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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Anglesey => Topic started by: daisy59 on Saturday 31 January 15 18:41 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I,m researching my husbands family on his mothers side who were all born and lived in menai. His grandma leaving there in her teens to marry in Colechester leaving her parents and siblings. My husband remembers visiting her sisters with his mum when he was young but knows nothing really of his great grandad and ancesters who were all Anglesey born and bred. The aunts who he used to visit are all passed now as is his mother who apparently knew little other than her mothers sisters. The family grave is on church island which we have visited a few times but is very overgrown and has just a small squarish stone just visable. We understand that this stone was put there in about 1964 when my husbands gran passed away and two of her sons travelled to Anglesey with the stone and her ashes to place it on a grave that was already there. The part of the stone that was visable has inscribed on one side Jane Ellen ( my husbands nan ) on another side Henry ( her father ) I only discovered he was her father through research , the name Elizabeth on another side ( her mother ) again through research and another name which we could not make out. We did want to have a good dig around as we are sure there would be another larger slab or something underneath but as I say the ground is solid and I don't think the vicar ect would think to good of us if we started digging about :) . So I have Henry Jones boatman born about 1865 in menai bridge lived at port Llandegfan also later in Well st menai. I believe he married Elizabeth Williams in about 1895 at bangor. She was from Bethesda. Their children were
William H born 1897 Llandegfan port died falling from the bridge so family say in about the 1930's working on it I think.
Jane Ellen born 1899 Llandegfan port ( my husbands nan )
Lizzie born 1900 passed away 1979 married to Renig Merion Jones lived ryhdd menai
Richard m born 1901 Llandegfan port
kittie born 1902 Llandegfan port
Hugh born 1905 llandegfan port
Peggy born 1911ish well street menai bridge. The family of henry Jones were still at well street in 1917 other than that we do not know when Henry died, we think his parents were Hugh jones and Jane jones he being a mariner too. They lived in Bryn pilot during the 1880's/90's we think. Any information at all we would be very gratefull ,it is difficult for us to get back to menai ill health and distance but we will eventually . Sorry for a bit of a drawn out post ???
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There are baptisms for William Henry 1897 and Jane Ellen 14 Aug 1898 residence Bronhaul father Henry a sailor mother Elizabeth
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Hello and thanks that will be them I've been on ancestry and north wales bmd for the births would you know where they were baptised please. I could not find any baptisms where I was looking thanks again .
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they were baptised at Llandegfan there could be more but I only looked at those two
strange Henry was a general labourer on 1901 census.but a sailor on the 2 baptisms
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Henry's death registration has:
Henry Jones age 69 died 4 Oct 1934 at 14 Well St. Menai Bridge, Llandysilio. He was described as a Yachtsman. The informant was Hugh Thomas Jones, son.
He is living at Beudy, Menai Bridge in the 1871 census, aged 6, grandson of the head of the household - Hugh Jones, 68, Boatman b. Menai Bridge and his wife Ellin, 66, b. Llanllyfni, Caernarvonshire.
He was baptized at Llandysilio Parish Church on 16 Oct 1864, the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Jones.
Elizabeth was born 2 Nov 1841 at Llandysilio, the daughter of Hugh Jones and Ellen (maiden name Griffiths). The family are living at 'Barix' Menai Bridge, Llandysilio in the 1851 census.
Hope this helps.
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Hi again, yes I've found that on the census I've looked at on 2 of his daughters marriage certs it also states he was a boatman. Maybe when the weather was rough winter time say he may have done some labouring jobs. If I have the right father for him Hugh Jones he is on the census as being a master mariner. Living so close to the straights that was one of the main occupations I think apart from the quarries on the main land. Thanks for your interest :)
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Dragon-T
Hello and many thanks we had no idea when Henry died, I had been wondering about his parents I came across 1891 census were it says
Hugh Jones age 56 head
Jane Jones age 50 wife
Henry Jones son age 25
David e jones son age 16
Mary daughter age 10 all living at 99 Bryn Pilot port of Llandegfan.
