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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: robsdad on Monday 05 January 15 11:28 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
My 4x Gt Grandmother Esther Law ( Mitton ) appears on 1841 in Orton nr. Wombourn age 79 she is listed as a widow however this may have been crossed through, but I have always assumed that my 4x Gt Grandfather John was dead.
Recently I discovered a John Law age 87 on 1841 in Halfpenny Green, Bobbington about 3-4 mls from Orton who I would like to think is her husband ( bn. in county ).
Is anyone able to furnish any information regarding his possible birth in 1754 or his burial please ?
Esther was buried in Wombourn in 1847 - details kindly supplied by 'skylark' a few years ago.
regards,
robsdad
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There is a burial of a John Law 6.4.1823 in Wombourne unfortunately it doesnt give his age
FreeREG gives the following baptisms at St Benedicts Wombourne for John and Esthers children
1.1.1795 Mary
4.6.1797 Thomas
16.11.1798 Hannah
19.4.1801 William
29.5.1803 Joseph
16.6.1805 Anne
It might be the younger John who was buried in 1823
There is a baptism of a John Law 23.10.1774 to Thomas and Mary at Penn (not far from Wombourne)
Willow x
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There is a burial on familysearch parish register extract in 1832 Wombourn for a John Lawe
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J88X-D26
Shirl
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Looking at the 1841 census further their one sone Joseph is living next door
6.4.1831 St Peters Wolverhampton Joseph Law and Ann Brant (no fathers listed)
Emma (with Esther on the 1841) is living with them Emma is the daughter of William and Martha baptised 7.5.1826 St Nicholas Codsall
Willow x
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Hi both,
Yes I have these births plus two earlier at Pattingham.
John is still with us in 1841 so need a burial in subsequent years ( 1841-51 ).
His age on 1841 gives DOB 1754 ?
Do you see what I mean re. Crossing out of widow on Esther's 1841 ?
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William married Martha Jennings 7.9.1823 St Peters (Joseph one of the witnesses)
Thomas married Jane Mason 10.10.1820 St Peters
Willow x
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You dont actually have any proof that the John on the 1841 census is the one who was married to Esther
Willow x
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Hi Willow,
Yes I have St Peters PR's on line.
Its John 1754 thats bugging me.
Thanks
Regards
robsdad
John & Esther were in Pattingham in the early years.
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You dont actually have any proof that the John on the 1841 census is the one who was married to Esther
Willow x
No only the deleting of widow as I see it on 1841 - how does it look to you?
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Hi again
It looks to me like the clerk crossed out every reference to widow, if you look at a few pages before and after Esther the word widow is deleted - presumably they thought it wasn't an occupation? Only my thoughts and your John may still be the one shown on the 1841 census nearby.
Shirl
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Looking at the family John Law is with John Daniels married Margaret Bethard 5.9.1832 at St Peters but he is listed as a widow and is actually 25 years older than her - it might be his father in law from his first marriage
Willow x
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Oh dear
Thanks Shirl if that is so then I am back to square one.
I will look at the census now.
Regards
Robsdad
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Looking at the family John Law is with John Daniels married Margaret Bethard 5.9.1832 at St Peters but he is listed as a widow and is actually 25 years older than her - it might be his father in law from his first marriage
Willow x
Hi,
So we may be looking for John Daniel's first wife as a long shot. Your thinking outside the box as they say.
Regards
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Yes it might be an option
John Law died 1845 (two deaths listed that year under Wolverhampton) all other deaths listed 1841 - 1850 I have discounted
Willow x
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Hi,
Did you see Shirl's earlier observation that all the 'widow' listings are crossed out ?
So my assumptions re a living John are wrong and it looks as if Esther was indeed a widow in 1841.
So back we go to prior the first census.
Regards
robsdad.
Sorry I was jumping the gun.
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Well I reckon this has got to be a favourite for John's death in 1832 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J88X-D26 so if some kind soul has the parish records you never know
Shirl
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Yes I must agree.
Your help and probing further into the census looks to have paid off.
