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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kildare => Topic started by: aggiebagwash on Saturday 02 July 05 19:39 BST (UK)
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Has anyone access to any church records for Naas? I am looking for the birth/marriage of Arthur Moneypenny and Frances Kelly circa 1840-1860. It appears that they moved to Donnybrook (Is that in or around Dublin?) where some of their children were born before moving to England.
Thanking you in anticipation ;)
Margaret
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HI,
Naas catholic parish records are available only in the National library. Do you know the religion?
Donnybrook is southside Dublin.
Kate
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Hi Kate
Sorry I didn't reply earlier but I have been on holiday. All I know is the following:
Arthur Moneypenny (Plasterer) married Francis Jane Kelly 1850 in Donnybrook.
Arthur was the son of James Moneypenny and Margaret Hyland.
I know Arthur was born in Naas and I suspect that Francis was born in County Roscommon.
They came to England around 1860. The family were Catholics.
I would love to find their marriage details i.e Francis' father's name and any witnesses. If you know anyway I could find more information about either family please let me know.
Regards Mags :)
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hi Margaret
Do you have information on the Moneypenny's of Armagh at all? I know my great grandad was born in NI around 1809 but that's all I know! I'm sure he had brothers too who went with him to Liverpool but I'm struggling to find anything on them.
If you have any info, I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Lynne
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Hi,
The majority of MONEYPENNY households in the Griffith valuation were in Armagh (1864). There were none in Dublin (1851-3), Kildare (1851) or Roscommon (1857-8). The rest were in Down (1863-4), Cavan (1856-7), Antrim - Belfast city (1861-2) and Kilkenny (1849-50). Where was your guy?
Try this Roscommon website http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/index.shtml and this great site of newspaper transcriptions http://www.irelandoldnews.com/
To find information from the Naas baptismal records, you have to get a researcher in Ireland to go to the National Library.
There are lots of Irish moneypennys in the UK census 1861 - 1901. I see your guy in Salford and presumeably his son Frances too?
Kate
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My great grandfather Arthur Moneypenny did live in Salford but I don't think it's the one you are referring to. They lived in Broughton and Cheetham, Manchester. All his sons died either as babies or young children. He had 5 daughters and my Mum remembers her great aunts clearly. I will have to see if I can find some more information about them to try and pinpoint exactly where they came from.
Thanks Kate will be in touch if I do find anymore about them.
Margaret :)
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Hi All,
Here are some of the Co. Down Moneypennys.
If there is more than one should it be Moneypence? 8)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/M/MoaMon.htm
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Ha, Ha!
Thanks Christopher. Still searching for the elusive parents.
Regards
Margaret :D
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Hello Margaret,
Have you looked at Iain Moneypenny's Blog and Family History ???
www.moneypenny.org.uk
Christopher
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Hi Christopher
Thanks for the link will email him and see if the two families are linked. Much appreciated.
Margaret :)
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Hi Margaret
I have come across your excellent research via my task following the Byrnes, particularly Frank Byrne (formerly Secretary of the Land League).
Going down the tree, which you probably have already discovered; Arthur and Frances gave birth to Mary Ann in 1854. She married Frank Byrne at some unknown time, apparently in Donnybrook, though I cannot confirm that. My search for this marriage oddly leads inexplicably to the Indiana Marriage Records (US) without any actual material provided.
Frank and Mary in turn had two children. Frances and Francis Patrick (1879 and 1881). After Frank and Mary had fled to the US, they moved about, settling finally in Providence on a street which had been gutted by an urban renewal project in the sixties. They both passed in 1894, leaving behind I believe a few sibling each in New York.
I have never been able to trace the trails of the younger two.
I hope this anecdotal tidbit is somehow at least entertaining.
Thanks
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I wonder is this lady a sister of Frances
Maria Anna Kelly dtr of Michael and Marie Kelly married James Purcell in St Nicholas 20th Feb 1862.
Winess Arthur Moneypenny and Maria Carton.
A Richard Kelly was married to an Elizabeth Carton
they had a son baptised 1858 Michael Joseph and his sponsor was Arthur Moneypenny.
from Irish Genealogy church records.
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3 burials on Glasnevin Trust you may want to check out
James Moneypenny age 17 in 1839
James Moneypenny age 62 in 1863
Margaret Moneypenny age 5 in 1863
The name dose'nt seem to appear in the index other than this time period.
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The following all appear on Irish Genealogy as Manypeny/Manypenny baptisms in St Mary
Marcella 1852 dtr of Anthony and Frances (fathers name may be mistranscribed)
Mary Anne 1854 of Arthur and Frances
Edward 1856
Margaret Jane 1858 may be the 5yr old in Glasnevin 1863
Catherine 1860
Jas Ignatius 1864
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I've got the marriage for Francis Byrne and Mary Ann Monnypenny 3rd quarter 1876 in Ashton Under Lyne not in Ireland as you suspected. I don't understand why she married there as her family lived 8 miles away. The odd thing is that they married at the Register Office and I know the Moneypenny's were devout Catholics.
My Mother knew all the other children from the marriage of Arthur and Frances. I visited Marcella's grave last year but sadly there was no gravestone.
