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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: Aniseed on Tuesday 17 February 15 17:09 GMT (UK)
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I'm researching an in-law's family tree, and would love to see the details of the marriage between James Humphreys and Jane Heale in Torquay in 1861. Any answers gratefully received.
Many thanks for your help.
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To see the details you will need to order the certificate using the information below.
Sep 1861
Newton Abbot 5b 255
Jane Heale
James Humphreys
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Hi to help out, but can I ask how you have got this far back with certainty:-
31st August 1861 Torquay
James Humphreys 26 occ Carpenter Father Robert occ Carpenter
Jane Heale 21 occ Servant Father Caleb Heale occ Blacksmith
Keyboard86
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Many, many thanks keyboard86 for the lookup, and many thanks to Milliepede for finding the index entry as well. I'm very grateful.
To answer your question, keyboard, I have Henry Humphreys, born in 1878 in Marylebone. I know this because my in-law provided me with the information. I have found his marriage to Jane Martha Bell (also provided by my in-law), which lists Henry Humphreys' father as James Humphreys, a carpenter. I've further traced James Humphreys back through the censuses and found that his parents were Robert and Susan Humphreys. Henry, James and Robert all gave their occupations on the various censuses as carpenter or joiner. I know from the censuses that James was married to a woman called Jane. James Humphreys was born in 1835 in Torquay, and Jane was born in Dilling, Devon. Going on when their children were born, I've guessed when it's likely that they married and since their first two children were born in Torquay, I guessed that that's where they'd be married.
The information you've provided shows that the James Humphreys who married Jane Heale was born in 1835, was a carpenter and his father was Robert, also a carpenter, which tallies which what I already know, so it looks likely that this marriage to Jane Heale is the one I'm looking for. What I hadn't found was Jane Heale's family, so this will allow me to look for Caleb Heale, a blacksmith, which is really, really helpful.
If you can see any flaws in all this, I'd be very grateful to hear them, I don't want to go haring up any blind alleys and an impartial eye can often see things that I miss.
Again, many thanks to both of you for finding the information.
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There's a family tree with Jane Heale born 1840 Iddesleigh Devon with father Caleb 1803 and mother Mary Weeks 1803 Marriage 1827 but not found them on census yet.
2 deaths for Caleb Heale Okehampton district which covers Iddesleigh
Mar 1839
Mar 1855
If we could find the one who died 1855 he will be on 1851 census and we could see his occupation.
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There is a Caleb Heale on the 1851 census b1831 Iddesleigh Solicitors general clerk which is probably the one who died in 1855 interestingly there is a John Heale living next door to him b1825 also in Iddesley
Brothers of Jane?
HO107/1885/155/35
Off Familysearch there is a baptism 23.12.1832 Iddesleigh Caleb parents Caleb and Mary and 7.10.1827 John parents Caleb and Mary
Willow x
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Wondering if Caleb the father blacksmith has died before 1841.
Having said that if Jane was born around 1840 to be 21 when she married then he can't have died too early!
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Very true if it was the Caleb who died 1839 then it might just be possible if Jane was born late 1939/early 1840
Caleb b 1832 is on the 1841 census in Iddesleigh with
Robert Heale 45 wheelwright
Mary Heale 45
Elizabeth 15
John 15
Abel 14
Caleb 10
Did wonder if maybe Mary was living with Calebs brother
looking further this Caleb might not have been the one who died 1855 so I wonder if that is Janes father that died then but cannot find any of them 41/51
Willow x
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To be even more annoying it looks like Robert Heale died 1849 so cant check him on the 1851
Willow x
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Wow, thank you for all this information. I had a look for Caleb snr last night, and came up with what I think is him and his family in Dowland, Devon. He's been mis-transcribed on Ancestry as Caleb Hall, he was born in 1807 and is living with wife Mary, and children William 9, Caleb 8, and Jane 4 months and is a smith. If you look at the image, the surname is Heale and not Hall, in my opinion, anyway. It's Registration District Torrington, piece 251, book 3, folio 6, page 7, if that helps to find it. I'd welcome the opinion of anyone here about whether it is the ones I'm looking for. From the other censuses of Jane in later life as Jane Humphreys, the year of birth does fit. I'd misread her age on one of the censuses and thought she was born in 1846, but it turns out it was 1840 or 1841.
