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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: br1937 on Wednesday 04 February 15 17:21 GMT (UK)
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Hi Folks,
Trying to find out more about the above individual and his family.
He was married to a Rita Evelyn Cramer - her yr of death unknown - but for sure after 1970.
His burial record leaves the following clues:
He died in Douglas Point Ontario - but was buried in the Brady family plot in Montreal at the Notre-Dame-Des-Neiges Cemetery. His wife's mother is Mary (Molley) Cramer - nee Brady.
In addition to the mystery of how he came to be in Douglas Point Ontario - is the fact - that his parish on the burial notice is listed as - St. Francis of the Birds, St. Sauveur, QC.
Any assistance appreciated.
Mike
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Hi Mike:
Not sure if this is your man but there is a Carl Jacob Maier in the 1925 University of Toronto yearbook:
https://archive.org/stream/torontonensis25univ#page/34/mode/2up
He is on page 35 - it doesn't say a lot but there is a photo.
sami
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Hi Mike,
Would you have a date of birth/birth year to help us locate Carl. There are border crossings (12 June 1935) for someone of that name born 23 March 1902 Hamilton Ontario (father Jacob) but the wife is Dorothy Edna and father-in-law George Wentworth/Westover which doesn't tally with some of your info. Any further info you can give would help the search.
Sandra
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Not this one either ??? A FIND A GRAVE entry for a Carl Jacob Maier died 23 September 1970 -
Burial: Mount Royal Cemetery Montreal Montreal Region Quebec.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=108261914&ref=acom
Sandra
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1925 University of Toronto - amazing - and it is a possibility - he was born around 1902
Burial record from Notre-Dame-Des-Neiges Cemetery is guaranteed as I was sent details from the cemetery for all the deceased (relatives) in the plot.
His burial record shows age at time of death (Sept 23, 1970) to be 68 years old (assuming accurate)
Spouse Rita Evelyn Maier - nee Cramer - present at the burial.
Mike
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fyi
In googling Douglas Point, Ontario - as I had no previous knowledge of this city
Main info relates to the Douglas Point Nuclear Generating Station
Canada's first full scale nuclear power plant
Mike
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Rita Maier - nee Cramer - was quite a bit younger than her husband Carl.
Per 1921 Census of Canada info for Cramer family in Montreal (St. Antoine Ward)
Rita E. Cramer was 2 years old
Thus birth year around 1919 - making her about 17 years younger than Carl
Mike
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I don't know how Sandra was able to read those border crossings but there's a NY arrival (May 1932) for what looks like the same person. He's been in Calcutta and is going home to 128 London St N.,Hamilton,Ontario.
His occupation is accountant which fits I think,with that of Rita's husband on the Canadian Voters List. (comptable???)
Maureen
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In fact per the burial notice, the name is listed followed by the occupation
ie. Carl Jacob Maier, "comptable"
Per google translate - yes - accountant
** burial notice is written in French
Mike
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Based on Maureen's note about Canada's Voter List - I decided to give that type of search a try on Ancestry.....with some pretty good success....it would seem.
Lots of hits for Carl Maier - one in particular looked interesting - 1968 for an accountant (comptable). It was for riding in Labelle, QC. Per the actual document there is a Carl Maier and a Mrs. Rita Maier...consistent.
It got better...location (residence) is actually Piedmont, QC. Per google only minutes from St. Sauveur, the location (per burial record) of Carl Maier's parish!!
Mike
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Rita Maier (alone) appears Labelle, Québec in 1972 - not sure if its the same but the US directory entries usually refer to the year before - perhaps Canada might do the same ???
Carl states on the 12 September 1932 border crossing that he had been in the USA - 1926 - 1929 Pittsburgh PA. (Which is interesting since Dorothy was born Pennsylvania)
On a Border crossing 21 Dec 1935 - Dorothy Edna Maier - born 1906 Scalp Level PA
Father given on this record as Mr Geo F Weston, Westover. PA. Husband Carl at the St Clare Road Montreal address.
New York Passenger List - 7 June 1932 - Carl Jacob Maier - Single. Genoa, Italy to New York on the Conte Biancamano.
California Passenger and Crew List - Carl J Maier born 1902 Hamilton. Aged 33 years. Married. Occupation:- Accountant. Had been in the USA in 1932. Yokohama, Japan to Montreal via San Francisco (in transit - staying 2 weeks) on the Chichibu Maru arriving 21 April 1935. Also travelling Dorothy Maier born Pennsylvania and aged 29 years. US Citizen.
Last residence Calcutta. India.
Firm in Calcutta was :- Jeewaulal (1929) Lts. PO Box 2237 - Calcutta India. Going to (Firm) Aluminium Ltd., 1000 Dominion Square Bldg. Montreal. Canada.
Sandra
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On a Massachusetts Passenger List Carl Maier - aged 34 years - accountant - wife Dorothy 942 St Clare Rd, Montreal. Quebec. Demerara, Guyana to Boston, Massachusetts. Arriving 28 September 1936 on the Lady Hawkins. Last Residence: British Guiana.
Sandra
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This looks like Dorothy with parents 1910 - 1930 - the marriage of Carl Maier and Dorothy looks to be between 1932 - 1935 according to immigration records.
