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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: leemcm on Tuesday 25 November 14 23:49 GMT (UK)
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Hi folks. I could really use some help and advice to track down what happened to my 2G grandmother. Her name was Margaret Forbes, and was born around 1850. I believe that she spent most of her life in Tomintoul, and had a couple of illegitimate children; one of whom was my great-grandmother, Janet (Jessie) Forbes (illegitimate; 1891-1933). She also had a daughter, Christina McDonald (1878-1915) with a man called John McDonald. I assume she was married at some point to John.
I believe that her mother was Christina Cruickshank but, other than that, I have drawn a few blanks. I don't know when or where she died (or was born), what the story was with her parents and whether or not she had siblings - I have seen censuses with mentions of potential other children (Jemima Forbes and Alexander Stuart) but I don't know if this is the right record.
If anyone can help or provide advice as to how I can crack this mystery, I would be extremely grateful.
Many thanks!
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This is the 1901 entry for 98 Main St Kirkmichael
All children b Kirkmichael which was in the Tomintoul registration district
Margaret McDonald 50 b Huntly, Aberdeenshire (transcription shows age as 30)
Christina McDonald 22 dtr
Jessie Forbes 9 dtr dtr
Isabella I Imrie 12 boarder
Alexander MacDonald 2 grandson
Kirkmichael ED 1 Page 6 Line 3
Have you viewed the original image on Scotlands People to confirm Margaret's age and also that Christina was her daughter?
There is this 1891 entry for 35 Main St Kirkmichael
Christina Stewart 67 b Abernethy, Invernesshire
Margaret Forbes 43 dtr b Huntly, Aberdeenshire
Alexander Stewart 10 grandson b Tomintoul
Margaret Forbes 9 g/dtr b Tomintoul
John Watson 22 boarder b Morayshire
Kirkmichael ED 1 Page 6 Line 2
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This is the 1901 entry for 98 Main St Kirkmichael
One of the quirks of certain transcriptions is that they transcribe the address (in the left-hand column of the page) and completely disregard the information in the boxes at the top of the page. In this case, the top of the page would have told the transcriber that this is 98 Main Street, (village of) Tomintoul, (parish of) Kirkmichael.
All children b Kirkmichael which was in the Tomintoul registration district
Not quite. In 1855 the registration district was Kirkmichael, and it covered the whole of the parish of Kirkmichael, including the village of Tomintoul. From 1856 onwards, the parish was split into two registration districts, Kirkmichael and Tomintoul. So the registration district of Tomintoul was all in the parish of Kirkmichael, but there were parts of the parish/district of Kirkmichael which were not in the registration district of Tomintoul.
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This is the 1901 entry for 98 Main St Kirkmichael
All children b Kirkmichael which was in the Tomintoul registration district
Margaret McDonald 50 b Huntly, Aberdeenshire (transcription shows age as 30)
Christina McDonald 22 dtr
Jessie Forbes 9 dtr dtr
Isabella I Imrie 12 boarder
Alexander MacDonald 2 grandson
Kirkmichael ED 1 Page 6 Line 3
Have you viewed the original image on Scotlands People to confirm Margaret's age and also that Christina was her daughter?
There is this 1891 entry for 35 Main St Kirkmichael
Christina Stewart 67 b Abernethy, Invernesshire
Margaret Forbes 43 dtr b Huntly, Aberdeenshire
Alexander Stewart 10 grandson b Tomintoul
Margaret Forbes 9 g/dtr b Tomintoul
John Watson 22 boarder b Morayshire
Kirkmichael ED 1 Page 6 Line 2
Thank you very much for this. I assume that Christina Stewart must have died between the censuses, but I wonder why Margaret Forbes' name changed - unless she hadn't married by the time of the first census. I cannot find any mention of her birth on Scotlandspeople nor her death. It's a big mystery.
Any other suggestions anyone how I could find this out?
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This is the 1901 entry for 98 Main St Kirkmichael
One of the quirks of certain transcriptions is that they transcribe the address (in the left-hand column of the page) and completely disregard the information in the boxes at the top of the page. In this case, the top of the page would have told the transcriber that this is 98 Main Street, (village of) Tomintoul, (parish of) Kirkmichael.
All children b Kirkmichael which was in the Tomintoul registration district
Not quite. In 1855 the registration district was Kirkmichael, and it covered the whole of the parish of Kirkmichael, including the village of Tomintoul. From 1856 onwards, the parish was split into two registration districts, Kirkmichael and Tomintoul. So the registration district of Tomintoul was all in the parish of Kirkmichael, but there were parts of the parish/district of Kirkmichael which were not in the registration district of Tomintoul.
Thank you for this explanation. It really helps me understand how things worked back then with registration districts etc.
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Have you worked right back on all the censuses as best you can with the info available?
