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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Ebch on Friday 21 November 14 19:36 GMT (UK)

Title: Edward Orpen
Post by: Ebch on Friday 21 November 14 19:36 GMT (UK)
I would love to know if in 1824/1825 an EDWARD ORPEN sentenced at Tralee court, county Kerry, Ireland to 7 years transportation arrived in Australia and if anyone has a record of what became of him.  He was sentenced for perjury.  I don't know his age but think he could be between 35-45 years old.  National Archives Ireland only show the above bare facts.  Many thanks  :)
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Christine53 on Friday 21 November 14 20:04 GMT (UK)
Edward Orpen 34 , convicted 1824 Tralee , arrived Sydney Cove 3 Jan 1826 on Sir Godfrey Webster. There is an entry in the Convict Death Registers :- Edward Orpen b abt 1792 died 7 Dec 1829 Hoxham , Newcastle , New South Wales

.http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e8l/

Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Ebch on Friday 21 November 14 20:35 GMT (UK)
Many thanks indeed for such a prompt helpful reply  :D
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Neil Todd on Friday 21 November 14 21:12 GMT (UK)
You can get a transcription of his DC see resources section. Cheaper than actual and emailed.
There are two registrations. 369/1829 V18291369 13 and 8268/1829 V18298268 2C

The place is actually HEXHAM and is near Newcastle NSW

Neil
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: rosball on Friday 21 November 14 21:44 GMT (UK)
Strangely there is this note in Hobart Town Gazette on 1 July 1825
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article1090867

On the Asia also arrived Edward Orpen,
Esq., a late Magistrate of the County of
Kerry, of long standing, under a similar sen-
tence, for perjury.

regards
  Ros
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: rosball on Friday 21 November 14 21:47 GMT (UK)
And this letter of thanks from the passengers to the surgeon on Sir Godfrey Webster signed (first) by Edward Orpen

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article37071852

regards
  Ros

adding : top of the rightmost column
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Ebch on Friday 21 November 14 21:55 GMT (UK)
Thank you for advice on DC.  Will do it tomorrow.  Yes it was a strange case and reading it I think he was well and truly stitched up to get him out of the way!   Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Aussie1947 on Friday 21 November 14 22:17 GMT (UK)
Hi,

The death registration might only be a burial registration considering the year.  Over the next week I hopefully will be going to the Queensland State Library and it holds the early NSW BDM Microfilms and I could check the film Registrations posted by Neil.

Gerry
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Ebch on Sunday 23 November 14 15:41 GMT (UK)
Thanks Aussie - that is really kind of you.  My gut feeling is that he was joined in Dec 1824 by some of his family and that Maria Orpen could have been his wife Maria Crumpe Orpen.  He did leave behind, when transported,  a wife and eight children.  Look forward to seeing if you can get further information.  Meanwhile I am happy to search anything you need here in England.
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: giblet on Sunday 23 November 14 20:00 GMT (UK)
The Morning Post (London, England), Thursday, August 19, 1824
CONVICTION OF A MAGISTRATE FOR PERJURY
The next case was the trial of Edward Orpen; Esq, a Gentleman who had served for a great number of years as Magistrate of the county Kerry, and was put upon his trial for wilful and corrupt perjury. He was found guilty and sentenced for transportation for seven years.


I have also found the newspaper article on his full trial, if you havent already got it and would like a copy PM me your email and i will forward it on. [the article is to long to type out and post on here]
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Ebch on Sunday 23 November 14 20:19 GMT (UK)
Thank you giblet.  I have already read the trial.  We grumble about justice today but thankfully it has come some way since then.  Sent you a pm.  Thanks again  :)
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 23 November 14 22:22 GMT (UK)
Thanks Aussie - that is really kind of you.  My gut feeling is that he was joined in Dec 1824 by some of his family and that Maria Orpen could have been his wife Maria Crumpe Orpen.  He did leave behind, when transported,  a wife and eight children.

Ebch,
Do you know the names of any of Edward ORPEN's children?
Had you seen this shipping detail?

Mrs ORPEN and family per Lang from Hobart 1826.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8790603
 

He was not the only chap named ORPEN in the colony at that time, but there are some BMD items which may relate to your family.

Sue
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: majm on Sunday 23 November 14 22:37 GMT (UK)
Hi

Many of the parish registers for Hexham C of E (Christ Church Cathedral) and surrounds are readily available as images and the links are  part of RootsChat NSW Resources Board.   

There are two registrations. 369/1829 V18291369 13 and 8268/1829 V18298268 2C
The place is actually HEXHAM and is near Newcastle NSW

I can confirm that volumes 13 and 2C are C of E. 

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0    NSW Resources

Cheers,   JM

Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: majm on Sunday 23 November 14 22:46 GMT (UK)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/2465674175/in/set-72157605008173551/

No. 80
Ewd Orpen, of Patersons River, buried 7 January, (1829) of Unknown age,  Shipís name Sir Godfrey Webster, a Prisoner, Ceremony performed by  Rev Wilkinson.

