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Research in Other Countries => US Lookup Requests => United States of America => US Completed Requests => Topic started by: brigidmac on Sunday 28 December 14 10:40 GMT (UK)
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My ggfather I have finally discovered that my Ggfather 's father, stepmother and 7 siblings emigrated to USA in around 1905 I wonder what became of them .did they stay in Brooklyn ..can anyone access their marriages + deaths please ;
The FELLMAN/FELDMAN family left Jakobstadt in Latvia then Russiain in 1891
spent several years in Prestwich Manchester UK ,
1n 1901 most of the family were in Birkenhead;Cheshire GB .
Head of family was Leizer-mendel/Lazurus /Samuel
his 2nd wife was called sheina/senna/Jane
girls names were mera/mary born or baptised 31/12/1880
bassa/bessie 1882
sora/sarah/celia may1885
khaya/Tilly /matilda march 1891 in jakobstadt
golda/gertie /gertrude /gertz born in prestwich 1893
Esther /lestraube b prestwich 1897 * Estelle ?
they were with brother David (Born nov 1886jRussia) a 14yrold watchmaker in 1901 in birkenhead,Liverpool
It looks like Bessie came to Usa in nov 1904 to stay with her brother "Barnet " Feldman of 487myrtle av Brooklyn
In march 1905 Samuel Feldman with wife +Sarah ,Tilly, Gerty, + Esther also to stay with Barnet
I looked up Barnet 's crossing and found him March 30th 1904 to stay with sister M ....surname illegible who'd paid his passage
His age looks like 32 on written page but is transcribed as 22 ,
My ggrandfather George Jacob Fellman born Russia 'died in Wales 1924 aged 52 Welsh hospital documents as being the 2nd of 12 siblings only 2 being dead (i found their deaths as infants)
Rebecca b 1870 married Elias Bloch in prestwhich 1897 and they lived rest of their lives in Scotland
I have no other records with a Barnet could it be David's other name .?
In 1910 I'm told Samuel aged 55+ Jeannie 42 are with Bessie,Celia Gertrude Matilda +Esther in Brooklyn ward the ages seem to be wrong for the older girls Bessie should be 31, and Celia(sarah)25. I don't have access to US records so will be grateful for any help
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This seems to be the family in 1910 which you refer to :-
Brooklyn Ward 21, Kings, New York
Samuel Fellman 55 Born Russia. First married at 28 years. Immigrated 1905. PA. Dealer. Wines.
Jennie Fellman 42 Born Russia. First married at 28 years. had 6 children and 3 survive ???
Bessie Fellman 23 Born Russia. Imm 1905. Operator. Shirtwaist.
Celia Fellman 21 Born Russia. Imm 1905. Operator. Shirtwaist.
Matilda Fellman 16 Born Eng. Imm 1905. Saleslady Dept Store.
Gertrude Fellman 15 Born Eng. Imm 1905. Saleslady Dept store.
Lestrbe (should be Estella) Fellman 11 Born Eng. Imm 1905.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M5HM-C5K
There are census and many other records on family search which may help your search.
https://familysearch.org/search
Sandra
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There was a marriage of Celia Fellman - 16 June 1912 - Kings NY. Cert No :- 5932
http://italiangen.org/records-search/brides.php
Groom was George J Devine -
George J Devine - Jun 16 1912 - 5932 - Kings L150 1234766
Sandra
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There are 2 marriages listed for a Bessie Fellaman in Kings - which are worth investigating further.
Bessie A Fellman - 10 Nov 1910 - Kings - Cert 10983
Irving L Bloch - Nov 10 1910 - Kings - 10983 - B420 961653
Perhaps the name should be Fullerman and not Fellman - they seem to show on the 1920 with Fullerman in-laws ???
and
Bessie Fellman - 26 Jan 1913 - Kings - Cert 961 -
Ely Ness - Jan 26 - 1913 - 961 - Kings
http://italiangen.org/records-search/brides.php
Sandra
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Thanks Sandra
I will have a look at that site . I might be able to look at USA census from my library without paying each time .
The printed form you sent has some mistakes ..with Samuel's + Bessie's age way out Celie should be older too if she is dressmaker Sarah aged17 from passenger records
but his wife's + younger children are nearer the mark. it's lovely nice to see their trades too.
their youngest daughter is "Esther" at birth ,school records + on British census 1901
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Possibility for Estella Fellman - Tupper Lake, Franklin, New York 1920 with a sister ???
Mose Ginsberg 40 Born Russia
May Ginsberg 38 Born England 1882.
Agusta Ginsberg 13 Born NY.
Muriel Ginsberg 10 Born NY.
Estelle Fellman 21 Born England 1899. Immigrated 1905. Sister.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJL8-QPF
Sandra
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Looks like Moses Ginsberg married May Fellman - 15 Sept 1905 - Kings - 7273 -
http://italiangen.org/records-search/grooms.php
Sandra
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I like both the Bessie possibilities ; the first because elder sister Rebecca married Benjamin Bloch so could well be a family connection
and the 2nd because she has the Fellman spelling which had been consistent since the 1850's from Latvia to Manchester in the 1890's and Liverpool early 1900's
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this would have meant that Mary/May was not married when she came to USA
I can't read what is written on her brother's passage arrival in march 1904
.I assumed it was her married name
if it's the same family Estelle has carried on the family tradition of altering their first names when they change town or country . the dates fit
Mary was actually born in Russia but her emigration would have stated from GB
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found david fellman watchmaker leaving GB dec 1904 arriving jan 1904 USA
he had £1 which has been crossed out to 5-0-0 presumably dollars !
lotsof things have been crossed and written over but there is a distinct 478 so maybe he too is heading for big brother Barnets residence .
thanks for the tip shirley i'm enjoying using
https://familysearch.
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IF May Ginsberg is one of the correct daughters of Samuel.
