mother's Name Bettina Coppola
...............................................
Name Federico Di Giovanni
Event Type Birth
Event Date 23 May 1863
Event Place Salerno, Salerno, Italy
Gender Male
Father's Name Comincio Di Giovanni
Mother's Name Elisabetta Coppola
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Hi Rodeo,
Just sent an e-mail to the Comune di Capaccio requesting the BC. If they send me a copy of the original it will state parents and their details, plus there could be an annotation as to marriage.
Steve
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Hi Garstonite
Thank you so much for your reply. I will most definitely make note of the names of the parents. The children of Mauro and Angelina (Angela Maria) Di Giovanni in order of birth were Maria, Teresa, Antonio and Carmela. Thus, according to the Italian naming pattern (if it was indeed adhered to), Mauro's parents would be Antonio Di Giovanni and Maria (surname). However, Cominicio could well be a sibling of Maria Teresa and Mauro Di Giovanni's father, as you say.
All the best,
Rodeo
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Hi Steve
I can't thank you enough for so promptly sending an email to the Comune di Capaccio requesting a BC. It's extremely kind of you and very much appreciated whatever the result. Hopefully, the question of the parentage of Mauro and Maria Teresa Di Giovanni will finally be resolved.
All the very best,
Rodeo
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Hi Rodeo
I found both birth records on http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it . Maria Teresa Digiovanni born 1866 and Mauro born 1873. The parents were Carminantonio DiGiovanni & Maria Russo. Not sure if you have used that site, Italian archives are putting records online.
Jim
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JimGat,
This is second time you have found some info. Have a question again for you.
Last time you found some info on FS and unfortunately following instructions I still did'nt get it, but I was sent the copies of certificates by the poster.
I know more records are going on site and checked the antenati.san.beniculturi one and came up with zilch. After your posting I tried again; name, date etc = nothing. Tried with just a surname = nothing. Tried with and without place name. Strange in both cases you found info and I could'nt. Perhaps there is a gremlin in my computer ;D
Question: As you seem to be a bit more technically minded than me - how did you find the info?
Plus I can trace the births of the parents and if their is an annotation as to marriage.
Thanks,
Steve
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Hi Jim
Thank you very much for that information. However, like Steve, I get nessun risultato on that site. What search information did you enter? What are the full dates of birth cited for Mauro and Maria Teresa Di Giovanni?
Many thanks again.
Cheers,
Rodeo
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Hi Steve & Rodeo
To search the http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it site, you need to go to the Sfoglia I Registri, then you choose the province you want to search, then locate the town you want. In this case, you find Salerno then Cappaccio. Hope this helps.
Jim
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Hi Steve
To search FamilySearch, after signing in at the top you'll family tree, search, memories,etc., Choose catalog under the search, the next page opens where it says place you type in the province or the town. Choose civil registry then the year you are looking for. Not all places are viewable online or only some years are, they are all different. If not viewable, you'll need to go to a family history center to search them.
Hope this helps
Jim
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for the tips. I can see where I went wrong on the "Antenati" and "FS".
Rodeo managed to get the BC on Antenati and is sending to me for translation. Should be able to trace parents from them and their date and place of Birth. So can take it from their.
Appreciate your imput.
Steve
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Jim,
Rodeo sent me the BC's for translation and I went on Antenati and found them, but I have a quandry.
You mentioned that the parents were DI GIOVANNI, Carminantonio and RUSSO, Maria.
Rodeo mentioned Maria Teresa was born 16/12/1868 and your find was 1866. The 1866 BC gives parents as DI GIOVANNI, Giovanni and RUSSO, Maria. I cannot find a BC for1868 on Antenati and presume you are correct.
The quandry is:-
The BC for Mauro is extremely feint, unless you can alter that, but I seem to read his parents to be DI GIOVANNI, Carminantonio and unreadable, but not RUSSO, Maria.
I have sent the translated BC for Maria Teresa to Rodeo and mentioned the quandry.
I am still waiting for the Comune to send the BC's - if they reply, but wondering what you think.
Steve
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Hi Steve
Maria Teresa's BC is on image 68 and line 6 says comparso Carminantonio Di Giovanni figlio di Pantaleone.
Mauro's BC starts on lower page of image 71 and continues on image 72. The third line on image 72 says moglie Maria Russo.
In 1870 I found another sibling Angelo DiGiovanni on image 70-71. Not sure if Rodeo found that one.
Jim
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Hi Steve and JimGat
Thank you so much for your help in translating the birth certificates of Mauro and Maria Teresa Di Giovanni.