1910 - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MGH5-S1K
1920 - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MX9K-K4H
1930 - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCHW-ZQ1
Notice Dorothy was a teacher on this census.
Sandra
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An article in Altoona Mirror September 21, 1932 says they were married June 30. They were leaving for Calcutta for 3 years. Mr Maier was an "expert accountant" in the service of Aluminium Ltd..
Maureen
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Amazing info...thanks so much.
Obviously for this gentlemen to be the correct person...there would have to be a 2nd marriage.
Feasible. Perhaps Dorothy passed away?
Truth is the only records I have been able find about Rita Cramer (wife) is the (1) burial with her parents Louis Cramer & Mary Cramer (nee Brady). Earlier I had found Canada 1921 Census showing a Cramer family with Head of family - Louis. Wife Mary and 3 children - Mary (7), Mildred (4) and Rita E Cramer (2). In addition household had a Mary J Brady aged 60....Wife Mary's mother.
All later tied into the burial plots info....with Louis, his wife Mary, daughter Agnes and son in law Carl Maier being part of the plot...along with the purchaser Mary J Brady -nee Brennan.
No record of marriage for Carl & Rita, or any births of children, have been found to this point.
Mike
ps -yesterday with all your help the Labelle/Piedmont QC residence seems to be established
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Unfortunately, there are no Central registries/indexes in Canada for BMDs which may hinder your search. Canada has very strict privacy laws and each province imposes its own even further - As a guide BMD Records are only available for births more than a 100 years ago, marriages 85 years ago (They are up to about 1929 at the moment)
Sandra
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Yes BMD's are not too easy to track down.
One positive, based on signature comparison - I think we have found our man.
Border crossing docs signed by Carl Maier (1932/1935) vs my Carl Maier witness signature on the burial record for his mother-in-law Mary (Molly) Cramer - nee Brady in 1957 are very very similar.
Figuring out when/why he entered into a 2nd marriage & equally important, if he had any children with either wife, however is still to be solved.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
Maybe:
http://www.capecodtimes.com/article/20110612/OBITS02/106120349/0/NEWS26?template=printart
I do wonder if there was a divorce involved.
Maureen
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The Quebec, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1967 shows a Maier birth 19 April 1936 which would appear to be a son (same name as father) baptised 23 April 1936.
Address in the margin is 442 St Clare Road. (a Montreal address given on one of the passenger lists)
Although the date varies slightly from US Public records for the same person - the address suggests this must be the first born son.
Sandra
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An obituary from the Clearfield (Pennsylvania) Progress from 26 Mar. 1970 for Mrs. Sara Westover said she is survived by one daughter, Mrs. Dorothy Maier of Canada, and one son, Horace O. Westover of California. This appears to be Horace's burial - http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=westover&GSfn=horace&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=3858206&df=all&
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The plot thickens...Dorothy Maier is still alive as of 1970.
In general - wondering in what way you are able to access the newspaper from 1970.
Thanks for the info
Mike
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That paper is available through www.newspaperarchive.com or Ancestry.
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I have a theory about Douglas Point...never would have thought of it if I hadn't had something very similar happen to me when researching a great-aunt. Her place of death was listed in the cemetery record as Long Point Home, Ontario. Well, how the heck did she get there?? She lived in Montreal. Long Point juts into Lake Erie and there is literally nothing there but sand. Not even a cottage.
So I phoned the cemetery and asked for a scan. It turned out to be Long Point Asylum, in Montreal. Don't know how they made the mistake, maybe a wrong selection from a dropdown menu.
So now, how about Douglas Point. I'm wondering if it might have been "The Douglas" where Carl died. It used to be called the Protestant Hospital for the Insane, and it's still there, now called the Douglas Hospital or the Douglas Institute, located in Verdun. It's a very successful psychiatric hospital long associated with McGill University. Patients didn't need to be Protestant to be treated there, I think it was founded by Protestant churches.
Just a thought, and maybe not a very helpful one. But it might explain some things :)
Cheers,
China
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Good point to consider.
I suppose at this stage - trying to find the obituary from 1970 would be very beneficial.
Does anyone have insight on how to obtain obituaries for Montreal area - perhaps old issues of the Montreal Gazette - perhaps through the library system (on-line hopefully since not local)
Mike
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Well, the Gazette archives for 1 Oct are here, obits on Page 36...but unfortunately the entire month of September is missing and Oct 1 is too late if it was in the paper at all.
http://news.google.ca/newspapers?nid=Fr8DH2VBP9sC&dat=19701001&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
Obits were commonly published for three days. The Gazette is a morning paper, but there was also an afternoon paper, the Montreal Star, which folded in 1979 and archives don't seem to be online.
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Wow...thanks for the link to the Montreal Gazette.
Yes -bad luck that Sept issues not listed.
However, in looking at some other years...was able to find the obituary for Molly Cramer -nee Brady...the mother in law of Carl Maier...ie. mother of his wife Rita Cramer
Very cool and helpful.
