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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: cattao on Friday 16 January 15 23:19 GMT (UK)
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Looking for parents Christian Schmidt and Bedel Sorensen of Hans Cresteson Schmidt (from Marriage Cert in Victoria, Australia) - as the minister heard it I reckon, possibly Christian (as father?)
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M/C states Hans birthplace - Keralrcry Station, Kolding, Denmark,Europe , birth about 1852. Hard to read that first place.
Family story is he left the family which had to be between 1880 and 1885 to return to Denmark to study music. His Australian wife Isabella died in 1885 and no mention of husband in Funeral notice.
Any advice would be great and I hope I've put my request in the right place???
Maxine
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Hi Maxine,
Hans Chrestenson might be correct, son of Chresten Schmidt.
The railway through Kolding was opened in 1866. - I have found a Kærmølle station (railway station), but this line had been opened in 1911!
Good luck
Rudolf
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Thanks for message, what I might do is scan the section that has the name and you wonderful eople may be able to read it then.
Cheers
Maxine
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In the danish emmigration archives I found this candidate:
Name: Schmidt, Hans Christian Occupation: Farmer
Age: 17 Destination: Melbourne
Contract No .: 668900 Presentation Date: 11/09/1869
Last oph.sogn: Ødis Last cease. County: Vejle
Last residence: Ødis, Kolding County Destination country: Australia
Destination City: Melbourne Destination state: Victoria
Ship Name: Indirect
IDkode: I6971S1104
http://www.udvandrerarkivet.dk/udvandrerprotokollerne/
Ødis is about 20 kilometers from Kolding.
Brian
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Thank you Brian & Hi Maxine,
here are some links:
Ødis parish: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98dis_Sogn (https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98dis_Sogn)
- There is: Karholm (bebyggelse = settlement)
Ødis village & church: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98dis (https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98dis)
Cheers Rudolf
NB: It might be that he is listed somewhere online or in a printed book as student (Matrikel).
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Thank you so very much once again for all the work done.
Would that Presentation date 11/9/1869 be the date of departure and from which port would it had left. If I can get an idea I can look at newspaper reports of the arrival of this man. I think it might just be him. May have been a crew member also. Gold discoveries from 1850+ in Victoria drew many people from all over the world.
One other question I see SCHMIDT as from German origin, is it Danish as well? Descendants changed it to SMITH.
Many thanks again, your work is much appreciated. I've looked at the links also and translated with Google's help.
HILSEN
Maxine
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Hi Maxine,
there is a Danish politican with the name https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Christian_Schmidt (https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Christian_Schmidt) (!) and there are other Danish Schmidt's.
The southern part of Danmark had been German, and at different times the northern part of Germany had been Danish...
Until 1864 Altona - today a part of Hamburg - had been an important port of Denmark!
Ports might have been Esbjerg, Altona or Hamburg, but he might have taken an other ship in England.
Rudolf
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Hi again
Just found what I think is the 1860 census and the family - this is the heading.
Vejle, Norre Tyrstrup, Odis (Slesvisk) Bramdrup, 9 Kaadnersted, 134-F2, FT 1860 B1953.
The family is Christian Schmidt 35, Eier af et Kaadnersted, Huusfader (owner of Kaadnersted, Huusfader - a better translation of this please) birth place Kainaes, Sonderborg ( I found Sonderborg on the map but not Kainaes).
Bodil f. (so possibly Bedel as on on the Marriage Cert.) Hans 8 which fits in with 9 years later he is 17. and then Soren Hansen 5 (is this male or female)
So excited to find this would love the marriage of these two??
Hilsen
Maxine
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Hans was born as Hans Chrestensen Smed on 11 September 1852. Smed is the danish word for smith.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33574-14098-25?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZH:357517301,360473001,360496601,360501401
The parents married 6 August 1852 in Ødis:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33574-15713-26?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZH:357517301,360473001,360496601,360501401
Kådnersted is a small farm and huusfader means head of household.
Kainaes is now spelled Kegnæs.
Søren is a male name.