JimGat, were you able to decipher Mauro's date of birth? No, I didn't find Angelo Di Giovanni's birth certificate but will have a look at it on Antenati.
Many thanks again to you both. Your help is very much appreciated.
Cheers,
Rodeo
-
Rodeo
It looks like registered December 11, 1873, born December 10th.
-
Great. Many thanks for that, Jim. So, it seems all three children were born in December.
Cheers,
Rodeo
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Hi Jim,
Managed to get up the BC again on Antenati for Mauro. Also enlarged it and made it darker so it was easier to read.
Your dates are correct. Tomorrow will translate and send to Rodeo.
I will look up the third child you mentioned and translate that for Rodeo.
Also I would like to thank you for your input and your time and especially your input on how to access records on FS and Antenati in a different way. That is very useful to me.
Steve
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mcoan1991
Hi Matthew,
Just got the BC from the Comune and its the standard modern form with skant info. Not sending it as you have the translated original. They state that there is no registration for birth Marietta Lucchesi in Cardoso and that she must have been born in another town.
If there is anything else you need let me know or drop me an e-mail.
Steve
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Hi Steve
Glad I could be of some help.
Jim
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Mccoan 1991
Matthew
I think I found you gg grandmother Marrieta Lucchesi. I checked online and found out that Cardoso is part of Gallicano. I checked on familysearch and they have Gallicano records that can be searched online. In 1887 I didn't find a Marrieta Lucchesi, but found a Filomena Lucchesi registered Oct 18, born Oct 15,1887 to Emilio & Massina Lucchesi(Vanni). I checked indexes and couldn't find Marrieta , so maybe Filomena is her.
Jim
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Hi Steve
I need your help. My family came from Acquafondata & Viticuso in Frosinone Province. During my search, I found that many of the records were destroyed during WW2. Familysearch has copies of reconstructed births up to 1899. I was wondering if you could find out for me if they have marriages & deaths after 1864. I am looking for a marriage of my gg-grandfather Antonio Fuoco(born 1843) & Carmela Simeone(born 1840) abt 1868-1870. The first child I have found was Maria Fuoco born May 1870.
Thanks
Jim
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Hi Jim,
No probs. Leave it with me.
Out tomorrow all day. Get onto it on Thursday.
Btw
Rodeo has all birth & marriage certs and translations. Thanks your input.
Steve
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Hi Jim, iv come across a marriage certificate from Avellino Italy from 1814 there is only one name I can read (lower right hand page) which is Nicola Mazzone so im wondering if you could transcribe it for me please? i'm not sure if i can post it on here or email it via private mail, failing that this is the link address
youhttp://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=246416132
Thank you in advance Jacky
Researching Antonio Mazzone B...Senerchia 22 June 1856/57
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Hi Jacky
I checked the page you posted and don't see Nicola Mazzone name anywhere are you sure you posted the right page? I can translate some Italian just enough to get into trouble but will try to help if I can.
Jim
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Hi Jim iv just about managed to translate what bits i needed now thank you for your reply ( it isnt my family sadly) and so the journey continues haha!
Regards
Jacky
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Hi Steve
Just wondering if you contacted Acquafondata & Viticuso for the request I wrote to you about on June 19th. Hope all is well.
Jim
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Hi Jim,
So far after a chase up still not heard.
Also its the summer season here and I am "off limits" until middle of September.
Sorry
Steve
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Steve
Thanks
Jim
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Hi Jim,
Just got a reply and have attached the original, which is self-explanetary.
It is saying that there is no record of the marriage in either of the towns.
Steve
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Hi Jim,
Blame it on the sun ;D
Correction; the Archives do not have a record of the marriage
I would have thought all records would have been eventually lodged from the Comune to the Archives.
So wondering if they got married somewhere else.
Steve
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Hi Steve
I am wondering if you can try to get a death record for my great uncle Antonio Salzillo, just found out he died in Rome, Nov 21, 1956. He was born Jan 1,1892, do not know much about him and would appreciate anything on him.
Thanks
Jim
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Hi Jim,
As its Summer Holiday time here in Italy now and most official offices are running with low staff I thought I'd try a phone call instead of an e-mail. I spoke to a person at the main "Municpio Roma Capitale" in the "Anagrafe" (Civil Registrations). You would need to know in which of the 15 Municipi in Rome the Death was registered and contact them. Thats the needle in a haystack!!