This for example, on top of the 1891 & 1901 from Carole, looks to be 1881 in Tomintoul:
Christina Stuart 60 b. Abernethy G, Inverness
Marg Forbes 33 b. Abernethy G, Inverness
Jemima Forbes daughter 11 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYPK-6HN
Alexr Stuart 6 son https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYYC-3B3
Christina McDonald 2 daughter (guessing to Margaret)
Christina Fraser 60 boarder b. G, Inverness
Address: 12 & 13 The Square
Monica
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Just picking up on the new child, Jemima. For 1871, there is this entry:
Donald Stuart 76 pauper b. Strathdon, Aberdeenshire
Christina Stuart 48 wife b. Abernethy, invernessshire
Alexander Stuart 11 son b. Tomintoul, Banffshire https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYYC-3WL
Peter Stuart 8 son b. Tomintoul, Banffshire https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYYC-S5R
Grace Ross/e 7 boarder b. Tomintoul, Banffshire ? maybe https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYPK-D96
Jemima Forbes 1 boarder b. Tomintoul, Banffshire
Address: Street, Tomintoul
Relationships and names etc, as they do when families are like this, can get confusing a little :-\ Guessing Margaret may have in service somewhere nearby and daughter Jemima being taken care off by her mother?
Cannot see the marriage of Donald and Christina in either the OPRs or statutory registers on family search. Best place to check for originals is always Scotlands People. The birth entry of son Peter should include the date and place of parents' marriage...if they were married.
Monica
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1861 for the Stuarts has this entry:
Donald Stuart 61
Christian Stuart 35
James Stuart 10
John Stuart 7 ? maybe https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XB3D-SV3
Robert Henry Stewart 5 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYYC-33X
Alexander Stewart 1
Address: Main Street, Tomintoul
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OK...just working through more censuses :P
I think this is them in 1851, with Margaret with them:
Donald Stuart 52 b. Strathdon, aberdeen
Christina Stuart 29 b. Abernethy, inverness
Margaret Stuart 3 b. Old Marchar, Aberdeenshire
James Stuart 4 Months b. Abernethy, inverness
Address: Bualgorm, Abernethy and Kincardine, Inverness
So, likely Christina had Margaret before she married, or she was married to a Forbes before her marriage to Donald Stuart.
Just found that there are lots of lovely family trees on a/try for the Stuart line. You can access them if you have a subs to a/try or via a library link if you have one available. One tree here for example: http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/10596824/person/-579009729?ssrc= or here http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/5264647/person/-214373673?ssrc= Nice photo there of Peter, who we think might be Margaret's half brother.
Monica
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OK...just working through more censuses :P
I think this is them in 1851, with Margaret with them:
Donald Stuart 52 b. Strathdon, aberdeen
Christina Stuart 29 b. Abernethy, inverness
Margaret Stuart 3 b. Old Marchar, Aberdeenshire
James Stuart 4 Months b. Abernethy, inverness
Address: Bualgorm, Abernethy and Kincardine, Inverness
So, likely Christina had Margaret before she married, or she was married to a Forbes before her marriage to Donald Stuart.
Just found that there are lots of lovely family trees on a/try for the Stuart line. You can access them if you have a subs to a/try or via a library link if you have one available. One tree here for example: http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/10596824/person/-579009729?ssrc= or here http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/5264647/person/-214373673?ssrc= Nice photo there of Peter, who we think might be Margaret's half brother.
Monica
Hi
Thanks a lot for this information. Very helpful. Still can't find her birth record of death but this will get me a lot closer. Sadly I don't have access to those links :'( I don't know if you can attach the pics etc...? If not, no worries. Your help is greatly appreciated!!!!
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All, I'm trying to find information on both ancestors and descendants of Adam Forbes (1822 - 1870) and Christian (Christina) Cruickshank (1823 - 1904). Christina died in Tomintoul, and I believe that she is my 3G Great Grandmother. I think I'm descended from one of her children, Margaret Forbes, but I'm finding it hard to find information because Margaret seems to have had several illegitimate children, and Christian appears to have remarried someone called Donald Stuart after Adam died and had children with him.
Any information would be greatly appreciated!!
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Donald Stuart and Christian Cruickshank had four children born in the parish of Kirkmichael, Banffshire before Adam Forbes died: Robert Henry 1856; Alexander 1860; Peter 1863 and Christina 1870, and the census of 1861 includes several more (older) children whose baptisms are not in the surviving church registers. Therefore the Christian Cruickshank who was the wife of Donald Stuart was not the one who also married Adam Forbes.
If indeed there ever was such a marriage. Adam Forbes, aged 48, died in 1870 in Chapel of Garioch, Aberdeenshire, unmarried. There is a marriage of Adam Forbes to Helen Cruickshank in Chapel of Garioch in 1821, and their son Adam was baptised in Chapel of Garioch in 1822.
So it looks to me as if you need to start again with Margaret Forbes. What definite (i.e. backed up by original documents) information do you have about Margaret?
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So it looks to me as if you need to start again with Margaret Forbes. What definite (i.e. backed up by original documents) information do you have about Margaret?
Not to duplicate efforts here's a previous post from leemcm
Threads merged.
I could really use some help and advice to track down what happened to my 2G grandmother. Her name was Margaret Forbes, and was born around 1850
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Lee, in your original thread you said you 'assumed' that Margaret Forbes was married at some point to John McDonald. It is never safe to 'assume' anything. Have you looked for that marriage on Scotland's People?
