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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Ebch on Friday 21 November 14 19:36 GMT (UK)
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I would love to know if in 1824/1825 an EDWARD ORPEN sentenced at Tralee court, county Kerry, Ireland to 7 years transportation arrived in Australia and if anyone has a record of what became of him. He was sentenced for perjury. I don't know his age but think he could be between 35-45 years old. National Archives Ireland only show the above bare facts. Many thanks :)
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Edward Orpen 34 , convicted 1824 Tralee , arrived Sydney Cove 3 Jan 1826 on Sir Godfrey Webster. There is an entry in the Convict Death Registers :- Edward Orpen b abt 1792 died 7 Dec 1829 Hoxham , Newcastle , New South Wales
.http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e8l/
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Many thanks indeed for such a prompt helpful reply :D
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You can get a transcription of his DC see resources section. Cheaper than actual and emailed.
There are two registrations. 369/1829 V18291369 13 and 8268/1829 V18298268 2C
The place is actually HEXHAM and is near Newcastle NSW
Neil
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Strangely there is this note in Hobart Town Gazette on 1 July 1825
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article1090867
On the Asia also arrived Edward Orpen,
Esq., a late Magistrate of the County of
Kerry, of long standing, under a similar sen-
tence, for perjury.
regards
Ros
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And this letter of thanks from the passengers to the surgeon on Sir Godfrey Webster signed (first) by Edward Orpen
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article37071852
regards
Ros
adding : top of the rightmost column
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Thank you for advice on DC. Will do it tomorrow. Yes it was a strange case and reading it I think he was well and truly stitched up to get him out of the way! Thanks everyone.
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Hi,
The death registration might only be a burial registration considering the year. Over the next week I hopefully will be going to the Queensland State Library and it holds the early NSW BDM Microfilms and I could check the film Registrations posted by Neil.
Gerry
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Thanks Aussie - that is really kind of you. My gut feeling is that he was joined in Dec 1824 by some of his family and that Maria Orpen could have been his wife Maria Crumpe Orpen. He did leave behind, when transported, a wife and eight children. Look forward to seeing if you can get further information. Meanwhile I am happy to search anything you need here in England.
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The Morning Post (London, England), Thursday, August 19, 1824
CONVICTION OF A MAGISTRATE FOR PERJURY
The next case was the trial of Edward Orpen; Esq, a Gentleman who had served for a great number of years as Magistrate of the county Kerry, and was put upon his trial for wilful and corrupt perjury. He was found guilty and sentenced for transportation for seven years.
I have also found the newspaper article on his full trial, if you havent already got it and would like a copy PM me your email and i will forward it on. [the article is to long to type out and post on here]
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Thank you giblet. I have already read the trial. We grumble about justice today but thankfully it has come some way since then. Sent you a pm. Thanks again :)
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Thanks Aussie - that is really kind of you. My gut feeling is that he was joined in Dec 1824 by some of his family and that Maria Orpen could have been his wife Maria Crumpe Orpen. He did leave behind, when transported, a wife and eight children.
Ebch,
Do you know the names of any of Edward ORPEN's children?
Had you seen this shipping detail?
Mrs ORPEN and family per Lang from Hobart 1826.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8790603
He was not the only chap named ORPEN in the colony at that time, but there are some BMD items which may relate to your family.
Sue
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Hi
Many of the parish registers for Hexham C of E (Christ Church Cathedral) and surrounds are readily available as images and the links are part of RootsChat NSW Resources Board.
There are two registrations. 369/1829 V18291369 13 and 8268/1829 V18298268 2C
The place is actually HEXHAM and is near Newcastle NSW
I can confirm that volumes 13 and 2C are C of E.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0 NSW Resources
Cheers, JM
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/2465674175/in/set-72157605008173551/
No. 80
Ewd Orpen, of Patersons River, buried 7 January, (1829) of Unknown age, Ship’s name Sir Godfrey Webster, a Prisoner, Ceremony performed by Rev Wilkinson.
Note, NSW SRO has his age as 57
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=65
Cheers, JM
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Edward Orpen 34 , convicted 1824 Tralee , arrived Sydney Cove 3 Jan 1826 on Sir Godfrey Webster. There is an entry in the Convict Death Registers :- Edward Orpen b abt 1792 died 7 Dec 1829 Hoxham , Newcastle , New South Wales
.http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e8l/
Hi there,
May I gently mention that from the link cited, there's some mistookens
:) The date on that register is 07/01/1829, so that's January, and not Dec (ember)
:) The age of 57 gives a birth year of about 1772, so that's a generation earlier than 1792.
Cheers, JM
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Sir Godfrey Webster indents 1826
Edward ORPEN, aged 54, Reads and Writes,
Protestant, Married, Wife and 8 Children,
of Co Kerry,
charged with Perjury, trial at Tralee, Summer Assizes 1824,
sentenced to 7 years transportation, no previous convictions.