Mike
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Additional information now put together,
Rita Maier nee Cramer - wife of Carl Maier,
had a sister name Mary Olive Bisceglia nee Cramer
Olive, (appears she used her middle name), married a Leonard Peter Bisceglia.
In the 1957 death notice of the mother, Molly Cramer, it was noted that Leonard and Olive Bisceglia lived in Rye, N.Y.
I think I will start a new topic specifically about these 2 individuals since living in the U.S.
Mike
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I should have added something else about the Douglas...patients there were not necessarily insane :) The place was used for all sorts of ailments including degenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, which in those days was just called dementia and considered a mental disorder, bipolarism, Parkinson's, depression and even Down Syndrome. All of these used to be stigmatized because they were not understood and not much in the way of treatment was available. Just another thought :)
Cheers,
China
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Hello to all,
I logged into Rootschat just to supply this information on Carl Jacob Maier.
First of all, here is the more or less complete text of his death notice in the Montreal Gazette, September 25, 1970.
"Carl J. Maier. Suddenly at Owen Sound, September 23, 1970. Beloved husband of Rita Cramer and dear stepfather of Lind Horton."
That's about it. Says he was cremated in the Mount Royal Crematorium.
Not sure how Owen Sound fits in.
Here as well is my complete note file on him from various University of Toronto sources.
In 1928/9 reported as being "by last reports, selling Aluminum in Chicago -- not from door to door" (U of T Monthly, pg. 132)
In 1929/30 with Aluminum Limited, 2319 Oliver Building, Pittsburgh, Pa. (U of T Monthly, pg. 36)
IN 1936/7 was with the Aluminum Company in Montreal, "after spending five and a half years in India" with the same company. (U of T Monthly, pg. 168)
Last addresses were 942 St. Clare Road, Mount Royal, and 51 Oakmount Road, Toronto (UC Alumni).
Also from city directories, I found him as Treasurer with an Aluminum Co., Toronto, 1945, on 51 Oakmount. He was not listed there in 1947.
I have been trying to find out his death notice and obituary details for over 20 years, and I am glad to have stumbled over this at the same time as my Gazette research last week.
Someone mentioned in an earlier post an address of 442 St. Clare Road. I am sure this was 942, and matches.
This is all so interestingly close... I think the answer might lie in Owen Sound.
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Well...welcome to Rootschat :)
That's amazing...Owen Sound is right next door to Douglas Point, and the nuclear power plant came on line in 1968. Nobody goes there on vacation. Nobody even goes to Owen Sound on vacation because it has a bad reputation. He must have been there on business.
Or maybe he went because of that bad reputation :P :)
br1937 will be pleased, thank you for this information.
Cheers,
China
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Yes,
Very pleased to see the latest post.
To "charles998"
If you do not mind, I would be interested to know the connection to Carl Jacob Maier.
As noted - you had been trying for over 20 years to find death notice/obituary.
Regards,
Mike (br1937)
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Glad to help you Mike,
[And sorry for the overenthusiastic abundance of detail last time]
Carl Jacob Maier served as an executive member of the University College Literary and Athletic Society at University College, Toronto, while an undergraduate. I have been tracking the former members of this society for some time now. Mr. Maier's details after 1947 have escaped me, and I have been trying to complete my file on him for a long time (i.e. 20 years and counting).
If I can link Maier 1925 B.A. U of T, to Maier died in Owen Sound buried in Montreal, it would be a great help. I think it is very close.
I didn't mention in the earlier post that the U of T Maier was also born in 1902.
- Charles
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One other thing - the Douglas Point reactor was a CANDU designed reactor and thus required a fair amount of Aluminum for its operation. Since Carl was in the aluminum business at some point, could he have been called to Douglas Point in this capacity?
- Charles
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Absolutely no problem with abundance of detail....I am interested in every single fact.
When I started this chat the very first reply was the link to the U of T yearbook and the Carl Maier from Hamilton. Now coming full circle back to the U of T angle seems fitting.
Seeing a picture in the yearbook made the search/find that much more powerful. Subsequent replies focused on Border crossings that pointed to his career and travels all over the world. A very interesting man and certain facts did suggest he was the same Carl Jacob Maier that I know was buried in Montreal in 1970. That Carl was married to the first cousin of my grandfather (Rita Cramer).
The most solid information that I have to suggest they (U of T Carl & Montreal Carl) are one in the same is signatures on documents. A burial record that I obtained from the cemetery for the 1957 burial of Carl Maier's mother in law (Molly Cramer) is witnessed and signed by Carl Maier. The signature is very similar to that of the U of T Carl...as per the Border Crossing documents referred to and documented earlier in the chat.
As well, I also obtained the burial record for Carl Maier from 1970 and it states his age at the time of his death to be 68. Thus also consistent with the Carl Maier from Hamilton (and U of T) as his year of birth was 1902.
One stumbling block is the inability to find evidence of a 2nd marriage to Rita Cramer. The Carl Maier buried in Montreal was definitely married to Rita Cramer but no current information exists to establish when they were married.
However, the business travels and other information establishes that Carl Maier (U of T) was married to a Dorothy Westover in the 30's and thus it would be preferable at some point to better understand the timeline of personal history for Carl Maier (and his wife /wives for that matter).
Mike