RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => One Name Studies => One Name Studies: A to G => Topic started by: Antonden on Thursday 29 January 15 08:52 GMT (UK)
-
Interested in these names with various spellings thereof. My centre of research is the borderlands of Denbighshire, Flintshire, Cheshire and Shropshire; then adjacent counties. Obviously families move so I'm happy to receive information from anywhere. Thanks. Taff.
-
Do you have a John Bernard Almond(1927-1983) in Chester both who married my relative at Chester in 1950?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Nope don't have that one.
T
-
Hi William,
Interesting.
It 'looks' like John B ALMOND b 1927 links into my spreadsheet (although no link established to me) but it's not certain. If he is the son of William and Anne then I'm struggling to find him in the 1911 census.
Did you know there are 2 John B ALMONDs marrying in Chester within 3 years of each other!
Tony
-
I hadn't noticed the two John B Almonds marrying!There is also a possibility he could be the son of a Charles Thomas Almond and Esther Annie Hughes who married in 1911.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Unlikely but not impossible.
Charles is one of mine. There are 2 children I've attributed to him - b1914 and 1918 in Wrexham. A 9 year gap is a long time and it's also in Chester.
T
-
Of course as he only married one of my relatives I haven't really looked for him till now,just noting his mother's maiden name to be Hughes!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Hi TAff
I have an Allman/Almond /Almon from Cheshire.
Mostly Siddington/Capesthorne/Prestbury.
John Almond ch 1773 Withington (nr Prestbury), father Thomas.
Thomas Almon ch 21 Feb 1747 Siddington, father William.
Not found William's birth, but dies 1801 Siddington aged about 80 - I like him - he was a 'button mould turner' - I got into the history of silk buttons in Macclesfield in the 1700s - fascinating! He also turns out to have been a bit of a rogue, marrying his uncle's widow (a hotly disputed topic as to whether that was incestuous!)
I have William's father, John, but before that the trail goes cold.
I have lots of info on these families if you're interested, or you can shed any light on them before 1700.
Cheers :)
-
Hi Goldie,
I'm starting to record any and all info on Allmans. I'll look at your John tomorrow. See if he's in my Spreadsheet.
T
-
Couldn't resist having a look. I've got some of that info. but as it doesn't yet seem to connect with mine I've kinda left it to one side. I notice from my info. that William who died in 1801 left a Will!
-
William's Will is very useful indeed.
I note you say William's F is John. Is this the John who married Sarah Williamson?
T
-
Yes I've got William's will.
And yes, William's parents were John and Sarah Williamson married 1720 Prestbury. Her father was William Williamson, who died 27 April 1734 Siddington, also a button mould turner. Also left a will.
No record of a christening for William Almon , but there is one for brothers Joseph 1725, John 1723, and sister Sarah 1727 Siddington/Capesthorne.
Also a VERY interesting settlement order for Thomas Almon (William's son), wife Esther and children William, Jesse, Mary and John in 1774, which gives some background to the family.
Still don't know where John Almon hailed from though, to marry in Prestbury in 1720. Any ideas?
-
Yes I've got those 3 baptisms.
How do you know John is William's father?
Have you found William's marriage to Margaret?
In the front of the Siddington Register it mentions that children were baptised there before the register started. If William was 1st born, he may simply be not recorded.
Do you have John and Sarah's death dates? If I can get a fix on the age/dob it might help to locate any possibilities.
Tony
-
I have only just been able to prove that William’s father was John Almon, and his mother Sarah after 30 years of looking! It has taken a lot of digging, and it has only come to light as more and more things get put on the internet – not possible for me to go to Chester RO and rummage through all their documents – as much as I would like to!
Here goes trying to explain it.
The will of William Williamson of Siddington, mould turner, was written initially in 1734, and mentions ‘my daughter Sarah Alman’
This is the Sarah married to John Alman 1720 Prestbury - we know she was Sarah Williamson.
She has a brother Joseph Williamson mentioned in the will (only son). (Another of John Almon and Sarah’s children christened Joseph).
He died in 1737, and there is a codicil to William Williamson’s will dated 1739, saying that his (William’s) wife Martha is now the sole surviving executor of the will.
Joseph was married 17.1.1731 to Margaret Gallymore.
The rest is explained in the settlement certificate for William’s son Thomas.
If you’d like to send me your email address on a Personal Message here on Rootschat, I can send it to you. It takes some reading to get your head around! – at least it did with me until I found William Williamson’s will as well, then it fell into place.
I can’t find any Almon (+ alternatives) wills or bmd entries around this area prior to the marriage of John and Sarah in 1720. There seem to be lots in Chester itself – maybe they migrated west a bit.
There is an interesting item under Chester Quarter Sessions Nov 30th 1715, where John Meredith is accused of killing John Almond, labourer, by walloping him over the head with the hilt of his sword! All good stuff!