5ft 7 ½ inches, fair florid complexion, dark hair light hazel eyes,
Assigned to F Greenway, Sydney.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Greenway
1828 NSW Census likely has the wife and children under her maiden name.
Cheers, JM
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Could this be a SON? B1825
http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Search/Home?lookfor=Edward+ORPEN&type=all&limit%5B%5D=&submit=Find
Neil
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Hi,
The Orpen family members who arrived in Sydney on the Lang from London via Hobart.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2185104?searchTerm=
Gerry
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More details of the Open passengers on the 'Lang'
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2185023?searchTerm=
Gerry
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You may be interested to know that the "F Greenway" to whom Orpen was assigned in 1826 was (almost certainly) a convict himself who designed some of Australia's best colonial architecture. Greenway had been found guilty of forging a document in 1812 when he already had a prcatice as an architect in Bristol. He was allowed quite a deal of freedom and set up in private practice in Sydney immediately.
He later fell out of favour and was farming a grant of land on the Hunter River which is possibly where Orpen finished up as Hexham is on the Hunter also.
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/greenway-francis-2120
Judith
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Samuel ORPEN, a listed passenger on the Lang may have been a married son of Edward ORPEN. He died young-
7146/1826 V18267146 2C ORPEN Samuel
Aged25
His wife Elizabeth remarried
1828,James Phelps marries Mrs Orpen, Sydney
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2190733
John ORPEN, also listed on the Lang with wife, later appears as bankrupt storekeeper of Gosford
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13018834
Sue
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From the Biographical Database of Australia
James Christy PHELPS, aged 33, Bachelor, of Sydney, HM Customs
And
Elizabeth ORPEN, aged 24, Widow of Sydney
Married 12 July 1828, by licence, registered St James C of E, Rev Richard HILL
Witnesses Charles H CHAMBERS of Elizabeth St Sydney, and Isabella Maria Ann HAYWOOD of near Parramatta
ALL signed.
Samuel ORPEN, originally free, Gentleman, of Paterson’s Plains, died aged 25, buried 9 December 1826, by Rev G A Middleton, registered Christ Church C of E, Newcastle.
1828 Nov Census
Householder ORPEN Daniel Crump, Residence: Sellick, Patersons Plains (some transcriptions have it as ORPIN) arrived per Sir Godfrey Webster.
Maria CRUMP, aged 50, Protestant, arrived per Lang 1826, Free
John Wood CRUMP 9, protestant, born in the colony
Alice CRUMP, 15 protestant, born in the colony
Marie CRUMP 14, protestant, born in the colony
Ann CRUMP 11, protestant, born in the colony
Robert STEEL, 26, protestant, per Isabella, free, servant
David MALONG, 50, Catholic, per Mangles, 1828 life, government servant
http://www.bda-online.org.au/
ADD Samuel's burial https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/2465673641/in/set-72157605008173551/
Cheers, JM
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1828 Nov Census
Householder ORPEN Daniel Crump, Residence: Sellick, Patersons Plains (some transcriptions have it as ORPIN) arrived per Sir Godfrey Webster.
Maria CRUMP, aged 50, Protestant, arrived per Lang 1826, Free
John Wood CRUMP 9, protestant, born in the colony
Alice CRUMP, 15 protestant, born in the colony
Marie CRUMP 14, protestant, born in the colony
Ann CRUMP 11, protestant, born in the colony
Robert STEEL, 26, protestant, per Isabella, free, servant
David MALONG, 50, Catholic, per Mangles, 1828 life, government servant
http://www.bda-online.org.au/
ADD Samuel's burial https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/2465673641/in/set-72157605008173551/
Cheers, JM
Well, here we have Maria ORPEN and some family who are seemingly using her maiden name as their surname and stating born in colony. Her husband in 1828 was still living...(buried Jan. 1829)... so why the use of the maiden name?
Here is Alice's death-
9112/1830 V18309112 2C
ORPEN Alicia
Age 17
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1828 Nov Census
Householder ORPEN Daniel Crump, Residence: Sellick, Patersons Plains (some transcriptions have it as ORPIN) arrived per Sir Godfrey Webster.
Cheers, JM
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2215174
Daniel Crump HORPON is cross-examined in 1834. HORPON/ ORPEN ??
Sue
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What an amazing amount of information within 36 hours of asking! Thank you everyone. I am going to make a large strong black coffee now and spend a couple of hours digesting it all. I can see the picture emerging. Will be back :)
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What a great bunch you have all been :D
5 hours later (and many black coffees) I have positively confirmed the parentage of Edward Orpen. The 1828 census helped in confirming his family although it has some mistakes. The family arrived in 1826 so it was impossible for the children to have been born in NSW. Maybe the enumerator was having a bad day or had difficulty with the Kerry accent. (Kerry-County :)) It was usual for children to take the mother's maiden name as their middle name. Daniel Crumpe Orpen, a son, was HOH in 1828 so maybe again the enumerator's pen was short of ink. In just one of the ten or so newspaper reports that I read over here re the perjury case was mentioned Edward being lately of Island Lodge (Kerry) It no longer stands but I eventually found his father living there with Edward and his siblings.