Note, NSW SRO has his age as 57

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=65

Cheers,   JM
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: majm on Sunday 23 November 14 22:52 GMT (UK)
Edward Orpen 34 , convicted 1824 Tralee , arrived Sydney Cove 3 Jan 1826 on Sir Godfrey Webster. There is an entry in the Convict Death Registers :- Edward Orpen b abt 1792 died 7 Dec 1829 Hoxham , Newcastle , New South Wales

.http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e8l/

Hi there,

May I gently mention that from the link cited, there's some mistookens 

 :) The date on that register is 07/01/1829, so that's January, and not Dec (ember)
 :) The age of 57 gives a birth year of about 1772,  so that's a generation earlier than 1792. 

Cheers,  JM

Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: majm on Monday 24 November 14 00:10 GMT (UK)
Sir Godfrey Webster indents 1826

Edward ORPEN, aged 54, Reads and Writes,
Protestant, Married,  Wife and 8 Children,
of Co Kerry,
charged with Perjury, trial at Tralee, Summer Assizes 1824,   
sentenced to 7 years transportation, no previous convictions.
5ft 7 Ĺ inches,  fair florid complexion,  dark hair  light hazel eyes,   
Assigned to F Greenway, Sydney.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Greenway   


1828 NSW Census likely has the wife and children under her maiden name.   

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Neil Todd on Monday 24 November 14 00:49 GMT (UK)
Could this be a SON? B1825

http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Search/Home?lookfor=Edward+ORPEN&type=all&limit%5B%5D=&submit=Find

Neil
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Aussie1947 on Monday 24 November 14 01:17 GMT (UK)

Hi,

The Orpen family members who arrived in Sydney on the Lang from London via Hobart.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2185104?searchTerm=

Gerry
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Aussie1947 on Monday 24 November 14 01:27 GMT (UK)

More details of the Open passengers on the 'Lang'

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2185023?searchTerm=

Gerry
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: judb on Monday 24 November 14 06:09 GMT (UK)
You may be interested to know that the "F Greenway" to whom Orpen was assigned in 1826 was (almost certainly) a convict himself who designed some of Australia's best colonial architecture.  Greenway had been found guilty of forging a document in 1812 when he already had a prcatice as an architect in Bristol.  He was allowed quite a deal of freedom and set up in private practice in Sydney immediately.

He later fell out of favour and was farming a grant of land on the Hunter River which is possibly where Orpen finished up as Hexham is on the Hunter also.

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/greenway-francis-2120

Judith

Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: sparrett on Monday 24 November 14 06:33 GMT (UK)
Samuel  ORPEN, a listed passenger on the Lang may have been a married son of Edward ORPEN. He died young-

7146/1826 V18267146 2C   ORPEN Samuel
Aged25

His wife Elizabeth remarried
1828,James Phelps marries Mrs Orpen, Sydney

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2190733

John ORPEN, also listed on the Lang with wife, later appears as bankrupt storekeeper of Gosford

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13018834

Sue
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: majm on Monday 24 November 14 08:40 GMT (UK)
From the Biographical Database of Australia

James Christy PHELPS, aged 33, Bachelor, of Sydney,  HM Customs
And
Elizabeth ORPEN, aged 24, Widow of Sydney
Married 12 July 1828, by licence, registered St James C of E, Rev Richard HILL
Witnesses Charles H CHAMBERS of Elizabeth St Sydney, and Isabella Maria Ann HAYWOOD of near Parramatta
ALL signed.

Samuel ORPEN, originally free, Gentleman, of Patersonís Plains, died aged 25, buried 9 December 1826, by Rev G A Middleton, registered Christ Church C of E, Newcastle.

1828 Nov Census
Householder ORPEN Daniel Crump, Residence: Sellick,  Patersons Plains   (some transcriptions have it as ORPIN) arrived per Sir Godfrey Webster.     
Maria CRUMP, aged 50, Protestant, arrived per Lang 1826, Free
John Wood CRUMP 9,  protestant, born in the colony
Alice CRUMP, 15 protestant, born in the colony
Marie CRUMP 14, protestant, born in the colony
Ann CRUMP 11, protestant, born in the colony
Robert STEEL, 26, protestant, per Isabella, free, servant
David MALONG, 50, Catholic, per Mangles, 1828 life, government servant

http://www.bda-online.org.au/

ADD Samuel's burial https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/2465673641/in/set-72157605008173551/

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: sparrett on Monday 24 November 14 10:38 GMT (UK)

 
1828 Nov Census
Householder ORPEN Daniel Crump, Residence: Sellick,  Patersons Plains   (some transcriptions have it as ORPIN) arrived per Sir Godfrey Webster.     
Maria CRUMP, aged 50, Protestant, arrived per Lang 1826, Free
John Wood CRUMP 9,  protestant, born in the colony
Alice CRUMP, 15 protestant, born in the colony
Marie CRUMP 14, protestant, born in the colony
Ann CRUMP 11, protestant, born in the colony
Robert STEEL, 26, protestant, per Isabella, free, servant
David MALONG, 50, Catholic, per Mangles, 1828 life, government servant

http://www.bda-online.org.au/

ADD Samuel's burial https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/2465673641/in/set-72157605008173551/

Cheers,  JM


Well, here we have Maria  ORPEN and some family who are seemingly using her maiden name as their surname  and stating born in colony.  Her husband in 1828 was still living...(buried Jan. 1829)... so why the use of the maiden name?

