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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: gratuation on Tuesday 06 January 15 18:12 GMT (UK)
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I wondered if someone might help with finding out what happened to francis whitecross I thought like many other researchers that francis had abandoned his family in Scotland and went to america where he had another family leaving his poor wife with their children. I starred researching on the immigration entries and the francis that went to new jersey and released couldn't of been my francis because his age is 45 in 1883 when he was actually born in 1883 well into his 60s. its quite a talking point that my ancestor left his wife and married again in this country went to new jersey and then re married once his second wife died but it doesn't up. The facts . Francis whitecross was born in 1820 in kirriemuir, forfar
his parents were david whitecross and hellen marshall. I have them married in 1838 and the last census that family were altogether was in 1851 living in dundee. Hellen is on her own with the children in 1861 but i can't find a death entry for francis anywhere. Nor can i find another marriage entry divorce which is odd. Hellen has wife on her entry but there is no sign of francis there. As I mentioned earlier some researchers think he went to new jersey and died there but the dates dont tally up and have him married to a margaret black . This is giving me a headache ! any help would be great thanks G
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Think this could be your Francis in the 1861 census living 184,South Street Perth
Francis Whitecross b 1821 Kirriemuir age 40 labourer in foundry
Anne Whitecross b 1833 Dundee age 28
William Whitcross b 1844 Aberdeen age 17 ..this ties in with William in the 1851 census
James Leveston Charles Clark boarders
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There is a Francis Whitecross b 1820 Scotland age 60 living Paterson Passaic New Jersey
Ann Whitecross b 1822 age 58 ( which looks like a mistake )
Robert Whitecross b 1874 Scotland age 6 son
Can't see a birth for Robert ?
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1841 and 1851 there's a Francis Whitecross with a wife called Helen living Dundee. This couple (she is showing born Ireland, he's showing from Kirriemuir) have four children showing in 1851- the oldest is a James age 12 born Old Machar, Aberdeen. In 1841 the same couple look to have an Alexander (down as Francis's brother) with them along with their first son James age 2. Is this Francis's first wife? Edit - sorry misread thought Helen was mother! I can see the marriage now. :-[
Seems to be quite a few Whitecross males born 'Kirriemuir' living in Dundee in 1851 ::) now in Dundee if some says they're from Kirrie you'd think Kirriemuir not County Kerry in Ireland...just something to keep in mind. Particularly, when there are no Whitecross births showing on FamilySearch for Kirriemuir between 1815 and 1835.
Jen
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Rabbit off somewhere...on the 1871 census the only Francis Whitecross showing up is age 2. However there's an article about a Francis Whitecroft 'foundry worker' in the 1878 Dundee Telegraph....see clip. I'm pretty sure this is not the work of a 7 year old.
Jen
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On the Passaic Co. Surrogate Index here - http://www.courtreference.com/view/lid/14669/, there is an entry for Francis Whitecross who died in Paterson on 28 Feb. 1904. Have any of the researchers looked at this information or his death certificate?
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Thank you everyone , if he died in usa will I be able to get a copy of the death certificate . I can't find the entry in 1864 but on two census's he had been in new jersey since 1864 .
I appreciate all replies
G
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The newspaper article is interesting I think it must have been him I can't find another Francis Whitecross in Dundee at that time
G
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Jen , you say that you found a f w in the 1871 census I can't find it , can you tell me who his parents were I just want to have a look at it
Thanks
G
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I found Francis' will here - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-29845-8685-61?cc=2018330&wc=MQTQ-329:338013301,339496601 It says his son Robert was adopted and born MacDonald and was to be given $1,000. His wife Margaret was left his house. It also mentioned a son James Whitecross of London, England, and daughters Ellen and Margaret of Paterson were to be given $1.
There is information about obtaining the death certificate here - http://www.nj.gov/state/archives/reference.html
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Good find Shelly he was a bit of a character this Francis Whitecross ;D ;D ;D
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Some possible passenger lists for Francis returning to the US -
1882 with wife and children - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVPF-CSMH
1893 with Robert - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J6TV-L43
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Thank you and yes my ggg grandfather was definitely a bit of a character I'm trying to find something nice about him !!! Leaving his poor wife ( I wonder if she re married ) hope so then cock fighting , oh my
He wasn't married to Ann his children were known as Whitecross I think I've found Roberts grave
Well done for some brillant researching
G
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Google Books has a listing in the American Kennel Club Stud Book, Vol. 11 from 1895 for a dog named Miss Bella owned by Francis Whitecross of Paterson, New Jersey. It says the breeder was Mrs. Adams of Scotland and she was whelped 15 Mar. 1891. Perhaps the 1893 trip involved bringing back the dog?
