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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: cattao on Friday 16 January 15 23:19 GMT (UK)

Title: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Friday 16 January 15 23:19 GMT (UK)
Looking for parents Christian Schmidt and Bedel Sorensen of Hans Cresteson Schmidt (from Marriage Cert in Victoria, Australia) - as the minister heard it I reckon, possibly Christian (as father?)
.
M/C states Hans birthplace - Keralrcry Station, Kolding, Denmark,Europe , birth about 1852. Hard to read that first place.
Family story is he left the family which had to be between 1880 and 1885 to return to Denmark to study music.  His Australian wife Isabella died in 1885 and no mention of husband in Funeral notice.

Any advice would be great and I hope I've put my request in the right place???
Maxine
Title: Re: DANISH FAMILY HISTORY
Post by: Rudolf H B on Saturday 17 January 15 01:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Maxine,

Hans Chrestenson might be correct, son of Chresten Schmidt.

The railway through Kolding was opened in 1866. - I have found a Kærmølle station (railway station), but this line had been opened in 1911!

Good luck
Rudolf
 
Title: Re: DANISH FAMILY HISTORY
Post by: cattao on Saturday 17 January 15 07:00 GMT (UK)
Thanks for message, what I might do is scan the section that has the name and you wonderful eople may be able to read it then.
Cheers
Maxine
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Brilau on Saturday 17 January 15 11:15 GMT (UK)
In the danish emmigration archives I found this candidate:

Name:    Schmidt, Hans Christian    Occupation:    Farmer
Age:    17    Destination:    Melbourne
Contract No .:    668900    Presentation Date:    11/09/1869
Last oph.sogn:    Ødis    Last cease. County:    Vejle
Last residence:    Ødis, Kolding County    Destination country:    Australia
Destination City:    Melbourne    Destination state:    Victoria
Ship Name:    Indirect
IDkode:    I6971S1104

http://www.udvandrerarkivet.dk/udvandrerprotokollerne/

Ødis is about 20 kilometers from Kolding.

Brian
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Rudolf H B on Saturday 17 January 15 15:08 GMT (UK)
Thank you Brian & Hi Maxine,

here are some links:

Ødis parish:  https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98dis_Sogn (https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98dis_Sogn)
- There is: Karholm (bebyggelse = settlement)

Ødis village & church:  https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98dis (https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98dis)

Cheers Rudolf


NB: It might be that he is listed somewhere online or in a printed book as student (Matrikel).
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Saturday 17 January 15 23:06 GMT (UK)
Thank you so very much once again for all the work done. 

Would that Presentation date 11/9/1869 be the date of departure and from which port would it had left.  If I can get an idea I can look at newspaper reports of the arrival of this man. I think it might just be him.   May have been a crew member also. Gold discoveries from 1850+ in Victoria drew many people from all over the world.

One other question I see SCHMIDT as from German origin, is it Danish as well? Descendants changed it to SMITH.

Many thanks again, your work is much appreciated. I've looked at the links also and translated with Google's help.
HILSEN
Maxine
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Rudolf H B on Sunday 18 January 15 00:04 GMT (UK)
Hi Maxine,

there is a Danish politican with the name https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Christian_Schmidt (https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Christian_Schmidt) (!) and there are other Danish Schmidt's.

The southern part of Danmark had been German, and at different times the northern part of Germany had been Danish...

Until 1864 Altona - today a part of Hamburg - had been an important port of Denmark!

Ports might have been Esbjerg, Altona or Hamburg, but he might have taken an other ship in England.

Rudolf
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Sunday 18 January 15 00:34 GMT (UK)
Hi again
Just found what I think is the 1860 census and the family - this is the heading.
Vejle, Norre Tyrstrup, Odis (Slesvisk) Bramdrup, 9 Kaadnersted, 134-F2, FT 1860 B1953.

The family is Christian Schmidt 35, Eier af et Kaadnersted, Huusfader (owner of Kaadnersted, Huusfader  - a better translation of this please)  birth place Kainaes, Sonderborg  ( I found Sonderborg on the map but not Kainaes).
Bodil f.  (so possibly Bedel as on on the Marriage Cert.)    Hans 8 which fits in with 9 years later he is 17. and then Soren Hansen 5  (is this male or female)

So excited to find this would love the marriage of these two??

Hilsen
 Maxine
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Brilau on Sunday 18 January 15 01:07 GMT (UK)
Hans was born as Hans Chrestensen Smed on 11 September 1852. Smed is the danish word for smith.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33574-14098-25?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZH:357517301,360473001,360496601,360501401

The parents married 6 August 1852 in Ødis:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33574-15713-26?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZH:357517301,360473001,360496601,360501401

Kådnersted is a small farm and huusfader means head of household.
Kainaes is now spelled Kegnæs.
Søren is a male name.