In the 1881 census same address
Jane jones age 40 mariners wife
Henry age 15
David e age 6
Mary age 7mths
I cannot trace Hugh or wife Jane in the earlier census but like you find Henry living with grandparents. Hugh his grandparent is older than the Hugh in the later census so not the same person that's what gets confusing . Thanks for your help much apprieciated.
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Hello again would Henry's and the other baptisims have been at St Tysilios on church island or one of the other churches in that area i.e St Mary's or other ? How do I find out , sorry for appearing dim many thanks.
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Hi daisy59, the baptism of Henry Jones on 16 Oct 1864 is in the Llandysilio parish records and I believe St. Tysilio is the parish church (Genuki http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/AGY/Llandysilio/index.html). FindmyPast have the image of the parish record.
I hope to send more information tomorrow.
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Thankyou so much DragonT there are so many Jones in that area and with the same Christian names too. Your input is greatly apprieciated. It is so often the case that the family who could have given us all the details have only passed on in recent years , hindsight ect ect. :)
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He was baptized at Llandysilio Parish Church on 16 Oct 1864, the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Jones.
Hi Daisy59, Sorry, I forgot to mention one thing about this baptism - Elizabeth Jones' abode was given as Beudy. Based on this, and the other information in my first post, I believe this is the Henry Jones, age 6, living with his grandparents at Beudy, Menai Bridge in 1871.
But I do not know whether this is the same Henry Jones who is living at Bryn pilot, Llandegfan in 1881 and 1891 and who is described as the son of Hugh Jones and Jane.
I've searched Anglesey BMD indexes, census and other data for members of these families looking to see whether there is evidence to link them. But it is difficult - too many Joneses with the same first names, as you say.
Starting with Hugh Jones and wife Ellin at Beudy, Menai Bridge in 1871, they are living at Barracks, Menai Bridge in 1861 and 1851. The household in 1851 consists of:
Hugh Jones 41 Boatman b. Llandysilio
Ellen Jones 41 Wife b. Llanllyfni, Caernarvonshire
Thomas Jones 20 Son, Tailor, b. Llandwrog
Jane Jones 15 Dau. b. Llandysilio
Elizabeth 9 Dau. b. Llandysilio
Hugh 3 Son b. Llandysilio
The births of the younger children were registered:
Hugh Jones son of Hugh, mother Ellin Griffith 1 Nov 1847 - Llandysilio
Elizabeth Jones dau. of Hugh, mother Ellen Griffiths 2 Nov 1841 - Llandysilio
There was also:
Hugh Jones son of Hugh, mother Ellen Griffiths 4 May 1840. His death was registered:
14 Nov 1840 at Llandysilio, age 6 months. Informant Ellen Jones.
Hugh Jones (Llandysilio) married Ellen Griffith (Llandegfan) at Llandegfan Parish Church on 30 Nov 1830. Both signed by mark.
Ellen Jones died 30 Nov 1871, age 66 at Beudy, Llandysilio, wife of boatman Hugh Jones. Informant Elizabeth Jones.
As for the family of Hugh Jones and Jane at Bryn pilot, Llandegfan:
David Evan Jones, son of Hugh and Jane Evans born 7 Nov 1874, Llandegfan
Mary Jones, dau of Hugh and Jane Evans born 24 Aug 1880, Llandegfan
John Jones, son of Hugh and Jane Evans born 10 Mar 1863, Llandegfan
There is no Henry Jones registered as born to them but there is an un-named son:
(boy) Jones, son of Hugh and Jane Evans born 10 Jan 1866, Llandegfan who would be 15 in 1871.
Marriage:
Jane Evans of Bryn Pilot, Llandegfan, dau of John Evans, Labourer married Hugh Jones, mariner of Cefndu Bach, Llandegfan son of Hugh Jones, Labourer on 19 Jul 1861 at Llandegfan Church.
Hugh Jones and Jane are also at Bryn Pilot in 1901 and 1911. Hugh consistently gives his place of birth as Penmynydd, Anglesey. In the 1861 census he is an A B seaman on a vessel called Brian Boru (perhaps) in Holyhead harbour.
