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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: AW104 on Tuesday 25 November 14 11:06 GMT (UK)
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Hi. I started researching my family tree a few years ago. I was getting frustrated and making silly mistakes.
I've decided to give it another go and start from the very beginning and do it thoroughly, using certificates rather than guess work.
I'm starting with my Nana, my mothers mother. She died 10 years ago. Just before she died she burned all her documents, birth certificate, marriage certificate etc to cover up her wrong doings she said.
Anyway, the story she told me was that she was called Veronica Doris MacAulay, born 1920 in Jarrow.
She married and had a son called Kenneth Alvin Hart (born 1942.died approx 2001) Kenneth's Dad was a bigamist according to her and was sent to prison.
Nana (now called Veronica Doris Hart) then remarried Thomas Henderson in 1949 (my grandad).
My problem is that Veronica Doris MacAulay seem to be 2 different people, Veronica born 1916 (died 1916) and Doris born 1920.
Hart was my nanas mothers maiden name, Rebecca (nanas mother) died in 1920 and my nana was brought up by her grandparents and I'm presuming she used her grandparents surname.
I'm not sure why she would use her dead sisters name (Veronica).
Family members (all now a little forgetful) seem to think that she was ashamed of her bigamous marriage (married as Doris) so used her sister Veronica's name afterwards.
Would it have been possible to do that?
I am hoping to order copies of birth/marriage certificates to see if I can find a clue. Where do I start? If anyone has any suggestions I'd be very grateful.
Ali.
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Im not seeing a Hart/McAuley marriage
And looking at Kenneths birth reg, it states mums maiden name Hart.
You also say Nana used the name Hart when she was brought up.
Where does the McAuley come in?
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Is this your Nana's death, gives a date of birth for her which may be helpful:
Veronica Doris Henderson
Dob 14th April 1920
Died 1Q 2001
Redcar & Cleveland
3491B
044
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Rebecca MacAulay died 1920 aged 24.
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Marriage
Oct/Nov/Dec 1913
Stockton ref 10a 181
Rebecca HArt / Thomas Macaulay
Birth
Ap/May/Jun 1916
South Shields ref 10a 1686
Veronica Macauley mmn Hart
Birth
Ap/May/Jun 1920
South Shields ref 10a 2147
Doris Macauley mmn Hart
Birth
Jul/Aug/Sep 1942
Durham ref 10a 91
Kenneth A Hart mmn Hart
Did she actually marry Kenneth's Dad?
Or, was having a child out of wedlock, by a man who may have been related, the secret she wanted to forget?
btw, there is no reason why she couldnt have decoded to call herself Veronica if she wanted - one can call oneself whatever one wants, quite legally, unless there is intention to fraud.
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Think your first certificate needs to be the birth of Kenneth Alvin Hart to establish if a fathers name is given and also what Christian names his mother was using then. As already mentioned, he was born a Hart and mmn is also given as Hart.
Annette
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Thanks for the replies.
Yes, that's my Nana's death details.
Also the dates for MacAulays are the ones i had too. I vaguely remember doing a family tree at school and that was the name she told me she was born with.
I agree, i definitely need Kenneth's birth certificate. I'm not sure whether she married his father, he was the alleged bigamist.
How odd that having a child to a relative is mentioned, my aunt said a very similar thing yesterday and i dismissed it as malicious gossip. My aunt and Nana never got on...step-mother and daughter!I think i need to dig a little deeper on that one.
I have ordered Kenneth's birth certificate and her marriage certificate (to Henderson) to see what name she was using then and to confirm the MacAulay parents.
Thanks again.
Ali.
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What was Kenneths Dads name? (or are we awaiting birth cert to find out). I guess we have to be careful as he could still be alive.
It does occur to me if the secret, and the reason for imprisonment, maybe could be incest rather than bigamy.
I cant see how bigamy would mar Veronica Doris's life to be such a secret, if she was never married to the man, thus never a direct victim of the bigamy.