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Sorry, but I really can't get a footing here...
The Francis showing on both the 1880 and 1900 New Jersey census would appear to be the same chap as the house numbers are the same on each census return, the son Robert's age tallies and the saloon theme continues. Ages are a bit out though as in 1880 he's 60 and in 1900 only 70. The 'will' mentions 86 Pine Street so perhaps all three are the same person?
From the census - Francis arrives in 1864, Robert (along with Ann?) arrives 1882, Maggie and her children Alexander and May Black arrive 1893. It would also appear that an F, Mrs, Bella, Robert and infant boy Whitecross arrive in the USA in 1882 - steerage - with 'F' showing as a labourer age 45 - 17 years shy of the age showing for Francis on the census.
I'm not sure where the Dundee connection comes from except Francis and Robert Whitecross got on a boat in Dundee in 1893 - both showing as liquor merchants - only three passengers showing on the voyage.
There are newspaper articles about Francis Whitecross (or multiples?) appearing in the Dundee papers from 1856 till 1882.
The two year old Francis in 1871 is living Mills Land, Cherryfield Lane, Liff & Benvie, St Mary's, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland. His parents are Thomas and Catherine Whitecross. Thomas is a HLW born Kirriemuir.
1871 - living at 17, Newmonthill Street, Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland (see address for cockfighting incident :o).....Elizabeth MacDonald and a James Fyffe - unmarried ...in 1873 an Elizabeth MacDonald has a wee boy called Robert Fyyfe MacDonald (same name as in the will)...many parts of the puzzle still missing....
Jen
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Hi Jen , thanks for the reply . I had assumed that Robert fyfe McDonald was in fact francis whitecrosses child because he was living with Ann in the 1861 census and there was a bella born 1862 both bella and Robert went to New Jersey with francis and Ann . I thought as he was still married to Helen marshall ( whitecross) I can't see a divorce and she was still alive in 1871 the children Robert and bella were his . How very odd ! He does mention Robert fyfe macdonald in his will , he also mentions my great grandad James ( London) he also mentions Ellen and Margaret who lived in Paterson . The names all tie in apart from Ellen who I have named Hellen but that may just be a mistake in translation I have a feeling Her name was Ellen ( if anyone has access to Scotlands people perhaps you could look it up ) I think this is my Francis but I can't find a thing on Ellen/ Hellen and Margaret who he mentions , I've looked under immigration and the census . There's no trace of both ladies in the Scottish census . I can't find out when Ann died either I suppose if their mother died they may have travelled to New Jersey to be with Francis . I did pick up on something rather interesting , he left his adopted son 1000 dollars and his own children 1 doller . So in today's valuation he left Robert 25.000 and his children including my great grandad 25 pounds ! I'm sure he was very grateful but it does sound odd . Robert did work with him so perhaps that was his thinking . I've been trying to sort this out all morning .. If anyone had time to try and solve the puzzle I will say a big thank you !!! G ???
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In my experience, people will leave their children $1 in a will so it's clear they didn't ignore them entirely. If they're completely ignored, I think that gives the children a basis to contest the will.
I have seen Ellen and Helen used interchangeably more than once, so I think it may be the same person.
Did the Scotland Francis have any other possible children that were living at the time of death of New Jersey Francis?
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Thanks for that info , I had no idea thats why someone would leave a small amount very sneaky Francis ! Regarding his other children that would have been alive at the time of his death , he had a son called William he was the son who went to live with Ann and Francis in 1861 he was 17 then . Unfortunately I can't find anymore information on both the census and death entries so I don't know what happened to him . Francis didn't mention William in his will so perhaps he was already dead . It does look that way because he did leave James the dollier even though he lived in London . If I could only get some confirmation that Ellen is infect the same Helen in the census of 1861 and 1871 all the names would tie in . My great grandfather did name one of his children Margaret ellen so I have a gut instant for what it's worth that Helen was actually Ellen . I did wonder about the will , I'm not sure whether Francis wrote it if someone else wrote it I suppose they may have spelt it wrong .
