RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Immigrants & Emigrants - General => Topic started by: brigidmac on Saturday 27 December 14 01:39 GMT (UK)
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Having found the names of my great grandfather's siblings on Latvian data base
I'm wondering how likely it is Fellman's living at an address in Birkenhead on 1901 census could actually be his family as several of the childrens names start the same + are at roughly same birth years .
The father's russian/jewish names are Leizer-Mendel His 2nd wife is Sheina
his children born jacobstadt Russia are Rebecca1870, george-jacob1870 ,mera b1880,bassa b1882 , sora b1885 david 1886 tauba b1890 , khaya b1891
in Birkenhead 1901 census Fellman family
the father is listed as Samuel ..wife jane
children May aged 20,Bessie aged18 , sarah aged16 ,David aged14 Tilly aged 10 ,gertrude born lancashire aged7 + esther b.lancs aged 5
i dismissed this family earlier in my research
Does Anyone else think these names correspond too well to be coincidental?
eldest daughter rebecca was married + there is a death record in Manchester for a Taube Fellman but age is 0 and she should be aged 2
Eldest son my ggafther George jacob was living on a nearby street .
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ps there is a birth in Prestwich for a Golde Fellman in 1893 on Freebmd
and a Golda fellman b1893 at manchester Jewsschool in 1898 (0n GR records but haven't got credits to see the image) could this be Gertrude Fellman from the Birkenhead 1901 census
In 1891 Betsy,Mary+ Sarah Fellman (ages not given) are also attending the Manchester Jews school ....surely the same family .
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I think it is the family you are looking for, the IGI version of the census states they are all born in Russia. It would be a pretty big coincidence for them not to be your family
What do you make of the Golda Feldman born in 1905, Prestwich, Lancashire, England who died in 1905? (Parents?)
Clearly she is not the Golda Fellman attending school in 1898 who was born September 1993 Camden, London, England mother: Mantel
Also a Golda Feldlman born 1912, Mile End Old Town, London, England mother: Lazarus.
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I think the correlation is good, but coincidences DO happen, so you want to be as sure as you can be.
The fact that the IGI version of the census says born in Russia is helpful ... but where did THEY get it from??
Go back to the original document (FindMtPast allows you to see an image of the actual surviving Census papers ... and I imagine Ancestry must as well) and see what IT says.
If in any remaining doubt, or if it gives the Lancashire birth places, do an elimination search of the BMD registers. Are there any registered births which match? If so, invest in the certificates to satisfy yourself that the parents' names are different.
If there are NO matching birth registrations, then it is pretty certain that they were NOT born in Lancashire, no matter what the census says (just because it was written on a census return doesn't mean it was true ...).
Of course, proving that they were not born in Lancashire is not the same as proving that they were born in Russia (yes ... I know ... but Latvia was part of Russia at the time, was it not?) ... but it helps to strengthen the inferences that can properly be drawn from the coincidence.
Also, I think you need to check the shipping records. First of all, where did the Baltic traders tend to dock in Britain? Were they trading out of the East Coast ports, or were they trading out of Liverpool? I don't know, but I think this is important. If they were trading out of Liverpool then it makes sense that a family recently arrived from Latvia should be present in Lancashire; but if they were trading exclusively out of the East Coast ports, then this migration looks rather less likely.
A lot of the passenger lists survive, and the enhanced subscriptions at FindMyPast (and probably at Ancestry as well) give you access to them. If these children were born in Latvia, and you have them living in Lancashire when they were not yet in their teens, then you have a pretty narrow time band in which to search for their transit records. If you can find them, it should tell you when and where they arrived, and on what ship. Does that make sense, in the context of everything else you know about them? If so, then again, it is only inferential and not firm evidence BUT it is looking pretty good.
My gut feeling is that you are onto the right records here ... but gut feelings only take you so far. You want to find as much additional evidence pointing in the same direction as you can. And if the gut feeling is right then there SHOULD be further evidence. It's just a matter of finding it.
Good luck!
