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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mhearn on Friday 30 January 15 14:10 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I hope i am posting in the correct place.
I am looking for information for Edward Manley born Dec 6th 1805.
I would order a birth certificate but I can't find a record, but what I have found is a baptism record.
I have attached the record.
The names of his parents has been transcribed as Hannah Manley and Thomas Wheeler. Looking at members trees they have all added this information but the trail ends there.
My question is this... if you place your finger over what looks like a 'W' for wheeler I think it actually looks like Manley (which would make more sense) Please see attached. (front cover says Smalley!)
I then found another record for Edward Manley baptism - mother Hannah Manley, father Edward Manley borrn 6th NOV 1805 - baptism Sep 1809
So now I'm confused... the majority seem to record Thomas Wheeler but the Edward Manley makes more sense - seeing as this name gets passed down the generations.
There are Micro Fiche numbers and LMA references but I'm not sure if these will say the same information.
So I would welcome any thoughts on this and how I could clarify the situation.
Many thanks in advance
Michelle
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Civil Registration, and the advent of Birth, Marriage & Death Certificates only started on 1st July 1837.
So, you will not find a birth certificate for your chap?
Also, I'm not sure you are allowed to post pages from a commercial website here?
Doesn't that break their Terms & Conditions, and has copyright implications?
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The topic has been moved to London & Middlesex but as KGarrad points out full page postings of copyrighted images are not allowed.
Those with the correct subscriptions will know where to look for these documents and will most probably come back soon with their intepretations.
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Those with the correct subscriptions will know where to look for these documents and will most probably come back soon with their intepretations.
I have done just that :)
The names of his parents has been transcribed as Hannah Manley and Thomas Wheeler. Looking at members trees they have all added this information but the trail ends there.
My question is this... if you place your finger over what looks like a 'W' for wheeler I think it actually looks like Manley (which would make more sense)
I read that entry as Edward B[ase] B[orn] S[on] of Hannah Marley Manley & Thomas Wheeler
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Sorry.!.i didn't realise that :o
Any help greatly appreciated. Thank you for the birth certificate info.!! I can see a microfilm reference - I have looked at the LMA website but can't work out what to do. I think I need to look up a step by step guide.! :-\
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The Ancestry image is from the bishop's transcripts, held at LMA. The original parish registers are at Westminster Archives. I would interpret the entry in the parish register as ...
Dec. 26th Edward, B(ase) B(orn) Son of Hannah Manley & Thomas Wheeler (born) 6 Nov.
(definitely Manley, rather than Marley)
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Thank you bookbox.!
When you say you read the parish register what do you mean? (I am a member of ancestry & trying to find my way round it) I'm sorry if I sound thick.! I looked up Westminster archives but it doesn't make any sense to me at all. Novice certainly applies to me.! If there is somewhere to read up how to do this then please do direct me as I don't want to waste anyone's time x
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You're not wasting anyone's time. :)
The entry in the parish register can be seen on Find My Past, another pay/subscription site. Find My Past is in the process of digitising the records held at Westminster Archives.
Ancestry's contract is with LMA, which hold the bishop's transcripts (copies of the register) for this parish.
As mentioned above, there is no formal birth record. At this date we have to make do with baptism records such as these -- if we can find them. :)
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(definitely Manley, rather than Marley)
I really don't know why I put Marley, it's quite clearly Manley. Thank you for putting me right ;D
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JenB, I meant 'definitely Manley in the PR', which is clearer. The BT could easily be Marley, as you said. :)
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Can I see the parish register online at all?
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JenB, I meant 'deninitely
That's a fascinating new word you've just invented ;D
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London is complicated!
The City of London, and some of those bits of London that used to be in Middlesex, Surrey, Kent and Essex have their parish records digitised, and held, at the London Metropolitan Archives.
Mostly, these are on Ancestry.
The City of Westminster has it's own archives! ::) And it's parish registers are on FindMyPast.
Bishop's Transcripts belong to the relevant diocese - and these can be found at LMA, and Ancestry.
Easy, huh?!?! ;D
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JenB, I meant 'deninitely
That's a fascinating new word you've just invented ;D
I spotted it and corrected it just before you posted. ;)
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Can I see the parish register online at all?
Yes, but the only place you can see it is FindMyPast, which is a pay/subscription site, so you'll need to purchase a few credits.
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/
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I'm so glad you glad you said it's complicated because I was starting to think I'm rubbish.! I thought ancestry, find my past etc were all the same ... I have a steep learning curve ahead .!
Thank you 👍
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I think I might have followed the crowd and been looking at the wrong record.
Looking closer at the census records the place of birth states - Bermondsey (1851) & Southwark (1861). There is a baptism record (17/09/1809) for Edward Manley born 06/11/1805 in Bermondsey, Southwark to Hannah & Edward Manley.
Thanks for the direction to find my past..!!! 😊
Just got to get my head round the microfilm stuff
Thanks all...!!! 😊☺️
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(St James Westminster, 1805)
Dec. 26th Edward, B(ase) B(orn) Son of Hannah Manley & Thomas Wheeler (born) 6 Nov.
There is a baptism record (17/09/1809) for Edward Manley born 06/11/1805 in Bermondsey, Southwark to Hannah & Edward Manley.
It is curious that the Edward MANLEY baptised in Bermondsey in 1809 was born on the same day in 1805 as the base-born Edward MANLEY baptised at St James Westminster in 1805. Also that the mother of both was named Hannah.
Is there any sign of the Westminster one in any other records, or could they be the same person?
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Yes it's very curious. Edward Manley Bermondsey DOB 6/11/1805 and the Edward Manley in Westminster was born 06/12/1806 (I'm currently out so can't look at all the details) the Bermondsey one is a better fit but it seems like a massive coincidence that the birth dates are similar and both mothers are called Hannah Manley.
Does anyone have any ideas?
Baptisms are 3 years apart.
Very strange.!
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I believe the date of birth is the same in both baptism entries -- 6 November 1805. Have another look later?
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Hi Bookbox,
Yes you're absolutely correct.
Well that just throws it all up in the air again.
First baptism in 1805 in the same month of birth and the second 4 years later.
Thanks again for your reply
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The Ancestry image is from the bishop's transcripts, held at LMA. The original parish registers are at Westminster Archives. I would interpret the entry in the parish register as ...
Dec. 26th Edward, B(ase) B(orn) Son of Hannah Manley & Thomas Wheeler (born) 6 Nov.
(definitely Manley, rather than Marley)
Would you know if the Parish Registers are copied originally from the bishops transcripts? I'm still not convinced it says Wheeler on the Bishops Transcript. I don't think I'm going to get to the bottom of this one.
Thank you again :)
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Just googled what base born means - well thats answered my question.!
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Would you know if the Parish Registers are copied originally from the bishops transcripts?
The other way round - the Bishops transcripts were copied from the PR's
Bishops Transcripts are contemporary copies of the baptism, marriage and burial entries in the parish registers - that is, copies made in the parish in the same year as the original parish register entries.
Under an Order made in 1598 it was ruled that within one month of Easter each year, the churchwardens were to send to the Diocesan Registry (that is, to the Bishop of the Diocese) a copy of all the register entries for the preceding year.
http://www.devon.gov.uk/bishops_transcripts.htm
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How interesting - Thank you JenB