Not got any deaths for John and Sarah in my files – but then as I said, I have only just (literally this week!), confirmed they were William’s parents. I shall have to have another trawl though.
-
At least you're on a solid footing with your Wills etc.
There are a LOT of Allmans in Chester, Liverpool and Manchester, not to mention Cheshire and Shropshire; mustn't forget about Yorkshire either. So it could be a long haul! I am currently working on Chester Almonds and slowly building up families but I do end up with a lot of 'strays'.
William Almon's daughter Margaret marries a Gallimore doesn't she.
Do any of your Almonds go anywhere else?
Do any of your Almonds or descendants have any connection with 'Thorneycroft Hall' in the 19th century?
Tony
I don't know if you've considered ORMOND as an alternative spelling? There are several born to a John around 1770 for example, these may be John and Susannah's children.
-
I've sent you the settlement dispute to your email.
Very interesting.
Not found that my Allman's really venture very far from this area of Cheshire.
To Cheadle briefly, but then back to Alderley.
Not found any of them at Thorneycroft Hall.
Yes, Thomas' sister Margaret married William Gallimore in 1783 -
has to be connected to the same family somewhere.
I think the father of the 'wife' of William Allman, Margaret GAllimore , was a William Gallimore.
Quite a lot of them around the area.
I have looked at a couple of Gallimore wills, but not found a connection yet.
I have found a marriage of a William Gallimore from Lower Withington in 1665 - possibly MArgaret's grandfather.
-
Have you got any further details on the Chester Quarter Sessions Nov 30th 1715 that you mentioned?
I can match it to one of ‘my’ Johns.
I have in my Spreadsheet the following marriage:
William ALLMAN of LOWER WITHINGTON
Sarah NORBURY
BOTP
29 Dec 1790
Place of Marriage:
Holy Trinity, Chester
Looking at Joseph WILLIAMSON, the only match is one BAP in Goostrey BAP 14 Mar 1702.
Couldn't find a Baptism for Sarah.
Tony
-
The ref in the quarter sessions at Chester is ZQC1/19/3 – coroners inquests.
He was killed ‘at the house of Edward Oulton, brewer, without the Northgate’ – perhaps they had all drunk too much!
I haven’t sent for the actual document – but Chester RO are very helpful – and they will send as a colour scan by email of the document as you saw in the settlement dispute – almost like the real thing! Not expensive.
http://archive.cheshire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=ZQ%2fCI%2f19%2f3&pos=4
I wonder if the William Allman who married in 1790 was the son of Thomas of the settlement order, son of William died 1801 the button mould turner? The grandson William was born 1768, so that would fit with a marriage of 1790. Interesting they were married in Chester – perhaps the family did have some connection with the Chester Allmans.
-
Re. Census
There is a Hester Almond (72) b Siddington living in Lower Withington in 1841.
There is a Jesse Alman (70) living in BOLLINFEE in 1841, with a younger Jesse (25 b Siddington) and family. In the 1851 census there is a Sam WILLIAMSON with them.
-
Hester may be the Esther daughter of Thomas of the settlement. She was born 1779 which would make her 62 -- but hey, 72 sounds better! And the BTs for Thomas' marriage gives his wife as Hester.
Jesse is almost certainly the son of Thomas - he is mentioned in the settlement dispute papers, and I haven't come across another Jesse. Haven't found a christening for him, but as Thomas and Esther Goodwin were married in 1768 at Prestbury, he could easily be about 70 by 1841. Interesting about the Sam Williamson with them. SArah Williamson would have been his 4x grand mother, possibly, or it may be coincidence of course.
-
Sorry Beth, typo. Hester aged 72 is on the 1851 census.
She can't be the daughter of Thomas as she is a widow and therefore married into the Almonds.
-
Hi
Just noticed that you are doing a one name study
Arthur Edward Allmand born about 1877 from Marchweil/Ruabon area was my great grand father.
I believe that he was the son of John Allman. He married Florence Lavinia Jones and they moved to the Manchester area.
Heather
-
Hi Heather,
We communicated via e-mail but I never received a reply to my last e-mail. (Copied below)
Hi Heather,
It’s been a while since we ‘talked’; so I thought I’d check up if there’s anything new from your research?
I finally got around to visiting the gravestones in Marchwiel and recorded details from there - they're quite worn of course.
I don’t know if you have any/all of the following:
John and Susannah
At Marchwiel I also found John's grave (1882) which includes his daughter Mary (1858), his GD Sarah Ann Davies (1868) - the rest is illegible.
John’s daughter Charlotte married Edward Davies in 1864 and is a Widow by the 1871 census. I can’t trace her after that. Do you have anything on her?
John and Susan’s daughter Jane marries William Roberts in 1852 but I haven’t been able to trace them after (possible in Liverpool). Do you have anything on her?