Thanks again g
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I forgot to mention Francis had another called David Whitecross he died in 1944 that crushed the idea of him leaving all his children something David was also living in London . The other child was bella who was Ann's daughter and sister to Robert .
Wish I had a time machine !
G
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Where did David die? - at 98 :o that should have made the papers. Sorry, another couple of questions what did James do for a living and did he stay put in London?
Jen
Summary of children cause I'm well confused ::)
Helen
Children showing on the census for the Francis born Kirrie and the Helen born Ireland
1* James Whitecross 1839, Old Machar, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
2 *Willm Whitecross1843, Old Machar, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
3 *David Whitecross1846, St Nicholas, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
4 *Hellen Whitecross1848, St Nicholas, Aberdeenshire, Scotland (still with mother in 1871)
5 *Margaret Whitecross1853, Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland (still with mother in 1881)
Elizabeth MacDonald
6 *Robert Fyfe MacDonald born 1873 – if this is him below looks like his mother was living at the same address as 'A' Francis Whitecross of the cockfighting fame.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY1N-LQ6
Maggie ?(states on the 1900 census she is mother to 7 children)
Margaret Whitecross born 1862, Scotland living in Patterson in 1905 think this is wife Maggie with her daughter May/Margaret Black age 17
7 *Alexander Black born Scotland 1883
8 *May Black born Scotland 1887
Ann ?(with Francis and Robert on the 1880 census) think she is too old to be Robert's mother.
9* Mary Whitecross born 1855 Scotland living in Patterson in 1915 – another daughter? A James and Mary Hussey are at the same address.
Missing 10* Isabella/Bella born about 1862 Scotland (from ships's manifest)
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There is an 1890 naturalization record for Frances Whitecross in Passaic Co., New Jersey - http://records.passaiccountynj.org/press/indexPassaic.aspx It gives an option to get the image, but it is coming up for me as "document not available".
There is an entry in the 1866 Paterson city directory for Francis Whitecross, laborer, home 73 Pine. He seems to be missing from some directories in between, but shows back up in the 1880 city directory as a liquor merchant living at 86 Pine.
Regarding Maggie/Margaret having 7 children, it also says she has 2 children living. The 1910 census lists her as the mother of 2, both still living. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKBP-RY7 Since the number of years married on the 1900 census was 7, I wonder if the census taker just accidentally kept writing "7" in the number of children.
This may be Margaret's burial - http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ehs/
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Jen , you are correct of course david born 1846 didn't die in 1944 ! Not sure what James did for job wise
Wil read the rest of the posts
G
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Hmmm 1893 busy year across the Atlantic....all travelling on the 'State of Nebraska'. Everyone from Dundee.
Maggie Whitecross 40 year and 3 months - married
Maggie Whitecross 30 years and 3 months - spinster
Alexander Whitecross 9 years
James Whitecross 8 years
All going to Patterson NJ....
Jen
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Just adding link to new post to keep all the info together www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=737839.0
Monica
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G, you mentioned that it was your direct line in London, g grandfather James. Who were his parents?
The Isabella Whitecross mentioned in the other thread, living with aunt Helen Whitecross (t.b.c. but a likely marriage in Dundee in the 1860s that you could check to confirm her parents' names) and uncle William Carnagie. She showed with the Carnegies in 1881 in Dundee. Living by herself in the Dundee area in 1891. She was so far consistent, showing as born c. 1863 in London or just England.
At a guess with I am seeing, I think she was the daughter of a James Whitecross and Elizabeth (maiden name?) who were living in the Poplar/ Bromley area.
I think this was her birth entry https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:261R-HDZ
1871 here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRJC-LCH . Mother Elizabeth showing as wife and daughter to a Harriet Johnson on the full entry. Parish Registers for christenings to a James Whitecross and wife Elizabeth also show:
Margaret Jane Whitecross 9 Jun 1867
William James Whitecross 27 Nov 1870
David Alexander Whitecross 18 Sep 1872
At a guess, you have from what we saw Isabella up in Scotland from 1881. Working but without her children in 1891 and married in 1894 followed by census entry with Arthur and her children William and Helen in the household (showing as step children to Arthur).
From what Jen mentioned, likely her two children William and Helen were with the Carnegies in London in 1891, passed off as their own children and born in Ayr (not Dundee). There is a possible entry for Helen Carnegie, living alone back in the Dundee area by 1901.