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Hello,
Lancashire BMD is showing these births which could be relevant:
1892
Golde Fellman Cheetham district
1897
Esther L Fillman Cheetham district
These would fit with Prestwich district in Free BMD
There are several variations of the surname in Manchester but these do look a good match.
Regards
Heywood
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thanks i saw that there were births for a Golde in 1893 and Esther in 1897 but nothing is listed about them ie parents . could Golde Be Gertrude ? I think I should send for 1 of these births .
I used lots of credits in past on shipping records some of the names or close approximations come up in 1904 and 1905 from liverpool to USA but can't find enough members together to show it is this family
i have seen the latvian russian records and have exact dates but could be birth or baptism for Mera 31/02/1880,
Bassa 16/02/1882
sora 30/05/1885
parents listed as Leizer -mendel Fellman + geis-eda (various spellings)
elder sister rebecca's scottish death cert list her parents as lazarus Fellman + Edith landsman
Geisse -eida died in 1888 and Lazurus must have remarried Shiena soon after as baby Taube was born 3/march 1890
i haven't seen details of david born 1886
my own ggrandfather may have been called Yankel - ? Fellman on the Latvian records after his own grandfather .there was a near 10 year gap between George Jacob b1871and Rebecca Born between 1870-1873 and the next surviving siblings; Mera , Bassa , David + Sora born in 1880's
which also fits with the 1901 birkenhead fdamily
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Hi again,
I just posted this on an earlier thread but then saw this one so have posted again here- hope it's not too confusing:
Oceanic 9th March 1905
Samuel Feldman, wife and children.
Last residence, Liverpool, 14 yrs.
Going to B Feldman, son, 478 Myrtle Avenue, Brooklyn
Heywood
There are some of the same family on the Celtic manifest in April 1905 but crossed through- going to Barnett Feldman of the above address.
This looks to be the family in 1910 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M5HM-C55
Original posted here today http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702300.msg5516917#msg5516917
Heywood
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Great news and more name links + variations
I looked at school records ;
ON 26/10/ 1891 Mary ,Betsy +Sarah Fellman are admitted to Manchester Jews school .
father's name is given as Lazarus ,all born Russia ,their address is 101 Bury New Road
In 1898 Golda Fellman b1893 is admitted to Manchester Jews school her father is given as Samuel
7 bury new road
on 09/01/1900 Matilda Fellman DoB15/3/1891 of 36 Price st Birkenhead is admitted to St John church of England school her parent /guardian is named as George but maybe her 30yrold big brother took her to be registered,
she had been at the junior school previously
school records from 1902 has Gertie Fellman of 36 price street dob 4/10/1893 entering birkenhead st john church of england school
i have not seen the census from NY 1910 but it looks as if Samuel + jeanie with 5 girls are the same family the ages of gertrude ,matilda + "lestraube"(esther) fit but Celia(sarah:sore)and Bessie(besa )are 5yrs out and Samuel is too young to have adult daughters must be a mistranscription
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Did you see the immigration records?
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1905
Samuel Feldman 50 yrs, traveller Russia. Hebrew
Sarah 17 yrs dressmaker
Sanna 36 yrs wife
Tilly 11 yrs daughter
Gerty 9 yrs
Esther 5 yrs
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Here's Bessie :)
Baltic, October 19th 1904
Bessie Fellman 20 yrs dressmaker born Russia Hebrew race/people lived in Liverpool 6 yrs going to brother Barues ? Fellman, 478 Myrtle Ave
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Heywood ;where did you get that information is the grouping of samuel + his family on the oceanic ?
They should have a brother David .somewhere but I haven't come across one beginning with B yet according to my Great granfather George Jacobs medical records from 1920 he was the 2nd eldest of 12 , 2 of whom are dead. he was born in 1871 according to most records and his sister Rebecca could be a few years younger or older . I know 2 children(dvora+ aron) died in jacobstadt ;his other full siblings were mera/may 1880
bassa/bessie 1882
sora/sarah/celia 1885
david 1886
half siblngs taube /taube b1890 jakobstadt
khaya/tilly matilda b1891
golde/gertrude /gertz b1893 lancs
esther /lestraube b1897 lancs that makes a total of 12 already
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I was/am bothered about Barnett/B but the rest of the records look so good, don't they?