Do you know where Frances and Francis Patrick Byrne were born?
Margaret
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Hi dathai
Thank you for the data on the Moneypenny's I'm sure I can use it to research further.
I've found all the children born to Arthur and Frances and my great grandmother was their youngest child.
It appears that all the boys died very young. I'm almost sure that Edward had a twin called James but I can't access my records at the moment because they are boxed up. James Ignatiuis (1864) died when he was 7. Sadly all the Moneypenny records I found on the original IGI twenty years ago have disappeared on the new website along with many more for other branches of my family.
Margaret :)
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Margret,
I have the birth of Frances Mary as being Ireland, 1877. (Dublin South Vol 12 pg 627 FHL# 101054) This is given on the 1881 Census at Lambeth. She arrived in the US about 1886, three years after her parents did, staying with them until 1894, the year they both passed from long-endured illnesses. She married Llewellyn Huston 24 Sept 1908 at nearby Newton MA. She passed away from Chorio Epithelioma 2 April of 1909. I am not sure if she had any children.
Francis Patrick J was born Sept 20 1880 at Lambeth (Q4 Lambeth Id 378). He was naturalized in the US 1901, registered from Chicago for the WW1 draft, and was married at 5 Feb 1944 to Louise Buhmeier Weight. I do not have a date of death, though they show up in 1950s in Memphis.
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I think the Francis & Louise Byrne you see in Memphis may be a different couple. The couple is married and in Memphis in the 1940 census, and Francis appears to be born about 1896. His burial is here - http://www.rootschat.com/links/0138h/
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Thanks Shelly. You are right. The Memphis connection is wrong. I've been trying to find him in Chicago, as he worked for the railways, without luck.
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Try this: http://browning.evcpl.lib.in.us/
Click on the Standard Search button on the left of that site, and then search for Frank Byrne. There is a result with a date of death of Wednesday, June 16, 1948. The card lists his wife as Louise and says he was born in London, England.
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Shelly thank you very much. If I can confirm that he is the son of Mary moneypenny, I've hit as recent as I want to intrude. I appreciate it.
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Margaret,
I am reviving this once more in case you are available.
When Frank and Mary Byrne left for America in 1883 under threat of arrest, they left their children behind in care of one of her sisters (I am searching for that source. It was in a newspaper. Probably London Times 1883). This presumably is the same sister who was interrogated by the British with Mary regarding the Cavendish murders. Immediately after this interrogation Mary fled to France to meet her husband. The (two) children in turn did not come over to NY until about 1886, after which there is a good trail. My confusion is that during the trial it was reported a few times (maybe incorrectly) that she was pregnant while carrying over the weapons used in the attack to Dublin. There are inconsistencies with this timing. I am wondering had you come upon a third child of Mary Byrne (Moneypenny) who appears in a sister's family inexplicably. Or was it another sister carrying child (Marcella would have been the likely in age)?
Many thanks for your time reading this. I have still not made the connection I thought would exist of Frank to Terence Byrne, the Fenian. I am however completely absorbed with what must have been a tough existence for the young family that Mary had to keep together.
Niall
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Hi,
Frank and Mary Byrne's son Frank married Fannie Wilson. They lived in Chicago and show up in 1910 census. There is another Frank Byrne in Chicago in the 1900 census with wife Mary daughter Mary and son Frank. Causes some confusion. Frank and Fannie were my grandparents. PM me any time.
I am confused why the death card at http://browning.evcpl.lib.in.us/ lists Louise as his wife. I'm checking to see if that was indeed Fannie's real name. Everything else on the card is correct.
Frank
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family search
http://www.familysearch.org
Athur Moneypenny born 1805 in Newry
son James Ignatius Moneypenny born in 17.4.1864 om Donnybrook Dublin
there was a famine in Kildare in 1839-1845
http://www.kildare.ie
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Only one records on findmypast;
Eliza Moneypenny;
Death 1897-aged 60
Reg District- Naas
County-Kildare
(corrected)
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Only one records on findmypast;
Eliza Moneypenny;
Death 1837-aged 60
Reg District- Naas
County-Kildare
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should that year not read 1897
Edited to add Link
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05849/4657439.pdf
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Immediately after this interrogation Mary fled to France to meet her husband. The (two) children in turn did not come over to NY until about 1886, after which there is a good trail. My confusion is that during the trial it was reported a few times (maybe incorrectly) that she was pregnant while carrying over the weapons used in the attack to Dublin. There are inconsistencies with this timing. I am wondering had you come upon a third child of Mary Byrne (Moneypenny) who appears in a sister's family inexplicably. Or was it another sister carrying child (Marcella would have been the likely in age)?
There is a lengthy newspaper article entitled "Arrival and release of Mrs F Byrne"The Express Saturday February 24 1883
Arrested in London and brought back to Dublin for interrogation it goes on to say 'Mrs Byrne, only 25 years old has a young family of three children, the youngest being a boy of eight or nine months old.....' Four or five weeks ago, because of his health Mr Frank Byrne left England for Cannes. Not having his address she could not communicate with him............