I'm in a bit of a rush at the moment. I'll come back later. Thanks again.
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Ha! Think I have found them in 1851 down as Weaks
East Week? Iddesleigh
Mary Heale 47 b Iddesleigh married smiths wife
William Heale 19 son b Iddesleigh smith (down as age 49)
Jane Heale 10 dau b Iddesleigh
Grace Heale 7 dau b Iddesleigh
HO107/1885/191/13
Caleb isnt with them
BUT! as the one daughter is called Grace there might be the following clue to his parents
Caleb Heale to Grace Heale 2/4/1810 Iddesleigh also 18.4.1827 Iddesleigh Caleb Heale to Mary Weeks (Maybe thats where the mix up came from)
Willow x
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That's a great find Willow! Where did you find the marriage information?
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Familysearch https://familysearch.org/search
Willow x
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Aha, thanks Willow. I find that site has become really frustrating. I haven't used it for a few years now, having got as far back with my own family as I can, and the old site was so much easier to use. Maybe I just haven't learned all the functionality of the new site.
The family tree on Ancestry goes way, way back with the Heale family. Back when I was a beginner I'd have merrily put all of that into my own tree, but now I never feel I can trust other people's research, so it'll have to be an interesting footnote.
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It is annoying on that site - best bet is to do the search and then click on the collections to narrow it down
I know what you mean I only do my own research and dont trust what others put down. I had one person contact me about a line that she said her aunt had traced back to some Earl in London - no I had traced him back to Tipton in the West Mids and he was illigitimate
I never did get a reply to that e-mail
Willow x
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Hi again the death of Caleb in 1855:-
Burial 7th March 1855 Iddesleigh aged 51 abode Middle Wick in the parish of Iddesleigh
Keyboard86
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Hi again, his baptism looks to be:-
CALLEP Heale 19th February 1804 Iddesleigh Father John Mother Elizabeth
Keyboard86
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That makes more sense Keyboard
This might be their marriage
John Heale to Elizabeth Woodman 5.12.1795 Iddesleigh
Willow x
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Hi again, looking at the 1851 for Mary, this could be the baptism of Mary:-
Mary Weeks 11th March 1804 Iddesleigh Father Henery Mother Jane
Keyboard86
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Hi again, 1861 for Mary, whose child is the Jane?
Mary Heale 57 Widow occ Small Farm
Grace 17
Jane 7 b Dolton
Residing at Ash Cottage, Hill, Iddesleigh
Census ref RG09/1466/69/2
Keyboard86
Edit in 1871 this Mary aged 67 b Iddesleigh is shown as Farmers widow?
RG10/2047/0/18
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Hi again, maybe turned his hand to farming later in life, as in 1881 Mary is 77 lodging with an Arscott? Hawking 38 with wife Grace 37 and family at Middle Week, Iddesleigh, one of the children is a Caleb.
Census ref RG11/2223/67/6
Keyboard86
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Hi again, maybe Caleb turned his hand to farming later in life, as in 1881 Mary is 77 lodging with an Arscott? Hawking 38 with wife Grace 37 and family at Middle Week, Iddesleigh, one of the children is a Caleb.
Census ref RG11/2223/67/6
Keyboard86
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;D Hit quote rather than modify!
Burial Mary Heale 3rd June 1891 Iddesleigh abode Middle Week in this parish aged 87
Keyboard86
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East Week was the address on that badly spelt 1851 census ;D
Willow x
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Hi again in 1891:-
Henry Weeks 77
Mary H Weeks 66
Mary Heale 87 widow/sister
Residing at Middle Week
Census ref RG12/1754/56/4
That lot should help you further back!