Or, alternatively, and probably more likely, it is just that she had a baby out of wedlock (Kenneth) and the father is not recorded (thus surname Hart that she was using, and mmn Hart as she was unammried) , thus the father not a Hart at all, and nothing untoward has occurred (beyond that of having an illegitiamte child). When she did marry, to Henderson, she married as Hart because that is what she was using. Will be interesting to see if she describes herself as spinster, widowed or previous marriage dissolved on that cert.
We may be making too much drama!
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Does anyone have these details yet? Apologies if they do, just catching up:
Births Jun 1920
Macaulay Doris Hart S.Shields 10a 2147
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Does anyone have these details yet? Apologies if they do, just catching up:
Births Jun 1920
Macaulay Doris Hart S.Shields 10a 2147
Its in reply #4
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I don't know what Kenneth's Dad was called, i don't think he ever knew him.
She said she was married to him but i can't find any record of it. Would a bigamous marriage be listed somewhere? And if it was i only have her name, unless the birth certificate names him of course.
I'd like to think it was just an illegitimate child, not bigamy, not incest, no drama!
Whatever the secret, it was a big one because it haunted her. :-(
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Yep I see it now ;D I am was just looking at a possible hart/hart marriage in 1949 and there seems to be an issue with the names for Doris Hart marrying someone. It's volume 3c page 1145 Nottingham, how could this happen? I haven't come across it before!
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might be this one;
Marriages Mar 1940 10a 1905 S.Shields
Cable Joseph
Hart Doris
There are no children listed for them under Cable.
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Would a bigamous marriage be listed somewhere?
It would be recorded like any other, because, at the time, it would not be known to have been bigamous, otherwise it would not have been allowed to take place!
My feeling is that she wasnt married to him, he turned out to be a rotter (maybe he promised to marry her but turned out he was already married, thus family story of "Bigamy" started even though it never actually happened) and her shame was simply that she was taken in by the guy, had his baby believing he would marry her, then he scarpered as it turned out he was already married.
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I think you need to get some certs.
Remember, years ago there were secrets kept and I am sure most people thought they would stay a secret. So a bigamist could marry again as before internet, computers etc people would just take his word that he wasnt married.
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Not sure we can do any more (other than come up with all sorts of possible scenarios) until Kenneths birth cert arrives.
Either he will be child of Doris/Veronica Hart, no previous name, father not named. In which case she was not married to the father, he could be anyone, and we can forget all worries about bigamy or incest
Or
he will be child of Doris/Veronica Hart nee McAuley, father Mr XX Hart, - in which case we can look further as to whether there was a marriage, if so whether it was bigamous, whether he was related etc
But, having mulled over the not-so-nice possibilites in previous posts, I am hoping and expecting it to be the former!
Do post the details on here when it arrives.
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Hopefully things will be a little clearer once the certificates arrive.
I am presuming she took the name Hart as it was her grandparents name and it was easier for her to use it, rather than her birth name of MacAulay.
Still can't figure out why she would use Veronica Doris though..hopefully all will be revealed soon!
Thanks again for your input. :-)
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Maybe she just didnt like the name Doris, and liked the idea of something fancier, so chose that of the sister she never knew.
Again I dont think there has to be any deep and mysterious reason!
(My grandfather started life as plain "Willie", but as a teenager/young adult he and his brother decided they wanted middle names "like everyone else" and he certainly didnt like Willie, so he called himself William Herbert from then on. He was married, twice, as William Herbert, did everything as William Herbert, died as William Herbert. Neither either of his wives nor his daughter knew he was ever anything else. Only after his death, when his birth cert was found, that it came to light that he had changed his name. When querying it with surviving brother, the story came out)
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I'm hoping that there isn't a sinister reason, I suppose with the stories of bigamy I'm a bit unsure of it all. i just don't know what is true and what is family gossip!
It seems like it was very easy in those days to call yourself what you wanted without any question!
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It seems like it was very easy in those days to call yourself what you wanted without any question!
It still is! ;D
Under English & Welsh Law, a person can call themselves anything they like - just as long as there is no intention to defraud or deceive.
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Have you got her birth certificate? Is it possible that she is Doris Veronica (in rememberance of her sister) and switched the names.
I have one who switched from being born Lily Norah to Norah Lily by the time she married (well she's on her father's service records as a baby as Nora so must have always been known by her middle name and as she grew up switched the names)
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Birth reg (replies #4 & #8) is just in the name of Doris. Doesnt mean that Veronica wasnt added as a middle name when she was a child, but she was not registered with a middle name.
