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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: eversg on Wednesday 28 January 15 03:13 GMT (UK)
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I'm researching the Forbes who were millers near Ardessie near Little Loch Broom and later near Gairloch by Poolewe. I noticed on a google map of the Little Loch Broom area a place identified as "Forbes P M". It is located east of Eilean Darach Lodge. Would someone be able to explain the origin of the naming of this place and explain what the "P" amd the "M" represent?
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Hi ,
If you Google Forbes P M , Garve it seems to be a name(of a person or company) rather than a map feature.
Can't see anything on earlier maps.
ev
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Thanks, for the suggestion. Adding Garve to my search yields more useful info.
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eversg, there was a John Forbes a government factor on the forfeited Lovat estates who complained in a letter that there were no mills on his charge and that the people all resorted to hand-querns. Probably this was also the case on the forfeited Mackenzie estates in Wester Ross and that this Forbes the miller, an unusual name there, was new to the area, as was the mill.
Milling ran in families, where did they originally come from? who was the government factor there? if it was the same John Forbes you can be sure that this is likely to be a relation.
Skoosh.
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Thanks, Skoosh. Your response has introduced me to government factors (an unfamilliar occupational term to this Canadian), hand-querns and the history of the forfeited estates - interesting reading ahead. The Forbes millers that I'm investigating lived in the 1800s, about a century after the events to which you refer. However, perhaps previous generations of Forbes were millers too. A George Forbes, born around 1808 in Kilmorack or Beauly - places that are near the Lovat Estates (so I have learned) - was my gg-grandfather. By the time of the 1841 census he had relocated to run a mill at Ardessie, near Little Loch Broom. Milling was indeed a family business, since his brother, Robert ran a mill at Second Coast in the parish of Gairloch. Looking forward to learning more.
Grant
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Grant, an estate mill was a source of revenue for the laird, the tenants were "thirled" to that mill and nowhere else and a portion of the meal ground went to the miller. He sold this meal and thus paid his rent. He also had the power to destroy querns where he found them and the tenants were also required to provide so many days free labour a year towards the upkeep of the mill & lades, much resented apparently. Interesting that your folk were from the Beauly area, Forbes of Culloden who organised the resistance of the Hanoverian clans in the '45 had a wee estate called Bunchrew just west of Inverness and was Lovat's neighbour. Lovat played a double game and turned his coat so many times he couldn't tell out from in. He ended up on the block and possibly this Captain John Forbes who factored the estates was one of the Culloden family. Culloden's losses in the Rebellion, (Culloden House was looted of its fine furniture by redcoat officers who shipped it to London), were compensated in part by a license to distill whisky.
Gairloch's estates were not forfeit as Mackenzie of Gairloch kept clear of the rebellion unlike Cromarty, Scatwell & Fairburn for example. The Mackenzie's originate on the west coast but most lairds also had estates in the east, where they lived in the Winter. If one of those families died in the west their coffin was shouldered by relays of hundreds of their tenants over the hills, to Beauly for burial, much lubricated by whisky it must be said! :) When Forbes of Culloden's mother died the grief-stricken funeral party arrived at the kirkyard minus the coffin, the Forbes's were renowned for their fondness for a hauf.
By 1800 the old feudal milling exactions had been abolished but they probably never existed in Wester Ross anyhow. My own ancestors were also millers and a good book on the subject is "The Scottish Country Miller, 1700-1900," by Enid Gauldie, pub' John Donald.
The only Forbes mentioned in the book is Captain John Forbes, it's just strange that at the time he's writing to the Government for permission to build mills in 1755, millers of that name appear in Wester Ross shortly afterwards.
Bests,
Skoosh.
Found a reference to a meal mill at Bunchrew
http://bunchrewhousehotel.com/history/the-forbes-clan/
Also a reference in the Inverness records of an Alexander Forbes, the miller at Castlehill Mill, June 3, 1603.
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Very interesting history. I'll try to locate a copy of the book by Enid Gauldie. Another book with links to Captain Forbes is "Scotland Farewell: The Story of the Hector" by Donald McKay. My direct Forbes connection essentially ends in 1873 with the passing of George Forbes. I am descended from a daughter of George who married a crofter, Roderick Macleod, of Inverasdale on Lock Ewe. On a trip to Scotland in 2012, we saw the site of George Forbes' old mill at Boor which is located just south of Poolewe. While visiting the local Gairloch museum, we spoke at the time with a volunteer who was compiling info on the history of milling in the area. I am now very curious about what led George Forbes to become a miller and then move to Ross-shire from Kilmorack.