However the DC would only mention the date of birth and date of death. You would'nt find any other info. There is also a habit now when requesting older certificates that they do not send you a copy of the original register which has greater detail, but a simple form. Es. date of birth or death and place. Date of marriage and who the parties were and where married. That is annoying when you are trying to find ancestors. Happened to me on several occassions and when I asked for a copy of the original register - no answer. Oh I did offer to pay their reasonable expenses as well.
Steve
-
Steve
Thank you
Jim
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Was wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of the local community website or contact person for a place called varano Marachesi , Medesano in Italy , I want to see if there are any Bonzani surnamed contacts in this area that can help me research my great great grandfather
Ryan
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Hi
Seem to remember sometime ago this name
Can we re-start again. Give me details again. Italian holidays until 20th. August, so will search after.
Steve
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Hi Steve
Aristodemo bonzani
You will remember our conversation from
Before you successfully found his birth cert and I’m
Very grateful
I want to see if there are any contacts to take this search further especially if we can find bonzani in the areas that may have knowledge of aristodemo or his siblings etc
Ryan
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Hi Steve
I was wondering if it is possible to get the following certificates from Tirano -
Death certificate for Luigi Antonio Cabassi who died on or about 24 May 1966
and
Marriage certificate for Rosa Maddalena Nazzari and Luigi Antonio Cabassi who married on or about 15 April or 15 September 1951 (copy of part of Rosa's birth registration attached to help with marriage date).
I am trying to establish if these two Luigi Antonio Cabassi's are the same person or not.
Thank you for your assistance, again.
R.
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Mixedupmob,
Will do. His DC should give his DOB and that can be checked against the MC to see if the same.
BTW. its the "15/09/1951" I am sure, but will give both dates just in case.
Steve
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Mixedupmob,
Got a reply. They require a copy of my Identity Card and the reason for wanting these certificates. Did tell them, but evidently not sufficient. Not sending my ID as it has my Fiscal Code. With that they can see all my financial info. Bank, property, any loans or mortgages, ownership of cars, boats etc, etc.
Thats private.
Sorry this time cannot help.
Steve
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Dear Steve62
Grateful for your expert local help, please?
I have a wedding by a German national, Uwe Klaus Dietrich Johnson 1934-1984 in Rome, Italy on February 27th 1962 to Elisabeth Schmidt. She had recently escaped from East Germany. I think from memory there are a lots of areas within Rome but all I know is that Johnson had a scholarship with Villa Massimo, in Rome. I understand this is a German Cultural College at Marjo di Villa Massimo, 00161, Roma RM Italy. He may have lived nearby.
I am searching for extra detail on the wedding, perhaps who was present etc.. I have no birth detail on Elisabeth except she was born in Schwerin. Hoping an age, would be listed on the official details.
I wondered if you could help or at least point me in the right direction. The above is all I know, except that Eliabeth Johnson divorced her husband in 1978, I think in Germany.
I would welcome any comments.
Thank you
Mike
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Hi Mike,
A little needle in a haystack.
There are 15 Comune (Town Halls) in Rome. In which one were they married?
The MC would give their DOB, but not who was present. You would need a Church Record for that.
It is possible, maybe, that the German Cultural College in "Largo di Villa Massimo" have some details about them in their records.
Sorry much help to you.
Steve
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Steve62
Thank you for your kind reply. I have tried the Villa Massimo. They confirmed he was resident with them for 1962 but they have no further records on his marriage. It was not conducted within the Villa Massimo however. I have emailed the Uwe Johnson Research Centre in Germany but I don't expect to get a reply!
If he got married close to the Villa Massimo, which seems likely would that narrow the search?
regards
Mike
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Hi Steve
Thank you for trying but I fully understand the need to keep private things private.
Maybe those certificates fall into the Italian privacy rules time-frame in which they only supply to family. In Australia most states require full ID from the person applying for births less than 100 years ago; marriages 60 years ago and deaths 30 years ago.
R.
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Mike,
Sorry just read your message.
Yes I will have a look to see in which "Municipio" we find Largo Villa Massimo.
Steve
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Steve62
I would be grateful. Thank you
Mike
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Steve
Do you think you can try for another Tirano marriage registration for me please - see how you go.
Marriage is between Maria Ester Divitini and Pietro Gandini, date looks to be 3 June 1944 (see attached for confirmation).
I would like to know Pietro's parents if possible as one of Maria's older sisters looks like she also married a Pietro Gandini and I am wondering if it is the same person.
Thanks for your help.
R.
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mixedupmob,
Oooh! Got a reply this morning. "Please refer to our previous e-mail". Could be privacy laws, although this is the first time I have come across a case like this. Never had problems in the past. Only once was I asked to pay for certificates. Seems every "Comune" has their own rules.