Jane Jones died 20 Jan 1908, age 67 at Bryn Pilot, Llandegfan, wife of master mariner Hugh Jones, who was the informant.
Hugh Jones died 6 Sep 1914, age 79 at Llanddaniel-fab, master mariner. Informant D.E. Jones, son.
To sum up I don't think I've got much further, it looks like the Henry Jones with his grandparents in 1871 is not the same Henry Jones who was with his parents in 1881 and 1891 but which is your husband's great-grandfather (if either?) is not clear to me. The marriage certificate Henry Jones/Elizabeth Williams might give us some helpful information, as would the 1871 census for Hugh, Jane and Henry Jones.
I hope I haven't confused the situation,
Regards
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Hi again DragonT I've been going through the census records for 1871 but still cannot find Jane and Hugh together or with Henry. Neither can I find any other record of a Hugh and Jane that would match their age ect. Looking at the 1851 census for Hugh and Ellen I was thinking about their other daughter Jane age 15 born Llandysilio if Henry might have been her son. I shall start looking at that possibility next. Henry married Elizabeth Williams in a civil marriage at Bangor in 1895 which I found on the bmd north wales site. I will get a copy of the certificate. Looking back at some my family's tree I've done they quite often had two or more forenames and would swop and change from one to the other over the years too, all part of the puzzle eh !. many thanks again it all helps. Oh and no you haven't confused things any more :)
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Well have been searching the archives of "The North Wales Chronicle" and found a piece on Henry Jones of 14 well st menai dated 8 may 1908. It says he and his (half brother) William Jones were found on licensed premises during prohibited hours. The pub was the Manchester Arms and his half brother lived at Brook Row bangor. Also a few other articles concerning boat races on the menai mentions a Henry Jones and William Jones amongst others. Back to more searching :)
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This wouldn't be the same Jane Ellen Jones who married Walter Lovell in Colchester in September 1919
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Hi yes it is :)
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Hi yes it is :)
So many Jones from Anglesey , and many Jane Ellen Jones. I thought they may have been part of my family history but I drew a blank. I believe Walter and Jane Ellen Lovell settled in Letchworth and had eight children, so not sure if they are relevant to me. This particular Walter Lovell was born in Silverstone Northampton, not Stepney where my family originated from
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The Walter Lovell in our tree was born in Silverstone he and Jane had 7 children
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The Walter Lovell in our tree was born in Silverstone he and Jane had 7 children
The Walter Lovell in our tree was born in Silverstone he and Jane had 7 children
That's where I drew a blank the Walter Lovell I was looking for was born in Stepney in 1891 and I believed he married Jane Ellen Jones born in 1898 in Anglesey. The trail goes cold after that so I now believe it not to be the same Walter Lovell. did the lovells you are searching for settle in letchworth ? as at that point I stopped searching.
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Yes they did , the Walter Lovell in our tree had parents called Walter and Mary .
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Yes they did , the Walter Lovell in our tree had parents called Walter and Mary .
ah yes that's as far as I got then realised i probably had the wrong one I got records showing they had 7/8 children I think the names were Harold Dorothy mona Barbara plus a few others did you have Marys maiden name ? by any chance.
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Yes it was Brackwell they married in 1891 in Towcester
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Yes it was Brackwell they married in 1891 in Towcester
ah shotgun wedding then judging by the dates . . . .Thanks for your info on this . . It ties up a lot of loose ends . . . . . does appear 2 Walter Lovells were born in 1891. so your husband must be a Lovell then ?
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Hi, there is a Facebook group called Menai Bridge Memories - Cofion y Borth. You could put a request on it.
Sue
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ok thanks I might do that
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ok thanks I might do that
What connection do you have with the family ?