John and Catherine
I think Catherine Jane Davies had a sister MARTHA GRACE DAVIES who married a William Ross in Bury.
John and Catherine’s daughter Martha also married in Bury - John Stirzaker.
Son George William died in Australia.
Florence Ann marries Samuel Hamilton.
Apologies if you already have this.
Tony
-
Apologies for not getting back to you.
Somewhere, I do have details of the graves in St Marcella's Church yard.
I haven't done any more research on this side of my family for a while.
Heather
-
No problem.
You didn't mention the other graves last time we communicated.
Tony
-
Hi there I am new onto this site an was very interested in the names Allman,Almond, Hallmond or similar.
I am the great grand daughter of a Hallmond in NZ.
We have no idea where my great grand father came from, or even if his surname was actually Hallmond, he came into the West Coast of NZ at a place called Jacksons Bay, the ship he was on founded an only 2 children were saved from it, one being my Great grand father, he was supposed to have been brought here with a lady called Mrs Bramford from Australia, it could be he had a broard accent an the name wasnt actually Hallmond however I have done some checks an found the name Hallmond in England. I would be very interested if anyone has contact with someone with this name.
-
Hello Sunny,
There are thousands of Allmans etc here in the UK. I started to research them locally as my GM was an Hallmand. The name mutates regularly as most of them were illiterate. Now I record them anywhere and everywhere. There are several lots who emigrated to NZ and Oz; as well as some transported. First of all please provide as much detail on your GGF as you know.
Tony
-
Good morning Antonden Thank you for your speedy reply, I wasn't sure I would hear from anyone :)
My Gt grand father was named Frederick Charles, some times Charles Alfred or Frederick Alfred. I think it depended on things which name he used lol
He supposedly was born,c 1861 at Woods Point, Victoria, Australia.
We don't know when he arrived on the West Coast at Jackson's Bay, he was one of 2 boys saved from a sinkinng vessel as it came into Jacksons Bay. I found a news print in Past Pages where he was trying to contact his sister that he hadn't seen for 10 yrs. later as an adult.I found him on an elect. roll in Hokitika, West Coast in 1890. He married in 1889 at Jackson's Bay to Mary Callery, nee Leeney, a widow who had been married in Lyttleton, Christchurch to John Callery, they had a number of children. Mary was born in Ballymacelligott, County Kerry, Ireland c 1855-1857. she being the daughter of Phillip & Katherine Leeney, they all immigrated to NZ but not together, they lived in Waimate, Otago, NZ. the then Hallmond family moved to the North Island finding work. They moved frequently as was the nrm chasing work in those days, however we are amazed how many times they did move an the distances, given there werent any roads then. they went on to have 8 more children, one being my grand father William Alfred Leonard Hallmond who married my Nanny Alice Le Noel of Hukutere, Northland, NZ One of frederick & Mary's sons was killed in WW1, by this time the Hallmond family were up in Dargaville, Northland. Mary died in 1931 in Dargaville and Frederick died in Auckland 1934.
I hope this is helpful. I have found Hallmonds in Britain, but havent been able to tie them up with Frederick
Regards
Sunny
PS I had the wrong name for the woman Frederick was supposed to have come out to NZ with her name was Mrs Bramston.
-
Hi Sunny,
A tough one. To have any chance of making a link to UK family you would need to know more about your GGF and his parents.
Have you tried/is it possible, to obtain a birth certificate for him?
Similarly have you got his death certificate?
Broad accent - any idea what 'sort'?
What was his sister's name?
Where was he looking for her, NZ or Oz?
Do you know the names of his parents?
What happened to his parents?
Have you searched NZ newspaper reports for the sinking?
Lots of questions.
Tony
-
Morning Tony, thanks for your reply, yes its a hard one alright! We have very little information about great grand father, an actually not at all sure if what he had said was even true! Think he was given to telling porkys now an then :)
We know absolutely nothing about his parents, an that's what makes it so difficult, all we know is that he came here on a ship... no name for that either, with a Mrs Bramston from Victoria Australia, I have searched for the place he was supposed to come from but couldn't find anything there, an for Mrs Bramston which there were in Victoria an if my memory serves me well, I thing Bramston was a minister of government or something similar, but cant find if a Mrs Bramston died in NZ. As to accent well we are just surmising that maybe his accent was broad an his name was actually Almond but was taken to be Hallmond, I have found a lot of Almonds in Australia.
His sisters name, no idea he didnt mention a name in the paper, it was in past pages, so I dont know if that paper was sent to Australia or just NZ, it was a NZ newspaper. My living Aunt never met him so she didnt know if he had an accent or not. Both grand father an great grand fathers are buried in the Waikumete Cemetary in Auckland, I cant get there as I live in the South Island. However I did find on the internet grand fathers grave, bu not great grand fathers. I dont have a deathe certificate for either. No idea what happened to GGF parents either, its all very up there with very little information to go by. My other GGF we have the same problem with he was supposed have been born in Ruone France but cant find a thing on him either. Mind you its not surprising really given NZ was a new country an a lot of the people that came here were either prisoner's or hiding from something lol. Later came immigrants but they to were very poor people.