Many thanks to you and Willow for your insight so far and hope that Wombourn PR can maybe add a little more information
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Yes the 1845 deaths would cover the John Law in Bobbington but the 1823 and 1832 burials would cover you family
Willow x
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Many thanks Willow for your help today and in the past.
regards,
robsdad
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No problem
How about contacting St Benedicta to see if they can help http://www.stbenedictbiscop.org.uk/ParishOffice.html
Willow x
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Hi,
Will give that a try, nothing to lose
Regards
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Well I reckon this has got to be a favourite for John's death in 1832 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J88X-D26 so if some kind soul has the parish records you never know
Shirl
Hi Shirl & Willow,
Just a twist in the tail.
Poll books on another site list a John Law occupying house and land in Orton in 1833 and 1837 but no sign after that. I note a death in Dudley in 1838 but lots of Laws in that area. So still not got to the bottom of it.
regards,
robsdad.
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No problem
How about contacting St Benedicta to see if they can help http://www.stbenedictbiscop.org.uk/ParishOffice.html
Willow x
Hi Willow,
Have e mailed them today.
Did you see my earlier note re the Poll Books for Orton 1833 & 1837 ???
regards
robsdad
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Yes hopefully they may be able to add a bit more information to the mix
The poll book is strange I looked at all the marriages that I could find for the children hoping one of them might state his occupation or that he was deceased but unfortunately they were all to early to have that information on
Willow x
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Hi,
Well I suppose if the poll books are right then its narrowed it down to between 1837 and 1841 which if correct is some help.
Regards
robsdad
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It keeps us occupied, wouldn't be as much fun if it was easy! Up to 31/3/1839 Wombourn would have come under Seisdon Registration District, thereafter it was Wolverhampton. The poll book entries are interesting though.
Shirl
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/seisdon.html
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So far I can only see one John Lowe death registered in Seisdon up to 1839 (q/e Sep 1838 and the original does say Lowe).
Maybe if he died in hospital he could be registered under a different district?
Shirl
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Hi Shirl,
That was my thought re. The 1838 Dudley registration.
Still would have imagined a Wombourn burial.
Regards
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I agree really, but if Wombourn is the most likely then the death either wasn't registered (not unusual that early on) or it may have been noted as Lowe. Good luck and do let us know how you get on.
Shirl
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Hi Shirl,
We have made some headway with your help so many thanks.
A copy of St Benedicts P.R's are in Stafford archives but I have not heard directly back from the church yet in answer to my e mail.
regards,
robsdad
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Hi robsdad
I am also researching John Law and Esther Mitton. Would be interested to see what you have found and if you figured out the puzzle re John's death and burial.
Regards
Kieran
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Hi Kieran,
No further headway re. John's death/burial I'm afraid.
My link is through John & Esther's daughter Mary ( 1795 ) who married Thomas Hodgkins in 1820 - Wolverhampton ( my family name ).
Esther Mitton bap. 1762 Wolverhampton. f. John. mo. Elizabeth
John Mitton m. Elizabeth Collins 1762 Wolverhampton ( note both from Cheslyn Hay )
Have not looked any further back as yet.
I presume you may have all this.
Regards
robsdad
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Thanks robsdad for the reply. I am chasing through Joseph Law and Ann (Brant?) as they are on my pedigree and this thread has been most useful.
Am trying to find John Law (b 1754) parents - and a location for birth.
Regards
Kieran
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Hi Kieran,
Yes Joseph ( 1803 ) Mary's brother.
Have you got the eight children 2 bap. Pattingham and rest Wombourn ?
The first born Thomas b. 1790 bap. Pattingham died 1794 and another son b. 1797 was then bap. Thomas.
Just makes me wonder if John's father was a Thomas ( a long shot I know ).
There are lots of John Laws in the locality so my c.1754 is only an estimate and maybe wildly out !
Info. From another Rootchatter gave me Staffs BMD. - Esther Law died 1847 no age given Sub district Wombourn South Staffs Ref. WMB/2/284
Are you familiar with the locality I am refering to ?
regards,
robsdad