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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: gwen j on Monday 12 January 15 20:13 GMT (UK)
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In the early 1800's my Roberts family lived at the above property. By the 1841 census Robert Roberts and his wife Marjorie lived in Chester and most of his children lived in the Manchester area. Is there such a thing as property records? Who would have owned Brynheilig when the family lived there?
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I've just corrected the name of the Farm - should read Bryn Heilyn and is sometimes placed in Pentrefoelas otherwise Rhydlydan!
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have you checked Welsh Wills on line?
cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?skin=profeb&Ing=en (http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?skin=profeb&Ing=en)
(if the Welsh version appears you can click on "English" top rt hand corner if required)
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Hi hanes teulu, I've had a look for a Will for Robert Roberts without any luck I'm afraid.
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Gwen - I've changed the title of the topic for you now so it says "Bryn Heilyn" which you put in your second post.
Trystan
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Hi Gwen
Have you tried the Denbighshire Archives? You can search the online indexes to see if there's anything there (try by place):
https://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/en/resident/libraries-and-archives/denbighshire-archives/Indexes/Search.aspx
You could also try contacting them. They've been very helpful to me in the past:
https://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/en/resident/contact-us/contact-us.aspx
Another line might be searching online newspapers (property advertised as To Let or For Sale - even in those days!) - http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/home or Bristish Newspapers Archive via FindMyPast or direct to site: http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
Also, the National Library might have some thing in their online archives:
http://isys.llgc.org.uk/
Hope this helps.
Gadget
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I wasn't searching for a will for Robert Roberts. Rather, I searched for "Roberts" (name) and "Pentrefoelas" (town).
Thought I spotted one for a Roberts at Bryn Heilin (with an "i") = 1851?
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Hi Hanes Teulu, have found the Will you mentioned. Not sure if it's the same family as mine - the person isn't a son of my Robert Roberts but could be a brother or cousin. I have realised that Roberts is a very common name in North Wales! I'll look at the 51 census and see if I can find them.
Many thanks,Gwen
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William Roberts and his wife Eleanor lived at Bryn Heilyn in 1841 censuswith their family. Eleanor is still alive and at the farm (115 acres) in 1851 - she is a widow. I'm now trying to work out if William was my Robert's brother! Will not say no to any help!
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Have now got all the census bar 1861 for Bryn Heilyn! There was a Roberts there as of 1881 - Evan Roberts. Don't think he was a son of William as he's not mentioned in William's Will in 1851! To be continued!
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I called at Denbigh Archives a few weeks ago but despite help from the lovely staff I didn’t find anything new. I did, however, find an obit notice for Marjory Roberts that I’d forgotten about! It’s from 1855 and mentions her late husband and the fact that he was a decendent if the Goch’s of Betws and Penmachno. This ties in with notes I received from a now deceased cousin claiming the connection. I wonder if the farm name, Bryn Heilyn, is a reference to Heilyn?
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Is there such a thing as property records? Who would have owned Brynheilig when the family lived there?
Welsh tithe maps https://places.library.wales
In Search field enter "bryn heilin" - include the " " as part of the search key. Should return 1 hit. At the moment there are server issues which mean I cannot check further.
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Diolch Hanes Teulu, despite following your instruction for the link I can’t seem to find it.
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When you click on the link, which screen do you get?
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Welsh tithe maps - places of Wales, followed by two search boxes. I typed “Bryn Heilyn” in the top box. It bought up every farm with Bryn in the name.
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The search key is "bryn heilin" - heilin with an "i" not a "y" and including the punctuation marks - important.
Without the punctuation marks it seaches for "bryn" and "heilin" as separate words. Bryn Heilyn (with a "y") and without the punctuation marks returns 16,292 hits!
"bryn heilin" should return 1 hit which names the owner of the farm.
pob lŵc
ps - just checked and there's still a server issue when trying to drill down eg. view map
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Diolch Hanes Teulu, I’ll have another go!
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Got it! Thank you Hanes Teulu!
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elsh Journals online https://journals.library.wales/search/advanced
Search for "bryn heilyn" - with a "y" and again wrapped in punctuation marks. Should return 6 hits.
"Vol 24: Cerrig y Drudion" - col 2 mentions "Bryn Heilyn". Also mentioned are "Llwyn Onn" and "Cernioge Mawr" - which confirms its the Bryn Heilyn you are interested in. I can provide a translation (if required).
"Mehefin 1881" mentions an "E Roberts, Bryn Heilyn, Rhydlydan"
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Hi Hanes Teulu, thank you so much for the reference to the library journals - most interesting. I did visit the farm a few years ago when we were travelling home from Chester to Neath. Very remote on the windswept moor with only the sheep for company! Unfortunately there was nobody at home the day we visited do could only see the outside. Robert Roberts, my ggg grandfather, lived there in the early 1800’s, all his children were born there ( the youngest in 1816.) By 1841 he was living in Chester and died there in 1844. His wife’s obit in 1855 describes him as a tanner, skinner and farmer. I like the story from 1831 about Hugh Roberts who drowned on the Sabbath! I’m currently following various inhabitants of the farm to try and work out if they are related to my Roberts family .
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Hanes Teulu, the article from 1831 which refers to the drowning of Hugh Roberts of Bryn Heilyn -I’ve been trying to find a death record on parish registers for him without luck. Would that article have been printed at that time, like a newspaper or would it have been referring to something that had happened some time before?
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Welshnewspapers on line http://newspapers.library.wales
Put "hugh roberts" (not forgetting the all important " ") in Search and use date slider bars to restrict search to 1831. Returns 7 hits.
Click on T COUNTY NEWS or No title to view report. The newspapers differ slightly as to date of incident.
pob lŵc
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Re. the Welsh Journals on line I had only checked two - I hadn't checked "Y Dysgedydd crefyddol", Jan 1832 issue.
Confirms date of incident as Sunday, 11 Dec 1831 - when the family were on their way to Capel y Bont. Indeed, the article is headed "Warning to breakers of the Sabbath"!!
So probably looking for a nonconformist burial and check out if Capel y Bont records available.
Much more informative than the newspaper reports eg "... age 26, the handsomest and strongest in the Rhydlydan area ...."
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Hanes Teulu, have found the newspaper article regarding Hugh. It mentions his mother being do shocked she might never recover but not her name sadly. Have had no luck finding his burial or Capel y Bont. The only birth I can find for a Hugh Roberts circa 1805 is a baptism 11 Jan 1804 in Llanrwst, the son of Hugh and Dorothy. My Robert Roberts is said to have been born there too - I wonder if the farm and families are linked?