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Finally got a copy of the marriage cert for Henry and Elizabeth married at Bangor Register Office 31st August 1895. Henry age 28 living at 2 Well St and a mariner his father deceased is down as a mariner too and his name was also Henry. Elizabeth Williams was living at Hern Bach Llandegfan aged 22 her father also deceased was William Williams a slate quarryman. From all the pieces I have at the moment they are not the family who lived at Bryn Pilot. I did find a newspaper clip of a 16yr old Henry Jones of Beaudy Menai Bridge who had stolen a hen it was in the welsh newspapers on line I think the year was 1883 not sure.
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Finally got a copy of the marriage cert for Henry and Elizabeth married at Bangor Register Office 31st August 1895. Henry age 28 living at 2 Well St and a mariner his father deceased is down as a mariner too and his name was also Henry. Elizabeth Williams was living at Hern Bach Llandegfan aged 22 her father also deceased was William Williams a slate quarryman. From all the pieces I have at the moment they are not the family who lived at Bryn Pilot. I did find a newspaper clip of a 16yr old Henry Jones of Beaudy Menai Bridge who had stolen a hen it was in the welsh newspapers on line I think the year was 1883 not sure.
So does this mean there is no bloodline back to Hugh Jones ?, and that Henry Jones was not the illegitimate son of Elizabeth ?
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Hi, from all the census records I've traced Hugh was Henry's grandad and Elizabeth Henry's mum. Hugh and wife Ellen were Elizabeths parents. They were all at the same address on census records though it is not the family that lived at Bryn Pilot though Hugh and his grandsons were mostly sailors. Ellen died in 1876 I think it was. I still have a lot of searching to do to make sure I can put the tree to-gether correctly so anyone with information on the family at all is very welcome. Addresses they lived at are Barrix 1850's Beudy 1860's Tan? Y Bont 1880's Bron Haul 1890's and ending up in Well St. All are , or were in Menai Bridge. I cannot find Henry's mum after 1901 census or his siblings .Phew
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P.S Henry's mum was Elizabeth Jones his wife was Elizabeth Williams
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Hi, from all the census records I've traced Hugh was Henry's grandad and Elizabeth Henry's mum. Hugh and wife Ellen were Elizabeths parents. They were all at the same address on census records though it is not the family that lived at Bryn Pilot though Hugh and his grandsons were mostly sailors. Ellen died in 1876 I think it was. I still have a lot of searching to do to make sure I can put the tree to-gether correctly so anyone with information on the family at all is very welcome. Addresses they lived at are Barrix 1850's Beudy 1860's Tan? Y Bont 1880's Bron Haul 1890's and ending up in Well St. All are , or were in Menai Bridge. I cannot find Henry's mum after 1901 census or his siblings .Phew
Would that be 2 or 14 Well Street - Not sure if No 2. exists from what can be seen on Google Earth seems it starts at No. 4 - 14 looks like a mid terrace
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Part of Well St was demolished no.2 was standing in 1895 14 is still there
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Is it Henry's mother,Elizabeth,at Rock Terrace in 1891(ref RG12/4665/13/20)?
If so,she dies in 1892,aged 50.
If Henry was her illegitimate son,did he simply give his own name and profession as his father's at marriage to avoid social stigma or did Elizabeth subsequently and coincidentally marry a Henry Jones?
Have you found a marriage for her,as she is quoted as married in 1881 at Tan y Bont and a widow at Rock Terrace in 1891(if it is her).
Regards
Roger
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Hello yes it is Elizabeth that lived at Rock Terrace. according to the census Elizabeth had a son William who was 2yrs older than Henry, a sister Catherine G 3yrs younger than Henry, Hugh 7yrs younger Thomas J 10yrs younger ( he is down as a witness on Henry's marriage cert along with a Mary E Francis ( looks like Francis ) and younger brother Morris and another sister Ellen these are on the 1881 census living at Tan Y Bont. So working on his youngest sibling being born around 1879 his father must have died after this date I have tried to trace the births or baptisms for these siblings and have found a few of the births registered ( civil registrations )with mother named Jones but have not been able to trace the baptisms that would give their fathers name. Thanks for your interest :)
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If so,she dies in 1892,aged 50.