Brian
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Fantastic, many thanks once again. Would the 2nd column on the birth record be the baptism/christening, looks about 6 weeks later???
How wonderful Rootschat is, all this information in about 24 hours!
Maxine
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Yes, the second column is the baptism.
The birth of his mother is here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33574-15592-44?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZC:357517301,360473001,360496601,360500602
To find the birth record of Chresten Smed you have to go here:
http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_kirkeboger
Find Kegnæs under "Vælg sogn". In the book covering 1811-1835 you will find him on Opslag 66 no. 27.
Some useful information on genealogy in Denmark:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Denmark
In this part of the country many records are in german.
Brian
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Brian
Thanks for those links found Bodil, and managed to get to the link for the 1811-1835 book but my computer gave me the choice of opening and mistakenly I opened in Notepad and now can't get past that to open in anything else. Any ideas? I can try the link on my iPad and another computer shortly.
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I am not using Windows. Maybe this can help you:
http://247support.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9793/~/java-file-association
Brian
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Thanks Brian, I'll give it a try.
Maxine
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Hi there
Having all the entries I can find I really need a translator for the old Danish handwriting. I've tried here in Australia, so far no luck. There are professionals who might be able to help at a cost of course, so I'm asking Rootschatters if there is anyone who could handle 3 entries for me please.
Cheers
Maxine
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Post the details here for us to have a go. It often helps to have more than one pair of eyes when reading difficult writing.
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When you say post the details do you mean the links which take you directly to the entries. The actual images I have downloaded are too big to go through here I think.
Regards
Maxine
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Hans was born as Hans Chrestensen Smed on 11 September 1852.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33574-14098-25?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZH:357517301,360473001,360496601,360501401
I presume the 3 records are the ones posted here by Brilau?
Here is the translation for his birth record. The Danish records are very similar to the Swedish ones. There are a few missing words mainly because I cannot make them out, but someone else who is Danish perhaps can make them out and perhaps correct me.
Hans Christensen Smed, landbonde Christen Smed i Anhold och hustru Bodild född Hansdatter Sörensen ? ?
Faddrar
1 - Johan Johansson Lorenzen
2 - ? J.B Schmidt
3 - Kyrkan ? för Oddis
Hans Christensen Smed, farmer Christen Smed in Anhold and wife Bodild nee Hansdotter Sörensen ? ?
Godparents:
1 - Johan Johansson Lorenzen
2 - ? J.B Schmidt
3 - Church ? for Ødis
Ian
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If you go to this site: http://www.ddd.dda.dk/dddform_uk.asp you will be able to see the family from the 1880 census.
County: Vejle
District: Nørre Tyrstrup
Parish: Ødis
Name: Christen Smed
Ian
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3 - Church ? for Ødis
Not sure about that bit, Jamcat, though you may well be right. I read it as "____'s hustru fra (paa?) Ødis mark" - ______'s wife from Ødis rural district.
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Hi
Hmm... Looking again, it could be "hustru" but when I looked at "hustru Bodild" I didn't think they looked like the same word.
So, yeah, I agree with you. But who is her husband?
Ian
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Ah ... that's a good question! I'm off to look for my printout of Gothic script to see if I can work it out.
See if you agree with my attempt at this record.
The birth of his mother is here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33574-15592-44?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZC:357517301,360473001,360496601,360500602
B 10 bap 17 June 1828
Bodel Hansdatter Sorensen
Daglønner Hans Sørensen i Øddis mark og hustru Karen (Maren?) født Hansdatter og ___ ___
Fadderen: Claus Peder Bjerg's hustru
Margarethe Bryde?
__ Hansen
Øddis
B 10 bap 17 June 1828
Bodel Hansdatter Sorensen
Day labourer Hans Sørensen in Øddis rural district and his wife Karen (Maren?) born Hansdatter and ___? ___?
Godparents: Claus Peder Bjerg's wife
Margarethe Bryde?
__ Hansen
All from Øddis
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Hansdatter og ___ ___
Hmm. I think the second word is "datter" = daughter.
