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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: jennywren001 on Sunday 30 November 14 14:26 GMT (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
I'm wondering does anyone know if number 5 Broadsea was at the end closer to Fraserburgh or the other end. Also, was it on the beach side or on the opposite side of the street. My 3xGG father George Noble lived there until he died in 1877 and no doubt his father Andrew before him.
Thanks
Jen
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Hi,
The 1869 25" OS map of Fraserburgh (http://maps.nls.uk/view/74479967) shows Broadsea as a single street to the west of the town.
Street numbering would normally start with lower numbers closer to a town centre, and with odd numbers to the left of the street. If this convention was used, No5 would be on the landward side of the road.
Regards
Istrice
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Thanks Istrice,
I've read so much conflicting information about these houses and thought if I could work out roughly where it was I could see what is standing there now.
Jen
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Hi Jen
The areas you will be most interested in will be Main, and Noble Streets which comprise mainly single storey, ex fishermens cottages, with a scattering of small industrial buildings near the Noble Street end.
If you can get a copy via your local Library, I'm sure you will find the "Christian Watt Papers" an interesting read. This lady was born in Broadsea in 1833, and her memoirs tell the story of her own life and the history of her family. They also give an insight into the lives of fishing families in the area in the latter half of the 19th century.
The attached site address may be able to provide you with more information re the Broadsea area. (http://www.fraserburghheritage.com/default.asp?page=43)
Regards
Istrice
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Hi Istrice,
Thanks for the link. I've got a copy of Christian Watt's memoirs but I wouldn't mind getting my hands on her original manuscripts! And like Christian my George marries a Sim from Pittulie not once but twice!
Jen
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Jen, from the same link by Istrice, there is this map drawing...checking it transfers over as a link... www.fraserburghheritage.com/default.asp?page=101 YAY! It worked!
Monica
Added: main link I used here www.fraserburghheritage.com/default.asp?page=14 Also, see what they mean in the reference to the number of listed buildings for the area...a lot! www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/scotland/aberdeenshire/fraserburgh
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Have you seen this old post on Nobles of Broadsea? www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=68819.0
Monica
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Hi Monica,
That hand drawn map is GREAT number 5 is very clear. I've looked at the thread on RootChat but my George is a 'Bobbins' Noble and I'm pretty sorted with his family and trying desperately to stick to the direct line although he had an interesting second wife. Writing up my Fraser branch currently, what a task but almost done before a hard edit. It's only for the family but wanted to say something about number 5 as it came down from father to son.
Jen
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I thought the map was great too. Wouldn't it be something if every villlage had these types of drawings and records :)
Haven't had any need to look at the site before for my lines but I thought www.fraserburghheritage.com was a brilliantly put together site.
Monica
PS: Don't know what a 'Bobbins' Noble is...but I know you do ;)
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Monica, "Bobbins" is probably his tee name.
flst
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Thank flst :) Makes sense now. Not used to working with the t'names!
Monica
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Numbers 3 and 5 Broadsea Road are on Google Maps street view.
Regards
Malky
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Sorry, Monica should have said about the 'tee' names they were new to me before the Nobles. Must mention, at the Fraserburgh site Istrice first mentioned there's fab photograph of two women knitting at the shore line with boats in the background - downloaded and now framed on my wall!
Thanks Malky do you think that is 5 Broadsea of old? On the 1881 census (only) the house is listed as 5 Noble Street, Broadsea - on other census it's just 5 Broadsea.
Jen
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Hi to Jen (and all others!)
I'm a descendant of George Noble "Bobbins" (He is my 4th G Grandfather.) through Jane, his daughter (Who married George Shankey Noble) and William Sim Noble (his grandson) all mentioned in George Bobbins Noble's will.
So we are distant cousins.
I am trying to work my way through the Noble family too.
Any help and advice, cross referencing, etc, is most welcome, and happily offered in return.