If Henry was her illegitimate son,did he simply give his own name and profession as his father's at marriage to avoid social stigma or did Elizabeth subsequently and coincidentally marry a Henry Jones?
Have you found a marriage for her,as she is quoted as married in 1881 at Tan y Bont and a widow at Rock Terrace in 1891(if it is her).
Elizabeth's death registration (21 Dec 1892 at Rock Terrace, Menai Bridge) describes her as the widow of Hugh Jones, labourer. The informant was Henry Jones, son. As you have discovered Henry Jones described himself as the son of Henry Jones, mariner, when he married Elizabeth Williams, so not the son of Hugh Jones.
I can find the civil birth registrations for two of Elizabeth's children - in each case the name of the father is absent - which implies the children are illegitimate:
Ellen Jones, dau. of Elizabeth Jones b. 27 Nov 1879, Llandysilio
Morris Jones, son of Elizabeth Jones b. 20 Apr 1877, Llandysilio
We also know that, according to his baptism, Henry is the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Jones and that William Jones is referred to as Henry's half-brother in the local paper, so different fathers if Elizabeth is mother of both.
Taken all together it seems likely that Elizabeth's children had a number of fathers - at least two - and perhaps she was never married and subsequently widowed?
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Sorry, my previous post now looks wrong(!) as I think I have found Elizabeth Jones, husband Hugh Jones and children William, Catherine and Hugh in the 1871 census - living in Chapel Street, Llanddeiniolen, Caernarvonshire (RG10, 5717, 18,9).
Hugh Jones, labourer, 29, b. Llanfaethlu, Anglesey
Elizabeth Jones, wife, 29, b. Menai Bridge
William Jones, son, 8, b. Menai Bridge
Catherine Jones, dau. 4, b Carnarvon
Hugh Jones, son, 5 mo., b. Menai Bridge
Hugh's birth registration has b. 20 Nov 1870 Llandysilio, the son of Hugh Jones and Elizabeth Jones.
Curious that Henry was baptised 1864 as the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Jones.
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A Henry Jones was given as the son of an Elizabeth Jones of Beudy in 1864.The Henry on the marriage certificate gives his father as Henry,not Hugh.This could be born out in the first two children's names-William Henry and Jane Ellen,presumably reflecting each of the couples parents.Perhaps if we found Elizabeth William's mother's name it would give a pairing for Henry's parents.
Regards
Roger
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I've been trying to investigate the addresses given on the 1895 marriage certificate.
It seems likely to me that the address for Elizabeth Williams is Wernbach,Llandegfan.In 1891 this property is occupied by David and Jane Williams,with David having been head of household at that address for several censuses.However,Jane looks like his third wife(at least),and probably married between 1881 and 1891.Interestingly Jane is given as born Bethesda,1848-a reasonable age and correct location to be Elizabeth's mother.Perhaps Jane married David after William died?(There is a civil marriage of David Williams to Jane Willams,Bangor 1887,but this could be pure coincidence).
Also in 1891,2 Well Street(no.2 handwritten on original ref RG12/4665/14/22)is occupied by a married Jane Jones,born 1840 Bangor.She has a son Born Menai Bridge,but I can't make anything further useful of this data to date.
Regards
Roger
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Hello again and thanks for all your interest . Firstly on Henry's marriage cert it gives his age as 28 which would have his birth year as 1866-67 . According to the 1851 census his mother has a sister Jane who is 7yrs older than her, a brother Thomas age 20 he was a taylor, and a younger brother Hugh who was 6yrs old . This was when they lived at 19 Barix Menai Bridge. I have looked at a couple of different possibilities for Henry's wife Elizabeth Williams born Bethesda it is possible she had a sister called Jane and brother called Hugh but again cannot be certain I have the right ones yet lots of Williams too and same forenames. Thanks to everyones help here much apprieciated .
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P.S I have come across a marriage in 1868 at Bangor between a Henry Jones and Elizabeth Jones but no other details other than it was the September qtr.