The grouping is on Ellis Island site http://libertyellisfoundation.org/passenger. You have to sign in but it is free.
You need access to Ancestry.com or similar, I think, for census addresses. Family Search shows links. 478 Myrtle, Avenue, Brooklyn is the address they went to. Additionally, there is the Feldman/Fellman spellings.
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someone on GR sent me the transcription of the passenger list.
I will come back to it later ; Barnett should be born 1868-1870 if older brother . In my head I 'd decided maybe Rebecca was eldest and George jacob was eldest son .
Rebecca named her son Barnet in 1909
so the name is in the family
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summary of research so far
My great grandfather came from Russia where i found him aged 20with a 40 year old "female" Mendal on Manchester census 1891
I learnt that he was the 2nd sibling of 12 from his hospital records the named sister
rebecca's death certificate gave both Parents names ;Lazarus Fellman edith Landsman
Today I found more links information by looking at the originals of school records
1893 David Fellman aged 14 of 3 Nightingale st enrols at Manchester Jews school
as does sister matilda Dob13/3/90 (last figure crossed out changed from 89 /) on original surname is clearly Fellman (transcription Filman) father Sam.
Rebecca Fellman is manchester school name for our Tilly she is enrolled on same day and from same address as her sister Golda (Gertrude) but has father's name as Meyer
on a different page Golda's father named Samuel ;
1901 census it's Tilly + Gertrude ,
On 09/01/1900 it's Matilda of 36 Price sT enrolling in Birkenhead Cof E school
Which is very poignant for me as George is listed under father/guardian colum is actaully her big brother who's girlfriend Charlotte Roberts has just given birth to his child (my nana maisie )+ is petitioning for maintenance
"Gertie" still at 36 Price st is enrolled at St john's Cof E Birkenhead in 1903.
connection to George's eldest brother ;
in 1892 little Adolf Feldman of Bent St father is transcribed as Jacob Fellman but the original clearly has Barius J Fellman
did Barius become Barnet in USA ? did he send his 1st born to GB with his grandmother + aunties ?
His other children were born in Russia apart from youngest 2 in NY
In April 1903 Annie + Isreal Feldman BENT ST were enrolled in this school,
thier father Jacob Feldman date of withdrawal from school looks like 1904
Barnet Jacob was not in UK for any census as by 1910 he is established in NY
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It's looking pretty good from where I'm sitting, Brigid :)
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Thanks Heywood et al fo help + continued interest
My cousin is assimilating all the info we have so far ...I'm not good on the computer + really need tp print tese conversations out so i don't miss anything . still looking for Ggfather's grave I keep missing daytime hours to phone some welsh cemetaries . if he did get a Jewish burial maybe his Jewish name will be transcribed on headstone .
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Barnet appears as Bernard on record of his marriage to Lena Ratner
spellling is Benjaman Falman in the 1905 census. If he was only 29 it makes his year of birth approx 1876 .He should be older than my ggfather George jacob Fellman b.1871
could this be the same man as Barius J Fellman (jacob) ...whose children Adolf,b 1892 ,Anne + Israel of Bent street ,Manchester were enrolled in schools there in 1904.
I can't find his 1st wife's name as they arrive from latvia after 1901 and going to USA before 1911
so not on census .
could be rebecca fellman who died in prestwich aged 27 in 1900
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You need access to Ancestry.com or similar, I think, for census addresses.
Did this get answered? Apologies if this is repeated:
1901 the family was at 36, Price St, Birkenhead.
Parents Samuel L and Jane, and children May, Bessie, Sarah, David, Tilly all born Russia (foreign subjects); Gertrude and Esther born Lancs, Manchester.
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You need access to Ancestry.com or similar, I think, for census addresses.