Keyboard86
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Wow, thanks for those keyboard, that's amazing. I'm a bit exhausted right now, but I'll look at it all again when I've recovered a bit.
Willow, that marriage between John Heale and Elizabeth Woodman tallies with the Ancestry family history. Thanks for finding it.
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Not a problem I suspect the Heale families in Iddersleigh are all related somehow its just proving it
John and Elizabeth also had
William 4.9.1808
Abel 19.1.1806
Mary 1.9.1799
Willow x
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Right, I've had a chance to go through all the information that you found yesterday and I think it boils down to this:
John Heale married: 5 December 1795 Iddesleigh John Heale to Elizabeth Woodman
Caleb Heale baptised: CALLEB Heale 19th February 1804 Iddesleigh Father John Mother Elizabeth
Also born to John Heale and Elizabeth:
Mary 1 September1799
Abel 19 January1806
William 4 September1808
Mary Weeks baptised: 11 March 1804 Iddesleigh Father Henery Mother Jane
Caleb Heale married: 18 April 1827 Iddesleigh Caleb Heale to Mary Weeks
7 October 1827 baptism at Iddesleigh John parents Caleb and Mary (it would seem that Mary was 6 months pregnant when they married)
23 December 1832 baptism at Iddesleigh Caleb parents Caleb and Mary
1851 census
Mary Heale 47 b Iddesleigh married smiths wife
William Heale 19 son b Iddesleigh smith
Jane Heale 10 dau b Iddesleigh
Grace Heale 7 dau b Iddesleigh
Caleb Heale buried: 7th March 1855 Iddesleigh aged 51 abode Middle Wick in the parish of Iddesleigh
Plus the various sightings of Caleb junior and also Mary as a widow in the censuses. I think the Grace Hawking that Mary stayed with was her daughter, as I found a record in the BMD index for Arscot Hawking (what a name!) marrying Grace Heale Jul-Sep Okehampton 5b 681.
The only thing that's not entirely clear to me is who this pair were
Caleb Heale married Grace Heale 2 April 1810 Iddesleigh
this Caleb must have been born in about 1790. Perhaps he was nephew of John Heale, born to one of John's brothers. He could have been the chap who died in 1839.
I do thank everyone for looking all this up, it's been really helpful.
I do have one further lookup request, actually it's sort of 2 in 1. The original couple I was interested in was Henry Humphreys and Jane Heale. I'm now interested in Henry's grandparents Robert Humphreys and Susan. From the censuses Robert was born in Cockington, Torquay, in about 1790, while Susan was born in Torquay in 1788. There's a marriage listed for a Robert Humphreys in 1811 in Cockington, Devon, and also a baptism in 1788. I'd be very grateful if someone could look those two up for me.
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Hi again, will look further for you, in addition to the known children of Caleb and Mary, their was also a Henry HEAL baptised 24th May 1829 Iddesleigh Father Caleb occ Blacksmith Mother Mary
Also William HELE baptism 13th February 1831 Iddesleigh Father Caleb occ Blacksmith Mother Mary
Grace Heale 3rd December 1843 Father Caleb occ Blacksmith Mother Mary
Jane Heale 14th February 1841 Iddesleigh Father Caleb occ Blacksmith Mother Mary
In your reply to my marriage find to James Humphreys you mentioned her pob as DILLING, was this from a census return?
The Jane b c 1854 with Mary in 1861 is possibly a Grandchild of Henry eg an Elizabeth Jane b Dolton?
The Caleb Heale death in 1839 was burial Caleb Heale 27th March 1839 Iddesleigh aged 63 abode Lower Week in Iddesleigh.
The witnesses at the marriage in 1810 Caleb Heale to Grace Heale, were John Braund and Grace Heale
Keyboard86
Done it again!!