Regards Yvonne
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I have managed to look at the 1939 register for Well St and I believe I have found Henry Jones widow Elizabeth ( nee Williams ) living at 2 Well St with one of their sons Richard and a Roderick Jones b. 1913 ( unknown to family at this time ) Middle name of Elizabeth was Ellen and it gives her date of birth as 2nd Sept. 1877. her son Richard was born in 1900 and we know he did not marry. From a previous post here I learnt that Henry died at 14 Well St, in the register it gives a David John Jones b. 30th Sept 1873 occupation butcher and his wife Winifred Ann b. 4th April 1874. Robert Henry jones b. 5th july 1912 motor driver , Catherine Williams married b. 15th July 1897 and a Alfred James Williams b. 1931 all living at 14. Also in the register at Well St a house called Tylywyn which appears to have Henry's brother Thomas and his family living there. The date of birth for him would match the one I have. It gives his wifes name as Mary Ellen b. 3rd June 1873. Her name ties in with the name of the other witness on Henry and Elizabeths wedding certificate Thomas being the other. Her maiden name looks to be Francis. Again at 12 Well St their is a William Jones b.29 April 1869 ( could this be Henry's half brother ? his year of birth would match with the info I have :-\ his wife was Mary Ann b. 4 Dec 1871. Or am I just being hopefull that the family more or less lived in the same street ? ??? Any imput much apprieciated thanks
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I think you may be being hopeful after such a time lapse,particularly with a name like Jones.The Roderick Jones you refer to,for instance,is probably the one registered in Bangor district 1913,having a mother's maiden name of Jones(FreeBMD),and,presumably,therefore,not "your" family.
Regards
Roger
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I have managed to look at the 1939 register for Well St and I believe I have found Henry Jones widow Elizabeth ( nee Williams ) living at 2 Well St with one of their sons Richard and a Roderick Jones b. 1913 ( unknown to family at this time ) Middle name of Elizabeth was Ellen and it gives her date of birth as 2nd Sept. 1877. her son Richard was born in 1900 and we know he did not marry. From a previous post here I learnt that Henry died at 14 Well St, in the register it gives a David John Jones b. 30th Sept 1873 occupation butcher and his wife Winifred Ann b. 4th April 1874. Robert Henry jones b. 5th july 1912 motor driver , Catherine Williams married b. 15th July 1897 and a Alfred James Williams b. 1931 all living at 14. Also in the register at Well St a house called Tylywyn which appears to have Henry's brother Thomas and his family living there. The date of birth for him would match the one I have. It gives his wifes name as Mary Ellen b. 3rd June 1873. Her name ties in with the name of the other witness on Henry and Elizabeths wedding certificate Thomas being the other. Her maiden name looks to be Francis. Again at 12 Well St their is a William Jones b.29 April 1869 ( could this be Henry's half brother ? his year of birth would match with the info I have :-\ his wife was Mary Ann b. 4 Dec 1871. Or am I just being hopefull that the family more or less lived in the same street ? ??? Any imput much apprieciated thanks
So there is some confusion as to whether Henry died at 2 or 14 well Street, is there a question as to whether it is the same Jones Family at both 2 and 14 ?
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Henry's death was registered at no. 14 they had lived there at least since 1911 census. Not sure about the Elizabeth at no. 2 in the 1939 register have to look at that in more detail. It was Henry's son Hugh that was with him when he died which does make me wonder if Elizabeth was still alive then or not. :-\
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Henry's death was registered at no. 14 they had lived there at least since 1911 census. Not sure about the Elizabeth at no. 2 in the 1939 register have to look at that in more detail. It was Henry's son Hugh that was with him when he died which does make me wonder if Elizabeth was still alive then or not. :-\
By the looks of it there could be a possibility that it is either an extended family of the Jones originally at No2 or indeed a completely different family
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Henry's death was registered at no. 14 they had lived there at least since 1911 census.... It was Henry's son Hugh that was with him when he died which does make me wonder if Elizabeth was still alive then or not. :-\
I have looked for death registrations, surname Jones, with the address given as Well Street, Llandysilio. In most cases the house number is not given. These are taken from a file of transcribed death registrations for Anglesey.
