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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: daisy59 on Friday 16 January 15 22:46 GMT (UK)
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My great grandma was born in west dereham 1866 her father was Thomas coldham. I have found the births and baptisms for many of the children but none for her. On her marriage certificate of 1886 it states her father Thomas as dead I have traced him from fincham to Yorkshire she married in Middlesex later living in Bedfordshire Grimsby and finally Derby I was wondering if she was maybe one of thomases brothers or sisters child he had quite a few . Any info at all thanks :)
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
Does she appear on the 1871 and 1881 census's ?
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Hi and thanks for the welcome. No she does not though other girls names do in thomases family. All I have is her marriage cert and later census after she married. I did wonder if she changed her Christian names but both ? can find no sarah louise born to any of the coldham family though lots of girls born.
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Hi so we are looking for a Sarah Louisa not a Louisa Sarah possibly? she is Sarah L Churchyard in 1891 Census Ref RG12/1257/97/1
Keyboard86
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Hi never sure what it should be on her marriage cert it says Louisa sarah but all later census its sarah first, maybe a case of wedding nerves ! the name Louisa has been kept as middle name in our family though ( the girls that is ). Thanks for replying
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Free bmd does not show any female Coldham born in Downham in 1866, nor any Sarah L or Louisa S.
So, possibly she moved there when young.
Who are the witnesses on the marriage certificate?
If her parents married after her birth, and she was born in Norfolk we have
Births March quarter 1866 Louisa S Franey - Blofield
Births September quarter 1866 Louisa S Money - Erpingham
Births April quarter 1866 Sarah L Clarke - Henstead, Norfolk
Birth April quarter 1866 Sarah L Gage - Docking, Norfolk
Birth January quarter 1866 Sarah L Hardy - Erpingham, Norfolk
Births April quarter 1866 Sarah L Leggatt - Erpingham, Norfolk
Births July quarter 1866 Sarah L Thaxton - Norwich, Norfolk
Are you saying that she does not show with her father Thomas in 1871 census - or do you think he has already died?
Could you give a place and birth date for the Thomas who you believe is her Father?
Thank-you
PS.
I showed girls born in 1866 (so included first quarter of 1867) - have you just taken this birth year from the censuses, or is it definitely 1866?
Added:
Thomas Coldham, born about 1844, Stradsett Norfolk, married to Susannah?
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If Thomas and Susannah are the proposed family, the marriage was not until 1867, surely?
Marriages June quarter 1867
Thomas Coldham Downham 4b 593
Susannah Parlett Downham 4b 593
There is a Sarah Parlett born in Downham in 1865 - have you discounted her?
Added:
She died in 1866, so not her.
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Hi all 1891 is only census b 1866 rest 1868 West Dereham
Keyboard86
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Thank-you.
Same procedure can be done for 1868/1869/1867.
When and where did she die?
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;D 1916 Derby aged 50
Keyboard86
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Oh, good.
I do like consistency in ages.
Added:
So in the 5 years between 1911 census and 1916 death she has aged 7 years.
1911 census 2 April age 43
1916 death mid-February to end of June. age 50
So if birthday between April 2nd and death date, only 1 year out.
But other censuses still different.
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Hi all. The only Thomas Coldham and family in the west dereham area are
Thomas born 1842 babtised at St Mary's Stradsett and lived at Fincham which is all within about a mile or so radious of west dereham. He married Susannah Parlett in 1867 in that area. I have all births for them and his immiediate family from the church records of stradsett and west dereham where some of his siblings and his own children were babtised. After 1871 it appears from the census records that he and his family moved to Rotherham where he died. I have covered all births in the west dereham area from 1831 through till 1870. She states her age on her marriage cert as being 19 that was in 1886 which would make her birth 1866/67 thanks all.
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Hi a real puzzle your Louisa Sarah/Sarah Louisa! Would you agree therefore the Mary E Coldham in the 1871/81 with the family b c 1866 is in fact Mary E Parlett b June qtr 1866 Downham 4b 364, which makes Sarah Louisa possibly not the child of Susannah at least?
Keyboard86
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Who were the witnesses on her marriage certificate, please?
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Who were the witnesses on her marriage certificate, please?
Walter Covington/Lovington and Margaret Maria Wright
Keyboard86
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Hi again, Margaret M Wright aged 28 single b Clerkenwell looks to be living at the same address the couple gave at marriage eg Compton Buildings, Clerkenwell in 1891
Census Ref RG12/222/50/6
Keyboard86
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Hi a real puzzle your Louisa Sarah/Sarah Louisa! Would you agree therefore the Mary E Coldham in the 1871/81 with the family b c 1866 is in fact Mary E Parlett b June qtr 1866 Downham 4b 364, which makes Sarah Louisa possibly not the child of Susannah at least?
Keyboard86
Just another point, at her marriage in 1886 Louisa Sarah Coldham stated her father Thomas Coldham was dead, he was very much alive in 1891, and from his apparent death aged 75 in Rotherham, Susannah Coldham dies 1886 Rotherham aged 37
Keyboard86
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Can anyone see Thomas Coldham in Rotherham in 1891, 1901 or 1911?
His daughters Mary E and Annie M appear to marry in 1881 and 1886.
His father-in-law William Parlett does not die until 1897 in Rotherham (unless a different William)
And there should be a son Edgar E, but at a quick look there is no further mention of him.
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In 1881 the family is at Masbro' Street.
Thomas shows on the ER's there for 1888 and 1889. In 1888 at a different number in Masbrough. Have not checked all.
