RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: HarrisonHart on Friday 28 November 14 21:52 GMT (UK)
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Rookie mistake. A year or 2 ago, I found a few documents that identified my Granny, her sister, and her parents. These included Baptismal records for my Granny and her sister... I can't find them. Because at the time, there was a birth date discrepancy which meant I 'may' have been looking at the wrong family - I did not record where these documents were online. I've just found out I WAS looking at the right family. Can't now find the baptism records.
I've tried looking at ancestry.co.uk, GenesReunited, familysearch, findmypast... where else could they be? Kicking myself HARD.
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Whereabouts in Lancs - was it Liverpool? Ancestry has those.
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http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcmarriages/
http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcbaptisms/
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I don't think that's a Rookie error, or if it is I've never learnt - sort of thing I do all the time. As the others have said, Liverpool has them on line but in the more rural areas they may not be.
Could you have googled the name of the village when you found them originally? I ask because I was trying to find RC records for Ince Blundell recently, near Liverpool but not in the Ancestry collection. When I googled I found the GenUKi page about the village and within it was a link to the chapel marriages which I couldn't find anywhere else. If they had it for one, perhaps for others?
Might be worth a try - good luck
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Try this one for Manchester Baptisms
http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/data/catholic_search.php
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You could try lan-opc.org.uk
They do have some Catholic baptisms.
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As others have said Ancestry has Liverpool RC records this is the baptism search page:-
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2180
Blue
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The family were back and forth between Much Woolton and Garston in the 1890s and 1900s. I've managed to find one document, the marriage of my great grandparents. I think my Granny Annie was born in Garston in 1897. I am not sure if Mary was born in Garston, Woolton, St Helens... I know Maria (great gran) was born in Woolton, and great grandad says he was from Roscommon Ireland.
Great grandparents catholic marriage transcript:
Name: Thomam Hart
Marriage Date: 17 Feb 1890
Parish: Sacred Heart
Father's Name: Joannis Hart
Spouse Father's Name: Thomae Cannon
Spouse: Mariam Cannon
What does "Parish: Sacred Heart" Mean?
The documents I cant find, that I recall for certain are:
- 1891 Census
- Baptism record for Mary Hart (Daughter of Thomas and Maria)
- Possibly Baptism record of Maria Cannon (Her mothers name was Mary from memory, strangely her father was not noted, and may have been recorded as bastard child of mary. yet on their marriage record, her father is recorded as Thomas Cannon)
The documents I have found already are here:
harrisonmccrystal.wordpress.com/hart/annie-1897-1981/ (http://harrisonmccrystal.wordpress.com/hart/annie-1897-1981/)
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Sacred Heart as in the RC church of that name and its parish:-
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Kensington/index.html
Blue
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Hmm I'm not sure why people from Woolton (or garston) would go to Kensington to get married.
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It isn't any great distance, and perhaps was the most suitable RC church available at the time.
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True, and their witnesses have addresses in garston.
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The image of the marriage entry you have put a link to shows that both bride and groom have given addresses in Upper Dalton Street. It was usual for the marriage to take place in the bride's parish church, ie. the church which was designated as the one serving the immediate area where she was living at the time. I can find a Dalton Street in the area for Sacred Heart parish on a 1901 map. Do you know where Upper Dalton Street was ? I would assume it must be in the same immediate area. Unless you know otherwise ?
Joney
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I found reference to an Upper Dalton Street here but I am not sure what to do with the corresponding details, to find out where it was. Its from 1851
http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/Streets1851/StreetsU.htm
I am *so* frustrated right now. For the life of me I can't find the 1891 census of Thomas and Maria (which I know exists), I can't find any of the catholic baptisms which I know exist because it was my first experience with Latin. ??? :'(
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I'm going to repost in the lookup request section and try to find these documents. I can't explain how miserable I feel!
My Grandmother Annie died in 1981 (I was 2 yrs old).
3 years ago when I asked my dad and surviving paternal aunty about Granny, the only things they knew was that
1) She had a sister called Mary, and
2) although they (grannies kids) had all been born and raised in Garston, granny got occasional visitors from Woolton.
Granny had industrial deafness from working in the Bobbin Works from she was very young. She didn't have complex conversations with her kids.
I looked through family documents and all I found was newspaper clippings of her obituaries. These (written by her children) all stated she was 87 when she died in 1981... meaning she was born c1894
I couldn't find a family with siblings Mary (older) and Annie (younger) that fit granny being born c1894, anywhere in Lancashire. But I did find a family that fit granny being born c1897. Thomas Hart, Maria (nee Cannon) Hart, and Daughters Mary and Annie. But I thought it was not provably my family due to the birth date discrepancy.
Then I put aside grannies family for a couple of yrs. This week in the mail I got granny and grandads certificate of marriage. And low and behold Grannies father *is* Thomas Hart AND granny is aged 22 in 1919 - meaning she was born c1897, not c1894. ARGH!
But why can I not find these documents about grannies family that I found so easily 2-3 years ago? (or found by luck).