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Hi again, will look further for you, in addition to the known children of Caleb and Mary, their was also a Henry HEAL baptised 24th May 1829 Iddesleigh Father Caleb occ Blacksmith Mother Mary
Also William HELE baptism 13th February 1831 Iddesleigh Father Caleb occ Blacksmith Mother Mary
Grace Heale 3rd December 1843 Father Caleb occ Blacksmith Mother Mary
Jane Heale 14th February 1841 Iddesleigh Father Caleb occ Blacksmith Mother Mary
In your reply to my marriage find to James Humphreys you mentioned her pob as DILLING, was this from a census return?
The Jane b c 1854 with Mary in 1861 is possibly a Grandchild of Henry eg an Elizabeth Jane b Dolton?
The Caleb Heale death in 1839 was burial Caleb Heale 27th March 1839 Iddesleigh aged 63 abode Lower Week in Iddesleigh.
The witnesses at the marriage in 1810 Caleb Heale to Grace Heale, were John Braund and Grace Heale
So if John Heale married Elizabeth Woodman in 1795 not this marriage?
Done it again!
Keyboard86
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Thanks for those extra baptisms, keyboard, that's useful.
As for Jane Heale' birth place, yes, in the 1881 census it's given as Dilling, Devon, but in the 1891 census it's given as Torquay. Perhaps she was trying to find somewhere that people might have heard of in London (where she ended up), or perhaps the person filling in the form wasn't too sure exactly where she'd been born.
I agree about the Elizabeth Jane who was born in Dolton in the 1861 census with Mary Heale was probably a granddaughter rather than a daughter. There is a record for that baptism on FindMyPast, which might give her parents.
So the Caleb Heale who died in 1839 was born in 1876, or thereabouts. I wondered whether he might have been a brother of John Heale, and so our Caleb's uncle, but I have no way of knowing. None of the family trees on Ancestry mention that, but then they don't give their sources, so who knows where they got their information from.
This marriage between Caleb Heale and Grace Heale is also a puzzler. They must have been cousins of a sort, first or second or what have you. My brain is starting to hurt with all these relations now!
Thanks for looking all that up. Things are graudally becoming clearer (in general!).
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Hi again:-
Marriage by banns Robert Humphreys to Susanna Morgan 10th November 1811 Cockington
Baptism Robert Humphery born 31st July 1788 baptised 14th August 1788 Cockington Father John Mother Mary
Baptism Susanna Morgan born 4th March 1787 baptised 19th March 1787 Tormoham, Torquay Father Job Mother Ann
Or
Susan Morgan born 15th April 1787 baptised 29th April 1787 Tormoham, Torquay
Father John Mother Elizabeth
Keyboard86
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Thank you very, very much for that keyboard, I really appreciate it.
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Henry Heale married Elizabeth Ware March qtr 1852 Torrington 5b 831
In 1861:-
Henry Heale 28? Occ Farm Lab b Iddesleigh
Elizth 27 b Winkleigh
Mary 8 b Dolton
Henry 5 b Dolton
John 2 b Dolton
Residing at Dowland Village
Census ref RG09/1498/33/3
In 1871 as Henry HILE aged 40 b Iddesleigh
Census ref RG10/2195/35/7
Keyboard86
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Hello, My ancestor, Caleb Heale is the son or connected to the Heales you are talking about.
I'm having issues finding a little bit of information about him. What I can tell you is he sailed to Australia looking for gold. There are plenty of us over here.
I hope to hear from you, regards from Elizabeth
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Caleb Heale, 1832 born to Caleb Heale and Mary ? Caleb sr is a Blacksmith. Ancestry is full of people copying anything and everything.
I think my Caleb is eldest brother of your Jane? Some of these comments are very interesting for me THANK YOU.
You can't find my Caleb because you are not looking in the right place! He married and sailed away to the Victorian gold fields, AUSTRALIA.
they had 5 children and the family is still going strong. But only one person really searching for the "right Heales!" That's me...
I have done my DNA so has my mother we are on gedmatch