Here is a photograph of the daughter of Moses and May - Muriel Ginsberg at 102 years old.
https://www.generousact.org/press/ginsberg-scholarship-tupper-lake-students
Tupper Lake Free Press - Wednesday 11 November 2009 - 100 th Birthday (shows younger photos of her)
http://www.tlfreepress.com/tlfp091111/page5.pdf
104 th birthday - http://tupperlakepress.com/2013/11/muriel-at-104/
http://blog.pressrepublican.com/archive/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15516:all_tupper_lake_wishes_muriel_ginsberg_'happy_birthday'&catid=34:news-articles
FIND A GRAVE
Burial: Beth Joseph Cemetery Franklin County New York.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=51121153&ref=acom
Sandra
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Parents also buried at Beth Joseph Cemetery
GINSBERG Block 3
Mose H. GINSBERG Feb. 21, 1879 - Oct. 5, 1974
May GINSBERG Aug. 15, 1883 - Jan. 13, 1976
Muriel GINSBERG Nov. 1909 - no date
May - http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=51120255&PIpi=85716581
Mose - http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=ginsberg&GSiman=1&GScid=63968&GRid=32145529&
Sandra
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Hello,
I just wonder if an address check could be done re 478 Myrtle Avenue- it would ideally be 1905 census.
What was the family address in 1910?
I am just curious that's all, having found them on FS on the other thread.
Regards
Heywood
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Thanks so much Shirley .I do hope that May is the right one the Fellman?Feldman's seemed to come over with very little money too tho the parents were runninng a drapers shop in liverpool
...I'd need to see Mary + Moses marriage cert ,I suppose US ones list father's names + occupation
ps im ruling out Ely Ness as husband for bessie as she's still sg in 1910 census
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Hi I can't see the address on the page I saw it just seems tohave brooklyn ward 21 kings NY sorry am rushing to work now
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You've mis-read the name - its Sandra ;)
This family were travelling on a New York Passenger List - arriving 29 June 1940 - SS Cameronia and going to Aunt M Ginsberg in Tupper Lake.
Edith Gompertz aged 43 years born Dundee Scotland - ladies outfitter - also travelling with twin children - boy and girl aged 10 years.
Can see the children later as students in Texas. The female also marries in Alabama 1951.
Edith Gompertz - 11 April 1897 and died 15 November 1988
Last residence :- 37919 Knoxville, Knox, Tennessee - SSN Issues New York.
Sandra
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May was definately May Fellman Ginsberg
http://www.geni.com/discussions/127108
Sandra
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The other daughter of May and Mose was Augusta on the 1920 census. Augusta married Maurice Fried - 7 June 1934 Manhattan New York.
This is Augusta, husband and children at Cooper Street NY in 1940
Mannis A Fried 43
Augusta G Fried 33
Daughter Fried 4 (This daughter is on the link I gave earlier and which I will post again below.)
Daughter Fried 1
Irene Patrick 19
http://www.geni.com/discussions/127108
Augusta is Augusta Geraldine Ginsbery/Fried. Husband is Maurice Aaron Fried.
Sandra
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Maurice born 29 March 1897 and died November 1986 - Last residence :- 33577 Sarasota, Sarasota, Florida. SSN Issued in New York.
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE
Augusta Fried - Burial : Beth Joseph Cemetery Franklin County New York. 1907 -1999
Buyer for Ginsberg's department store. She was the daughter of Mose Ginsburg.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=fried&GSfn=augusta&GSiman=1&GScid=63968&GRid=32145626&
Maurice Fried - Burial: Beth Joseph Cemetery Franklin County New York.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=51121121&ref=acom
Sandra
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ps im ruling out Ely Ness as husband for bessie as she's still sg in 1910 census
Oh. ??? They married in 1913 ??? Perhaps this is Bessie Fellman Ness on FIND A GRAVE
Burial: Beth Joseph Cemetery Franklin County New York.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=ness&GSiman=1&GScid=63968&GRid=51120420&
Sandra
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Here is Bessie Fellman Ness, husband, children and father - Samuel Fellman in 1925
Altamont, Franklin 1925
Eli Ness 39 Clerk.
Bessie Ness 36
Pearl Ness 12
Augusta Ness 09
Jeanette Ness 07
Louis Ness 05
Samuel Fellman 72 Father. Born Russia. Retired.
1920 West Harris Street Savannah, Chatham, Georgia
Elis Ness 42 Born Russia.
Bessie Ness 40 Born Russia.
Pearl Ness 6
Augusta Ness 3 years and 5 months.
Jennie Ness 2 years 1 month
Sandra
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Tupper Lake, Franklin, New York 1930 - children all born NY.
Bessie E Ness 46 Born England 1884.
Pearl Ness 16 Agusta Ness 13
Janet Ness 12 Lew P Ness 10
Sandra
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Reply 15 - referred to a family joining Aunt May Fellman Ginsberg. The son of Edith was Kenneth Anthony Martin Gompertz
Kenneth Gompertz - 16 Nov 1929 - 15 Jan 2010 - SSN Issued New York
Kenneth Gompertz posted these messages in 2000
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/LIGHT/2000-03/0953163660
http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.bloch/14.33.34/mb.ashx
Sandra
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There is an article - " 2 Hitch-Hike 2000 miles at a cost of 10 dollars" in the Elmira Gazette - Monday Evening July 25 th 1949. It refers to the Gompertz twins hitch-hiking in 19 "hops" to see there mother Edith.
http://www.fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html
Sandra
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Marriage of Eli Ness and Bessie Fellman is listed in marriage licenses in The Daily Standard Union - Saturday January 11 th 1913.
http://www.fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html
Sandra
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There was a marriage of Celia Fellman - 16 June 1912 - Kings NY. Cert No :- 5932
http://italiangen.org/records-search/brides.php
Groom was George J Devine -
George J Devine - Jun 16 1912 - 5932 - Kings L150 1234766
Sandra
This was the correct marriage for celia.