Ian
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Hansdatter og ___ ___
and the first words may be "og befödda"
so....
"og befödda dotter"
"and the born daughter"
Not too sure what that could mean though.
Ian
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Last godparent is, I think, Jes Hansen, who appears in Ødis in the 1855 census.
In the previous record, I think J.B. Schmidt is actually J. P., probably Johan Petersen Schmidt who also appears in that census.
I can't figure out the other name. It looks almost like Kjersten, but I'm not at all sure.
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Hello,
husfru not hustru, hus = house / fru = wife.
today 13:05:
Christen Smed i Anhold og husfru Bodild född Hansdatter Sörensen og ... ??
There is missing something and I believe that Ian is better in reding it than me.
Regards
Rudolf
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Hi Ian
Thanks for the translation and yes Brian came up with the liks, The one for Bodil, mother of our boy is
The bap. of his mother Bodil is here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-33574-15592-44?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZC:357517301,360473001,360496601,360500602
The last one is
To find the birth record of Chresten Smed (Hans dad) you have to go here:
http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_kirkeboger
If you get a chance can you have a go at those please.
Many thanks once again for all this time and effort. Any help advice on Australian stuff, let me know.
Maxine
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Hi Maxine
If you look back at reply 21# you'll see I posted Bodil's baptism earlier today.
Isabel
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husfru not hustru, hus = house / fru = wife.
Yes, of course. "Hustru" is wife in Swedish.
Ian
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Hi Isabel
Do you by any chance have a Danish connection?
Ian
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Thanks everyone, you have been absolutely fantastic, it's built up a great ancestry I can put together for my friend.
Just got back in to find you had answered my last question with the translations so thanks again, all printed out and I will pass it on. It's been an interesting journey researching and learning about Denmark.
Maxine
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For Bodild I read:
Bodild Hansdr. Sørensen, Daglønner
Hans Sørensen i Øddis og Hustruens
Karen fød Hans Dr ægtefødte Datter
Faddere:
Claus Peter Bjergs Hustru
Margaretha Bryde
Jes Hansen
ibid
ægtefødte = legitimate
For Christen i Kegnæs I read:
Christen Smed, en Søn af Hans Christens Smed og
hans Hustru Anna Maria Jørgensdatt. Bon-
defolk i Tornebæk. Fadderne: Jørgen Poulsen
fra Torsthoved, Christen Smed i Sønderbye
og Cathrine Smeds(?) samme Sted.
Christen Smed a son of Hans Christensen Smed and
his wife Anna Maria Jørgensdatter, peasants
of Tornebæk. Godparents: Jørgen Poulsen
of Torsthoved, Christen Smed of Sønderby
and Cathrine Smeds(?) same place.
Brian
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ægtefødte = legitimate
I take it you are Danish Brian. Thanks for the word "ægtefødte". In Swedish it is "äkta". I just couldn't read the Danish of it.
Good stuff.
Ian
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husfru not hustru, hus = house / fru = wife.
Yes, of course. "Hustru" is wife in Swedish.
Ian
...and in Danish too. "Hustru" or "kone". I did find "husfrue" in an online Danish-English dictionary but I have never seen it in any genealogical word lists e.g. on the Danish State Archives website.
Hi Isabel
Do you by any chance have a Danish connection?
An ex-sister-in-law, two nephews, and a brother who has lived in Denmark for many years. I can't speak Danish despite periodic attempts to learn, but I understand quite a lot when written, less when spoken.
Isabel
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The parents married 6 August 1852 in Ødis:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-33574-15713-26?cc=2078555&wc=M5KL-HZH:357517301,360473001,360496601,360501401
Brian
We missed that one, so here's my attempt. Need some help to fill in blanks though.
