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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: JONTYA1 on Tuesday 06 January 15 18:19 GMT (UK)
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Hi Would be grateful for any help;
Looking for any information on the children of Rev John Barr Minister of Dovehill Relief Church Glasgow and his wife Eliza/Elizabeth Houston married 14 Dec 1813 in Glasgow Scotland. Rev John Barr died 18 Mar 1839 in Rothesay Bute. I think he was born about 1777. His wife Eliza/Elizabeth Houston died 8 sept 1877 at Motherwell, aged 81yrs b about 1796 maybe in Greenock. [I have a copy of her Death Certificate. Informant was her grandson John Colville
I also have a copy of Rev John Barr’s Will, in the Will he mentioned his children, John his eldest son, Elizabeth, William, Janet, Robert, James and George. I have found the birth/bapt of George Elliot Barr 19/10/1821 b Houston; (1) Janet Barr 18/04/1814/ Janet Barr 11/12/1820 Glasgow; John Barr 27/7/1824 Houston; and Robert Barr 28/5/1825 Glasgow; (if John was the eldest child then George Elliott Bar1821 and (1} Janet Barr 1814 must have died) (I have all the info I need on Janet Barr 1820 as I know she married David Colville in 1845 at Campbeltown, Argyllshire}
I have searched the Census from 1841 to 1871 and cannot find Eliza/Elizabeth Houston/Barr or John Barr 1824; Robert Barr 1825; and also the Birth/ Bapt of Elizabeth Barr; William Barr; James Barr; and George Barr
Jay
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Hi Jay
Will be an interesting family for sure to research :)
Janet seems well covered as you say www.thepeerage.com/p24250.htm
Given Janet's marriage was in Campbeltown in 1845, wondered whether this was mother in 1851?
Eliza Barr 54 Income From Property & Interest b. Greenock
Elizabeth Colville 23 Grandaughter b. Campbelton, argyle
Grace Currie 14 servant
Address: Main Street, Campbeltown Argyll
Not showing on FreeCen www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl Apart from the transcript above, you would need to check original image on Scotlands People. Likely granddaughter Elizabeth Colville's age is mistranscribed given Janet Barr married in 1845.
Monica :)
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Eliza Barr looks to be living with David Colville and daughter Janet in 1871 at 251 Bath Street, Glasgow/Blythswood. Showing as mother in law, aged 73 and born in Greenock.
Monica
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Hi Folks,
Could this be Eliza on 1841 at Rothesay , Bute
Living at Argyle Place.
BARR Eliza F 40 Independent
BARR Robt. M 10
MCDONALD Eliza F 5
MCDONALD Charles M 5
MCDONALD Duncan M 3
MCALISTER Grace F 20 Female Servant
All born outside Census County apart from servant Grace who is from Bute.
Looby :)
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Well done Looby, that looks promising for 1841 :)
Jay, can I make pure wild guesses for now regarding possible leads for John and Eliza's son Robert....
There is this birth for an Eliza Barr https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMSR-6H5
Mother/wife Amelia Edith Huddleston was a big character, see www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=14528950 and www.online-literature.com/amelia-barr/ for example.
There is the middle name of Amelia coming in as a middle name into Janet Barr/Colville - Mary Amelia Colville b. 4 Dec 1850 (2+2 might make wrong!).
There is this death for a daughter, Alice Edith in the US, showing Robert as born in Glasgow here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FP3X-PQL ...so I am hopeful ;D
Will try and find Robert in 1851...
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Barr, Amelia Huddleston (1831–1919) www.encyclopedia.com/article-1G2-2591300840/barr-amelia-huddleston-18311919.html
British-American author of American historical fiction. Name variations: Amelia Edith Barr. Born Amelia Faith Huddleston on March 29, 1831, in Ulverston, Lancashire, England; died on March 10, 1919, in New York; daughter of Mary Singleton and William Henry Huddleston (a Methodist minister); sporadically educated at home and in private schools; married Robert Barr (1826–1867), on July 11, 1850, in Kendal, England; children: thirteen, including four who died at birth, and Mary (b. 1851), Eliza (called Lilly, b. 1853), Edith (b. 1854), Calvin (b. 1857), Alice (b. 1859), Ethel (b. 1861), Alexander (b. 1863), Archibald (b. 1864), and Andrew (b. 1867).
Hopeful, Robert Barr's dates would fit for the Glasgow birth of the Robert we are discussing.
Trying to find any bio on this Robert. His bio seems to have been de-railed by his wife's huge talent...
Monica
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Hi Monica,
I have a feeling Robert is on the England 1851 - which I have no access too.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SP9Q-JN2
Perhaps this is when he met the very interesting Amelia :)
Looby :)
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Posts clashed Monica ;)
Amelia must have been a very modern lady for her time.
Looby :)
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Amelia sounds awesome :) I found her autobiography (lost it on multiple searches, but can be refound for sure).
Jay, I hope she is Robert's wife...fascinating other character to follow.
Looby, let me find Robert, in 1851. You are right, he must be in England, just prior to marriage.
Monica
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Looby, the entry you found certainly could fit for the Robert we have been discussing. He shows as a 26 year old Merchant from Glasgow. The term 'visitor' seems to be that he was staying in a hotel in Huddersfield, Yorkshire (think 'George Hotel').
Monica
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This is the link to Amelia's autobiography (aside from her literature) www.gutenberg.org/files/35706/35706-h/35706-h.htm
Trying to think how to confirm this line. In the absense of other family descendants for Robert Barr having followed up this line and published details online, maybe the only source confirmation will be the English marriage in 1850 where at least father's name and details would have been included. More than would have likely been included in the Old Parish Registers of the time in Scotland before the start of official registration in Scotland (England began in mid 1837 where only father's name was included on marriages for bride and groom - Scotland from 1855 included father and mother's details ::)).