This is the daughter of Celia Fellman Levine and George J Levine in 1940 16 Elm Street, Ellenville, Ulster, New York.
Berlin Cramer 26
Janet Cramer 27 Born NY.
Susan Cramer 2
Lived at Kew Gardens, Long Island, New York in 1935.
Sandra
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The Kingston Daily Freeman - Tuesday Evening 25 January 1954 has an obituary for Janet Cramer daughter of Celia Fellman Levine and George Devine.
http://www.fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html
Burial Hebrew Aid Society Cemetery, Wawarsing. The funeral was one of the largest attended funerals in the village. Parents had moved to Ellenville 15 years previous.
Sandra
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found david fellman watchmaker leaving GB dec 1904 arriving jan 1904 USA
he had £1 which has been crossed out to 5-0-0 presumably dollars !
lotsof things have been crossed and written over but there is a distinct 478 so maybe he too is heading for big brother Barnets residence .
thanks for the tip Sandra i'm enjoying using
https://familysearch.
mustn't forget to eat = go to work this pm !
There is a naturalisation for David Fellman born 20 October 1886 - Petition for Naturalization - 10 Sept 1926 - Southern District, New York. Arrived Philadelphia PA 10 Jan 1905 on the Haverford. Living at 662 3 rd Ave Brooklyn NY. Have no children.
Sandra
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David and Sadie Fellman.
1930 census - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X4NB-RHQ
David first married age 31 years - Sadie at 30 years.
1940 census - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQ1R-PW1
Sandra
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The marriage of David and Sadie.
Sadie Froelick - Mar 28 1920 - 3983 - Kings
David Fellman - Mar 28 1920 - 3983 - Kings -
http://italiangen.org/records-search/grooms.php
Sandra
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Thanks for doing all that reseaerch sandra (+ apologies for getting your name wrong)
The Bloch cousins we already know about chidren of Rebbecca Fellman b.Russia +Benjamin Bloch
were all born in Dundee but lived in Glasgow in 1911
It's good to see that the d has been dropped from Feldman in some of your posts
I saw all The David Feldman's but couldn't work out which was best bet ; extra clues were in the image of 1940 census where it says he is a watchmaker in a jewellary dept store
also father's name of samuel shows this is the right one . the 1930 transcription has him born England but he was born in Russia
I've worked out how to see the address on US census it's along the side in 1st column ..i was looking at top as in GB census
ps research into Fellman's in Latvia + GB is on thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702215.msg5515877#msg5515877
beginners board
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Beth Joseph Cemetery - OUR MOTHER - BESSIE FELLMAN NESS - OUR SISTER PEARL NESS CLEMENTS - In Loving Memory
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~frgen/franklin/altamont/beth_joseph/ness_bessie.htm
Sandra
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Thank you for your message.
I think the information relating to Bessie Fellman is positive. The Irving Bloch - Bessie Fellman doesn't look good when you view them on the 1920 census - the in-laws are names Fullerman.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJRN-NQN
The link in Reply 25 shows the marriage license listed in the newspaper for Ely Ness and Bessie Fellman.
http://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2014/Brooklyn%20NY%20Standard%20Union/Brooklyn%20NY%20Standard%20Union%201913/Brooklyn%20NY%20Standard%20Union%201913%20-%200138.pdf
The above memorial at Beth Joseph Cemetery (where other members of the family are buried) is also for Bessie Fellman Ness.
Happy New Year 2015
Sandra
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Another newspaper article confirming May Ginsberg was indeed May Fellman - article on the 62 wedding anniversary
http://fultonhistory.com/Newspapers%20Disk3/Watertown%20Times/Watertown%20NY%20Daily%20Times%20Jan%201968%20Grayscale.pdf/Watertown%20NY%20Daily%20Times%20Jan%201968%20Grayscale%20-%200498.pdf
The Daily Standard Union Brooklyn Saturday January 18th 1908 gives address for Mr and Mrs Fellman 274 Floyd Street
http://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2014/Brooklyn%20NY%20Standard%20Union/Brooklyn%20NY%20Standard%20Union%201908/Brooklyn%20NY%20Standard%20Union%201908%20-%200210.pdf
Sandra
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Happy New year to you too Sandra ; you're right about Bessie Bloch the in-laws have the wrong first names and birth origins too ;
It seems quite likely that sometimes Fellman siblings who were born in russia get listed as born in England as that is where they originated from ;
I think I have enough to be sure that May Ginsberg is my Mary /May Fellman which means Estelle is Esther(why isn't she named as sister-in-law ? isn't it relation to the head of household on US census)?
David's watchmaking profession confirms he's the right one + not the one I had going back to Russia marrying + having child there in 1911 .
I need some proof that Celie is Sarah
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How do i check that May Ginsberg ,Bessie Ness , Celie Devine, Ida Gossman, Estelle fellman
are siblings to David + Barnett Fellman ?
A Brooklyn 1910 census has Samuel +Jeannie FELLMAN aged 42 ,living with Bessie , Celia , matilda aged 16,gertrude aged 15 + lestraube aged 11
I'm sure this is the same family who are in liverpool 1901 listed as Samuel aged 46 ,children May ,Bessie, Sarah ,David , 2nd wife Jane(Sheina) and their children;Tilly, Gertrude (Golde)+ Esther
+
In 1905 on boats
their names are given as "Samuel ,Sana sarah ,tilly, gertie and ester ;
Barnet, David , Bessie all seem to have made the crossing alone in 1904 (can't find May )
GB school records + trade directories + census addresses helped me fill in gaps between 1891 +1901
and gave alternative names for father as Mendel (lazurus/Samuel)
His hebrew names was to Leizer-mendel first wife Geis-ada (Edith)
Above children were baptised as Mera. Bassa Sore. David .Khaya born in jacobstadt Russia
gertrude may have been baptised as Golde in Prestwich
Esther was born in GB
can any super sleuths confirm if their names change again in USA ? is Sarah now Celie
Gertrude or Tilly ...Ida
were they registered at a school in brooklyn before they became "sales ladies"
was Esther registered as Estelle
do any of their marriages or deaths give fathers name .
and who was living at 478 Mrtyle Avenue in 1900 and 1910
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708494.0 topic posted on USA board
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Brooklyn Assembly District 17, Kings, New York 1920 shows Celia and George with children.