Steve🤔
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Ok Steve, thank you for trying - maybe they are sick of getting requests for certificates.
R.
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I've never used Rootschat before, it was recommended from another that I seek help here. Looking to find any information on:
Luigi Scattola pos DOB 9, Mar 1883 (according to SS death record obtained on Archives), DOD, 1954-1956, POB Austria (Venice or Trieste), Mother is Maria Paoletich, Father Alojz Scattola (these names are listed on the U.S., SS applications and claims index).
Palma Scattola nee Hrelyanovich, no vital information available
Little background, Luigi, an Italian Citizen living and working in (Fiume) Yugoslavia and spouse left in 1945 for political reasons and returned to Italy. Between May 10, 1945-Sept, 1954 they came to America on the immigration quote. After 16 months they returned to Parma, Italy where they both died sometime between 1954-1956. These are my great grandparents. Any help provided is appreciated I am at my wits-end trying to find any information on them. I know they are buried somewhere in Italy. I've visited their resting place but its not recorded on photo it has to be either, Parma or Genoa.
Greatful for any help or guidance.
-
Hi
The Birth in Italy in 1883 should be available online either on antenati or on familysearch.
On familysearch maybe you won't find it with the search form but if you search in the catalog.
For Trieste there are church books of several churches (only marriages online) and also of the Austrian Army.
You say POB Austria (Venice or Trieste), but I found the surname Scattola in Tezze sul Brenta, Vicenza, Veneto, Italia, could this also be a possibility?
Regards
Svenja
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Hi Svenja,
You have given me a lot of info and will try and see what I can find out here in Italy and through other ways on the internet. I would point out given the COVID virus Italy is in partial "lockdown". The Region we are looking at is in the "Red Zone" and therefore will be very difficult to get a reply. But I will try.
Leave it with me and I will get back to you .
Regards
Steve
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Hi,
Scattola in Tezze sul Brenta, Vicenza, Vento, Italia could actually be who I'm searching for. My mother (now deceased) wrote down some basic information that he was born in Venice but I couldn't find proof. As with Rootschat, Antenati and Familysearch, I fail miserably when it comes to searching documents. I'm not even sure I am responding to your post correctly. I've even tried looking in all the possible resting places in Italy that I can think where they might be to help give me some information. I will try to look further on my own, but anymore help you can give is very much appreciated.
Kindest Regards,
Amy
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Hi Amy,
Sorry not back to you earlier. Have been busy translating some legal documents for a lawyer here.
A question; you say you visited their resting place which is either Parma or Genova. I will try and look up in Parma and Genova.
See what else I can turn up using the internet. Unfortunately due to the virus it is very hard to get through to local governemnt offices at the moment.
Don't dispair - I've been flying about for years on some of my ancestors. Vanished into thin air probally :)
Regards
Steve
PS. If anything comes to mind no matter how trivial let me know.
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Hi Amy,
A bit of good news to start. You said Luigi Scattola born 09/03/1883 and he died between 1954-1956.
Servizio Cimiteriali del Comune di Parma - Cemetery Service Town of Parma
Luigi SCATTOLA
born: 09/03/1883
died : 01/06/1964
Age : 81
The section numer and grave number are not shown.
Steve
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Hi Amy,
Just found from FindMyPast that a Luigi Scattola went to the USA in 1923. I am not subscribed so cannot get the info from "US Passenger & Crew Lists". I went on Ellis Island, but nothing comes up.
Steve
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Steve62
The Luigi Scattola you found in 1923 passenger list is actually my grandmother who immigrated. From the time she immigrated, she hadn't seen her parents until 1954 when they came to America for what was suppose to be a move, it so turns out they were not exactly happy the short time they were here and wanted to return. I do have a copy of her on the passenger list and the name of the ship and who her sponsor was (my great uncle Michael Hrelyanovich) her mother's brother.
The information you found in the Cemetery, I haven't looked at yet but will shortly. I am hoping that it is them. I received a reply from my very first inquiry from Svenja that found the surname Scattola in Tezze sul Brenta Vicenza, Veneto, Italia. I looked at the record but nothing makes sense to me.
If any small detail comes to mind I will pass it on to you
Thanks for the help you have given me...
-
Steve, I guess that cemetery information was not exactly the cemetery. I had to translate it and silly me it just says "Cemetery Service for the Municipality of Parma" I feel stupid at least I now have a death date. That is more than I've had for many years. I had no idea he died long after I was born. I hadn't visited their grave until 1970.