Did this get answered? Apologies if this is repeated:
1901 the family was at 36, Price St, Birkenhead.
Parents Samuel L and Jane, and children May, Bessie, Sarah, David, Tilly all born Russia (foreign subjects); Gertrude and Esther born Lancs, Manchester.
Hi Annie,
Just saw this.
That information is known. I wrote re Ancestry.com because it was USA addresses that were being discussed.
Heywood
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OK - better repeated than left out!!!
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Thanks Annie ;yes I started with the 1901 liverpool census and tried to link the names with ones on passenger ships to USA ; It looks like the elder children Mary/may b1880
Barius/Benjaman/Bernard b.between 1868-1874
Bessie /betsy b1882
and David b1886 all travelled independently .in 1904 or 1905
brother Benjaman's NY address links them all up .
I'd like to know if he was a widower when he married Lena Ratner in 1902 to know if he was the same man as manchester Barius Jacob Fellman
He arrived in NY around 1898
I was confused by a ship record of a Barnet Feldman, tailor going to stay with his sister M.lebrokein
in brooklyn 1904 This must be a different man
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to reach my total of 12 siblings for great grandfather george jacob fellman i now have to ignore the 3 half siblings and find 3 more who may have stayed in GB one must be born pre 1870 the others probably born between 1871 +1879 which are the missing years on latvian records i have the births + deaths of the last 6.
The name Jacob keeps cropping up ; a married wallpaper packer age 26 lodging with a Gilbert family
there are a few newspaper articles ;though I've only accessed the 1 about my ggfather who was actually named george jacob
and a death in 1922 w.derby aged 52 b1868
there is a death of a rebecca fellman aged 27 in 1900 she could be his wife or 1st wife of Barnet jacob F
there is also a nathan who died in prestwich aged 58 in 1916 + I believe i came across his name in earlier research .I also discounted him and an unbaptised baby born russia 1888 because of the 1920 data George jacob F as" 2nd eldest of 12siblings, 2 of whom are dead"
there are plenty of possibilities with the Feldman spelling but I have to narrow search down so ignore them for now unless there is an address link or strong name correlation .
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Samuel/Lazarus Fellman + Sana/jane nee landman other dead children quite likely to be
samuel Fellman age 0 dec 1892 age 1 born 4th quarter of 1891
+ Isreal age 0 1894 can't find corresponding birth
Can't find any other records Of Barius?Barnet Jacob Fellman's Children ;
but a good indication that Barnet+ wife + children came to GB from Russia the same year as the rest of the family .is that his son
Adolf Fellman of 5 bent st was enrolled at manchester jews school in 1891
He was in USA by 1899 but his children could have been with their mothers family(don't know her name )
in 1903 Annie b1895 +Isreal b1896 would still have thier father's name on school enrollment
thier date of withdrawal from school is 25/11/04 which is around time most of their (potential)aunts + uncles were travelling to USA
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Does anyone know Russian/Hebrew version of Mordechai .Abraham . Isaac + Rachel + israel
Our Fellmans have links toRussia .lancs. Dundee,Glasgow
+to the surnames Landsman , Bloch + Cohen names
so I'm willing to bet that Mendel Jankel F son of ( Jankel Leib) born 1867 ,my ggfather's cousin became
George if accept the FelDman spelling
..found in Dundee Census 1911 aged 42 , clothier born Russia
Married to Bertha Baloch 39 b.Russia
They married in Theolsia (don't know where that is) in 1895
children ; Gertrude FELDMON 14 b lancs 1897 Thought she was 1 of ours at 1st
Moses aged12 born Glasgow
Louis ,harry + John born after 1901 in Dundee
His death records from 1925 say he was a a jute maker parents Mordechai + Mary ms Bredman
2 candidates for our siblings are
According to Manchester rate book
Abraham Fellman who lived at 38 Herbert st. Mancs in 1898
with an Abrahm isaac Cohen
Isaac Felman marries Dora cowen w.Derby 1905
births Sophia 1906 + Isreal mar 1909 w .derby
Rachel Fellman who died 1900 aged 20
Also wonder if the Mendel on 1891 census with our George was actually a woman as per census colum but an Aunt
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=724944.new#new
Shows lancs research done on this particular family ;
I also posted on American forum re the Fellman Girls name changing + now realise their ages also changed by up to 4 years when they got on the boats + arrived in USA .