Need to check whether there is an 1850 marriage ref for Robert and Amelia...
Monica
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Monica - that looks promising.
Robert should be married by 1851 Census - Amelia's bio has 1850 as date of marriage.
Wonder where she is?
Looby
Our posts clashed again - Oooops
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Marriage was 1850 it seems. From www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Robert Barr and Amelia Huddleston show on a marriage ref for 3rd qrt 1850 in Vol. 25, pg 452.
Missed checking what the marital status was for Robert Barr in 1851 in Huddersfield in 1851. Will check now.
Monica
ADDED: Robert Barr in Huddersfield in 1851 showing as married.
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Newspapers also confirm Robert was born Glasgow:
Mrs Amelia Edith Barr, the author ... was yesterday seventy-three. She was born at Ulverston, Lancashire, married Robert Barr, of Glasgow,
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Ahha.
Amelia is in Glasgow on 1851-
Glasgow - St James - Monteith Row.
Amelia Barr Wife M age 20 Wool & Yarn Merchant born England
Mary Ellen Huddleston Visitor U age 11 " "
Catherine Currie Servant U age 27 House Servant Argyllshire, Campbelltown
;D
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Marriage notice in Kendal Mercury says Robert was a Merchant, of Glasgow, but doesn't mention his parents.
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Ahha indeed. My father lived early years in Monteith Row :)
Does look good for a possible life for Robert Barr, do you think Looby and scotmum?
Such a pain about lack of detail for Robert Barr though :-\ All the focus (understandably given her prolific writing career in the US) seems to be focused on Amelia Huddleston.
Monica
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Certainly looks like we have traced the Robert Barr and Amelia Huddleston who married in 1850.
Is there evidence to tie this Robert to being the son of the Rev John Barr and Eliza Houston?
Looby :)
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Circumstancial only Looby :-\ The 2+2 guesses for now...
The only source that Jay can look to likely will be that 1850 English marriage register entry to try to confirm this Robert's father's name.
Monica
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Just noticed folks and could be a co-incidence - but
1851 Eliza Barr (mother) is living in Campbeltown Argyll and her servant is local girl Grace Currie.
1851 Amelia Barr in Glasgow has a Campbeltown born servant Catherine Currie.
Maybe the Currie girls were from the same family ;)
Looby
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Would likely make sense if they had a local family from Argyll where the girls worked across the family :) Well spotted, Looby!
I think for Eliza Houston, apart from 1861, likely census entries are now there for 1841/1851 and 1871.
Monica
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Phew... well I think now that Robert Barr and Amelia look like a good bet for being John Barr and Eliza Houston's son and daughter-in-law.
And now I'm off to bed .
Night guys!
Looby :)
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Night Looby :-*
Who is your lovely cat photo?
Monica
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Monteith Row link - that's where David Colville married Janet Barr.
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That certainly adds to the circumstantial info for Janet and Robert Barr and their families :)
Monica
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Good find Scotsmum. The jigsaw pieces are fitting together.
The cat is our Tibby. He lives in my husbands workshop and is a great mouser.
Looby :D
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This suggests Robert's dad was indeed a John:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXJV-5XT
and this Wiki page suggests a Reverand at that:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Woman%27s_who%27s_who_of_America,_1914-15.djvu/65
(Rootschat shrink link wouldn't work on my browser today)
m. in Kendal Parish Church, Westmoreland, July 11, 1850, Robert Barr, son of Rev. Dr. Barr
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How Robert and Amelia came to meet in Glasgow:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/30240949?sid=21105033908741&uid=2&uid=4&uid=2129&uid=3738032&uid=70
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Fab finds Scotsmum!!
Think that confirms Robert being the right one.
Haven't got time to read all the links fully, but I will later.
Jay this is a very interesting branch of the Barr family.
Are you descended from them?
Looby :)
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Just been catching up...
Scotsmum, the 1850 marriage detail certainly points to this Robert being hopefully connected to Rev John and wife Eliza.
Great story for Robert and Amelia. Wow, she was a prolific writer. Read a little of her autobiography (linked above) last night, which is very readable. Might go back to read snippets along the way :)
Monica
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Hi Everyone who so kindly helped find information on my Barr family, I do think their is a strong possibility in the marriage of Robert Barr to Amelia, I live close to Kendal, so will collect their marriage Certificate, and keeping my fingers crossed it's the correct one, I think their other children might indeed be in the England Census, so more research there, I have also read all the links you all have sent and will defiantly follow up on them. I am connected to this family through a marriage into the Lusk Family when one of them became Lord Mayor of London.
I will be back in touch with a follow up on the info on the marriage Certificate
Thank you again to everyone so kindly helped. Jay
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Hi All
Thinks this confirms that Robert Barr's father was Rev John Barr
"So the dawn of our wedding-day, the eleventh of July, 1850, was ushered in by the beautiful chimes of Kendal church, and the ringers, being well paid, marked, every hour of the day by a carillon until night covered the earth. The ceremony was nine o’clock in the morning, but the church was full, and the sidewalks full, and every one had a smile and a good wish for us.
Robert looked exceedingly handsome, and his sister and brother-in-lave, David Colville, the great iron and steel manufacturer of Glasgow, were at his side.
2 found 5 more to find
Jay
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Certainly a 100% confirmation that this is the right Robert. Great to have it confirmed...and how kind of Janet and husband to attend the wedding and add the detail ;)
Monica
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;D