Best wishes,
Austin
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Hi Austin and welcome to Rootschat,
George is my 4th (not 3rd!) Great grandfather and I'm descended from his son William who married Ann Thain in 1846. As you will be aware the Nobles and the Taylors of Broadsea have had considerable attention paid to them in genealogy circles. I found the Taylor spreadsheet a useful starting point to get my head around the seemingly endless number of Nobles marrying Taylors.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jillian.malcolmson/taylor_spreadsheet.htm
This is my mother's maternal side and I've been pretty ruthless at keeping to the direct line only. No exploration of siblings etc...I've not gone any further back than the parents of George and his first wife Barbara Sim. Having said that happy to share anything of interest to you.
I'm pretty confident what I have is correct although the evidence I'm privy to pointing to the parents of Barbara Sim is pretty slim. All I have is her age and place of birth from the 51 census, and a witness from her son William's birth record in 1827. This lead me to a 1802 birth with parents William Sim and Rebecca Ritchie which may of course be totally erroneous :)
Jen
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Hi Jen,
I have located some great info on the Bobbins and Shankie Nobles. News articles, valuation records and other bits. Some of it helps to clear up potential mis-aligned lines, so to speak, and some opens other, more confusing, avenues...
I'm guessing that you are on ancestry. Is it permitted to link to a tree there? With that I can more easily share the info I have garnered thusfar.
One thing I loved, having begun to get to grips with tee-names (also written as to-names in one old book I found) was that the valuation records feature them which when scanning an official documentary record makes for moments of humour amidst the bureaucratically banal recording of information.
Best wishes,
Austin
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Hi Austin,
I think it's permitted to post a link to a tree on Ancesstree...would love a moment of humour in this family.
Jen
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Hi Jen,
Erm, not sure how to post a link to the tree, but if you search for either username 'stilbucket'
(without quotes) or for the tree name which is:- Being a true account of the various families of De Brou, Morrice, Kidd, Edwards, Noble and more
one of those options should bring it up. Of course we can correspond through there also and images I have uploaded/located are to be found there. I must admit I have yet to update all the humourous stuff, and must warn you that there are tragedies too.
warm regards,
Austin
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Hi Austin
Your a/try tree is showing up as private here http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/pt/RequestTreeAccess.aspx?tid=5715105&pid=-1410130512
Monica
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Hi Monica,
Please feel free to request access. I keep it private to protect media, and other matters relating to family,(mostly from google!) but am quite happy to share access with fellow researchers. Particularly cousins :)
warm regards,
Austin
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Hello all,
So I took advantage of the free searches available, on Scotland's People, of the 1865 Valuation Records. This encouraged me to buy the full images relevant to the principle street of Broadsea. I have transcribed the names of each person listed, the number of their house (1-77 including all the 'halves') and their Tee Names. Where Tee names are repeated, indicating familial connections I have coloured that row (This is a table) and where the names are suggestive of further connections then the colour selected is a shade off. For example, the Noble "Bood" and Noble "Young Bood" families are just one shade removed in my highlighting.
I have encountered some handwriting with which I struggled. It is unclear to me if one family Tee Name is Jume/June or Sime. In that instance I have written all options that seem likely, separated by a /
Similarly with Rox/Rose. One name I really struggled with is either Loy, Boy, Coy, or Goy. Sorry to not be immensely talented, or well-enough informed. If we can reach a consensus then I can update the transcription. I imagine it would be searchable.
Having said all that, I just hope that the attachment attaches successfully and may be of use/amusement to someone.
warm regards,
Austin
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Hi Austin,
Many thanks for sharing this I'm sure many people will find it REALLY useful. Unfortunately, I don't have a subscription to an_stry so can't see your tree :(
If you post a snip of the difficult handwriting I'm sure someone here can help with transcribing.
Monica, just had a look back at SP at the embarrassing number of death certificates I downloaded in 2009 for William Nobles before I found the husband of Ann Thain :-[ Hopefully, I've learned a lot since then....