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update Rache Fellman death cert ; not enough info ..died in workhouse ..maybe they didn't know whether she was married
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there is an Adolph Fellman b1892 enrolled in manchester school in oct 1891 parent or guardian is named as Barius Jacobs of 5 bent st so I thought this could be Barnet there is a record of Rachel Fellman dying in a workhouse in 1900 ..I wondered if this could be his first wife ; her death cert doesnt say if she was married or not.
Marriage USA 1902
Bernard Fellman ; father Lazer Fellman; mother Chein Landman
Lena Ratner ;father david Levin Mother sarah Levin
could this be a second marriage
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Fellman is an unusual surname even in Latvia .some of the ones I discarded initially are related tho distantly .
I found two Tilly Fellman
one born in Latvia in 1890 named originally as
As khaya
then in Birkenhead school in 1900 Mathilda and census 1901and on ships and us census was Nana.s (.Half )aunt. Her grandson kindly sent me pictures of her as a young woman and an elderly lady ....I see some resemblance to my Nana.
The other Tilly was born in Brooklyn early 1900's she was my nana.s neice. Daughter of BENJAMIN Barnet ? Fellman and Lena ratner
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I don't yet know if this man is connected to my family but
Abraham Fellman on manchester rate books in 1883
Turns up as Abraham Philman on 1882 rates
Then I found him by looking for Philman on 1881 census ...in Liverpool workhouse
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I am reviving this thread for new found relatives
Who didn't know about Fellman origins
And to add information from them
We worked out that Samuel Lazurus Fellman first wife name Geis Eida landman would have been anliscised to Augusta Edith
Her 4 daughters that I know about named their first daughters Geis eda( later known as Edith) .Augusta .Augusta ( Gussie)and Edith .
Her son's marriage record names his mother as Chein. Landman but i think that could be another spelling of Seina/ Jane his stepmother
There were also Four grandaughters named Jeannie Janet or Jeanette
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Chaya Rivka unknown surname
could be a link to someone whose DNA matches
Is Rivka a version of Rebecca
Could she have been named after a maternal grandmother or paternal great grandmother
I.m not sure if she is the first or second daughter of guess Ada Landman and Leizer Mendel Fellman .
GeisAda landman had father called Gershon landsman/ Landman / Landmann
Could my great grandfather have his first name George ?/
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Hello there! It's been a while.
The Yiddish name Sheyneh (from the German word Schöne = beautiful) was frequently anglicised to the names you listed.
Rivka is the Hebrew form of Rebecca.
Gershon appears to be the name passed down the generations of the Landmann family, so it is reasonable to assume that it was your ggf's Hebrew name.
Justin
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wow justin
youve come up trumps again
I cany find the refs to original research you sent ..somewhere in computer hyperspace
i did send a print out of the generation link
I found 2 anomolies
the David married to Khaya was not ours
and i think little aaron mottel infant death father medel leizer fellman is not same man as our leizer mendel son of leib
so the dna matching perso has a Fannie ....F b1870 near Latvia
mothers name chaya Rivka
so if George Jacob Fellman was given the first name of maternal gmother
Gershon Landman and patronym of paternal gfather Leib Yankel Fellman does that make him 2nd son
in which case i think eldest son would be the husband of Rachel fellman who died in the workhouse hospitl 1900 aged 27
Rebecca could be named after maternal gmother which would make her first daughter
if its paternal gmother would she be second daughter
fannie SCHWARTZ nee F...and maybe married twice could be eldest daughter
ive found a potential lithuanian chaya Rivka with VOlman relatives
I'm now counting the half sisters in tally of 12
1 definite sibling died before 1920 is Barius /Bernard
probable little Dvora
possible Rachel Fellman ..records dont show if she was a married lady or single age 27
probable husbansd Abraham PHilman but how does that name link to paternal gfather Leib yankel ?
got to go now thanks for continued interest ..hope this story will help others to try using names to identify links
ps
I think Leib yankels may have had 2 wives of it was his mother called sorre
really wish i'd put all relevant info in one file
and have altered my tree on Ancestry speculatively
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DNA possible links back two more generations to Lithuania ..records have some more different spellings
Hebrew or Yiddish ?