William Parlett shows there for 1888 to 1903, sometimes recorded as Hasbro.
Added:
Also at 4 Windmill Square by 1911 is a William Parlett.
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In 1911 at 4 Windmill Square there is a William Varlett, 56, Elizabeth Coldman Varlett, 53, Lilley Coldhan/man Varlett 21, May Coldhan/ham Varlett 18, Arthur Coldham Varlett, 23.
Parents born Norfolk, children born Rotherham.
The marriage seems to have been of surprisingly long duration considering the ages of the parents.
So a different William Parlett/Varlett, just wondered how they all fit in.
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Hi in 1891 age varies 40? occ Carter b Norfolk in Rotherham 1901 if I recall changes to Coleman?
Keyboard86
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Hi in 1891 age varies 40? occ Carter b Norfolk in Rotherham 1901 if I recall changes to Coleman?
Keyboard86
Can someone check if the Thomas Coldham aged 40 occ Carter on original something like born S2riggate at Dorset Place Kimberworth is him?
Census ref RG12/3849/140/34
Edit possibly not him as aged 50 at same address in 1901 b Shegate? Norfolk shown as Coleman
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1891 census
Thomas Couldham age: 40
Lodger Widower occ: Carter
Where born: S Triggate, Norfolk, England
Kimberworth Masbrough
Masbrough Yorkshire
Rotherham Kimberworth
3849/140/34
Harriet Thorpe 65 head widow
Beatrice Thomasson 10 grndau
Thomas Couldham 40
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Hi all and thanks for all your interest in my query. The 1881 census states the address as in Rotherham, and Thomas and Susannah born in Stradsett and Fincham. I did come across a death For a Thomas Coldham in Rotherham for the year 1883 I think it was just trying to find it again. I did find a Sarah Coldham age 3 in a 1871 census as a servant at an address in London with other servants working for a Henry Harris. Did wonder if she had family in that area with getting married in London. Margaret Wright on her wedding cert was a sister in law I believe.
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Is this him though?
Born Shegate? in 1901 aged 50 same address as Coleman?
Census ref RG13/4396/32/27
Keyboard86
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Re Margaret M Wright, what makes you believe someone born in Clerkenwell is a relation, the other witness Walter Covington had a wife Annie Elizabeth Hall born Norfolk though!
Keyboard86
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1901 census
Incorrectly transcribed as 2 households
Elizabeth Poldman
Age: 39 Relation to Head : Help (NOT HEAD) Single
Birth Place: Stradsett, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: Rotherham Masbrough St John the Evangelist
Rotherham Yorkshire
Rotherham North West Rotherham
Piece: 4396/ 40 /4/47
Elizabeth Poldman 39
William C Parlette 21
Florence Parlette 16
Arthur Parlette 14
Lily Parlette 11
Mary Parlette 8
The Head is William Parlette 45 widower pitt labourer below ground from Fincham Norfolk
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1901 census
Thomas Coleman
50 Relation to Head: Boarder Widower Carter
Birth Place: Shegate, Norfolk, England
Rotherham Masbrough St John the Evangelist
Rotherham Yorkshire
Rotherham North West Rotherham
4396/32/27/ 160
Frederick Buck 48 Head
Ann Buck 45
Robert Buck 21
Ellen E Buck 18
Harriett Buck 16
Frances E Buck 12
Annie E Buck 7
Thomas Coleman 50
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Hi again, so the Thomas possibly in 1891/1901 and deceased aged 75 in Rotherham is this therefore the same man as described as "Dead" at the marriage of a Louisa Sarah Coldham in 1886?
Keyboard86
PS do you agree Mary E Coldham b 1866 is Susannah's prior to marriage?
Keyboard86
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Hi yes the Thomas we are talking about does seem to have been alive still after sarahs marriage. I have looked at the census for Rotherham and also a Thomas coldham registered in the deaths there age 77 in march 1918. ::)
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:) So if Susannah was not apparently the mother of Sarah/Louisa possibly, who was?
Could Thomas Coldham at marriage have been a "made up" name for decency sake or a completly different Thomas you have followed?
This girl is a real puzzle isn't she!
Keyboard86
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I agree the funny thing is we are having a very similar problem with my nan, though in her case we are sure of her siblings ect just no record of her birth but that's another on going quandary ah!
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Crucial update.
Having recently been in touch with my great aunts granddaughter with regards information on our family tree it turns out that Sarah Coldham ! was born to Ann Elizabeth Halls a single woman who was born herself in Norfolk but was living at the time in London. She had returned to Norfolk and her family where my Grt Gran Louisa Sarah or Sarah Louisa was born. She was baptised along with her cousins who had also been born out of wedlock on 17th Oct 1874 at Downham though she was born on 8th September 1866. Her mother married Walter Covington in 1876 at St Marks Bow in London whilst louisa was left in West Dereham with her granparents George and Charlotte Halls. They all turn up together on census records in and out of Downham Union workhouse. Her mother remains in London with Walter Covington and has further children. He was a policeman. We are summising that my Grt Gran was told that her father was a Thomas Coldham hence her using that surname on her wedding certificate. It states on that certificate that her father Thomas Coldham is dead. In the 1881 census she was still living in West Dereham under the name louisa Halls 5 years later she is married using the surname Coldham. I have traced a possible father to her who had died in 1877 he being a travelling letter sorter by the name of Henry Thomas Coldham who lived in London in the same area that my Grt Grans mother was living in he was married. He died away from his wife she in London whilst he was living in Preston . trying to make some sense of this all after so long. Input welcome and thanks for all interest in this