Among them is:
Elizabeth Jones, 35, died 8 May, 1911 at Well Street, Menai Bridge, Llandysilio. She was the wife of Henry Jones, mariner. The informant was Henry Jones, widower.
Edith Annie Jones, 4 (but should be 4 months) died 23 July, 1904 at Well Street, Menai Bridge, Llandysilio, dau. of mariner Henry Jones. Informant Henry Jones, father.
(Edith Annie's birth registration has b. 6 Mar 1904, Llandysilio, dau. of Henry Jones & Eliza Williams.)
Ellen Jones, 42, died 13 Sep 1925 at No. 2 Well Street, Menai Bridge, Llandysilio, domestic cook, spinster. Informant M E Jones, sister in law.
I think there are others which may also interest you but unfortunately I am very pressed for time these days.
By the way have you considered buying a copy of the book of Memorial Inscriptions for St. Tysilio churchyard produced by Gwynedd FHS? It is more expensive than many of their books, presumably because of the number of graves, but may have more details about the grave mentioned in your original post.
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Thankyou so much I do believe you have Henry's family there. I was just off to bed so will get back to you later I will invest in that book . The Ellen spinster mentioned is one of Henry's sisters . more tomorrow and again thanks so much.
yvonne
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Hi. I’m very new to family research - just a few weeks in. I was delighted to stumble on this thread today because I think I can contribute, and I’ve certainly got a heap of great leads from the conversation about Henry Jones. Here’s what I have:
I am the great granddaughter of Thomas John Jones, born 3/3/1874 to Elizabeth Jones and ‘Henry Jones, deceased, Mariner’. He’s the younger brother of the Henry Jones you’re focusing on. He was the fifth child of Elizabeth, followed by Ellen and then Morris. Like you, I’ve been wondering about the mysterious Henry Jones senior, invisible father of so many. Like younger Henry, Thomas John names Henry Jones, Mariner, as his father on his marriage certificate, and on his naval service record, both of which I have.
I have also found Elizabeth (their mother) in each census record from 1851 to 1881, including the 1871 one where she’s listed as the wife of Hugh, and has three of her four children with her, the missing one being Henry, who, as you’ve discovered, is with his grandparents Hugh and Ellen. Did you notice on the original record that the three children are listed as ‘relatives’, which is then crossed through and replaced by ‘son’ and ‘daughter’? The mystery deepens.
I have considered a few possibilities, involving a sailor husband gone missing and a brief liaison with Hugh, but the information in this conversation which shows that the children, including the youngest two, seem to be registered as illegitimate, leaves me wondering again. And there is the fact that both Henry junior and my Great Grandpa Thomas John claim Henry as their dad. In fact, on Thomas John’s naval record, he’s recorded as ‘Henry M’. Another mystery. Could Henry senior have been a fictitious father to keep the children happy?
I’m about to order Thomas John’s birth certificate, and I still wonder about the possibility of a later marriage for Elizabeth - I’ve found two likely ones - Carnarvon Mar 1866 - 11b 673, and
Carnarvon Dec 1874 - 11b 813. However I’m now wondering why the last two children, Morris and Ellen, appear as illegitimate.
On a related note, Thomas John married Martha Roberts at Colwyn Bay in 1897, was still there for the birth of their first child, and then moved to Holyhead. He’s at 22 Porth y Fellin Rd in 1901, 3 Armenia Terrace in 1911 and 1 Fairview on the 1939 Register. He was at that address until at least 1948 and beyond. So he’s not the Thomas living at Tylywyn in Well St during that time.
I hope all this is of some use. I’m very glad to have found this conversation.
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Hello
So pleased you came across all this, now I have some more information to go on thank you. It is very confusing at times with such a name as Jones. It is easy to be following a line with all the same Christian names and similar dates of birth ect only to find months later that it is the wrong family. It is really good to come across someone who is actually a distant relative ! I wonder if the Thomas I believed to be Henry's brother living at Tylywyn would have been a cousin or neighbour. The witnesses on Henry and Elizabeth marriage certificate 1895 are Thomas J Jones and Mary E? looks like Francis but cannot be sure. I'm sure he would have been your Grt grandad. Please let us know what you find from the birth certificate .