Laybe. =Leib ?
Eliazer. Leizel
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The record of Aron-Mottel's birth is transcribed here http://usdine.free.fr/birthsjakobstadteightythree.html (http://usdine.free.fr/birthsjakobstadteightythree.html)
The David Fellman who married Khaya Kortin in 1911 was probably a cousin of 'your' David who married Sadie.
It is not possible to determine the sequence of birth from the names that couples gave to their children. Jewish naming customs do, however, help to identify familial relationships, because a child is only ever given the name of a deceased relative, such as its grandparents, great-grandparents, uncles/aunts, etc.
The name Gershon does not appear in any of the other Fellman lines in Jakobstadt or Riga, but it does appear in the Landman family of Jakobstadt. In particular, we have Marcus (Mottel in Yiddish) Landman (1816-1880), who was the son of a Gershon Landman. It is this fact that led me to deduce that Gesa-Eida was Marcus's daughter, because it would be logical for her to have sons named after her father and grandfather. As Marcus did not die until 1880, his name could not have been given to a son born in 1871.
Similarly, we can deduce that Leizer-Mendel's father, Leib, was still alive in 1871. His grandfather, Yankel, was most likely dead however. So it would be reasonable that the name Yankel be given to one of Leizer-Mendel's sons.
We can only speculate about the relative after whom Rebecca was named. As you say, she could have been Gershon Landman's wife.
Leib/Leyb/Layb/Laib/Leybel, etc. etc. are all Yiddish variations of the same name derived from the Yiddish word for 'lion'.
However, you have to bear in mind that these are the romanised versions of names written in Yiddish (i.e. Hebrew letters) or Russian (Cyrillic).
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There are two very similar Hebrew names for which the Yiddish nickname Leyzer was often used.
Where have you come across Leizel?
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off hand Leizer-Mendel was on christine Usdine site of Latvian record transcriptins
Russian Lady sent me a few examples
I thought it was you justin whod posted others cos i didnt know how to copy + paste or download documents i had in fron of me ....still struggle with that !
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The deceased only may be case for some but this family obviously did not follow that rule
especially among descendats
I think it is Gershon Marcus who had died tho
not Marcus Gershon Landsman who'd have been sheinas brother
speaking to the descendent yesterday he didnt know where his name Mark came from ...now we know
also as ive now added up the 12 children including infant deaths except the eldests name
a pattern is emerging ..i think when lazurus remarried he started using same srstem with second wife
Tilly was registtered at one school as Rebecca her eldest half sis too old for school
could she have been khaya Rivka or Rivka Khaya ....
after next sis Taube died in england there may have been another Taube or Golde ..later gertrude
i never had enough money to send off for certificates of these deaths having paid for 1 with no information
finally a son named after father ..little Samuel Fellman who also died as an infant
or Isreal fellman..died as infant
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They most certainly did follow the naming custom. Ashkenazi Jews regarded it as very bad luck to name a child after a living person. However, it is not always possible to identify the relative after whom a child was named. Moreover, the custom applied to the Hebrew name, not the secular name.
Sheina Landman was a daughter Ruben (son of Marcus) Landman (thus a granddaughter of Marcus (s/o Gershon) Landman) and his wife, Taube.
Her children were probably named after Taube's deceased relatives.
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Oops sorry for miscommunication .