George I Levine 32 Born Russia. Travelling Salesman.
Celia Levine 31 Born Russia.
Janete Levine 6 Born NY
Raymond Levine 3 years and 8 months. Born NY
Edith Levine 1 year and 9 months. Born NY.
Sandra
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Van Sickler Ave Brooklyn, Kings, New York 1930 - missing daughter Edith on this census.
George Levine 42 Born Russia. Immigrated 1904. Dry Goods. Age at marriage 27 years.
Celia Levine 38 Born England. Immigrated 1910. Age at marriage 20 years.
Jeanette Levine 17 Born NY. Stenographer. Pillow Factory.
Raymond Levine 13 Born NY.
Sandra
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1940 son Raymond Levine is married on living 21 Main Street Ellenville, Ulster, New York.
Raymond Levine 23 Born NY. Construction.
Naomi Levine 22 Born NY.
Sandra
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George and Celia still at Van Sicklen Avenue in 1940 - Edith Levine also shows.
George J Levine 54 Born Russia. Peddler. Naturalized.
Celle Levine 48 Born Russia. Naturalized.
Edith Levine 22 Born Georgia. Stenographer. Insurance Co.
Sandra
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Found another one :- Estelle/Ester Fellman. Park Street Tupper Lake, Franklin, New York 1930 - this also shows where Edith Levine was in 1930.
Abeham G Clifford 43 Born NY. Merchant. gift Shop.
Estelle L Clifford 31 Born Eng 1899. Immigrated 1905. Father and Mother born Russia.
Janet L Clifford 7 Born NY
Edith L Levine 12 Born NY. Niece.
Charles Ingham 25 Lodger. Clerk. Bank.
Sandra
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1940 Altamont, Franklin, New York
Jack Clifford 52 Born NY. Proprietor. Retail Store.
Estelle Clifford 40 Born Eng.
Janet Clifford 17 Born NY.
Cammen Henry 19 Housekeeper. Private Family.
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE
Estella (1901 - 1987 slightly different birth year) and Jack Clifford (1886 - 1955)
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=51119976&ref=acom
Beth Joseph Cemetery -
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~frgen/franklin/altamont/beth_joseph/clifford_jack.htm
Jack
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=clifford&GSiman=1&GScid=63968&GRid=51119969&
Sandra
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Estelle Clifford - 15 Oct 1900 - April 1987 - Last residence :- 12983 Saranac Lake, Franklin, New York. SSN issued New York.
Sandra
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Here is Bessie Fellman Ness, husband, children and father - Samuel Fellman in 1925
Altamont, Franklin 1925
Eli Ness 39 Clerk.
Bessie Ness 36
Pearl Ness 12
Augusta Ness 09
Jeanette Ness 07
Louis Ness 05
Samuel Fellman 72 Father. Born Russia. Retired.
1920 West Harris Street Savannah, Chatham, Georgia
Elis Ness 42 Born Russia.
Bessie Ness 40 Born Russia.
Pearl Ness 6
Augusta Ness 3 years and 5 months.
Jennie Ness 2 years 1 month
Sandra
Expanding on this family.
Tupper Lake Press 24 March 2004 - Janet Ness Kramer born 30 November 1917 Savannah G eorgia died 22 March 2004 at Mt Sinai Hospital New York. Daughter of Eli and Bessie Fellman Ness.
Husband was Leonard Kramer who died in 2001. Janet was predeceased by sister Pearl Ness.
Obituary:-
http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn84031109/2004-03-24/ed-1/seq-12/
Leonard S Kramer - 21 February 1917 - 10 June 2001
Last residence :- 10023 New York, New York, New York. SSN Issued New York.
FIND A GRAVE
Leonard S Kramer - Burial: Riverside Cemetery Saddle Brook Bergen County New Jersey.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=70367274&ref=acom
Janet Kramer :- http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=kramer&GSiman=1&GSsr=41&GScid=100185&GRid=70373486&
Sandra
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Daughter of Eli and Bessie - Sister of Janet Ness Kramer - Augusta Tancredi born 11 June 1916 died 17 August 2007 Warminster, Bucks, Pennsylvania.
Sandra
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Obituary for Charles J Chapman (husband of Janet L Clifford - daughter of Jack and Estelle) born 30 December 1921 and died 24 August 1998
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/CHAPMAN/1998-08/0904098938
FIND A GRAVE
Burial :- Gale, St. Lawrence County, New York.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=chapman&GSiman=1&GScid=2219738&GRid=41726880&
Sandra
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thanks Sandra i thought these were just possible marriages but there are several confirming features now linking May+ Celia to Estelle
Sarah/celia's daughter is called Edith ..this was her mother's name Geiss-Ada ( transcribed nee Edith Landsman on eldest daughter Rebecca'. scottish death cert)
I raised a topic ;"are they siblings ?" on a different board so will summarise all my findings on there .
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the married names for the girls so far look correct and we can add Estelle married Abraham (jack) Clifford
there are links between them ....
Estelle Fellman 21 is staying with sister May Ginsberg aged 38in 1920 NY census
Edith Levine daughter of Celie (named after her grandmother Edith Fellman ?) is staying with Estelle L Clifford 1930 tupperlake franklin NY
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Yes they all look definite. Lots of matches.
Sandra
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people do have the same names + birthdates tho so I want to have some cross refs before I chase up on the descendents ;
I classify May Ginsberg , Bessie Ness (does the 1925 census say that Eli + bessie were born in US only samuel F born russia )??+ Estelle Clifford + Celia Devine are
David marrying Sadie Fellman is a probable but there are several David fellman's
Ida gossman is only a possible
is she Gertrude ?
