RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: lydiafield on Thursday 04 December 14 19:43 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help withe search for George A Hauled born 1896 in Newcastle, may have emigrated to Australia
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You have it slightly wrong
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
1896 march qtr George Augustus Hayles Sunderland 10a634
Sunderland is 15 miles from Newcastle ...
ADDED
You might want to check these out - same surname and same registration area
1890 Henry Robert Hayles
1891 Alfred Westwaters Hayles
1893 Elizabeth Jane Hayles
they may be all together on 1901 census
George August baptism 2 years after his birth
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6V8-M5G
looks like the family may be in Benwell ,Northumberland in 1901 census
Benwell to Newcastle is 2 miles
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A record on familysearch suggests he was in the Merchant Navy some time between 1918 and 1921.
Bev
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An ancestry tree states that he deserted the army in 1918 , joined the Merchant Navy , jumped ship in Australia and was shot dead by one of his sons in 1940 in New South Wales ! None of this is sourced but there was indeed a George Hayles , Private in the Northumberland Fusiliers , who is listed on the Rolls as receiving no medals and deserted 8.1.18.
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George Augustus Hayles married Isabella Charlotte A Jude in Sunderland 1890 march qtr
children
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6V8-M5G
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J9V3-F5Y
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J9V3-JZG
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRYZ-KQL
I can understand why you say he was from Newcastle as it is the biggest town in the area - but it does look like the family were from Benwell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benwell
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Further to the shooting story the tree states that he was also known as Peter Augustus Clayton. The shooting was widely covered in the newspapers and the story can be followed on the Trove website. So far I've found nothing to confirm that George Augustus Hayles and Peter Augustus Clayton were one and the same.
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Georges mothers christening
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJHD-VQ8
with her family in 1881
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X35B-Y4P
parents of Isabella Jude marriage
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXGP-H5Y
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Hi their is a Merchant Navy record for a George AGUSTUS Hayles born 17th January 1896 Newcastle on Tyne Identity Certificate Number 302658 Card Type CR10 looks like he was on a vessel called Rona to Sydney, New South Wales his rating could be a "Fireman"
Their is also a photograph of him attached to the record
Keyboard86
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Register of Inquests :
Peter Augustus Clayton b abt 1898 Durham , England
d 1940 Newcastle , NSW
inquest 17 Jan 1940
Death Index :
Peter Augustus Clayton d 1940 NSW
father Peter Augustus
mother Isabella
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1930 Electoral Roll NSW
Address- One Mile Creek, Millfield, Bellbird
CLAYTON, Peter Augustus. Miner
CLAYTON, Grace Harvey. Home Duties.
Sue
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Death (as already posted)
4473/1940 CLAYTON Peter Augustus
Father Peter Augustus
Mother Isabella
At NEWCASTLE
Marriage
2972/1923 CLAYTON Peter A
To HYSLOP Grace H
At GRETA, NSW
Sue
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This George Augustus CLAYTON in NSW was an older man and not the same identity as Peter Augustus CLAYTON
Death
6590/1925 CLAYTON George A
Parents James and Jane
At HURSTVILLE
Death Notice aged 60 in 1925
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16219867
Sue
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For your interest, I see no electoral roll listing in the name George Augustus HAYLES and no definite Marriage or Death record either in Australia. Others may have more succes as not all states records are easily accessible.
Sue
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Perhaps lydiafield will soon let us know if our findings have been of help at all.
Perhaps she has further information to offer.
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Presumably George Snr.'s death.
I wonder if a Will or death certificate would give any useful information.
Deaths Jun 1955
HAYLES George A 84 Tynemouth 1b 473
Bev
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A very interesting topic - how disappointing when there is no feedback !
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I have posted several replies but I think they must be as personal replies, I do not know how to post a reply and thank you to everyone rather than individually, I am not convinced that George Augustus Hayles and Peter Augustus Clayton are one and the same person, although he did arrive in Australia in 1918. This Hayles family, of which there a few branches, all called their children by the same forenames, there are two Henry Roberts both born in 1896 and I am having difficulty deciding which is which from the army records. Hope this helps.
