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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sirsimon on Tuesday 02 December 14 14:02 GMT (UK)
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Hello
This is an entry for Francis Steel and his family, whom are living in Byker in Newcastle Upon Tyne, Francis's wife Margaret is absent, so I assume she has died, there is a Margaret Steel whom died in 1840.
Head (implied) Francis Steel 60 - 64
Son (implied) John Steel 25 - 29
Daughter (implied) Margeret Steel 25 - 29
Daughter (implied) Ann Steel 4
I was wondering if someone could help in finding the marriage of his son John and his wife Margaret. Also according to family search, they had several children, Ann, born in 1837 and Francis in 1838.
I cannot find Francis in any succeeding censuses, but there is a possible death record in 1877 in Rotherham.
I would appreciate it if someone could help in find Francis.
thanks
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Is this 1841 census you are quoting from?
It does not give relationships, so how do you know John and Margaret are married and not brother and sister ( or cousins or anything else for that matter!)
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John is definitely Francis's son :)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NDVB-VQ7
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Looking at the 1851 census I think Margaret is actually John's wife and Ann is their child. Margaret might be Margaret Henderson before marriage as her mother appears to be living with them in 1851
Francis dies in 1841 and I see from the 41 census he was not born in county. I cannot find a marriage for him and its possible he married the senior Margaret outside the county
In 1851 they are living at Monkton Paper Mill in Hedworth, Monkton and Jarrow under reference
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2400; Folio: 416; Page: 25; GSU roll: 87078.
and John's age has been incorrectly transcribed as 56 on Ancestry
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Looks like a daughter Margaret baptised 08 Dec 1805
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NDKW-QRP
Edit: There seems something wrong as the BT's say the father is James
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Francis was from Cumberland, he was born in Stapleton in 1776 to John and Ann Steel. He is my 9x great granduncle.
It is possible he married Margaret Harbittle in Gateshead, Durham in 1796 and they had two children, John in 1815 and Margaret in 1805
So the John Steel living in Monkton is him? I always thought he was a different Steel
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Well the 1805 baptism is for a Margaret and the mother was Margaret Harbottle before marriage and the father is from Cumberland, although the name on the BT's is James yet the familysearch site says it is Frances (sic). It would not be the first time the records differ between the parish registers and the BT's
Yes the 1851 is definitely him (John)
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This is what freereg says about the 1805 baptism so looks like it comes from the BT's
County Northumberland
Place Newcastle Upon Tyne
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth 03 Aug 1805
BaptismDate 08 Dec 1805
Forename Margaret
Sex F
FatherForename James
MotherForename Margaret
FatherSurname STEEL
MotherSurname HARBOTTLE
Abode Stapleton Cumberland
FatherOccupation Labourer
Notes Entry reads - Margaret Steel 1st Dr of James Steel Labr of Stapleton Cumberland by his wife Margaret Dr of Robert Harbottle pitn [pitman] of Heworth Durham.
FileNumber 1081
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thanks, I appreciate this
It looks like John had two more children I was unaware of, John and William
I have checked the census, but I cannot seem to find them, nor their child Francis, whom hasn't appeared on the census, though a baptism record exists. He may have died young, perhaps before the 1841 census.
It's no problem if Francis had his name written erroneously, it was definitely Francis.
Interesting that the family are living in Durham, quite a distance to travel, especially since all subsequent census entries give them as living in Byker. John is last seen on the 1881 census as an invalid
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This looks a possible for the marriage
County Durham
Place Gateshead
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber
MarriageDate 03 Dec 1798
GroomForename Francis
GroomSurname STEAL
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition
GroomOccupation
GroomAbode
BrideForename Margaret
BrideSurname HARBOTTLE
this is the marriage in the BT's but no further details
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01eaq/
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thank you so much
that looks like Francis, Gateshead is only 3 miles south of Byker, where they are living in 1841.
No sign of his wife Margaret on the 1841 census, looks like she died before 1841.
There is a death record for a Margaret Steel dying in Newcastle Upon Tyne in 1840, could be her, but no indication online of an age of death to verify.
John's wife Margaret could be Henderson since there is a baptism for a John Henderson Steel in Newcastle Upon Tyne in 1843
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NDK4-NXP :)
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A possible birth registration for their son William?
The second name could be from his grandfather Francis
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2N4S-9K6
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Yes it looks like we have the right family and the marriage.
I am still a bit perplexed about the 1805 baptism showing the father as James in the BT's and I would see if someone could look it up in the parish registers (copies of) just to satisfy yourself that bit more
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I have checked family search and I went to Carlisle a few months ago, I do not remember seeing a James Steel born in 1776 from Stapleton. There is my 4 x great granduncle James Steel, he was born in Stapleton, but he was born in 1789 and he died in 1872 in Cumberland, he never moved to Northumberland, so I think the James is just an error.