Cheers,
Grant
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Yes, the P Forbes is the name of people that farm at Eilean Darrach. There is no trace of the mill at Ardessie but you can still see the mill at second coast.
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Yes, the P Forbes is the name of people that farm at Eilean Darrach. There is no trace of the mill at Ardessie but you can still see the mill at second coast.
Thanks for the info. Upon receiving your post, through googling I found a photo of the ruins of the mill at Second Coast and others of this beautiful remote hamlet.
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Hello, just to say that no trace of the mill is to be seen at Ardessie as it had a great flood about 40 or so years ago and again last August, the burn at Ardessie has changed shape but the waterfall is still spectacular. You can see lots of old photos on face book Little Lochbroom page.
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Thanks for letting me know about the Ardessie Mill and alerting me to the facebook Litlle Lochbroom page. Could you direct me to the "old photos" to which you refer - not sure where they are. Thanks.
Grant
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I think Ardessie means the high waterfall?
Skoosh.
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Hello, you just have to go through the time line of posts to see the old photographs and you would also see the present Ardessie just post of the flooding in August 2014. If you can't find any just send a member request and I would tag you to the photo if you can't find any.
Yes 'Ard' means high ground/area Skoosh.
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Great old and recent photos of Loch Broom area. Must have been a horrible flood last August. Couldn't find the photos at first because I was searching " Little Loch Broom". Thanks for informing me about photos of Ardessie!
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The November issue of the Highland Family History Society journal has an article on Gairloch, Wester Ross by Kathy Elam, "The Mill at Strath" & it's Forbes family of millers & their origin.
www.highlandfamilyhistorysociety.org
Skoosh.
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The Forbes millers that I'm investigating lived in the 1800s, about a century after the events to which you refer. However, perhaps previous generations of Forbes were millers too. A George Forbes, born around 1808 in Kilmorack or Beauly - places that are near the Lovat Estates (so I have learned) - was my gg-grandfather. By the time of the 1841 census he had relocated to run a mill at Ardessie, near Little Loch Broom. Milling was indeed a family business, since his brother, Robert ran a mill at Second Coast in the parish of Gairloch.
Hiya Grant,
I have a webpage focused on Coigach, the north-west third of Lochbroom Parish. On the page are annotated transcriptions of the 19th century censuses, weak for the south-east part which after 1857 was administered for Civil Registration separate from the rest of the Barony. Have recently been adding bits for that neglected area, which includes Ullapool, largest town in the Parish.
I see a Robert Forbes, miller, there in 1841, and a James Forbes, miller with sister Isabel, in 1851, I think were Roberts' son and daughter. Also with Robert in 1841 were young MacKay children, and newspaper articles refer to the disgraceful eviction in the late 19th century of a Widow MacKay, noting her family had been millers there for generations.
Is that Robert Forbes the same one who you note as having a mill at Second Coast? See;
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~coigach/ullapool.htm#41-29 (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~coigach/ullapool.htm#41-29)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~coigach/ullapool.htm#51-162 (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~coigach/ullapool.htm#51-162)
All the best from Niagara,
Donald.
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Only 3 years late replying to your question...duh. Sorry for the delay. My ancestry pursuits have gone in other directions, Yes, a Robert Forbes was the Miller at Second Coast.
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Only 3 years late replying to your question...duh. Sorry for the delay. My ancestry pursuits have gone in other directions, Yes, a Robert Forbes was the Miller at Second Coast.
Hi Don_Niagara,
Was re-reading the info you posted on the millers of Ullapool and area - what a treasure trove of ancestral detail! I’m writing an ancestral blog that may in part be of interest to readers:
ourfthistory@blogspot.com
Cheers,
Grant
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Hello, it maybe of interest to you that there is now a facebook page called Historic Little Lochbroom dedicated to old photos and stories of the parish.
best,
Mo
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Hi, I'm new to this group.
eversg, I was following this family of Forbes as I live in the Loch Ewe area and follow Local History.
They were near Erchless Castle near Struy between Beauly and Cannich, they moved about as millers before settling at Second Coast they later moved to Aultbea , although the mill is no more.