Here is Alice's death-

9112/1830 V18309112 2C
ORPEN Alicia
Age 17
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: sparrett on Monday 24 November 14 10:52 GMT (UK)




 
1828 Nov Census
Householder ORPEN Daniel Crump, Residence: Sellick,  Patersons Plains   (some transcriptions have it as ORPIN) arrived per Sir Godfrey Webster.     
   
 Cheers,  JM


http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2215174

Daniel Crump HORPON is  cross-examined in 1834. HORPON/ ORPEN ??

Sue
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Ebch on Monday 24 November 14 12:04 GMT (UK)
What an amazing amount of information within 36 hours of asking!  Thank you everyone.  I am going to make a large strong black coffee now and spend a couple of hours digesting it all.  I can see the picture emerging.  Will be back  :)
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Ebch on Monday 24 November 14 18:09 GMT (UK)
What a great bunch you have all been  :D 
5 hours later (and many black coffees) I have positively confirmed the parentage of Edward Orpen.  The 1828 census helped in confirming his family although it has some mistakes.  The family arrived in 1826 so it was impossible for the children to have been born in NSW.  Maybe the enumerator was having a bad day or had difficulty with the Kerry accent.  (Kerry-County :))  It was usual for children to take the mother's maiden name as their middle name.  Daniel Crumpe Orpen, a son,  was HOH in 1828 so maybe again the enumerator's pen was short of ink.  In just one of the ten or so newspaper reports that I read  over here re the perjury case was mentioned Edward being lately of Island Lodge (Kerry)  It no longer stands but I eventually found his father living there with Edward and his siblings.
So I have achieved what I was looking for and if anyone in Australia has Orpens going back to this family I am more than happy to send details of Edward's forebears.
Once again, many many thanks to you all.  I could not believe the response!

Sparrett - Samuel died 1826 )
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Neil Todd on Monday 24 November 14 20:31 GMT (UK)
Do you know if there are any relations by the surname MORIARTY. It seemed very odd that the person I found had the name Edward ORPEN Moriarty  ???

Neil
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: sparrett on Monday 24 November 14 20:38 GMT (UK)
Sparrett - Samuel died 1826 )
Ebch

Yes, I noted this in reply #20 ;D

It is good you are pleased with the outcomes and findings ;D

During the process of this inquiry I was browsing some online trees and family histories related to the ORPENs in Australia and must say you (and we) now know more about them than most who have published material.

Sad the Edward died only a couple of years into his sentence. >:(

Sue

Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Ebch on Monday 24 November 14 21:17 GMT (UK)
Yes Neil - I had come across a marriage in 1816 of what appears to be two brothers, Lieuts. Redmond and Merrion Moriarty R.N. to  Dorcas and Anne, daughters of Edward Orpen of Kerry.  But that Edward Orpen died I think 1817 before my Edward left Ireland.  Any of their children would be .......Orpen Moriartys.   Glad I am not sorting out their offspring!  But the information might be useful to anyone researching Edward Orpen Moriarty in Australia,  the engineer?
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Ebch on Tuesday 25 November 14 15:45 GMT (UK)
Just in case anyone is following the Orpen Moriarty line - Whilst tidying away I found a note that
REDMOND MORIARTY married ANNE ORPEN and had 4 sons, one a barrister, and 7 daughters.  There is a very detailed obit for MERRION MORIARTY in Cork Examiner April 1864 going back to Admiral Moriarty and through the Admiral giving links to Daniel O'Connell :)
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: kermie62 on Tuesday 20 June 17 14:23 BST (UK)
Hi Ebch

Are you researching Edward Orpen out of curiosity or is he family.

There is a very large facebook group of his descendants via his daughter Maria who married Adam Sproule (plus some of the descendants of Maria's brother) and they are having a reunion in a couple of months
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: kermie62 on Tuesday 20 June 17 14:36 BST (UK)
Thanks Aussie - that is really kind of you.  My gut feeling is that he was joined in Dec 1824 by some of his family and that Maria Orpen could have been his wife Maria Crumpe Orpen.  He did leave behind, when transported,  a wife and eight children.  Look forward to seeing if you can get further information.  Meanwhile I am happy to search anything you need here in England.

Edwards wife was Maria Crumpe Orpen. His daughter was also called Maria Orpen. The family came out to Australa following him on the Lang. He came over on the Sir Godfrey Webster
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: Ebch on Sunday 02 July 17 14:26 BST (UK)
No,not family rather a link in a Daniel O'Connell story but thank you for your reply.
Title: Re: Edward Orpen
Post by: SandieM on Sunday 02 June 19 14:35 BST (UK)
Hi all, thank you for this wonderful information. I've just started researching Edward on behalf of a descendent and your info has really helped. Could anyone possibly advise what the name of the Facebook group is? Cheers