Jen
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Hi Jen, I think I can send an invite to an email address for you. I'm aware of the sensitive nature of posting an email address, and would counsel against it, but are you able to message me via ancestry? You can sign up for free, I think, giving you a username. From there I can invite yo via a username. Alternately, if you locate me through facebook and PM me an email address, then I can send you an invite, and I guess that you could PM me through here too. Just occurred to me!
Best wishes,
Austin
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Austin, you are right...always clever to be careful with your data etc where it brings in details that are personal and relevant.
We have a Private Message service here on RC. This is the only way to exchange personal emails really. PMs work very much like any email system with an in/outbox. If you look under someone's avatar on the left, you will see a number of buttons. One of these is an envelope. Click on that and this will take you to the PM section. Or, click on someone's user name on the left and, amongst other things, you will see 'Send PM'.
Monica :)
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Thank you Monica, Jen was already more conversant than I and sent me a message.
Further to the Valuation Records transcription I thought to take a look at wills of Broadsea folk from that period until 1925. The following attachment provides some additional insight into the fate of a handful of them.
I hope it assists someone.
Best wishes,
Austin
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Tee Names (also known as To-Names) have a history dating back until at least the 1790's as evidenced by the following account (attached). Note that some familiar Broadsea names will crop up. Again, I believe that this will assist a number of us.
By the by, if anyone else is searching for the Shankey/Shankie Noble branch, then seek me out. I have tales to tell!
Austin
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In reply no.20, you said you were struggling with a tee name Jume/June or Sime. I note there is a Juno in your attachment.Could that be what it was?
flst
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That seems eminently logical, great spot!
Hope everyone is well. Does anyone know when Andrew Bobin/Bobbin(s) Noble died? On ancestry a number of people have his death in the 1860's which means a death certificate should exist...which would be most handy. I've been working down the descendant lines of John Bobbins Noble, brother of George my direct ancestor, and have uncovered some interesting stories.
Best wishes,
Austin
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Hi Austin,
Not sure when Andrew (born around the mid 1700s) married to Jean Taylor died but his son John was 80 when he died in 1865! Andrew's son Andrew (married to Helen Crawford) might have lived into the 1860s but I can't see a death for him at SP - if he lived till 1860 he would have been about 84. Lots of fantasy out there - so glad I stuck to my direct line with these Nobles ;)
Jen
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Looking online, the alleged date of birth for Andrew Noble (Senior "bobbin") is around 1745. I derive this from the sites mentioned earlier in this thread, and ancestry tres. Many of those have him born in the 1740's and dying in 1865! Saying that I am surprised to note the number of people who have included parents born AFTER their children in their ancestry trees! What I wouldn't give to have access to the original Broadsea parish records. Think I need a long, long 'holiday' in 'Bredsea' and the 'Broch'!
Best wishes to all,
Austin
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Hi All
I have just come across these wonderful post about the Broadsea community. My husband's ancestors are McLemans, Watts and Nobles. I note with interest that Marconi kept his instruments at No 67, the home of John McLeman, my husband's Gt Gt Grandfather. It saddens me that out of his 10 children born, 5 died in early childhood. I really must visit the Fraserburgh Heritage Museum this year. Thank you all so much for inspiring me to continue my research which at times is challenging.
Hilary
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My 4 x great grandmother was Anne Noble (baptised 16/10/1773 in Broadsea) and her father was James Noble. I've recently seen some information relating to The Barony Court record of 16/01/1789, which mentions that there were 42 Broadsea fisherman of whom 29 were Nobles, 5 Watts, 1 Lessles, 1 Stephen, 2 Taylors, 3 Crawfords and 1 Mcleman. Included within the Nobles are 9 William, 9 Andrew, 4 Alexander, 3 Gilbert, 2 John and 2 James.
It's possible that the two James Noble are father and son and the date of the Barony Court record (1789) would suggest that one James may be the father of my Anne and, possibly, the other may be her brother (i.e. the James baptised in 1768 in the OPR). Or possibly father and grandfather? One James is referred to as 'Gunner'.
Any information welcome to confirm (or otherwise).
Thanks.