Father James showing as a mariner by occupation. The christening in 1864 for Isabella gives her name on the register as Isabella Helen Whitecross. Can't see a Scottish death entry for her so far with the details we have :-\
The 1894 marriage of Isabella Whitecross and Arthur McGuire will help you confirm her parents' names including full name of her mother. This will help you link back and verify these details for London.
Monica :)
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James in 1881 with a second wife, Sarah? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK6T-BQH4
Place of birth with the ref to Aberdeen fits well with what has been posted for the James, son of Francis and first wife Helen (I think Jen you did a summary for Francis' children earlier).
More children's christenings showing for a James Whitecross and wife Sarah in the parish registers, such as:
Annie Whitecross 4 Mar 1880 - we have Annie in 1881
Margaret Whitecross 3 Aug 1882 - maybe first Margaret died as she doesn't show in 1881?
John Francis Whitecross 26 Mar 1891
There may be other entries.
Monica
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Thank you again Monica that's very impressive ! What a complicated family I don't suppose I'll ever know exactly why the two children were living in London with Helen and William Carnegie then when they were in their teens the two of them moved back with their mother Isabella and step father Arthur Maguire . William born 1882 has William Carnegie whitecriss I'm guessing Isabella wanted the fathers name to be included but by the time he emergrated to Patterson with Helen and William and sister Helen I'm guessing nellies real name was Helen but I can't find an entry for her anywhere I wonder if William Carnegie fathered both of her children . It looks as if William born 1882 stayed in Patterson where is grandfather lived . I still can't get my head around the whole name changing . Thank you for all your input so James Whitecross and Isabella were siblings . Going back to Helen and William Carnegie I can't find anymore children being born to them it does look
As if Isabella had the children for them but were never know !
Cheers and thanks
G
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Have you actually viewed the birth cert for William Whitecross' birth c. 1882? If it had been registered with both surnames of Carnegie and Whitecross, William Carnegie would have had to have gone to the Registrar's office to confirm he accepted paternity.
Thinking back from what you said in one of the posts, it may be that it was William b.1882's marriage cert where the various names jumped in! McGuire/Carnegie/Whitecross etc.
You g grandfather was James born 1871 in the Bromley area? So, as you say, he was Isabella b. 1863's brother.
What a jumble of a family tree you have had to sort out!
Monica
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Hi Monica
The birth entry has William born 1882 down as William Carnegie Whitecross but the father has been left off he was illegimate .
The marraige entry for William has his mother Isabella and fathers name William Carnegie I suppose as time went on he decided to be known as his father . The mothers maiden names were Maguire her married name , Carnegie but I don't think they were married , and her maiden name Whitecross
Sorry I meant to say Isabella was James Whitecross daughter
Thanks again
G :)
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Don't worry, we understand what you mean ;) A jumble of names.
William Carnegie Whitecross, illegitimate. I am going to guess was named after the kind Uncle William with wife Helen Whitecross who took in Isabella in back in Scotland. Nellie/Helen born later maybe also named after Isabella's aunt Helen. Could well have been name 'in memory and gratitude of' rather than anything else. Isabella would have been just 19 or so when son William was born, illegitimate. Sadly though...we don't really know much more.
In the bigger picture, sounds like you understand the grey lines of this all and have made great headway along the way. For your Xmas past, I would wish you an hour with Francis so that he could explain his life to you 8)
Monica
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I've been watching this thread out of interest. I hope Gratuation gets to unravel all of this.
Monica - what a lovely thought. I hope that you could also get that 1 hour with someone from your past, as you are always so helpful to others.
Kit
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Thank you Kit :-* I have so many choices of who I would choose for my hour, you must do too! Stuck in Ireland, stuck in the Highlands and stuck in Spain...sigh! That would make a good topic on the 'Lighter Side' here on RC maybe!
There is stuck (like me) and there are also those special people, who give us so much trouble to figure out, like Francis here on this thread.... ;)
Monica
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Now that would be good Monica ! I have a list of questions as long as my arm !!
Thank you for taking an interest in very grateful for all
Your help and the wish !
Happy new year :D
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Gratuation you would expect to find Helen Whitecross and William Carnegie together on the 1871 census as they got married in 1866. However, Helen's at home with her mum while I think William is in the Dundee nick! What an interesting family :)
Jen