You know the old saying "If I knew then what I know now" (about genealogy) back in 1970, I would have interrogated everyone of my grandmother's family like I was an FBI agent. Getting names, dates, places, but what does a 14 y/o know about genealogy, I was just along for the experience little did I know that I would enjoy this so much....Hind sight is 20/20!
Best regards,
Amy
-
Steve, the information given to me by Svenja for Luigi Scattola born in Tezze sul Brenta Vincenza, Veneto, Italia was not correct. If the d/o death was 1964 making him 81 the other Luigi Scattola died at age 72, and the parents don't match up.
The following information is what I recovered through the website Archives. Perhaps something here can help.
Luigi Scattol
Death Record
Luigi Scattola
Male
White
B/D 9 Mar 1883
B/P Austria
Father: Alojz Scattola
Mother: Maria Paoletich
SSN 085309821
Notes
Nov 1954: Name listed as Luigi Scattola
Members in Household: Alojz Scattola (n) Maria Paoletich
Collection
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index
Kind Regards,
Amy
-
Hi Amy,
I will try and contact them in Parma to find exact cemetery.
Thanks for extra info.
Not giving up yet!!
Regards
Steve
-
Hi Amy,
We might be looking at the wrong place for the birth of Luigi in Austria. Gone back to history and here is why.
In 1867 Austria formed a dual monarchy with HUNGARY until 1918. So was he born in Austria or Hungary? Just an idea.
His fathers' first name ALOJZ is from Slovenia.
His mothers' surname PAOLETICHE comes from Croatia where a lot of Italians were. Most people with this surname were born in BUJE, which is in Istria. The surname is also found in Slovania.
So we have Austria, Hungary, Italy. Slovania and Croatia were part of Yugoslavia at one time.
Istria was part of Italy 1918-1945. After WW2 it became part of Yugoslavia. It is actually a triangular peninsola that is part of CROATIA and SLOVANIA extending to VENICE.
Hope not to have bored you, but going to have great fun trying to sort this one out whether its iItaly or not.
Regards
Steve
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Hello Steve
I would be very grateful if you could spare the time to look at this query for me. I have tried to attach a record with this but it is obviously too large!! I will try and reconfigure it but my IT skills are not great! :-[ If you have access to Ancestry this is the link in case I fail
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1993/images/41814_b157227-00326?pId=128913
This concerns my husband's 3rd gt aunt Sarah Parmiter, conditionally baptised into the RC faith in Dorset in 1841 who I believe became a Nun in the Augustinian Order. Despite many attempts to find further info for her I have nothing after the 1841 census and her baptism in 1841 until this death record in 1906 in Rome.
I have tried to find info for her address in Rome where she died, via Palermo, 19, Rome and also the clerks who registered her death with officials Alfredo Scalamonti and Bruto Scarpetti. I have drawn a blank on all three.
We would dearly love to know anything about her life in Rome.
Thank you
Sally
-
Trying the attachments again for sarah Parmiter
-
Hi Sally
This is a new one for me ???
But, but have emailed the Augustian Nuns here in Italy with details to see if they have archives.
Right or wrong or against privacy I don't know ;)
Steve
-
Steve thank you for taking the trouble. Religious orders are very difficult to research. There is a UK Index but it only covers Sisters/Nuns who remained in Convents in the UK. Once they went out into the community or moved abroad there is nothing. I have emailed organisations in the Uk but most haven't even replied!!
I have researched this Family for the last 15 years and this Lady, and her sister Maria Shepherd Parmiter, an Ursuline Nun, have proven equally elusive!!
Regards Sally
-
Ok see if we can sort this one and then the sister.
Steve
-
Hi Steve
I already have posts for Maria in USA
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=840792.0
and The Common Room
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=840475.0
There is also a very comprehensive post here:-
./viewtopic.php?f=3&t=239
a relatively new Uk based Forum which took over from Who Do You Think You Are.
Thanks Sally
-
ok for some reason when I copy and paste and click post it misses the first part out!! >:(
so I will type it.
./viewtopic.php?f=3&t=239
Sally
-
OK I give up!
It is on the Uk based Forum ..org.uk under General research queries and is titled "Parmiter Nuns"
Sally
-
Sally,
No problem. Glitches happen to the best of us. ::)
Speak to you soon I hope with some info.
Steve
-
Have done a little digging today and discovered that "via Palermo, 19, Roma" was the home/office of a Lawyer, Giacomo Ruta, via the attached. He also wrote a text book published in 1896.
Sally
-
Hi Sally
Well you are clever digging about.
Compliment you!
I'll look into that.