Yes I have scanned numerous papers for the sinking however if you could see the number that sank coming into the West Coast you would blown away, hundreds of people drowned when boats sank, the West Coast is notorious for sand bars, an often the captains would take the risk an try to get over them when it was to rough, resulting in the boats sinking, there are hundreds of ships that sunk in various places all along the West Coast of both islands. I haven't looked for any recently one gets eye strain reading to many at a time an quite often there were no passenger lists, they would just have a number of how many on board the ships.
So not very helpful at all really Im sorry, but I tend to think this Mrs Bramston might hold the key, I have searched everywhere for her, there was a Mrs Bramston whose husband was a captain of a ship, but couldn't tie anything together with that either. We don't know how old GGF was when he came here so don't have an accurate age for him either.
Your not wrong my GGF poses heaps of questions! :) One day I hope to crack it :)
So sorry cant give you much to go by, not sure what would be written on GGF grave either, as my Nanny & grandfather separated an she was left with 10 kids to raise on her own an work on her farm, so we didn't know a lot about him apart from the fact he was a scoundrel! I found out most of what I know of him through research, he made head lines on occasions! He was never spoken about in the family.
I will keep looking for GGF grave, because I know its in Waikumete, but for some reason I havent been able to locate it!
Sorry I cant give you more answers, an I know it makes it almost impossible to find him, but I live in hope lol
Many thanks Tony I will keep in contact if I find any more an if I can find the grave.
Regards
Sunny
-
Hi,
I did notice yesterday that a Frederick Charles Bramston was born and died around the time of your Freddie's birth. Coincidence?
Incidentally, how do you know her name was Mrs Bramston?
The point about birth and death certificates (at least over here) is that they often contain other information, such as: addresses, parents and occupations on a birth certificate; and the address and who reported the death on a death cert.
If possible I would definitely buy them.
T
-
Hi there Tony, gosh are you up late over there? :)
mm that's interesting! It could well be, I will take a look into it later today an see what I can find
Im not sure if there is a birth certificate for GGF but will check, I would think it may be either in England or Australia. However I cant find him in Australia there are Hallmonds there but they are descendants of some of his children. I will also check to see if there is a death certificate as well, I know my Aunt doesn't have one though an she has done heaps on the family so I'm thinking it may not be available.
Yes the certificates here do have extra information on them as well, I have just received a print out of my x3 great grand parents marriage certificate an discovered she was a chieftainess (She was full blood Maori) I knew her father was a great Ariki (chief) but hadn't realized she took over when he died, that was when I realized she was an only child as if there was a male he would have taken the title of Ariki. So yes your right some interesting info on the papers especially from the old days, not quite as much now though. I will try an get a death cert for GGF may be hard to obtain given the lack of info we have but I will give it a shot!
Hey thanks for your help Tony, very much appreciated
Sunny
-
Ok post anything here.
-
Hi again Sunny,
I wonder if the story about the shipwreck is a false one.
I contacted NZ History people and their reply is as follows:
'A Jackson's Bay shipwreck didn't ring any bells, but I have searched the 1990 and 2007 editions of the classic New Zealand Shipwrecks, first published in 1936. The book has to be read with some caution, since it covers (for the main part) only total wrecks - i.e. in which the ship was lost, and accumulated some minor infelicities over its many editions. However, despite it having place entries for long defunct ports, there's none for JB. A search of the left-over West Coast South Island ports failed to produce any reference to anything relevant.
It's possible that a detailed search of the West Coast newspapers on the National Library's Papers Past (http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz )
may uncover some strandings or minor wrecks, but I don't think that many lives were lost at JB.'
-
Tony sorry haven't been back for a few days. I have just received the great grand parents marriage certificate. It says Frederick was born Woods Point, Victoria Australia. Also on it has his Mother as Louisa, Cannot read the maiden name unfortunately. Did not have a christian name for his father just - Hallmond.
I tend to agree with you re the sinking ship, I could not find any sunk ship in Jacksons Bay either. Mrs Bramston was the lady Frederick mentioned in the letter in the newspaper, as the lady who adopted him an brought him to NZ. He said he was looking for his sister he had not seen for 10 yrs, but there was no name . Of interest he & great gran named one of their daughters Louise! Still to get death certificate an check the past pages again. Will keep you posted :)
-
OK look forward to any more info.
-
Can you attach, post or send a copy of the wedding cert. In case Louisa's maiden name looks like anything I have in my spreadsheet.
Tony