Brian
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Sunday 18 January 15 07:48 GMT (UK)
Fantastic, many thanks once again.  Would the 2nd column on the birth record be the baptism/christening, looks about 6 weeks later???

How wonderful Rootschat is, all this information in about 24 hours!

Maxine
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Brilau on Sunday 18 January 15 08:30 GMT (UK)
Yes, the second column is the baptism.

The birth of his mother is here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33574-15592-44?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZC:357517301,360473001,360496601,360500602

To find the birth record of Chresten Smed you have to go here:
http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_kirkeboger

Find Kegnæs under "Vælg sogn". In the book covering 1811-1835 you will find him on Opslag 66 no. 27.

Some useful information on genealogy in Denmark:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Denmark

In this part of the country many records are in german.

Brian
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Monday 19 January 15 04:47 GMT (UK)
Brian
Thanks for those links found Bodil, and managed to get to the link for the 1811-1835 book but my computer gave me the choice of opening and mistakenly I opened in Notepad and now can't get past that to open in anything else. Any ideas?  I can try the link on my iPad and another computer shortly.
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Brilau on Monday 19 January 15 16:21 GMT (UK)
I am not using Windows. Maybe this can help you:

http://247support.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9793/~/java-file-association

Brian
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Monday 19 January 15 23:50 GMT (UK)
Thanks Brian, I'll give it a try.
Maxine
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Thursday 29 January 15 00:53 GMT (UK)
Hi there
Having all the entries I can find I really need a translator for the old Danish handwriting. I've tried  here in Australia, so far no luck.  There are professionals who might be able to help  at a cost of course, so I'm asking Rootschatters if there is anyone who could handle 3 entries for me please.
Cheers
Maxine
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Isabel H on Thursday 29 January 15 09:33 GMT (UK)
Post the details here for us to have a go. It often helps to have more than one pair of eyes when reading difficult writing.
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Friday 30 January 15 01:43 GMT (UK)
When you say post the details do you mean the links which take you directly to the entries.  The actual images I have downloaded are too big to go through  here I think.
Regards
Maxine
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 30 January 15 13:05 GMT (UK)
Hans was born as Hans Chrestensen Smed on 11 September 1852.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33574-14098-25?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZH:357517301,360473001,360496601,360501401


I presume the 3 records are the ones posted here by Brilau?

Here is the translation for his birth record. The Danish records are very similar to the Swedish ones. There are a few missing words mainly because I cannot make them out, but someone else who is Danish perhaps can make them out and perhaps correct me.

Hans Christensen Smed, landbonde Christen Smed i Anhold och hustru Bodild född Hansdatter Sörensen ? ?

Faddrar
1 - Johan Johansson Lorenzen
2 - ? J.B Schmidt
3 - Kyrkan ? för Oddis




Hans Christensen Smed, farmer Christen Smed in Anhold and wife Bodild nee Hansdotter Sörensen ? ?

Godparents:
1 - Johan Johansson Lorenzen
2 - ? J.B Schmidt
3 - Church ? for Ødis



Ian

Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 30 January 15 13:13 GMT (UK)
If you go to this site:      http://www.ddd.dda.dk/dddform_uk.asp       you will be able to see the family from the 1880 census.

County: Vejle
District: Nørre Tyrstrup
Parish: Ødis

Name: Christen Smed



Ian
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Isabel H on Friday 30 January 15 19:46 GMT (UK)
3 - Church ? for Ødis

Not sure about that bit, Jamcat, though you may well be right.  I read it as "____'s hustru fra (paa?) Ødis mark" - ______'s wife from Ødis rural district.
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 30 January 15 19:53 GMT (UK)
Hi
Hmm... Looking again, it could be "hustru" but when I looked at "hustru Bodild" I didn't think they looked like the same word.

So, yeah, I agree with you. But who is her husband?

Ian

Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Isabel H on Friday 30 January 15 19:59 GMT (UK)
Ah ... that's a good question! I'm off to look for my printout of Gothic script to see if I can work it out.

See if you agree with my attempt at this record.

The birth of his mother is here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33574-15592-44?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZC:357517301,360473001,360496601,360500602

B 10 bap 17 June 1828
Bodel Hansdatter Sorensen
Daglønner  Hans Sørensen i Øddis mark og hustru  Karen (Maren?) født  Hansdatter og ___ ___
Fadderen: Claus Peder Bjerg's hustru
Margarethe Bryde?
__ Hansen
 Øddis

B 10 bap 17 June 1828
Bodel Hansdatter Sorensen
Day labourer  Hans Sørensen in Øddis rural district  and his wife  Karen (Maren?) born Hansdatter and ___? ___?
Godparents: Claus Peder Bjerg's wife
Margarethe  Bryde?
__ Hansen
All from Øddis
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 30 January 15 20:09 GMT (UK)
Hansdatter og ___ ___

Hmm. I think the second word is "datter" = daughter.