Steve
-
Hi,
I've been at a dead-end for a long while researching my Great-Great Grandparents, and would be grateful for any help you could offer.
My Great-Great Grandfather, Domenico Sabini was born c. 1852 in Borgo val di Taro (Emilia Romagna, Province Parma).
His wife, Maria Campominosi (Campomenosi?) was born c. 1863, I'm not sure where, but this surname is also common in Emilia Romagna and Liguria regions of Italy according to online name maps.
I have been trying to find their vital records, Birth and Marriage since I only have evidence of them from census records and childrens baptisms once they arrived in London, UK. However, their first child Augusto/Antoine was born in Paris in 1883, so I cannot rule out the possibility that Domenico and Maria may have met and married in France rather than Italy.
Thanks for reading
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member1799
Right see if I can sort this one out.
Its a pleasure.
Steve
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member1799
Right see if I can sort this one out.
Its a pleasure.
Steve
Thanks Steve
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Hi Steve
Happy New Year
Just tidying up loose ends. Did you manage to find anything further re Sarah Parmiter please??
Thanks
Sally
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meekhcs
Not been successful at the moment, sorry,
GENERAL MESSAGE TO ALL:-
At the moment with the current situation in Italy many Town Halls are dealing only with internal matters. It all depends on what "colour" the Region is in with "lockdown". Online Government offices online are ok - ex. Archives, but with reduced staff. So I am afraid its a bit difficult to get replies at the moment.
Steve
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Completely understand. Thanks for the update
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Will let everyone know when we are back on action.
Steve
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Hi Steve
I wonder if you might be able to assist with tracing vital records for a gx2 uncle of mine, Antonio da Prato a figure maker who emigrated to Belfast and later worked as an ice cream man in a scotland; d 1930. I know from
marriage and census records in Ireland and Scotland that he was b 1866-1867 in Barga, Lucca, and that his father was Raffaele Prato / Da Prato, a farmer who was deceased by the time of Antonio’s marriage in Belfast in 1889.
I would like to find out anything I can about his family in Barga including the identity of his mother, siblings etc.
Any assistance would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Dan
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Hi Dan
I found Antonio birth record, mother looks like Teresa di Francesco Alberti. But I think it is Teresa Alberti, Francesco is her father.
I tried to attach a copy but couldn't get it under the 500kb for attachments, I will keep trying.
Jim
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Thanks very much Jim. Where did you find it?. Can you tell me Antonio’s date of birth?
Cheers
Dan
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I found it on familysearch, born December 30,1866
Jim
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Thanks a lot Jim. By coincidence I have today been sent a copy of his baptism record by someone from the Barga Research Group. That confirms all the info you kindly dug up. 30 Dec 1866 was actually the baptism it seems and he was born a day earlier! It has helped me put several other pieces of the family puzzle together. Turns out he had a brother Giuseppe who also came to Scotland and it looks as if one of his sons may have been among the survivors of the Arandora Star tragedy. So there is lots more research to be done. Thanks again for your kind help.
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Thanks a lot Jim. By coincidence I have today been sent a copy of his baptism record by someone from the Barga Research Group. That confirms all the info you kindly dug up. 30 Dec 1866 was actually the baptism it seems and he was born a day earlier! It has helped me put several other pieces of the family puzzle together. Turns out he had a brother Giuseppe who also came to Scotland and it looks as if one of his sons may have been among the survivors of the Arandora Star tragedy. So there is lots more research to be done. Thanks again for your kind help.
For the record, just in case anyone has an interest or family connection, Giuseppes son Antonio was NOT on the Arandora Star. It appears he may have been on the SS Ettrick, another ship carrying deportees to Canada, which sailed the following day 3 Jul 1940.
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The list of casualties from the Arandona Star was made public. I am not sure the list of survivors ever was. But I believe this information is held and can be requested from National Archive in Kew.
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H Folks,
Just a little note about Italian Records here in Italy.
As you know you can obtain BMD either from the Provincial Archives (more or less) and the local town hall registry offices (Ufficio Anagrafe) giving as much info as possible. A lot will require a date or at least a year. Over the last year I have found it increasingly difficult to get replies here in Italy due to COVId and staff shortages. In some cases they are asking for a small fee or in several cases I was asked why I wanted the info and what relationship was I to the person. Seems privacy laws are creeping in here.
As regards anyone searching records in Rome should remember that the territory is split into 15 town halls. I have been unable to get info from two Rome cemeteries by e-mail. Upon telephoning I was told to write!! And??