I think John's wife was Margaret Henderson.
I appreciate the help, the only thing I cannot get my head around is the absence of all their children in later censuses, I haven't found death dates for Margaret and John either. They are both alive in 1881, but not in 1891.
It is possible some of their children died young, since Francis and William do not appear on later censuses.
There is a possible marriage for their daughter Ann, she apparently married William Capstaff.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N65D-ZT6
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1891 Census
Margaret Steele 79
Living in Byker (Looks like same building as in 1881). Widowed
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4213; Folio: 130; Page: 24; GSU Roll: 6099323.
1901 Census
Mary Ann Sanderson 66
Margaret Steel 88
Living with Mary Ann Sanderson who is her niece in Sunderland. Both Widowed
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 4709; Folio: 110; Page: 46.
Margaret’s death
Deaths Mar 1902
Steel Margaret 90 Sunderland 10a 326
John’s likely death
Name: John Steele
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Registration Year: 1882
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 67
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
Inferred County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b Page: 89
The death of John junior is likely one of these (provided he did not die in Durham where they were in 1851 to ?)
Deaths Sep 1852
STEEL John Newcastle T 10b 3
Deaths Sep 1855
Steel John George Newcastle T 10b 22
Deaths Dec 1857
Steele John Newcastle Tyne 10b 36
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thanks david, a massive help
A shame that John had no Steel descendents, it would have meant more ancestors on the tree because William and John died young and I have no idea what happened to their son Francis, he was born in 1838, but he just vanished
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Sad news re Francis jnr
Births Sep 1838
STEELE Francis Newcastle on Ty.
Deaths Sep 1839
STEELE Francis Newcastle upon Tyne 25 230
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thanks david
He died so young poor thing, but it was not rare for children to die young in those times
Doing some further research, I have learnt that Margaret Henderson, wife of John Steel is the aunt of Mary Ann Henderson, whose father was the brother of Margaret.
She married Simon Sanderson in 1855.
Cannot find the name of Mary Ann's father though, he would have been the brother of Margaret Henderson
Have you managed to find anything on John's daughter Ann? I think she married William Capstaff
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I didn't look for anything on Ann as I thought you had that.
I will have a look tomorrow if I can and also for Margaret Henderson's brother (father of Mary Ann)
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Appreciate it David
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1861 Census
Fortunately in 1861 Mary Ann is with her parents so we know they are Thomas and Elizabeth. Thomas was born in Heworth, Durham
Thomas Henderson 51
Elizabeth Henderson 48
Mary Ann Sanderson 26
Ann Claxton Sanderson 4
RG 9/ 3768/11 p 16
Simon Sanderson does not appear to be on the 61 census that I can see (he is on 41, 51 and 71) but as he is a shipwright perhaps he was at sea.
In respect of Ann Steel I do not think she married William Capstaff, but then again
William Capstaff age 22 m Ann Steel age 21, 24 Feb 1857 All Saints, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland. William's father was John Capstaff, Ann's father was John Steel
so why can't I find them on the census ?
EDIT: I cannot seem to find William and Ann on the censuses so maybe they emigrated so you would need to ask if someone can see them on any passenger lists
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thanks David
It is likely Ann and William emigrated, I will have a look
I have looked at Simon Sanderson and he died in 1876. He was born in 1834 to Simon Sanderson and Ann Claxton, hence explaining the prominence of it in the names of the Sanderson children.
Update: I cannot find any emigration records for Ann and William so I am stumped same as you are.
I looked at the baptisms on family search and I noticed something odd about Mary Ann Henderson. There is a 1835 baptism for Mary Ann, the father is Thomas, but the mother is named Ann, that cannot be right as the census proves otherwise
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I looked at the baptisms on family search and I noticed something odd about Mary Ann Henderson. There is a 1835 baptism for Mary Ann, the father is Thomas, but the mother is named Ann, that cannot be right as the census proves otherwise
The explanation for that could be that Mary Ann's mother is Ann but she dies and Thomas then marries Elizabeth. There are a host of deaths of Ann Henderson up to 1841 and similarly a host of marriages to an Elizabeth. So it would be a case of searching the deaths of Ann's or looking at the marriages to Elizabeth's neither of which will be easy as there are a lot of them
In respect of William and Ann have you checked scotlandspeople.gov.uk. Perhaps they didn't emigrate but went to Scotland as there was a lot of shipbuilding there
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thanks guys
When did Francis Steel's wife Margaret Harbottle die?
I checked the 1840 death of a Margaret Steel and found out it is not his wife, but the daughter of his son John.
She is not on the 1841 census with Francis
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Ann Capstaff might have died in 1858 in Gateshead Durham
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Looking at the new gro index, it seems none of the deaths in Newcastle upon tyne match up with John's birth year of 1843