Ian

Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 30 January 15 20:49 GMT (UK)
Hansdatter og ___ ___

and the first words may be "og befödda"

so....
"og befödda dotter"
"and the born daughter"

Not too sure what that could mean though.


Ian

Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Isabel H on Friday 30 January 15 22:20 GMT (UK)
Last godparent is, I think, Jes Hansen, who appears in Ødis  in the 1855 census.

In the previous record,  I think J.B. Schmidt is actually J. P.,  probably Johan Petersen Schmidt who also appears in that census.

I can't figure out the other name. It looks almost like Kjersten, but I'm not at all sure.
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Rudolf H B on Friday 30 January 15 22:24 GMT (UK)
Hello,

husfru not hustru, hus = house / fru = wife.

today 13:05:
Christen Smed i Anhold og husfru Bodild född Hansdatter Sörensen og ... ??

There is missing something and I believe that Ian is better in reding it than me.

Regards
Rudolf
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Friday 30 January 15 23:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Ian
Thanks for the translation and yes Brian came up with the liks, The one for Bodil, mother of our boy is
The bap. of his mother Bodil is here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33574-15592-44?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZC:357517301,360473001,360496601,360500602
The last one is
To find the birth record of Chresten Smed (Hans dad) you have to go here:
http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_kirkeboger

If you get a chance can you have a go at those please.

Many thanks once again for all this time and effort.  Any help advice on Australian stuff, let me know.

Maxine

Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Isabel H on Friday 30 January 15 23:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Maxine

If you look back at reply 21# you'll see I posted Bodil's baptism earlier today.

Isabel

Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 31 January 15 00:10 GMT (UK)

husfru not hustru, hus = house / fru = wife.


Yes, of course. "Hustru" is wife in Swedish.

Ian
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 31 January 15 00:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Isabel
Do you by any chance have a Danish connection?

Ian
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Saturday 31 January 15 01:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone, you have been absolutely fantastic, it's built up a great ancestry I can put together for my friend.
Just got back in to find you had answered my last question with the translations so thanks again, all printed out and I will pass it on. It's been an interesting journey researching and learning about Denmark.
Maxine
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Brilau on Saturday 31 January 15 06:53 GMT (UK)
For Bodild I read:
Bodild Hansdr. Sørensen, Daglønner
Hans Sørensen i Øddis og Hustruens
Karen fød Hans Dr ægtefødte Datter
Faddere:
Claus Peter Bjergs Hustru
Margaretha Bryde
Jes Hansen
ibid

ægtefødte = legitimate

For Christen i Kegnæs I read:

Christen Smed, en Søn af Hans Christens Smed og
hans Hustru Anna Maria Jørgensdatt. Bon-
defolk i Tornebæk. Fadderne: Jørgen Poulsen
fra Torsthoved, Christen Smed i Sønderbye
og Cathrine Smeds(?) samme Sted.

Christen Smed a son of Hans Christensen Smed and
his wife Anna Maria Jørgensdatter, peasants
of Tornebæk. Godparents: Jørgen Poulsen
of Torsthoved, Christen Smed of Sønderby
and Cathrine Smeds(?) same place.

Brian
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 31 January 15 08:13 GMT (UK)

ægtefødte = legitimate


I take it you are Danish Brian. Thanks for the word "ægtefødte". In Swedish it is "äkta". I just couldn't read the Danish of it.
Good stuff.

Ian
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Isabel H on Saturday 31 January 15 10:11 GMT (UK)

husfru not hustru, hus = house / fru = wife.


Yes, of course. "Hustru" is wife in Swedish.

Ian

...and in Danish too. "Hustru" or "kone".  I did find "husfrue" in an online Danish-English dictionary but I have never seen it in any genealogical word lists e.g. on the Danish State Archives website.

Hi Isabel
Do you by any chance have a Danish connection?

An ex-sister-in-law, two nephews, and a brother who has lived in Denmark for many years. I can't speak Danish despite periodic attempts to learn, but I understand quite a lot when written, less when spoken. 
Isabel
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Isabel H on Saturday 31 January 15 10:51 GMT (UK)
The parents married 6 August 1852 in Ødis:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33574-15713-26?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZH:357517301,360473001,360496601,360501401
Brian 

We missed that one, so here's my attempt. Need some help to fill in blanks though.