What happened to Tilly ?
And where was Barnet Fellman before GB and in USA ?
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Haven't a clue who Ida Gossman might be ? Where does that info pop up from ?
Sandra
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from a 1940 census with David fellman staying with sister Ida + nephew jack
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from a 1940 census with David fellman staying with sister Ida + nephew jack
Can you put the link on ?
The possibility I quoted in reply 29 - David and Sadie shows no others with them ?
Sandra
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summary of My great grandfather's sibling connections so far is
on http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708571.msg5518769#msg5518769 ;
this does not include Rebecca Bloch in prestwich manchester + moved to scotland or my G gfather ; George jacob Fellman I don't know their Hebrew names as latvian recorda are missing for 1968-76 Barnet not on any census there either
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Explain the Ida Gossman connection - I haven't quoted a David Fellman with a sister Ida and nephew Jack ? Put the link on here ?
The other thread is a repetion of your opening post and a summary of what I have found so far. Nothing to tell me about Ida Gossman ???
Sandra
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yes sorry i was adding a link to the summary before got your message
I may have got the info on David from a thread on Genes Reunited ; I'll have to reread
here is the link to the latvian reseearch with the girls original names if you are interested
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702215.27
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more name links + variations
From school records ;
ON 26/10/ 1891 Mary ,Betsy +Sarah Fellman are admitted to Manchester Jews school .
father's name is given as Lazarus ,all born Russia ,their address is 101 Bury New Road
In 1898 Golda Fellman b1893 is admitted to Manchester Jews school her father is given as Samuel of 7 bury new road
on 09/01/1900 Matilda Fellman DoB15/3/1891 of 36 Price st Birkenhead is admitted to St John church of England school her parent /guardian is named as George but maybe her 30yrold big brother my ggfather took her to be registered,
there is also a Rebecca Fellman at this school but no details given
school records from 1902 has Gertie Fellman of 36 price street dob 4/10/1893 entering birkenhead st john church of england school
i have not seen the census from NY 1910 but it looks as if Samuel + jeanie with 5 girls are the same family the ages of gertrude ,matilda + "lestraube"(esther) fit but Celia(sarah:sore)and Bessie(besa )are 5yrs out and Samuel is too young to have adult daughters must be a mistranscription
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Its best to keep all the information on one family condensed into one thread - a lot of this is becoming repetitive information from other threads and sources. It gets difficult for people to follow and look through all the links to see what you have or have not. If the information appertains to the UK add to the UK thread. If you have new information on the USA immigrants enter it on that thread. otherwise we end up going round and round in circles. ;)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708410.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702300.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702215.msg5451874#msg5451874
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1345669
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1324681?page=0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708494.0
Regards
Sandra
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There are so many threads/message board posts that information is getting repetitive and that makes it extremely difficult for people to know what information you have and what you haven't.
if all of the info is in one place - we have all the background info and can cross-reference, it more easily.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708410.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702300.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702215.msg5451874#msg5451874
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1345669
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1324681?page=0
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1300276
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708494.0
Sandra
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I thought we weren't supposed to put refe to Genes Reunited threads on here many people who use that don't come on here + vice versa
one of the reasons I liked Rootschat was there didn't seem to be restictions about posting on the same person if you are doing a different angle ;
also like me people on here may only read the forum page that concerns them ; I would like to keep a separate forum for research into the past Fellman Latvian origins
Of Course I don't want people to be looking for information already researched so will put a link between forums
When i'm reading threads i don't like to wade thru pages + pages of .so think being able to start a new thread on a different Forum page with summary of info found so far is useful.
Thanks + apologies to anyone I've confused
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I think the policy of this forum is to keep information all together and not keep raising threads on the same family - you can summarise on the same thread. If the thread goes "dead" you can re-activate it to see if there is any further interest.
Posting this because I've not read it elsewhere - A David Fellman born 1886 and aged 18 years - single - watchmaker - last residence Liverpool for 12 years - going to Tupper Lake. NY. Lots of crossing out and over writing making this passenger entry difficult to read.
Still haven't found Ida Gross man with a David Fellman and a nephew Jack - could you please put a link to that information so that I can take a look at her. ?
Sandra
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sometimes the forums cross over .
I 'm not sure how to move threads to different Forums
The Fellman family started in Russia/Latvia ....then to manchester area Uk then liverpool now I'm finding them in USA so which forum is the most appropriate .
How do I mark a topic as answered ??
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It was from notes I made in library while looking at passenger records US + census
using find my past
i'll look again tomorro thanks for not giving up on me .
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You can mark a topic "completed" within a 24 hour period from when you started it by using the modify button on the first post and marking it COMPLETED in the subject line.
After 24 hours you will need to ask a moderator to "COMPLETE" for you.
If you wish a topic to be moved then you also need to ask a moderator to do that for you.
The USA topic is fine, if we find something new we will add to it. Anyone reading through your UK threads would add to those. If you have new information you can add to either at any time.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Sandra ;)
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I am curious about Ida Gossman because I did tentatively look at one particular Ida and Max Gossman (no David Fellman) but her immigration date didn't inspire me to think she was Matilda/Tilly/Ida or Gertie/Gertrude ???
