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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: sherrbert on Sunday 30 November 14 19:26 GMT (UK)

Title: An actress in the family
Post by: sherrbert on Sunday 30 November 14 19:26 GMT (UK)
Hi All,
My grt grandfather's sister was Mary Ann Lilley, born 1890 Bethnal Green to Thomas & Mary Ann. Family legend has it that she was an actress, who died of stage fright at a young age and appeared in a production of 'Maria and the red barn'. Would love to find there's some truth in this, so any ideas at all are welcome.
Thanks Sherrbert
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 30 November 14 20:59 GMT (UK)
Hi

Was she married or single when she allegedly died of stage fright?

Have you checked freebmd for a marriage or death for her under Lilley?   www.freebmd.org.uk

Where is she on the 1911 census?

Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: sherrbert on Sunday 30 November 14 22:32 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I've been building my family tree for 10 years now and have come at this from every angle but sadly Mary Ann is still an enigma. Her mother and 3 younger siblings were living in Plaistow 1911 but as for Mary's wereabouts or possible marriage, I have nothing concrete.
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 02 December 14 09:37 GMT (UK)
Do you have the family in 1891/1901 census?

Jennifer
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 02 December 14 10:11 GMT (UK)
Is this the family in 1891?

Class: RG12; Piece: 263; Folio: 50; Page: 20
13 Camden Street, Bethnal Green, London

Lilley, Thomas  Head  M  28  General Dealer  b Hackney
Lilley, Mary A  Wife  F  25  b Islington
Lilley, Mary A  Daughter  F  10 months  b Hackney
Lilley, William  Brother  M  26  Under Sack Maker  b Hackney
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 02 December 14 11:55 GMT (UK)
If so, she is still alive in 1901

16 Chapman Street Plaistow

Thomas Lilley 43 generaldealer bn Shoreditch
Mary Ann 39 bn Islington
Mary A 10
Thomas R 9
Ellen L 8
William R 5
Ada 3.          Children all bn Bethnal Green
William 33 brother lathe line maker bn Shoreditch

We cant do 1911 look ups, but if Mary the mother says how many children she has had and how many have died you may be able to work out if young Mary is still around or not
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: sherrbert on Tuesday 02 December 14 12:18 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Yes I have all the censuses you have mentioned and will check the 1911 for children living. The remaining family were then living at 10 Beale St/Rd Plaistow.
Thanks alot 
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: GrahamSimons on Tuesday 02 December 14 13:20 GMT (UK)
Worth having a look at The Stage archive online. I've found it helpful. You can search without paying, to check whether there will be any results. If you have success then it's only 5 or so for a short-term subscription to see the scanned pages.
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: AJ100 on Tuesday 02 December 14 14:59 GMT (UK)
Interesting that Mary Ann was appearing in 'Maria and the Red Barn.' This was a popular murder of 1827 Suffolk where Maria Marten was murdered by her lover William Corden and her body bried in the barn, so called because of its partly red-tiled roof.
There were even Staffordshire flatbacks - mantlepiece ornaments - of the barn, so popular was the event.
Corden was eventually caught and hanged.

AJ
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 02 December 14 16:04 GMT (UK)
31/3/1890 St Philip's Bethnal Green

Thomas Lilley 27 Gen.Dealer 79 Church St father William Gen.Dealer
Mary Ann Larner 24 father John Larner Labourer same address as groom.

witnesses William Lilley & Mary Ann Olliff

Jennifer
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 02 December 14 18:18 GMT (UK)
I've looked at newspaper reports but although this play is listed on various occasions, I can't see any mention of the death of a member of the cast.
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: jorose on Tuesday 02 December 14 19:55 GMT (UK)
At http://www.1911census.co.uk/
I think you will find Mary if you search for "Silley" in Plaistow.  Perhaps this will reveal her occupation, or who she is living with? (Doesn't seem to be with family as far as I can tell from the free index).