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Hello again, have you any news on the birth certificate ?
Also if anyone reads this I have the burial record for Henry Jones on Find My Past. It states his burial as 1934 which we knew was when he died, and at Llandysillio his address Well St . There is an x marked on the record and the curate who wrote out the record has marked and underlined what looks like it says x buried in ancient portion x if anyone can look at the record for me and give any idea's as to what it says I would be very grateful. The record is under Anglesey Burials. Llandysillio page no. 27 and the number next to his record on list is 210 Thanks.
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Hello. Sorry to take so long to reply. I've been busy moving house and haven't been able to do much else. I waited weeks for Thomas John's birth certificate and when it arrived it was incorrect. I was so disappointed. I'll keep trying when life settles down a little. I decided to try to find information about some of the other siblings to try to shed some light on who the various fathers were, and I found a baptism record for the oldest, William, in 1862, with mother Elizabeth Jones and father John Peters, sailor, of Menai Bridge. It sounds like the right one, so far as names, date and location go. I did find a John Peters in Menai Bridge in the 1851, 61 and 71 censuses, although he's a joiner, not a sailor. He's unmarried until then. So many fathers! I'd love to find out more about this family. I intend to keep trying to obtain Thomas's birth certificate, or baptism details, when life gets a little less hectic.
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Hello again, have you any news on the birth certificate ?
Also if anyone reads this I have the burial record for Henry Jones on Find My Past. It states his burial as 1934 which we knew was when he died, and at Llandysillio his address Well St . There is an x marked on the record and the curate who wrote out the record has marked and underlined what looks like it says x buried in ancient portion x if anyone can look at the record for me and give any idea's as to what it says I would be very grateful. The record is under Anglesey Burials. Llandysillio page no. 27 and the number next to his record on list is 210 Thanks.
Daisy - Did you ever confirm which Hugh Jones you are related to ?, the family in Beudy or Llandegfan ?
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Hello again, have you any news on the birth certificate ?
I'm having no luck whatever locating birth records for Thomas John Jones. I've just received the third incorrect birth certificate, and I'm mystified about why I can't find the right one, given that I have his exact birth details - Menai Bridge on 13.3.1874. I think I've tracked a death registration in 1961 (Vol 8A page 38) and I'm wondering if this is worth acquiring. I'm not sure what information it will give me. I couldn't find a burial record, but I assume he'll have been buried at Holyhead where he lived. I'll keep searching, but I'd love any assistance anyone could give me.
Daisy, have you discovered any more about your Henry?
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Hi all, I am also researching the same family. My great grandfather Morris Jones, was the son of elizabeth jones and brother to william, catherine, hugh, thomas (half brother). He lived in LLysfaen and was the last coxwain on the llandulas lifeboat. One of his sons, Thomas, was my grandad who died in 1977. I am use ancestry.com and someone has done a family tree with lots of info if you follow: Morris Jones b 1876/77>1911 census>a link appears on the right to show others who are researching this family, it looks like a lady now living in austrailia has done a lot of work. It appears that there a one or two half and illigitmate births which may explain difficulties in getting some info. I have tried to attach a photo of morris with his family in llysfaen
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Hello again, I am trying to contact some of the people trying to get some info regarding this family. I have found an almost complete family tree on one of the geneology websites which has lots of documents relating to hugh/henrys family.
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Regarding henry or hughs death. I have also come to the conclusion that he was killed at sea which may explain the half brother and sister in the family. There are two reasons for this . Firtsly, his son Morris, was my great grandfather , and one of his sons, Thomas who died in 1977 was my grandfather(thomas John but not the one someone else is trying to get birth certificates for ) and I understand he would not let him go to see as he wished because of the dangers involved. Secondly, Morris was a member of the a lifeboat crew, possibly suggesting a considerable motivation to save those in danger at sea