Regards, Lydia
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Hello, George Augustus Hayles a.k.a Peter Augustus Clayton was my Great Grandfather. Our family had only discovered his past in recent years. He used the Clayton name once in Australia presumably to avoid detection after leaving the merchant navy. He also became distant from his family in the UK. There were some issues there. He travelled through Victoria & Queensland before settling in NSW. He married Grace Harvey Hyslop. They had 10 children in total. It is true he was shot and this was covered by the local newspaper. There has been differing accounts of what actually happened however. He did not pass away immediantly, it was days later in hospital. He was coherent. His grave is unmarked. His father was called George Augustus also and his mother was Isabell.
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An ancestry tree states that he deserted the army in 1918 , joined the Merchant Navy , jumped ship in Australia and was shot dead by one of his sons in 1940 in New South Wales ! None of this is sourced but there was indeed a George Hayles , Private in the Northumberland Fusiliers , who is listed on the Rolls as receiving no medals and deserted 8.1.18.
Which site is this information on?
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Further to the shooting story the tree states that he was also known as Peter Augustus Clayton. The shooting was widely covered in the newspapers and the story can be followed on the Trove website. So far I've found nothing to confirm that George Augustus Hayles and Peter Augustus Clayton were one and the same.
Yes he was the same person - I am his Great Grandchild. He was named after his father George.
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Hi there, Thank you for your reply. How did you find out his real history, did he reveal his true name etc, I can understand changing the surname but not the forename. Do you have actual proof that Peter &George are one and the same. I have tried finding the story on trove but could not find it, Lydia.
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Hello, are you a relative? He didn't legally change his name, so there is no official documentation. We have handwritten letters by him, to his family in UK. Within these letters he shows a conflicted personality. There were definitely emotional issues between himself, his parents and certain siblings. My personal thought is that he wanted to identify himself separately from his father George. He clearly adored his mother, writing to her only and repeating that he wanted to prove himself to his father.
With the help of dates, addresses, details on his marriage certificate & stories he told his children, all matching that of his UK life and his photos we concluded that he is the same person. It explained so many odd things about his life.
So in conclusion, there isn't any official evidence, but to his descendents, we are satisfied that George Augustus Hayles lived and died in Australia as Peter Augustus Clayton.
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Hi, I am descended from the Jude line, that was George's mother's maiden surname. I am just completeing details for his siblings and apart from George I cannot find his brother, Robert, but I think I have all the details for his sisters. Did you know George had been in trouble in Newcastle as a child, perhaps this is the root cause of his problems. I have his parents' death certs if you would like info from them. If you can let me know his marriage & death details I would be pleased to send all I have. Lydia
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Hi, I do have his marriage & death certificate to share with you but I'll need some time to find them on pc as I'm on my phone. Also I not familiar with Robert? Only an Alfred and Henry as brothers.. ?
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I am the Granddaughter of George Augustus Clayton I have been assisting my cousin in Wales research for the past 4 years tracing the history of George who was known to me as Peter Clayton I have the original marriage and death certificates I disagree with the comments and psychological evaluation made by bee02 regarding the life of George Augustus Hayles I did share all the information I had found and certificates I purchased with who I believe is bee02 There is much more to this mans life than what has been posted by bee02
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Please share the whole story then, as all these previous posters had access to were the newspaper articles from trove, that unfortunately show a negative one side to his end days.
I simply added to the discussion to encourage a more human view of an individual, as opposed to a newspaper report.
The views of my father (your cousin), one uncle, Nan (your aunt) and two great grandmothers comments throughout the years, are how I had formed my own opinion. The letters you shared with us fit the story.
If you now know more of the story of George, please share it, as that's the only way anyone of us can have the whole picture, and learn more.
We
only know what we're told.
STEPHANIE.