A possible marriage/kids/death might be:
1915 in West Ham district, Mary A Lilley to Stephen Chapman
son 1917 West Ham (Chapman/Lilley)
son 1919 St Olave  (Chapman/Lilley)
death 1922 St Olave (Mary A Chapman aged 31)
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: jim1 on Tuesday 02 December 14 20:37 GMT (UK)
Quote
I think you will find Mary if you search for "Silley" in Plaistow

1911 census informtion removed as it does not appear in the free indexes
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: sherrbert on Thursday 04 December 14 09:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Everyone,
Thank you for all your suggestions and comments. I'll get back to you soon.
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: sherrbert on Thursday 04 December 14 21:06 GMT (UK)
I've looked at The Stage online archives, it's a great resource but sadly no match with Mary.
Been looking hard for 'Silley' in Plaistow 1911 census but I guess I'm missing it :-( HELP PLEASE!
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 04 December 14 21:25 GMT (UK)
Please remember that we are limited as to the amount of 1911 census information we can supply from the free indexes.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=355486.0

Try this

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXB-5PM
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 04 December 14 22:38 GMT (UK)
Sherrbert, often when looking for people in the theatre, you have to bare in mind that many of them used stage names. If this story is correct for Mary Ann, she may not show under her name (Mary Ann Lilley) on The Stage reviews and articles etc.

You may also need to check out Jerose's details to discount that marriage/children and death for a Mary Ann Lilley/Chapman not being the correct one...


A possible marriage/kids/death might be:
1915 in West Ham district, Mary A Lilley to Stephen Chapman
son 1917 West Ham (Chapman/Lilley)
son 1919 St Olave  (Chapman/Lilley)
death 1922 St Olave (Mary A Chapman aged 31)

Monica  :)
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: sherrbert on Friday 05 December 14 10:53 GMT (UK)
I found the 'Silley' census and it's a definate maybe!

I've long considered the possibility of Mary using a stage name, makes things even harder!

As for the possible marriage, it's another definate maybe as I have so little to go on. Ordering a certificate maybe my only option as her dad's name and trade would help.

The legend also tells of Mary's coffin being draped with a Union Jack. I thought this must mean something but as far as I can tell, anyone can have that. This legend might be a myth!
Thanks folks, keep it coming!
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: lizdb on Friday 05 December 14 12:15 GMT (UK)
The other thing to consider is that Family Stories do sometimes get changed and exaggerated over the years. I have found that more often than not there is an element of truth in them, but also more often than not there is a lot of embellishment, or inaccuracy - even that it actually related to a different  person.

Maybe Mary Ann was, rather than being a career actress, in an Amateur Dramatics play performing this play when she was taken ill (with "stage fright" or with more likely with something else) and died. You can imagine the scenario if she collapsed as about to go on to stage, the story would soon start about stage fright, when maybe she was ill with something else all along.
Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: sherrbert on Saturday 27 January 18 14:08 GMT (UK)
At http://www.1911census.co.uk/
I think you will find Mary if you search for "Silley" in Plaistow.  Perhaps this will reveal her occupation, or who she is living with? (Doesn't seem to be with family as far as I can tell from the free index).

A possible marriage/kids/death might be:
1915 in West Ham district, Mary A Lilley to Stephen Chapman
son 1917 West Ham (Chapman/Lilley)
son 1919 St Olave  (Chapman/Lilley)
death 1922 St Olave (Mary A Chapman aged 31)

Hi All,
I think I may have discovered a second marriage for Stephen Chapman to Eleanor Emma Cooper (formerly Leadbetter) in June 1922 in Kent. Is anyone able to look this up please and confirm Stephen is a widower? If this is correct then  I may have also found him on the 1939 Reg. and It may be that his eldest son Samuel C is living with his grandad of the same name in Kent.
Cheers!!!



Title: Re: An actress in the family
Post by: Romanygirl on Monday 01 November 21 03:12 GMT (UK)
Interesting that Mary Ann was appearing in 'Maria and the Red Barn.' This was a popular murder of 1827 Suffolk where Maria Marten was murdered by her lover William Corden and her body bried in the barn, so called because of its partly red-tiled roof.
There were even Staffordshire flatbacks - mantlepiece ornaments - of the barn, so popular was the event.
Corden was eventually caught and hanged.

AJ
Maria's real name was Mary Vine, Corder always called her Mary never Maria, she used the name Maria when she entertained the local men