I wonder why Margaret says in 1881 that she was born in Abernethy, but in 1891 and 1901 that she was born in Huntly?
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Thanks for the replies. So I have a birth record for Margaret, which records her birth and baptism in Huntly. I also have her marrying a John McDonald and then a death certificate for her in 1938. Interestingly, both her marriage and death certificates cite Christina as being her mother, but the marriage certificate has her father's name as Edward Forbes (presumably a mistake) and there is no father's name on her death certificate. Her death is registered by her daughter, Margaret Forbes.
I previously tried to find the birth details but drew a blank, hence my post from a few years ago. Because of all of the illegitimate children, the marriage dates and the various surnames, it's quite complicated to piece together! My great grandmother is Margaret's daughter, Jessie (also known as Janet) Forbes.
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Not to duplicate efforts here's a previous post from leemcm
Threads merged.
Lee, in your original thread you said you 'assumed' that Margaret Forbes was married at some point to John McDonald. It is never safe to 'assume' anything. Have you looked for that marriage on Scotland's People?
Yes, that post was from a few years ago. I have the marriage certificate. Indeed because of the fact that Huntly and Abernethy have been quoted, I'm not sure if I'm mixing up people with the same or similar names. I've attached her marriage certificate. I know that she had a daughter called Christina McDonald, who was Jessie's half sister.
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Interesting. I wonder what happened to John McDonald.
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John doesn't show on the 1911 census and it states that Margaret is widowed. Trying to find a John McDonald would be like a needle in a haystack!
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Indeed it would.
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Lee, I think you have the most relevant info now on Margaret. Looking back over the last thread linked here and your addition of the OPR christening entry for Margaret now.
It is a pity that the christening entry is missing one key word, 'natural' daughter. I do however think you have enough material now to be satisfied that your Margaret was the illegitimate daughter of Adam Forbes Jnr and Christina Cruickshanks. As Forfarian mentions here, this Adam Forbes remained unmarried up to his death. You have his parents's details and OPR birth entry. Also, www.findagrave.com/memorial/148737604/adam-forbes
You also have Christina's first marriage to Donald Stuart from the OPRs and entries from censuses up to Donald's death. You then have a number of further census entries with widowed Christina and daughter Margaret. As you know, there are a number of illegitimate children for Margaret, but they have been straightforward to find birth details on.
Margaret showed as a spinster when she married John McDonald in 1887. He either left her or died. What's the marital status for Margaret in the later censuses?
Who reported Christina's death in 1904?
Monica
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You also have Christina's first marriage to Donald Stuart from the OPRs and entries from censuses up to Donald's death. You then have a number of further census entries with widowed Christina and daughter Margaret. As you know, there are a number of illegitimate children for Margaret, but they have been straightforward to find birth details on.
Margaret showed as a spinster when she married John McDonald in 1887. He either left her or died. What's the marital status for Margaret in the later censuses?
Who reported Christina's death in 1904?
Monica
Yes I have some of the info - it's more that I'm trying to piece it together, and hope that a similar descendant who has some information may be able to shed some light if they happen to see this post - but that might be expecting too much!
Do you know of a way of reviewing the OPRs other than in Scotland's People? As you've suggested that the info is easy enough to find, the only way I can think of would be to either pay for various attempts on the SP website or spend a day at Register House in Edinburgh.
Incidentally, Christina's death was registered by 'A. Stuart - Son', and I think that he must be Alexander Stuart.
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Scotlands People is the only source of original and complete material. Even if you are lucky to find entries in the Family Search indexes, unfortunately, they are only brief indexes and you miss out on the full entries.
If you can get a day at one of the main genealogy centres, that would be a great way of reviewing all the possible entries.
Monica
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Do you know of a way of reviewing the OPRs other than in Scotland's People? As you've suggested that the info is easy enough to find, the only way I can think of would be to either pay for various attempts on the SP website or spend a day at Register House in Edinburgh.
There are various libraries which have microfilm copies of the Old Parish Registers, including Elgin Library, Aberdeen Public Library and the Aberdeen and North-East Scotland Family History Society. There may also be copies at the North-East Scotland Library Service HQ at Oldmeldrum, and the Scottish Genealogy Society in Edinburgh.
Or, if you are not able to get to any of those, you can arrange to rent the films at a Latter Day Saints Family History Centre for a small fee.
However if you can get to the Scotland's People Centre in Edinburgh, or one of the local archives with a link to it, you can see not only the OPRs but also the statutory records of births, deaths and marriages which you cannot see anywhere else.
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Thanks all. I have a day off tomorrow for the bank holiday so might go to Register House and see what I can find.
I appreciate you all taking the time to give me advice.
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Better check that they are not closed for the bank holiday too.
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Better check that they are not closed for the bank holiday too.
Indeed! I looked on the website and there's nothing to say that it's closed, and they're taking seat reservations for tomorrow as well.
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That is great. Have a good day there if you decide to go.
Monica