My frustration level is 15 out of 10 :-\ . OK vent over. I truely appreciate everyones replies and leads. I've tried using the leads given.
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This is just a quick starter, I'll try and do more later.
There's an Ann Hart birth registered in West Derby in 1897, Q1, Vol 8b P 652. West Derby reg district does include Garston. It's a possibility, Annie may have been her name with Ann as her formal registration.
As your last piece of definite information was in 1922, I'd try working back from there starting with the 1911 census.
Hope to get back later - good luck!
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I really couldn't resist!
I found this, 8 years before Annie's marriage;
Thomas 52 , Maria 49, Maria 18, Anna 14 living in Dingle Vale, Garston.
Looks like them. If so, start taking them back from there one step at a time. I've found it really difficult sometimes to dive into the earlier information, it's often easier to trace back from the last thing you definitely know.
P.S. having managed to type Garstang throughout instead of Garston, I think I've corrected them all now. If I missed any - it should read Garston
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Maggie - Garstang is by Preston ( not being sarcastic - I know you mean Garston ,but you keep posting Garstang - no offence )
Garston is a dock area in Liverpool - it was Lancashire until 1906 when it became a part of Liverpool.
My Birth Certificate states Wavertree - Garston is encompassed into Wavertree for births on Lancsbmd
Ann Hart 1897 on Lancsbmd states Wavertree - so 99% sure she is a Garston birth
St Austin Church in Garston - a RC church built in 1838 and is still a popular church ...why didn`t she marry there ?...I can only think that in those days couples used to give the same address to save Banns being posted in both parish churches if a couple lived 7 miles apart ...so probably a money thing ....
Hiya Angie - hows your dad doing ??...plenty of his mates here asking about him xxxxx
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P.S. I just removed the reference numbers for that record. This is because I've been off the board for a while, but remember there were copyright issues around one census. I'm assuming that with that particular year now available from more than one source, that no longer applies - could someone confirm? Thanks
RootsChat is playing safe and still not allowing disclosure of any information from the 1911 census! RC can't afford the legal bills if BrightSolid decide to sue?!
But you can post anything found in a free index? ;D
I don't have a current subscription to FindMyPast or 1911census.co.uk or GenesReunited, so I do post names from the 1911 census I find on them ;D
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Thank you both. Garstang / Garston. Apologies Garstonite, you're quite right! That'll teach me to post in a hurray. Subliminal I suppose from my own Preston records, didn't even realised I'd done that.
And K Garrad, thanks for the information because I only remembered the copyright issue later. Good to know
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THANKYOU EVERYONE!
Dad is doing good Garstonite - had a big reminiscing afternoon and a few beers as I turned myself bat-crazy trying to find my family records online and bugged him with lots of questions. I wish I could type everything he has to say - you'd love it! Today he was telling me about watching South Liverpool Football Club play a barefoot Nigeria team at holly park about 70 years ago. And how the woodcutters band would march down vulcan street, then king street, stop at all the pubs for a pint, and finally get to holly park and play against ?? south liverpool. It was called a comic match or something like that.
OK my dramas are partly resolved, well no not resolved but I feel a bit better!
I have on my granny Annie (working backwards):
My granny and grandads marriage in 1919
The 1911 Census of Thomas, Maria, Mary, and Anna/Annie in Garston
The 1901 Census of Thomas, Maria, Mary, and Annie in Much Woolton
The 1890 Marriage of Thomas and Maria in Kensington (Sacred Heart)
And I found (I think) Thomas's birth/baptism in Castlerea, Roscommon, Ireland, and his parents marriage!! (and his parents names lol). (hence why I feel better!!).
Still missing
The 1891 Census of Thomas and Maria, I think they were living in Much Woolton then too.
Marias Baptism, in Woolton.
Marys Baptism (cant recall where).
As to why they married in Kensington. One possible answer is at the time, St Francis of Assisi the actual church was not available, and instead the parishioners were meeting in an old church hall of another denomination. So they might have selected another church so they could get married in the chapel.
And their address - apparently the bride had to reside in the catchment area of the church? It may have been a very temporary address..
So I have achieved something super cool today - my grandmas fathers place of birth and parents. Back to his birth in 1859 and his parents wedding in Roscommon in 1857. Happy with that. Now to find my grandmas mothers details.
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Oh PS not sure if I mentioned it. Today I asked the General Registry Office to try to find my grannys birth certificate. I didn't have the reference numbers so just gave them the year, and her parents names. Hopefully they find it. I should have it in about 2-3 weeks if so.
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Good memory your dad - ....South Liverpool celebrated their first game under FLOODLIGHTS - when they they played Nigeria about 1957 as I remember ....
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good old Wikipedia, just found this:
In September 1949, Holly Park hosted the first match in the UK to be played under "permanent" floodlights, a friendly against a Nigerian XI (the first Nigerian side to tour the UK). The match was covered for BBC Overseas Service (now World Service) by Kenneth Wolstenholme, who would later earn fame for his commentary on the World Cup final of 1966.[3] The final score was 2-2, with the official attendance 13,007.