So I have achieved what I was looking for and if anyone in Australia has Orpens going back to this family I am more than happy to send details of Edward's forebears.
Once again, many many thanks to you all. I could not believe the response!
Sparrett - Samuel died 1826 )
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Do you know if there are any relations by the surname MORIARTY. It seemed very odd that the person I found had the name Edward ORPEN Moriarty ???
Neil
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Sparrett - Samuel died 1826 )
Ebch
Yes, I noted this in reply #20 ;D
It is good you are pleased with the outcomes and findings ;D
During the process of this inquiry I was browsing some online trees and family histories related to the ORPENs in Australia and must say you (and we) now know more about them than most who have published material.
Sad the Edward died only a couple of years into his sentence. >:(
Sue
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Yes Neil - I had come across a marriage in 1816 of what appears to be two brothers, Lieuts. Redmond and Merrion Moriarty R.N. to Dorcas and Anne, daughters of Edward Orpen of Kerry. But that Edward Orpen died I think 1817 before my Edward left Ireland. Any of their children would be .......Orpen Moriartys. Glad I am not sorting out their offspring! But the information might be useful to anyone researching Edward Orpen Moriarty in Australia, the engineer?
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Just in case anyone is following the Orpen Moriarty line - Whilst tidying away I found a note that
REDMOND MORIARTY married ANNE ORPEN and had 4 sons, one a barrister, and 7 daughters. There is a very detailed obit for MERRION MORIARTY in Cork Examiner April 1864 going back to Admiral Moriarty and through the Admiral giving links to Daniel O'Connell :)
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Hi Ebch
Are you researching Edward Orpen out of curiosity or is he family.
There is a very large facebook group of his descendants via his daughter Maria who married Adam Sproule (plus some of the descendants of Maria's brother) and they are having a reunion in a couple of months
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Thanks Aussie - that is really kind of you. My gut feeling is that he was joined in Dec 1824 by some of his family and that Maria Orpen could have been his wife Maria Crumpe Orpen. He did leave behind, when transported, a wife and eight children. Look forward to seeing if you can get further information. Meanwhile I am happy to search anything you need here in England.
Edwards wife was Maria Crumpe Orpen. His daughter was also called Maria Orpen. The family came out to Australa following him on the Lang. He came over on the Sir Godfrey Webster
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No,not family rather a link in a Daniel O'Connell story but thank you for your reply.
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Hi all, thank you for this wonderful information. I've just started researching Edward on behalf of a descendent and your info has really helped. Could anyone possibly advise what the name of the Facebook group is? Cheers
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Hi, this is my first post so apologies for any errors/issues.
The Edward ORPEN that you mentioned, the individual married to Maria Crumpe (reportedly his cousin) had the children:
- Richard
- Samuel
- Daniel
- John Wood
- Grace
- Mary
- Anne
- Lucinda
This Edward Orpen is son of Richard of Ardtully Orpen, son of (another) Richard of Ardtully Orpen, son of (yet another) Richard of Ardtully Orpen, son of Richard Orpen of the White House who is married to Isabella Palmer.
I have found this information in "A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain & Ireland, Volume 2" by Bernard Burke, which if you search in Google you will locate an online copy of, I am referring to just at the top of page 1031.
The Orpen - Moriarty line is a different line of the Orpen family with a different Edward Orpen (I am assembling my own version of the family links based on this source and a second source, so far I have located 6(!) individual Edward Orpen's). Major Edward Orpen of Killowen married to Elanor Connor, and had many children including Anne.
Lieutenant Redmond Moriarty and Merion Marshall Moriarty M.D. married Dorcas Orpen and Anne Orpen respectively, both of whom are sons of Admiral Sylverius Moriarty and daughters of Edward Orpen respecitvly (this is detailed in the Limerick Advertiser from 1816) [Anne married Merion, not Redmond].
Both Merion and Anne are buried in St Thomas Rest Park, Crows Nest, Sydney, Australia. I visited the location, and (my) photograph of the grave can be seen here: wikidata.org/wiki/Q104831632 and a photograph of the plaque attached here: wikidata.org/wiki/Q104828293. Note that the Sylverius Moriarty mentioned on the plaque is not the aforementioned Admiral Moriarty, but if I recall correctly, one of the children of Merion & Anne.
Thank you for all the information in this thread. Please alert me to any errors I may have made as the Moriarty - Orpen line is one to which I am directly descended.
Luke
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Forgot to mention, your original Edward Orpen is the first cousin once removed of Major Edward Orpen of Killowen. Major Orpen is son of Rev. Thomas Orpen & Agnes Herbert. Thomas is son of Captain Richard Orpen & Isabella Palmer.