RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: snuttall on Saturday 06 December 14 18:06 GMT (UK)
-
Hi,
I have a set of parents in Accrington in the 1880s/1890s, William Henry Nuttall and wife Mary Jane, who have seven children, starting in 1884 with James William Nuttall.
On the 1891 census, however James William cannot be found living with his parents and brothers. A quick search reveals he is living with his grandparents, James and Mary Nuttall, and aunts Mary and Annie. The census indicates that his grandfather James is paralysed.
James William (the grandson) never seems to return to live with his parents. Ten years later, following his grandfather's death, he, his widowed grandmother, and his aunt are all still living together with his aunt's new husband Jabez Barnes. James William's parents are alive and well and still living nearby with James William's brothers and sisters.
Why would a family send their eldest son to live with an infirm grandparent? If it were an older child I might think there was an idea of his working or helping look after the grandfather, but would a seven year old really be more a help than a burden? His grandmother Mary is not listed as employed, indicating she would be able to care for the paralysed grandfather, and that the family is also missing an extra income. Why would a household already missing two incomes take on an extra child?
James' own parents house is not overcrowded by the standards of the day, with three children listed on the 1891 census, and even having taken on a boarder.
Any thoughts appreciated.
-
Given that the census is a snapshot of just one night in 10 years, you may simply (w/o other evidence) be looking at the situation where he happened to be just visiting .... fairly big coincidence, but .....
-
He may not have been living there all the time, he may have been staying overnight in the first census and have moved there later when he was more help..or he may have had some health issue or been a complete pest with his siblings, so his parents took the opportunity to get some peace by sending him to the grandparents.
-
I did think this (possibly just staying the night), so have just cross referenced the address James William gives at the time of his marriage in 1904, and this is the same address his aunt gives when she baptises a child in the same year. So he seems to be found living with his grandparents/aunt a little too often (three times) to be coincidence.
-
He may not have been living there all the time, he may have been staying overnight in the first census and have moved there later when he was more help..or he may have had some health issue or been a complete pest with his siblings, so his parents took the opportunity to get some peace by sending him to the grandparents.
Indeed this could also be reasonable.
-
James' own parents house is not overcrowded by the standards of the day, with three children listed on the 1891 census, and even having taken on a boarder.
Don't forget that this would be additional income for the family
-
Just based on this information you can only really make educated guesses.
People on the Census are those in the house on census night, so it doesn't mean living there , he could have visited, however I tend to agree that it is likely he was living with grandparents.
A 7 year old then was more useful than a 7 year old would be now, for one they could very well been earning additional money for the family, could run around , help feed a disabled person and likely remained as it was his home and continued to look after grandma as well as company for her. Maybe it was a space to live, maybe easy for him to earn money living there maybe a difficult child who was easier to handle by grandparents and by giving him responsibilities of caring for someone, maybe it was classed as a family duty
My great grandfather lived with his grandparents from an early age, only staying with his parents until he was 11 months old, his parents went on to have several other children and were married for nearly 60 years. He remained when his grandmother died when he was 10 ish years old and in the house was an aunt who was disabled and he lived with his grandfather until long after he married, moving only once his grandfather died. He was the eldest child as well.
-
We dont know either how big their house actually was. It could be that they only had two or three rooms and let one of these to a boarder to bring in the extra money. In which case, the three younger children could have been sleeping in the same room as their parents and they sent the older one to his grandparents. How far away from the grandparents did they live? Could it be that he just slept there?
As iluleah says, just guess work really. I wonder if it is possible to find his school admission anywhere and see what address was given on that?
-
Have you a marriage date for the couple? I have found several instances in my family tree where the first born (and illegitimate) child of a couple often appears to stay with grandparents, presumably having been born in that household, despite the parents moving on to another address in the course of their marriage. I would agree with other posts that a 7 year old would be doing more in the household than a 7 year old now. Children were out working at 12 and 13.
-
Children lived and live with grandparents throughout history, for very many different reasons:
'Of the 7.5 million children in the USA who lived with a grandparent in 2011, more than a fifth did not have a parent present in the household, the report said. '
Suggest you do some background reading on social conditions in Lancashire at the time.
-
Children lived and live with grandparents throughout history, for very many different reasons:
'Of the 7.5 million children in the USA who lived with a grandparent in 2011, more than a fifth did not have a parent present in the household, the report said. '
Suggest you do some background reading on social conditions in Lancashire at the time.
Thanks, yes I can well imagine it would have been usual for members of households to move to other households at different times according to financial situations and which family members were living, earning, incapacitated, etc., and there are many instances of this in my tree (widowed families moving in with other families, orphaned children being divided up between numerous relations, newly married couples living with parents, illegitimate children quietly appearing as children in the grandparents' household, etc.). It is just the permanence of this situation which strikes me as strange. Admittedly I only have three snapshots in time (1891,1901,1904) but that one child - and one child alone, out of eight children born - went to live with his grandparents, and never once returned - strikes me as not simply having been for financial reasons. But thank you all for your suggestions - as you say we can never know for certain but to get some conjecture from others is always useful.