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Just to clarify, what exactly is it that has offended you? I haven't given anyone your purchased documents or shared anything. We were grateful for you to share it with us at the time.
A previous poster (lydia) stated a personal opinion of a possible answer to having 'troubled' life. But you have attacked my personal only.
If my post caused you offence, apologies, but as I said, we only know what we are told. How would I know that there's more to his life if it hasn't been shared? Everyone is at different stages of research. You don't have to pull rank.
If this reply was in person I would be standing up for myself just as I am here.
I wish everyone else luck with there genealogy research. I'm done.
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If you would of had common decency and taken the time to respond to all the information I emailed to you you would be well informed and up to date with all our research but you didn't so if your upset about my first post tough You had a terrific opportunity to be included in our research And we both know it's not just my information you have taken there are hard copies and photos that haven't been returned to the rightful owner which were printed by me .
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Oh wow. I do not have ANY 'hard copies or photos' brandydandylab. Aunty offered the folder to me. I returned home, showed my father, typed out a copy of the letters (as they were amazing to see). Then returned EVERYTHING in the folder back to Aunty. There were only copies of a b&w photo, a copy of a draft card pic I think, and photocopies of the letters. The only other photos I have are in emails from you.
I did not steal anything as you insinuate. I have no reason or desire to steal. I know how much work, and money, goes into researching as I focused 10years on my own surname.
If you received the folder and found items missing, I wish you would have approached either Dad or myself, instead of sitting on it for 2yrs to then accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about on a public forum. It's an opinion.
As for having plenty of opportunity to join in, I didn't, I was in the beginning of a difficult pregnancy and life has simply gotten in the way.
You didn't have to be so superior about it. We are shocked at the words you chose. Your 'high horse' is me standing up for myself. Good day to you, I hope you share ALL of your facts with researchers in the future, so their opinions are more to your liking. I'm blocking this site and your emails. We have no need for negativity. No hard feelings on my part now, it must just be your personality. I wish you all the best.
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I am locking this thread for now as I do not wish for it to continue and escalate in this manner.
If you are reading this bee02 I am sorry I was not able to step in and help before you blocked our emails (I have no other way to contacting you) RootsChat members are able to block other members should they wish whilst remaining to research their family history.
If any member needs any help on RootsChat, members can simply click on the "report to moderator" button for help.
Regards
Sarah :)
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To Sparret regarding the below How did you get this information and do you have any more into Grace Harvey is my grandmother :)
1930 Electoral Roll NSW
Address- One Mile Creek, Millfield, Bellbird
CLAYTON, Peter Augustus. Miner
CLAYTON, Grace Harvey. Home Duties.
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I have lots of information to share with you
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not sure if my post are getting through I hope so
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Hi
I do not recall where I found the information as it was so many years ago ::)
However, I will repeat the search in the next few hours and see if I can relocate it.
I need to say to you that I am in no way related to the subject people of this search nor to any of the respondents on the thread!
My role is simply as a contributor to the research, and many here will be glad to help you if needed in your searches.
Sue
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I am the granddaughter of Peter Clayton alias George Hayles If you would like information please feel free to contact me
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I don't want information.
As I explained above, I have no personal relationship or personal interest in the people this thread is about.
Sue
ADDING
The electoral roll information came from Ancestry.com.au where the rolls are digitised.
There are entries there for Grace Harvey CLAYTON and others of the family from 1930 to 1947.
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Hi there,
Like Sparrett, I am NOT related to any of the people posting on this thread and I have no personal interest in the people that this thread is about.
I mention though that the NSW State Archives holds the Probate Packet for the following:
Peter Augustus CLAYTON, DD 9 January 1940. Probate was granted 18 Feb 1963.
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/ADLIB_RNSW112409398
JM
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Grace HENWOOD, formerly CLAYTON, nee HYSLOP lived to the age of 105 years ;D, dying in July 2007.
Amazing after such a horrid early married life.
Sue
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My sincere apology Thank you for taking the time to respond much appreciated
Warm regards