1852
Aug 6
Ungkarl Chresten Smed, Afdøde ________
Jacob(?) _________ Smed paa Drenderup mark
og ____ __ hustru ___ Marie f. Jorgensen(?)
og ___ søn _______ gammel 28 aar ______
Med (?) Pigen Bodil Hansdatter Sørensen, ___
Landboendemand Jacob Sorensen i Anholt
Og hustru(?) _____ født Hansen og ____
Datter ___ gammel 24 aar
Bachelor Chresten Smed, deceased ________
Jacob(?) _________ blacksmith from Drenderup mark(i.e. countryside around Drenderup)
and ____ __ wife ___ Marie born Jorgensen(?)
and ___ son _______ age 28 years ______
with (?) spinster Bodil Hansdatter Sørensen, ___
Landboendemand Jacob Sorensen in Anholt
And his wife(?) _____ born Hansen and ____
daughter ___ age 24 years
Isabel
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I read this:
Ungkarl Chresten Smed, afdøde Parcellist
Hans Chrestensen Smed paa Drenderup Mk.
og ligeledes afd. Hustru Anne Marie f. Jørgensen
ægtefødte Søn - gammel 28 Aar -
med Pigen - Bodild Hansd. Sørensen, afd.
Landboelsmand Hans Sørensen i Anholt
og Hustru Karen født Hansen ægtefødte
Datter - 24 Aar gammel. -
Vacc. 1, af Dr. Henrici ? Augustenborg d 19 Juli 1825
Attest 2, - - Karstens i Haderslev d 2 Sept. 1835
Bachelor Chresten Smed, legitimate son of the late
holder of a small plot of land Hans Chrestensen Smed on
Drenderup Mark and his likewise deceased wife Anne Marie
née Jørgensen - old 28 years -
with the spinster - Bodild Hansdatter Sørensen ligitimate
daughter of the late tenant farmer Hans Sørensen of Anholt
and wife Karen née Hansen - 27 years old
Vaccination 1, by Dr. Henrici of Augustenborg 19 July 1825?
Certificates 2, by Dr. Karstens in Haderslev 2 September 1835
A Danish Word List:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Danish_Word_List
Brian
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Once again I say a big thank you, it's been very interesting reading all your replies and to see how us mad genealogists help each other in various parts of the world.
How much information is on some of those entries also is amazing.
I have completed my assistance with my Danish research now for my friend so a big thanks once again and much appreciation for all the time taken by you all.
Enjoy 2015
Maxine
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I just wanted to say thank you so much to everyone, for posting this information. My husband is related to this family. He is descended from Soren Hansen Schmidt/Smed, the other son of Christen Schmidt and Bodil Sorensen. I came across the posting accidentally after searching for Kainaes. Soren emigrated to South Africa, to work in the diamond diggings. If any of the people who posted this information is related to this family I would love to get in touch. Thank you again!
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Gosh that post was ages ago. I was helping a friend however he has since died so no more assistance is necessary there. Keep on with your good work
Maxine
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Please could someone help me with a translation from Danish regarding this family from Odis. I found the birth of Jens Schmidt in the danishfamilysearch website. Born 13th March 1874 - page 38. Link here -
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn1881/churchbook/source138091/opslag15064373
I have discovered his grave online (photo in link below), as he emigrated to South Africa to work on the diamond mines, and I am trying to find his parents.
https://www.google.com/search?q=jens+schmidt+holpan&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS855US855&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi0rMPdgpnsAhXqg-AKHd62DSYQ_AUoAnoECAwQBA&biw=1920&bih=969#imgrc=kdiZz_OA7N4WSM
Many thanks, Helen
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Hi Helen and welcome to RootsChat.
Difficult handwriting unfortunately.
Jens Johansen Smidt.
Baptized 3 May in church.
Father is Johan Petersen Smidt, farmer from Odis and wife Elsaborg nee Larsen.
The witnesses are very difficult to make out. I see:
Peter Landgard?
Elisabeth ?
Peter Benningsen
The mother was 36 years old.
Ian
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Thank you Ian, I appreciate you trying despite the handwriting! Very helpful. regards Helen
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I think the first witness is Christoffer Fisker, farmer, Drenderup, and the second could be
Peter Langvad's wife ____ Ødis.
These people can be found in the DDD (Dansk Demografisk Database)