I started this posting some time ago and found it easy to get hold of records, but times have changed.
steve62
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Hi everyone,
Its been sometime since I have been on this posting of mine. I was blocked when we had the covid pandemic. Just to reiterate something I wrote. During covid the town halls "comune" were closed or staff cut to the bone. Afterwards when they re-opened the staff levels were never really brought up to pre-covid in many cases. Another factor was that many cut the office hours from 5 days a week to 3 mornings and one afternoon.
I have had requests from people in the UK/USA - not Rootschat. Seems people I have helped in the past have passed on my e-mail and thats fin. As menioned in a posting on Rootschat I have found problens obtaining info from "Comune," namely a few cases; what relation are you? The person concerned must write with a copy of I.D. and explain the relationship. There will be a fee'.
One example; A town of 700 inhabitants - requested a birth certificate and attached a copy of my canadian friends passport and explained it was his grandfather. No reply to e-mail sent twice. Tried the telephone and the message was "Please leave a message". Tried again and ditto.
At this point I am sorry, but its getting a waste of time researching here.
However if anyone has documents in italian I will be pleased to translae them for you.
I did this posting a few years ago to help our members, because I have had so much help from members here in the past and it is only correct that I should input something.
Steve62
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https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=876890.0
Hi. Would you be able to help with this please, I have had a little but wondered if there was anything else of interest.
The first 2 images are in the wrong order.
Thanks
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Hi,
Will give it a try.
Can you send me the document in one piece by email. If so will send you a PM with my mail.
Steve
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Hi. Just grabbing at straws, but wondering if you recognise a word on this census image. Been trying to decipher it for years! My ancestor born in 1815 apparently on the Mole of Genoa. The word in question is something like Pernerinto?
Thanks
Fred
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Hi Fred
I'm reading the same.
Btw in what context was this word used in the census?
Steve
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Hi Steve, it's in the Where Born column.
On other censuses , he's listed as British Subject, born Italy, and on another Italy Genoa
Doesn't have an Italian name though, Joseph John Bush, although his first son was called Joseph John Anthony Baptista Bush.
Fred
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Hi,
Will give it a try.
Can you send me the document in one piece by email. If so will send you a PM with my mail.
Steve
Can do that,. Thanks.
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Sent PM
Steve
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Hi Fred,
Interesting "where born".
Given Genoa which is in the Liguria Region it must be a town in Liguria. Will play around with the word and let you know.
Btw I lived in Rapallo/Santa Margherita Ligure for almost 20 years before moving to southern Italy.
Steve
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Thanks for looking Steve. I've been looking at maps and gazetteers of the area, but nothing so far. Interesting that it says on the Mole if Genoa, seems odd to be born in a harbour wall :) Might it be the area called Molo?
Lucky you , I've just returned from Scala on the Amalfi coast and loved it there.
Fred
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Hi Fred,
I enlarged that cutting and noted it reads "Pernerinto" - Molo di Genoa. First off I will show the cutting to a friend of mine and see if he agrees with our interpretation. Sometimes when a word appears in a sentence it is easier to translate in the context of the sentence.
You are correct "Molo" being a harbour wall and your ancestor was not born on the harbour wall. In this case "Molo di Genoa" is a neighbourhood in the old town of Genoa and lies behind the most antique dock area. This was one of the 6 districts in the old town. I think part of this was demolished to make way for "Expo Porto Antico". Now this mysterious word - it could have been a sub-district of the district "Molo di Genoa". This sub-district may have been demolished for the Expo. Why I say sub-district - in Rapallo we lived in Santa Maria del Campo, a sub-district of Rapallo. Official documents show this; "Santa Maria del Campo, Rapallo"
Just a bit of interest. The old town of Genoa, with its narrow streets and alleyways is still thriving today with shops and eating places and habitations. I went their many years ago and historically I found it great. The old town lies to the west of Genoa ( ie towards the French Riviera. If you go down the main street in Genoa (4 lanes one way traffic) Via XX Settembre to the top (Piazza Ferrari) then across the road is the old town, which spreads out north, south, east and west.
For now do you think we have resolved this what is "Pernerinto". It only remains for me to be sure we have interpreted the word right. Will let you know if my friend agrees with us.
Steve
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Hi Steve, thanks for your interest and help. Yes I think we may be on the right lines, but I've looked for years for the town or village or location that refers to without success. Without this I have no idea on how to find his birth registration.
As I said I'm not even sure he's Italian!
Fred
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Hi Fred,
I think from that clip it proves where he was born and we have proof Molo di Genoa being the district of birth. If we are talking 1815 as birth year the "Archivi di Genova" might have recording - depends how far theygo back. Some archives go further back. The point of the surname Bush does'nt particulary matter, because foreigners born/died in Italy would/will be registered.