Sandra
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My ggfather is listed in 1920 hospital admissions as being 2nd of 12 siblings ,2 dead
here are the children name varients and dates of birth registrations in jakobpils
with 1st wife Gies -Ada (Edith) ;
1. Rebecca 1870-1960
2.George Jacob /george/ geo j 1871-1924
3 Dvora 1879-died 1880
4 Mera /mary /may 1880 31st dec
5 Bera Betsy Bessie 16th feb 1882
6 Aaron mottel 1883-died 1884
7sora sarah celia 30th may 1885
8 david 6 nov 1886
with 2nd wife sheina /jane /jeannie nee Landman
9 Taube 1890- died 1891
10 Khaya 17th april 1891 Tilly /Matilda
11 gertrude golde gertz b cheetham Lancs UK 1892
12 Esther / Ester /estelle b cheetham 1897
but maybe Barnet born approx 1872 is number 3 and little half sister Taube was not counted
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Re sandra's comment about too many threads to cross reference
On Roots chats
Angliscised names ; is a general topic but specific egs of how about how my Fellman family's latvian first names changed when coming to UK so could be moved to or general chat general interest
"2 boats liverpool-philedelphia same children "; should be on immigration board ; it's not about the same family ;just some general Fellman s I found
"Finding Great grandfather-Russian latvian relatives" is a special interest
"Feldman Girls" is a US look up
This page "are they siblings ? " is on a general interest page ; the summary of variation in names could be useful to people searching other families .
any advice on how ;where to move these threads gratefully received .
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I have not said there are to many threads to cross reference or that you should move the threads. I merely suggested that in future you keep all the information relating to the Fellman family together. If you want to summarise - summarise on the thread where the information was originally, no need to create a new one.
Sandra
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It was me who thought I had too many threads ; spent ages re reading long threads
to find where I had ref to mother's maidem name Landsman only to discover it was in a pm
I've just re read my sisters thread on Genes Reunited ..
I want to consolidate all info about Fellmans in latvia on the emigration board
angliscised names on a common board
connections to my G g father on UK board
and the Fellman sisters info looking for descendents. on a US board . with special thanks to Sandra for comng up with so many married names
This consolidation may involve asking moderators to move threads to diff forums to me cutting + pasting info + deleting superflous threads like this one .
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apparently there is a Barnett Fellman on the 1920 census for brooklyn district 4 kings county
b1870 russia
with wife Sarah and child Jacob
I hope he's the right one as the Jacob (yankel) patronym goes back in this family to 1820's
Jacob is my own ggfather's middle name and his gfather's first name .
you are very lucky to be able to access 1920 and 1940 census in Usa , have to wait another 6 years before we can access 1921 census in GB
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Hi brigidmac,
Sandra is amazing isn't she :) so much information!
I don't think that is your Barnett - this looks like him in 1910- several children all born Russia.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M5QW-LDF
Regards
Heywood
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yes sandra is amazing
this Barnet is a definite possibility
He could have stayed in russia because he was already married when his father +brother GEORGE JACOB came to prestwich in 1981
Rebecca eldest daughter married in prestwich 1886
Betsy Mary David Sarah were enrolled in manchester jewish school in 1891 by father lazarus/samuel
i'm not sure exactly what year 2nd wife and younger children joined the father
Khaya akaTilly was born in russia 1891
Taube born 1890 may have died in prestwich in 1893
So sometime between 1891
gertrude + esther were born in Prestwich approx 1895 +1898
my ggfather was born 1871
his sister Rebecca also around 1871; marriage has her aged 19 but census +death age makes her birth year nearer 1872 she also has several children by 1910
As george jacob is listed as 2nd eldest
elder sibling would be Barnets age
i'll have to go back to latvian records to see if i can find births of his children .
or look if any of the addresses fit could he have been at myrtle avenue in 1910 .
l
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I believe the 1910 census for Barnet should be parents born Russia , samuel born in NY and other children in UK
i'm farly sure Barnet is the jacob fellman in GB on 1901 census
Copied from thread on Angliscised names ; I don't know how to do Quotes yet so copy/pasted
in 189? (date crossed over )
Adolf Feldman of Bent St was enrolled at manchester jews school
transcription has father's name Jacob Fellman but the original clearly has Barius J Fellman on handwritten school ledger
did Barius become Barnet in USA ? did he send his 1st born to GB with his grandmother + aunties and stay in russia ?
In April 1903 Annie + Isreal Feldman also of BENT ST were enrolled in this school,
thier father is Jacob Feldman date of withdrawal from school looks like 1904
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thanks for all help so far
By googling I found a Matilda Fellman mentioned on an old post . She married leo jampolsky ..
the references to her father are correct giving his russian birth names as lazarus mendle Fellman + saying he died 5th june 1928 in Brooklyn named as Lazurus Soloman fellman on death cert ..but I don't know where to get confirmation of this .
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Another possible marriage is matilda fellman b1891 m. leo jampolsky
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FIND A GRAVE
Lazarus Solomon Fellman - 5 June 1928 (date is interment)
Burial: Mount Judah Cemetery Ridgewood Queens County New York.
Plot: NEW HEBREW SCHOOL
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=96985695&ref=acom
Sandra
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New York Death Index - Lasaras S Fellman - 4 Jun 1928 - Kings, New York - Certificate Number:
12849
http://italiangen.org/records-search/deaths.php
Sandra
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Re: Feldman girls
« Reply #66 on: Today at 22:16 » From the USA thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708494.msg5578502#msg5578502
Quote
FIND A GRAVE
Lazarus Solomon Fellman - 5 June 1928 (date is interment)
Burial: Mount Judah Cemetery Ridgewood Queens County New York.
Plot: NEW HEBREW SCHOOL
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=96985695&ref=acom
Sandra
Re: Feldman girls
« Reply #67 on: Today at 22:23 » on the USA thread
New York Death Index - Lasaras S Fellman - 4 Jun 1928 - Kings, New York - Certificate Number:
12849
http://italiangen.org/records-search/deaths.php
Sandra
228 Atlantic Street Long Beach, Los Angeles, California. 1940
Leo Jampolsky 49 Boprn Russia. Owner Manager. Date Shop.
Tillie Jampolsky 47 Born England. Owner Clerk/ Date Shop.
Lester Jampolsky 23 Born Georgia.
Gerald Jampolsky 15 Born California
Arthur Jampolsky 21 Norn North Dakota.