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Welcome to RootsChat, hairypeatcutter.
Can you give us some approximate dates for your Forbes family? It helps to know which century to look in :)
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Forfarian, Robert Forbes is in Kilmorack Parish near Erchless having children baptised in OPR
1808, feb 1, Robert Forbes, Carpenter, Cnoc Voit, a son George.
( I spent some time trying to find Cnoc Voit on maps, it's a mound in what is now a field near the road bridge to Struy going from Erchelss)
1810 may 1, Robert Forbes, Carpenter, Erchless, son Alex
1818 nov 24, Robert Forbes, Elder, daut Catherine.
There are a lot of Forbes in the Kilmorack area, just to confuse things !
I am/ was interested in the Loch Ewe area and although there appear to be numerous Forbes in the Ullapool area I didn't look into it to sort out who is who
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So when were they in the parish of Gairloch?
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I did a family tree some 20 years ago of the family and gave it to a family member, I couldn't have made a copy for myself at the time,
have found a 1871 census
Alex Forbes head mar Mealmiller, b strathglass, 56yrs
Flora " " wife mar b little gruinard 40
Robert " son un b 2nd coast 18
Margaret " daut " " 16
Alex " son scholar " " 14
George " son scholar " " 12
Abbie " daut " " 9
William " son " " 7
Kenneth " son " " 5
Mary Ann " daut " " 2
in the same census George Forbes is at Lot 1 and 2 at Strath, Gairloch
He is 60 yrs old, a miller, born Kilmorack with 6 of a family along with Sybilla, his wife born Loch Broom.
I note Georges eldest child was 27yrs old and born Poolewe, so that would be Boor.
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Hi,
I'm currently reading files associated with the Dundonnell Outrages.
When Kenneth Mackenzie died in 1826 it was found he'd left the estate of Dundonnell to his brother-in-law, Robert Roy and other members of his wife's (Kenneth) family, to the exclusion of his brother and sister. According to Malcolm Bangor Jones, "This settlement produced a good deal of ill-feeling both within the family and throughout Ross-shire." No one was ever brought to trial but the investigation contains many interesting facts about those involved and those interviewed.
Robert Forbes was one of several accused of or being an accessory to 'willful fire-raising' and other crimes.
Robert Forbes was a miller at Inverlael and later Ullapool. Some time between 1826-28 he had the charge of the mill at Dundonnell. His wife, Abigail Mackenzie is noted as an illegitimate sister of Kenneth Mackenzie.
These files are available through Scottish Indexes.
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Wow, that's great infomation, the family members locally are a bit "firey", perhaps it's a family thing !
When you say "Scottish Indexes" would that be the N.R.S. in Edinburgh ?
I've heard of Dundonnel Cause but not Dundonnel Outrages.
I'm interested in Local History and was looking at the Forbes in the area ( 10+ years ago ), I made notes when staying in Inverness, just to sort out who was in this branch of the family.
I see I have
Christining, Forbes, Abigail - Father Robert Forbes
10 July 1822 R-C Loch Broom, ( not sure what R-C means ).
I will be away working during the summer but hope to look up Birth, Deaths, Marriages in Inverness via Scotlands People, so can check the census and O.P.R. as well
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When you say "Scottish Indexes" would that be the N.R.S. in Edinburgh ?
No, it's an independent commercial web site that does sterling work in accessing material that isn't otherwise available online.
https://www.scottishindexes.com/default.aspx
There's another similar site at https://www.oldscottish.com/
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Thank you, I've not come across Scottish Indexes before.
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Hi, glad to see Forfarian has already answered the question re Scottish Indexes. I’ve just seen I -inaccurately - noted Robert Forbes wife as Abigail Mackenzie. This should read Isabella. The Abigail mentioned in these files was married to George Robertson.
Regards
D
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Thanks JazzaD
When I was looking into this family of Forbes I was just trying to follow them back to see where they had come from, the furthest back I went was the birth of Roberts children, as I'd found them on the OPR I didn't bother to look for the marriage, I noticed Forbes in the census at Ullapool and had been told by a family member they'd been over in the Ullapool direction but as some of the names were different I took it to be a relation of the forbes in this area and left it at that, my real interest is Letterewe and Gruinard Estate :).
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The Forbes family who millers in Little lochbroom are my ancestors.