I mean Sam's grandchildren s generation didn't seem to have respected it
I.ll let American cousins work out who all the Janet Jeanie Jeanette's were named after ...i.d presumed it was Sheina Sam's wife
Didn't mean to cause offence
I'm really influenced by my Scots family and having been able to identify so many starting with suppositions
Automatic spell check and eye strain is making it really hard for me to how this out
Great news ...since adding one of Lithuanians got 100 new Fellman match hints on Ancestry but am goingbto have to hold off research til eyes rested
Boeing to your superior knowledge Justin can I ask if the dead relatives would have specific pattern is if paternal ffather still alive who next
Now it makes perfect sense that Samuel didn't name a son Samuel
( Except maybe the dead Manchester baby in early 1900',. * Will modify
Mystery could be resolved if I could afford those certificate s or maybe visit cemetery
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Hi Brigid,
I'm not offended ;D, just concerned that you may not have understood me.
Babies are given the Hebrew name of a deceased relative/ancestor. Without knowing the Hebrew names of Sam's grandchildren (not their secular or everyday names) it is impossible to judge whether the naming custom was being observed or not.
Do you have any specific examples?
As for the pattern/sequence, you've got me there and I can't give you an answer off the top of my head.
Justin
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The grandchildren names that we know are number one Rebecca who married Benjamin Block had 1911 census
Goose - Ada Block, 13
Dina, 11
Sarah, 9
Esther, 8
Minnie, 5
Barnet, 2
Rosie, 1
George Jacob Fellman had Maisie Miriam Fellman Roberts (adopted by Hallis)
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Barnet Jacob Fellman had only one daughter, Tillee. Also Samuel's grandchildren.
Other grandchildren
Muriel Ginsberg
Augusta Ginsberg
Children of Mary Fellman and Mose Ginsberg
1925 census Altimont Franklin
Eli Ness, 39
Bessie Ness, 36
Pearl, 12
Augusta, 9
Jeanette, 7
Louis, 5
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1913 New York
George Levine, 32- married to Celie (Sarah Levine)
Jeanette, 17
Raymond, 13
Mark doesn't know how his names Gershon/Marcus
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I have all those people in my Fellman file, but we do not know there Hebrew/Yiddish names!
I meant, do you have a clear example of someone named after a living person?
It strikes me that Augusta may have been an anglicised form of Gesa-Eida. That would indicate that May and Bessie named daughters after their deceased mother.
I looked into the sequence of naming for my great-grandfather and his 8 siblings. A clear pattern can be seen. I'll draw up a table or something similar to explain it to you.
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yes justin they did
american cousins information supplements ours
thanks for the offer of a table
i cant look at much at moment can i give you their emails when i have their permission im sure theyd like to thank you
geis eida = Augustus Edith ..and they have photos of some of the sibl;ings and descendents i have copiedpics to my ancestry tree which is open >
russian neighbours call me Babushka B ..they were going to help me prepare time travel detective treasure hunt but i have to go back to docs for an eye check reassurance
they are forgetting their Russian but have taught me a few words and I think the eldest can read Russian so I'll ask if any of those documents
thanks justin u're a true star ..will send u a limk
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Coming full circle
Had a laugh today with some amusing spellings .
On Samuel Lazurus Fellman American naturalisation document he is named as Samuel Loser Fellman
His daughter Gertrude who may have been baptised in Manchester as Golde
Was apparently known as Goldie in later years...unfortunately on her husbands naturalisation document she is named Oldie
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More developments ...i have flound
DNA links to lithuanian and belarus possibilities and have been able to add a few generstons on Samuel (leizer.mendal) side
Think his mother was Sorre Rubin
Am.matching with Rubin.family from lithuania
with first names Yankel girsh David rivka .
That could be where our Rebecca and David names come from .
Was Is it common for people to name a child after a previously deceased.one
I think Jane Seina Landsman and samuel may have 2 girls called Taube
One buried in manchester the other 1 became gertrude...oldy-goldy which would explain some of the age discrepencies as i had dob of 1st Taube/goldy
Ps A lot of dna matches dont show up because some posters put hebrew names others dont or have different spellings ..when i used Yankel instead of jankel i found more matches
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I will summarize findings so far
# deleted wromg topic board