1930 Census - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCJG-DK2
Sandra
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Leo Jampolsky - 24 Mar 1891 Russia - Resides 228 Atlantic Avenue. Long beach California. Own Businesss. person who will know him at that address :- Sol Jampolsky.
1942
Sandra
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Leo Jampolsky - 24 March 1891 - Passed Away February 1982
Last Residence: 94920 Belvedere Tiburon, Marin, California. SSN issued California (Before 1951)
California Death Index said he died Marin. California.
Sandra
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Leo Jampolsky married Matilda Feldman - 29 December 1912 - Kings - New York - Certificate Number: 14267
http://italiangen.org/records-search/brides.php
Sandra
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Merricourt, Dickey, North Dakota 1920 Census
Leo Jampolsky 26
Tillie M Jampolsky 26
Lester M Jampolsky 3 years and 6 months.
Arthur J Jampolsky 9 months
Salomon Jampolsky 24 Brother born Russia.
Sandra
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This thread is also on the lighter side - - its getting complicated.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708571.msg5578531
Sandra
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Thanks Sandra that was really quick ..this family seems to get around but could be connected to our Brooklyn Fellman s.
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You're very welcome but it is complicating things having 2 threads on the same family.
Thread needs joined to the USA -
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708571.msg5578531
Sandra
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I'm sorry i don't understand what you mean about only 2 posts being moved to this thread . I haven't worked out how to move things from 1 post to another .
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Because suddenly we had 2 threads I thought a moderator was moving the posts but I can see what happened now. You posted on this at 22-06 - I started to reply and gave 2 answers and came off this thread - but by that time you had posted on the other thread at 22-15 which brought it to the top of the pile and I mistakenly started to post on that thread when I returned.
That's why it is silly to type about the same family on 2 separate threads - it just creates confusion. See what I mean ???
Sandra
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In case anyone notices the title has changed ;
it's because I thought Feldman was the spelling they sometimes used in USA
I'm reliably informed by Russian researcher that they are distinct from Feldman's with "d"
the latter is a more frequent spelling originating from word for " field man"
the "Fell" spelling is from a word meaning cloth felt? ;
So even in Latvia my Fellmans were quite rare ... making them so much easier to trace as there are less of them ....the mistranscribed spelling does occur sometimes
but this family was far more consitant over the years with their Surname than their 1st names .
I'm still tracking down the elder brother ?-Jacob F in Manchester
plus 2 siblings i don't know the names of +
+ what became of Gertrude after 1901 ..
then will move on to look for living descendents .in USA + the Blochs in Scotland
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Just to finish off the Jampolsky family. Lester son of Leo and Tillie.
1930 Census - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCJG-DK2
Lester Jampolsky born 6 May 1916 passed away Dec 1983 - Last residence - 07042 Montclair, Essex, New Jersey. Last Benefit: 07044 Verona, Essex, New Jersey. SSN Issued New Jersey before 1951.
Sandra
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Couple of Obituaries which will be self explanatory. ;)
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sfgate/obituary.aspx?pid=174292390
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/marinij/obituary.aspx?n=patricia-louise-jampolsky-pat-powell&pid=93936459
Sandra
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Goodness at least one of my Nana's cousins was still alive in 2007 (*) Jampolsky..I really should have looked in USA earlier and
the wife of Arthur Jampolsky ,only died last fortnight ....My mother would have loved to have made some contact .hopefully i'll be able to link up with their children . The Fellman genes seem to favour long lives My mother + her aunts were very healthy + active in their 70's ,the eldest died in a car crash 15 years ago ;the youngest in early 80's suffers ve badly from artheritus but i'll ring her tonight to tell how many cousins I can now name + place . my mother mid 80's chops her own firewood goes rambling + does scottish dancing ......tho now she's old she doesn't do all 3 in 1 day !
(*) Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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The Jampolsky mentioned appears to still be living. I will send you what I found via personal message.
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Here is Bessie Fellman Ness, husband, children and father - Samuel Fellman in 1925
Altamont, Franklin 1925
Eli Ness 39 Clerk.
Bessie Ness 36
Pearl Ness 12
Augusta Ness 09
Jeanette Ness 07
Louis Ness 05
Samuel Fellman 72 Father. Born Russia. Retired.
1920 West Harris Street Savannah, Chatham, Georgia
Elis Ness 42 Born Russia.
Bessie Ness 40 Born Russia.
Pearl Ness 6
Augusta Ness 3 years and 5 months.
Jennie Ness 2 years 1 month
Sandra
Daughter of Bessie Fellman Ness and Eli - Pearl Ness Clements - 27 September 1913 passed away June 1990 - SSN issued - New York (Before 1951)
https://www.generousact.org/funds/pearl-ness-clements-scholarship-fund
http://suce.syr.edu/Alumni/EtaPiUpsilon/howtocontribute.htm
https://www.cappex.com/scholarship/listings/Pearl-Ness-Clements-Scholarship-Fund/-s-d-19924
Sandra
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Janet (nee Ness) Kramer - 30 November 1917 passed away 21 March 2004
Last Residence - 10023 New York.
Sandra
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Thanks to all who've helped
here's a link to tracing the latvian /russian origins of this family
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702215.18
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Update ;
The female Fellmans appear to have shaved between 1 +4 years off their ages when coming over on the boats . they mostly retained their new ages for census ,weddings , naturalization + even death
would May Bessie + sarah/celia have increased their chances of marriage after 1905
aged 22,20 and 17 rather than 25 ,24 + 20 respectively
there mother may well have preferred to stay aged 36 from 1901 t0 1905
tilly's age on boat was mistranscibed as 4 but 14 was correct however in 1910 census she is only 16 and should be 20 !
what about gertrude + esther /estelle
why would they be given ages of 10 and 4 when brit birth records clearly show their years of birth as 1892 + 1897 so on boat + 1905 NY census they should have been at least 13 + 8 even taking
Russian birth records + Brit school dates concur with the 1901 census ages + it's not a case of rounding up ......any other theories ?
