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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Oxfordshire Lookup Requests => Oxfordshire => England => Oxfordshire Completed Look Up Requests => Topic started by: alanmack on Saturday 03 January 15 00:19 GMT (UK)
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This has been bugging me for years as I can't find the answer even hunting high and low with a certain search engine.
In the 1970's I helped a friend move some furniture from his great aunt's house in a very feudal village close to Thame. I presume it was in Oxfordshire but as it is fairly close to the county boundaries it could be in Bucks or Berks as that was the direction from which we came.
The lady in question was the retired schoolmistress and remained living in the former "Bear Inn" which had names and dates from the 1700's scratched on the leaded lights of the ground floor windows. The only other things I can remember about the village was that it had no pub and the church had a clock with a twenty-four hour dial rather than twelve.
Can anyone help me identify the village please?
alanmack
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I can't help I'm afraid, but am intrigued by the story.
If I were you I would slightly alter the subject heading - just in case the name of the Inn changed between the 70s and today. ( maybe something like - "looking for Old Inn - possibly called the Bear Inn" or similar wording, and perhpas even throw in possible counties. I just think that this way you may attract more people.
I think the 24 hour clock should help you narrow it down, but google throws up all sorts of irrelevant things.
Was the Bear Inn solely accommodation and not a pub?
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There was a Bear Inn at Souldern; and there was the "Bear and Ragged Staff " at Brookhampton. Not sure about 24 hour clocks though.
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Thank you both for you replies. In my first post I stuck to including what I was sure of but I can add a few things of which I am less sure.
I saw the church clock face myself but for the life of me I cannot remember whether it had a minute hand or not. I think not.
The Bear Inn had been owned (as everything in the village still was, bar possibly the church) by them in the Big House. It had been closed for a very long time and was probably unlikely to appear in any trade directories. The former schoolmistress had lived there most of her adult life. i.e. since appointment. She was unmarried and around 80 years old when I met her and delightful.
Hope these additions help not hinder.
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So you were moving this lady out of the Bear Inn? Her name and place of death won't be of any help I suppose?
Are you saying that the Bear Inn or the Big House had been closed for a long time?
And your friend - you don't mention ages, but if he is still alive, is it possible to contact him to ask? :-\
A village without a pub would have to be fairly unusual. ;) Can you recall anything else identifiable about the village? Location? hilltop or by a river for example? Winding road or straight road through the village? Location of church/graveyard? The Church is possibly one of the buildings which may have changed the least since the 70s.
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Using PubsHistory.com, and their list of pubs from 1869, there are the following in Oxfordshire:
Bear, H. Allison, Market place, Banbury
Bear, J. Banbury, Bell street, Henley-upon-Thames
Bear, J. Bennett, Fritwell, Bicester
Bear, J. Dewbury, Sheep street, Bicester
Bear, E. Godfrey, Alfred street, Oxford
Bear, J. Haynes, Woodstock
Bear Tap, G. Clarke Woodstock
Bear Ragged Staff, Mrs. E. Wixon, Brookhampton, Wallingford
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Using the same site#s search facility, the following come up in Buckinghamshire:
Aylesbury
Emberton, Olney
Chesham
Great Kimble, Tring
And from Berkshire:
Wantage
Hungerford
Reading
Maidenhead
Faringdon
North Moreton
Abingdon
Also: wouldn't the building be a Listed Building?
That might be another way to look for it?!
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This one ?
http://www.menublackboard.com/mb_estab.php?e_id=8388621
Regards
Malky
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So you were moving this lady out of the Bear Inn? Her name and place of death won't be of any help I suppose?
We were simply moving surplus furniture to another relative in London. Since the old Inn was huge I imagine she might well have been in the process of moving elsewhere and 'downsizing' to somewhere more comfortable in the winter. I never knew her name or which side of my friend;s family she came from.
Are you saying that the Bear Inn or the Big House had been closed for a long time?
AND
A village without a pub would have to be fairly unusual. ;)
A bit like that old Australian record that used to be played on the radio when I was a kid: "The Pub With No Beer". As I understood it the village had been without a pub since The Bear Inn had been closed. (It does happen in England e.g. Soberton in Hampshire.) When the closure happened I know not but certainly before the end of the First World War when much stricter Licensing Laws came into force and hundreds if not thousands of pubs were closed.
And your friend - you don't mention ages, but if he is still alive, is it possible to contact him to ask?
Since he is only a couple years older than me I assume so, hence no names. We lost contact over thirty years ago.
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This one ?
http://www.menublackboard.com/mb_estab.php?e_id=8388621
Regards
Malky
Don't think so, Malky?!
Hardly in a very feudal village close to Thame.
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Being Scottish, feudal villages are rare up here, so was not acquainted with it's relationship to normal villages. My ignorance. I learn every day.
Regards
Malky, who will look again.
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I'm also Scottish and not au fait with feudal villages either - but what about Lower Winchendon/ Nether Winchendon Bucks ?