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Sorry, I didn't realise there were any more replies.
I haven't got her birth certificate yet.
The death and marriage records are in the name of Veronica Doris. I've ordered a copy of the marriage certificate. I wanted to be certain of her parents name and thought that might be the best way of being sure.
Ali.
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She married and had a son called Kenneth Alvin Hart (born 1942.died approx 2001)
Hi Ali - there is a death registration for Kenneth Alvin Hart in the City of London, Nov 1995.
Birthdate given as 9 July 1942.
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Hi. Yes that's my Uncle. I've ordered his birth certificate as someone suggested to me it would show the name my nana was using at that time.
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I've just received the birth and marriage certificates this morning.
Kenneth's birth certificate doesn't name his father. He was born to Doris Hart (labourer at chemical factory) and living at 1 Lorne Street, Stockton on Tees. 9th July 1949. No maiden name so presuming unmarried.
Doris's marriage certificate in 1949 states her age as 26yrs, full name Veronica Doris Hart, spinster, 1 Lorne Street and father Thomas Hart, not MacAulay as she told us. She also told us she was born 1920 but her marriage certificate would date her 1923. Possibly a fib to hide her true age and having an illegitimate child at 18/19 years old maybe?
I'm going to speak with my Aunt again and start afresh!
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In 1915 a Thomas A styles married a Rose E Styles in w. Derby, could this be your Thomas Hart? Reason I ask is that a Veronica Hart was born 1923 in w.Derby mmn Styles.
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Thanks but I'm inclined to think that Derby doesn't fit, she said she was born in Jarrow but I don't know what to believe to be honest. Hart she told me was her mothers maiden name, she was brought up by her grandparents (Hart) because her mother died. I'm wondering if Thomas Hart named as her father on her marriage cert was actually her grandfather.
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She may have been confused when she was young about who her parents actually were if she and her brother Thomas ( b 1917) were brought up by grandparents. Maybe she thought they were actually her parents. I see Rebecca Macaulay's death registered age 24 in same quarter as Doris birth.
With the marriage taking place in Stockton and Rebecca's age it is easy to find them on 1911 census two years before marriage. Looks like Thomas died in 1962 age 74 reg Durham N E, so a fair chance of finding him in 1911 as well.
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Rebecca's death and Doris's birth do tie up. I'm not sure about Thomas (dad) dying in 1962, I found another person of the same name b.1888 d.1932. As far as I remember there was talk of him having a break down aftet Rebecca's death and being institutionalised.
i need to renew my subscription and look into this properly. Too much guess work on my part.
Thanks for the info. :-)
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Just found the 1932 death Middlesborough district - where his mother Margaret was from (according to 1901 census). The later one could be the Thomas registered same quarter in 1888 in Gateshead district.
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Given that she was of 1 Lorne Street both at Kenneth's birth and at her marriage, it would be worth trying to find electoral rolls or other info that would link her parents or grandparents to this address.
http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk has a snippet (you would need to pay to see full info) from WWI which suggests the Hart family may have been at that address for some time:
STOCKTON BOY AT ANTWERP. Stephen Hart, of 1, Lorne-street, Stockton. who enlisted in the Royal Naval Division eight weeks ago. in an interview' with a North Eastern...
It looks to me like Stephen would have been Rebecca MacAulay nee Hart's brother.
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It does appear that they could have lived there for a number of years. Thank you for that snippet, it's very much appreciated and I will definitely look into that further along with electoral rolls.
Disappointed that the marriage certificate didn't give the MacAulay surname for her father, I need to find a definite connection before I go any further with Thomas.
Thanks again.
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The newspaper cutting is the Daily gazette for Middlesborough dated 16 Oct 1914. It gives an account of the siege of Antwerp. Nothing more about the Hart family.
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Thank you. :)
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Stephen's service record is on FindMyPast. It confirms address as 1 Lorne Street and father as Thomas H. Hart. Definitely looks like Rebecca's brother
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I've just subscribed to findmypast so I'll have a look thank you.