I wonder if estelle Clifford's children knew that she was nearly 90 when she died ..not 86
Manchester research 1890-1898 on this family
com/forum/index.php?topic=724944.msg5692010#msg5692010
Ps Sandra ; my mother was delighted to know what had become of her mother's american Aunts + Cousins + so many of them lived healthy long interesting lives BIG THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK .
I've been doing some Scottish research + found the eldest Bloch cousin Elias who died aged 88 in1986 .+ am slowly coming up with potential marriages for the girls + their descendents .
Not contacted any living descendants yet tho .
was a research doctor
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having seen a copy of David Fellman's petition for naturalisation
reading carefully found extra data
the petition was made on 1st july 1987
1 witness was Lester Froelich of hagaman Av , Brooklyn
(an in-law ?)
+ wife Sadie is down as being from Austria .
It has a faint stamp across regarding an act of may 1926
i think it says june 26th 40co 157 ....brigade honourable discharge .....1918
I don't have anything about his military record yet .
was told of a census with Davi aged 39 Sadie 36 with another David Fellman aged 17 and Sara aged 14
could they have had children after all
who'd left home by 1940
(possibly the 1930 census couple are not ours ; David Felman ...note spelling + immigration date 1906 not 05 + Sadie from Chechoslavakia
I want to be sure of all my facts ..seeing original docu definitely helps . I'm sure our David is the watchmaker even if once in US he insists he was born in Manchester where he'd lived since the age of 4 or 5 but various Latvian+ British records have him as born jakopils near Riga in Russian-Latvia
Thanks for all the help so far with the US details ....I have actually made contact with a second cousin of my nana
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Quote ....I have actually made contact with a second cousin of my nana
Excellent, that is good news - a few more gaps filled now ;)
Sadra
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Update
Thanks to DNA test have made contact with 2 descendent's of Celia Fellman and George Levine
It was very helpful to know descendants surnames as the Fellman name seems to die out with males dying young
And having no children or only 1 girl each .
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There is also an answer to what happened to Gertrude Fellman b 1895
She married Irvine E Fox
they had 2 daughters in a 1920 census Charlotte and Janet ..I don't have access to US records but found this lived on a moose site
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Pleased you made contact.
1930 Main Street Bradley Beach, Monmouth, New Jersey.
Irving E Fox 41 Born New Jersey. Stationary Store Proprietor.
Gertrude Fox 33 Born England. immigrated 1907. Naturalized.
Charlotte H Fox 14 Born NJ
Janet Fox 11 Born NJ
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4XB-GV4
Sandra
1920 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M4TP-RBS
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1940 Fourth Avenue Bradley Beach, Monmouth, New Jersey.
Irving Fox 50 and Gertrude Fox 40
Transcribed Jacob on anc (should be Janet) Fox 21 Born NJ. Daughter.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4TC-T3H
WW1 Draft - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZJX-DCY
WW2 Draft - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DTNW-HZF?i=2492&cc=1861144
Sandra
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You can see many of the US census records on www.familysearch.org.
Here they are in 1920 - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M45Y-S1X
1930 - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4XB-GV4
1940 - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4TC-T3H
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Irving Fox - 22 May 1889 - passed away February 1969
Last Residence 33161 Miami, Miami-dade, Florida.
SSN issued New Jersey (Before 1951)
Sandra
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Thanks so much
I can't actually see the links to family search. ..I ll have another go getting on to that site
This really does seem to be a female dominated family ...so many grandchildren named after geisa-ada (Augusta Edith) and seina (Jane Janet ) but
no grandsons were named after lazurus Solomon Samuel .
Unless Lester Tilly.s son ...ts a variation of the name Lazurus or their were some infant deaths .)
Rebecca's second son was named Barnet maybe after her recently deceased brother ..
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The photo of celia.s father says soloman fellman ..RABBI ..
So thats something totally new
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we are piecing together what we know and sharing photos
my grandfather s younger sister sarah stayed close to the half sisters and one named a daughter after her fathers first wife
which is more unusual than those who named their daughters janet after the step mother who raised them .
It's a real accopmplishment
..I still hope to find the older sibling ..I suspect it was a girl b abt1869 who
married in latvia the dna may show a link but most of the connections havent put their trees on the site .
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It seems like the Fellman girls and their descendants were fun enterprising dynamic ladies
Their descendants are very helpful and I hope to talk on phone soon .
big surprise a lovely photo of great great grandfather now going by name of Solomon Lasarus Fellman ...rabbi
Mum and I have been speculating if it was a job or could be combined with shopkeepers work or if he became a Rabbi when retired ...
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Id like to take the opportunity to thank you all for help and let you know that im going to speak to a granddaughter of Estelle Fellman ...I believe her mother my granma Maisies cousin is still alive.!
Sandra thanks so much for all the names you supplied me with
Also i know realise that the missing elder sister was Rebecca Bloch so the sibling im missing is after 1874 before 1887
Out of the 12 full siblings can now name
4 boys and deceased unnamed baby boy
+ 5 girls ?
And Rachel who died in manchester who was either a sister or wife of unfound brother ( maybe nathan Philman )
Apologies for multiple threads when i started
Needed some on different forums
I will now close this thread and keep the one on emigrants board
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Great that you have made alot of progress with your research and made some connections along the way.
Regards
Sandra ;)
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This is what part of my tree looks like now
George Jacob FELLMAN with his parents and full siblings
I don't have photos for profiles of
# modified
Rebecca may Bernard or Bessie
But at least I have images from records
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And here.s half sister Estelle. With rosette of Manchester replacing a photo
her mother Jane landsman ...picture is a Manchester shop
Tilly and Gertrude are the other half sisters
I also have photos of some of George Jacobs nephew and neices
Thanks especially to Sandra the photos I have are from living descendants or obituaries and newspaper reports