I am presuming this snippet was from an italian document. Do you have the full copy and other documents in Italian?
Steve
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Hi Steve
It's actually a clip from 1861 London UK census. Joseph was a sawmaker in London , the only details I have on his birth are from UK censuses. They all claim he was born in Italy in 1815, specifically in Genoa. I will try and contact the Archivi.
Regards Fred
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Hi Fred,
Looked on site a minute ago. No birth records for 1815.
Will make a phone call to Genoa town hall and ask where these records can be found
Steve
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Hi Steve
That's very kind of you.
Fred
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Hi Fred,
Telephoned Genoa. Said either the archives or church records. Archives we know is a no. Church records - which church and where?
The mysterious word going to play around with it. Thought it was old italian, but you say 1861 uk census.
Steve
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Hi Fred,
Been searching for birth records in Genoa 1815. The Archives jump a few years and 1815 is not there. Had a look at "Familysearch". Nothing, but they say old church records are hard to find and very few are online. Had a look at churches in the districts of the old town and Molo di Genova is not shown.
Just curiosity: do you know when he came to the UK, when he was married? What do earlier/later UK census show as place of birth.
Steve
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Hi Steve
Thanks for you help .
Here's a summary of what I know
Joseph John Bush
b 1815 Genoa Italy
d 1878 Osborn St London UK
m Caroline Cave 25 Dec 1836 St Botolph Without Aldgate
Census details
1841 no birthplace in 1841 census
1851 Italy British Subject
1861 Pernerinto (?) Mole of Genoa
1871 Italy Genoa
I have found no trace of him coming to UK.
No trace of a birth/baptism in UK
Fred
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Hi Fred,
A needle in a haystack.
Steve
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Hi,
Will give it a try.
Can you send me the document in one piece by email. If so will send you a PM with my mail.
Steve
Can do that,. Thanks.
Did you manage to send me the document?
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Hi Steve
Absolutely!
Thank you for taking an interest and making those calls, much appreciated. I think Mr Bush will have to go back on the back burner for a while. Something will turn up one day I'm sure.
Fred
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Fred,
I am always here if you need me.
In the meantime I'll have a think.
Steve
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Many thanks Steve, or should I say Grazie Mille
Fred
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Hi,
Will give it a try.
Can you send me the document in one piece by email. If so will send you a PM with my mail.
Steve
Can do that,. Thanks.
Did you manage to send me the document?
Sent on Saturday, just resent. My email is similar to my username.
Thanks
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Hi,
Not received email.
Maybe by PM send me your email and will answer. That way you can attach in replying.
Steve
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Hi Wilcoxon,
Have translated the document and sent it via your e-mail.
Let me know if you need anything more.
Steve
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Hi Wilcoxon,
Have translated the document and sent it via your e-mail.
Let me know if you need anything more.
Steve
Thank you so much it was a great help .
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I'm researching my mother's family from Pescina and not finding much. My grandfather's name was Rufino Croce (born 1888) so I realize Croce is a very common name. His father was Paolo Croce who was married to Ruffina (or Pippina) Rugerei (or Rugerii). Any help would be appreciated. Sue
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Hi Sue,
Had a quick look Archives of Abruzzo and Aquila(they are not all transcribed)FindMyPast, Anc, Antenati and FS. Did'nt find anything.
A question; you have the names of the parents of Rufino Croce. Where did this info come from, ie. his birth certificate? If so it will show their ages and place of birth and from that I can trace backwards.
If we are drawing blanks I will write to "Anagrafe Comune di Pescina" and see if they will send me a copy of the BC Rufino Croce.
Steve
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Hi Steve
re The Sarah Parmiter/DHM post you were helping me with when covid struck!
I am happy to report that after endless searching and many emails I have found out how Sarah Parmiter came to die in Italy in 1906. I have managed to put together her life from my last knowledge of her in the UK, via Paris and finally in Rome.
Once again many thanks for your input.
Warmest regards Sally
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Hi Sally
Glad I could help(?).
Good on you and it just shows when a door closes, open another. Takes time.
I had been looking for the death of my g.gf who left his wife after she had an affair. Took me nearly two years puting bits of info together. Found it a short while ago. He'd been moving all over the place.
Always here for you.
Warm regards
Steve
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Hi Wilcoxon,
Have translated the document and sent it via your e-mail.
Let me know if you need anything more.
Steve
Thank you so much it was a great help .
Did you get the story by email ?