It has a Bear House listed building (formerly Bear Inn) - no clue about church clock though :-\
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-43272-the-bear-house-nether-winchendon-buckingh
Looby :)
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Apologies, Malky! ;D
It's just that I was somewhat amused by the thought of Oxford being described as a feudal village! ;D ;D
Good find, Loobylooayr!
From the village/house website (http://www.netherwinchendonhouse.com/church-of-st-nicholas.html):
Nether Winchendon today is still a tiny, unspoilt mediaeval village with only 57 households within the parish. There is no pub, no shop, no school and no village hall.
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The clock in the Tower, with its single hand and blue exterior face, was placed in the church in 1772
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Kev, Malky,
Thank you both for your replies. Regarding the feudal thing, the only other one I've come across was in Shorwell, Isle of Wight where The Crown Inn was in my G. Uncle's hands pre First War but where the "tenant in perpetuity" was Mrs Disney Leith daughter of a Scots chap called Gordon, a London divorce solicitor, whose son inherited his uncle's Scottish title and estate. In Shorwell, what they didn't own they controlled completely until the death of Mrs Disney Leith in 1926/7.
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Nether Winchendon church does have a very unusual clock with just one hand - but I can't find a good picture of it. http://www.westgallerychurches.com/bucks/nether_winchendon/lwin03.JPG
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[quote author=KGarrad link=topic=708991.msg5523722#msg5523722 date=142030100
Good find, Loobylooayr!
From the village/house website (http://www.netherwinchendonhouse.com/church-of-st-nicholas.html):
Nether Winchendon today is still a tiny, unspoilt mediaeval village with only 57 households within the parish. There is no pub, no shop, no school and no village hall.
[/quote]
Just found the link too :D.
Can't find anything unusual about the church clock though. Otherwise it could fit the bill.
Looby :)
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Oooh! :D Good find, loobylooayr. It looks very promising indeed. Thank you.
I'll do some more checking.
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Reading up on Nether Winchendon it seems to be the perfect example of a feudal village.
Sounds lovely!
Hope that is your Bear Inn , Alanmac
Looby :)
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"The Clock
The clock in the Tower, with its single hand and blue exterior face, was placed in the church in 1772 by the Will of Jane Beresford, the last Tyringham of Nether Winchendon House (she left Nether Winchendon to her cousin Sir Francis Bernard Bt). It is a fine example of an early 18th Century clock, of which only about six remain in the country. A 14 ft. pendulum, a 60 lb. bob and a Graham dead-beat escapement, unusually fitted upside down, still ensure a high degree of accuracy. In 1993, the clock was converted to automatic winding, with the added benefit of lighter weights. The exterior face, with gilded figures on a blue background, was painstakingly refurbished in 1995."
http://www.netherwinchendonhouse.com/contii---church-of-st-nicholas.html
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A couple of piccies!
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Reading up on Nether Winchendon it seems to be the perfect example of a feudal village.
Sounds lovely!
Hope that is your Bear Inn , Alanmac
I'm sure that it is. thank you Looby. And thank you too to ShaunJ and KGarrad for going the extra mile and finding the pictures.
I should apologise for leading you up the garden a little as my recall was not as good as i thought. But with the usual lateral thinking and tenacity of RootsChatters the problem has again been solved.
Again my thanks to all who contributed.
alanmack
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Well found Looby!! ;D
I've found the ex-Inn (now a house) on google maps - it looks lovely. I hope when it was converted to a house that they retained all the features and character you remembered alanmack. It certainly looks very nice from the outside. :)
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Well found Looby!! ;D
I've found the ex-Inn (now a house) on google maps - it looks lovely. I hope when it was converted to a house that they retained all the features and character you remembered alanmack. It certainly looks very nice from the outside.
I think I read on one of the links that it had been "Grade II Listed" for some considerable time, before I saw it even. Alteration of its exterior would be very difficult to get official sanction, even improving the habitability (heating/insulation) can prove difficult and expensive. Despite this I'd estimate we're talking of a house, that would certainly attract the much vaunted "Mansion Tax" and at the highest rate at that.
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Yes, listed in 1951. The description says it has a slate roof (unsure if that was when it was listed?) but it is thatched today.
I thought your friend's Aunt was living in an Inn - I didn't realise it was a private house by that time. :)
I am off to google "Mansion Tax" .... ;)
Added: Don't like that at all. >:( For starters, it would have been nice if Listed Buildings and those over a certain age were exempt from this tax. :-\
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I thoght RootsChat had a "No Politics" rule?! ;D ;D
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I thoght RootsChat had a "No Politics" rule?! ;D ;D
Oh I didn't know that. :o
I am exempt though because I do not live in the UK so am able to comment on UK taxes and it doesn't count. I don't think my comment is political anyway (not intended to be ;)) ... ;D
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Neither was my inclusion of the term. I only used it to illustrate the value of the property on the open market, rather than put a figure to it.
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Neither was my inclusion of the term. I only used it to illustrate the value of the property on the open market, rather than put a figure to it.
Oh I see. I got that wrong then ... ::)