1852
Aug 6
Ungkarl Chresten Smed,  Afdøde ________
Jacob(?) _________ Smed paa Drenderup mark
 og ____ __  hustru ___ Marie f. Jorgensen(?)
og  ___ søn _______ gammel 28 aar ______
Med (?) Pigen Bodil Hansdatter Sørensen, ___
Landboendemand Jacob Sorensen i Anholt
Og hustru(?) _____ født Hansen og ____
Datter ___ gammel 24 aar


Bachelor Chresten Smed,  deceased ________
Jacob(?) _________ blacksmith  from  Drenderup mark(i.e. countryside around Drenderup)
 and ____ __  wife ___ Marie born Jorgensen(?)
and  ___ son _______ age 28 years ______
with (?) spinster  Bodil Hansdatter Sørensen, ___
Landboendemand Jacob Sorensen in Anholt
And his wife(?) _____ born Hansen and ____
daughter ___ age 24 years

Isabel
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Brilau on Saturday 31 January 15 12:46 GMT (UK)
I read this:

Ungkarl Chresten Smed, afdøde Parcellist
Hans Chrestensen Smed paa Drenderup Mk.
og ligeledes afd. Hustru Anne Marie f. Jørgensen
ægtefødte Søn - gammel 28 Aar -
med Pigen - Bodild Hansd. Sørensen, afd.
Landboelsmand Hans Sørensen i Anholt
og Hustru Karen født Hansen ægtefødte
Datter - 24 Aar gammel. -
Vacc. 1, af Dr. Henrici ? Augustenborg d 19 Juli 1825
Attest 2, -    -   Karstens i Haderslev d 2 Sept. 1835

Bachelor Chresten Smed, legitimate son of the late
holder of a small plot of land Hans Chrestensen Smed on
Drenderup Mark and his likewise deceased wife Anne Marie
née Jørgensen - old 28 years -
with the spinster - Bodild Hansdatter Sørensen ligitimate
daughter of the late tenant farmer Hans Sørensen of Anholt
and wife Karen née Hansen - 27 years old
Vaccination 1, by Dr. Henrici of Augustenborg 19 July 1825?
Certificates 2, by Dr. Karstens in Haderslev 2 September 1835

A Danish Word List:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Danish_Word_List

Brian
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Saturday 31 January 15 23:10 GMT (UK)
Once again I say a big thank you, it's been very interesting reading all your replies and to see how us mad  genealogists help each other in various parts of the world.

How much information is on some of those entries also is amazing.
I have completed my assistance with my Danish research now for my friend so a big thanks once again and much appreciation for all the time taken by you all.
Enjoy 2015
Maxine
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: quiltinglady on Thursday 03 January 19 22:12 GMT (UK)
I just wanted to say thank you so much to everyone, for posting this information. My husband is related to this family. He is descended from Soren Hansen Schmidt/Smed, the other son of Christen Schmidt and Bodil Sorensen. I came across the posting accidentally after searching for Kainaes. Soren emigrated to South Africa, to work in the diamond diggings. If any of the people who posted this information is related to this family I would love to get in touch. Thank you again!
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: cattao on Friday 04 January 19 01:30 GMT (UK)
Gosh that post was ages ago. I was helping a friend however he has since died so no more assistance is necessary there. Keep on with your good work
Maxine
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Helen Schmidt on Saturday 03 October 20 19:16 BST (UK)
Please could someone help me with a translation from Danish regarding this family from Odis. I found the birth of Jens Schmidt in the danishfamilysearch website. Born 13th March 1874 - page 38. Link here -

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn1881/churchbook/source138091/opslag15064373

I have discovered his grave online  (photo in link below), as he emigrated to South Africa to work on the diamond mines, and I am trying to find his parents.


https://www.google.com/search?q=jens+schmidt+holpan&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS855US855&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi0rMPdgpnsAhXqg-AKHd62DSYQ_AUoAnoECAwQBA&biw=1920&bih=969#imgrc=kdiZz_OA7N4WSM

Many thanks,  Helen

Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 04 October 20 13:08 BST (UK)
Hi Helen and welcome to RootsChat.

Difficult handwriting unfortunately.

Jens Johansen Smidt.
Baptized 3 May in church.
Father is Johan Petersen Smidt, farmer from Odis and wife Elsaborg nee Larsen.

The witnesses are very difficult to make out. I see:
Peter Landgard?
Elisabeth ?
Peter Benningsen

The mother was 36 years old.


Ian

Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Helen Schmidt on Sunday 04 October 20 17:20 BST (UK)
Thank you Ian, I appreciate you trying despite the handwriting!  Very helpful. regards  Helen
Title: Re: SCHMIDT and SORENSEN - Danish Family History
Post by: Isabel H on Monday 12 October 20 19:39 BST (UK)
I think the first witness is Christoffer Fisker, farmer, Drenderup, and the second could be
Peter Langvad's wife ____ Ødis.

These people can be found in the DDD (Dansk Demografisk Database)