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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: ChristineBonnitcha on Wednesday 18 February 15 23:32 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace my grandfathers family. Ernest Charles Langley 1882-1946 (died in Sydney, Australia) married Alice, immigrated to Australia 1907 with brothers and sisters, lived in Stockport. Possibly worked in hat mills but don't know which one. His brother Henry/Harry started Union Hat Mills in Victoria, Australia. Living in Australia I am having trouble tracing anything about hat mills, have family tree on Ancestry. Any help greatly appreciated.
Thank you
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Hi,
Where and what have you done to search for this family please?
Leanne
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Hi Christine,
Welcome to rootschat :)
From NSW state records http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/ , keyname search, register of firms
Bedford Hat Company, Ladies Hat Manufacturer, rear 33 Wells St, Redfern, date of registration 6 Feb 1915, Person carrying on business Ernest LANGLEY and Harriett May PAINE
regards
Ros
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Hi,
Search TROVE.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/
Leanne
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Hi,
http://www.moreland.vic.gov.au/mccwr/_assets/main/lib91131/d12%20146496-interwar%20factories%20series%20citation.pdf
Leanne
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Thanks for replies.........but most seem to be for searching here in Australia, I'm looking for family history in England if anyone can help with that I would be very grateful. Residence in 1891 18 Nelson St Portwood, 1901 54 Brady St Stockport.
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Hi,
Your request was unclear that you were requiring help with England.
Leanne
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Hi,
http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/leisureculture/visitstockport/museumsandgalleries/museumsandgalleries/hatworks/
Leanne
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Hi,
Is this the marriage of your Ernest?
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Marriages Dec 1906
COOPER Alice Stockport 8a 64
LANGLEY Ernest Stockport 8a 64
Leanne
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Hi Leanne
yes I think that is the correct marriage, that is the one i found. but how do i confirm alice is a cooper?
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Hi,
You could get a transcription of the following from NSW BDM:
32894/1951
LANGLEY Alice
Father (COOPER)
Wife Ernest LANGLEY
Registered at RANDWICK
Leanne
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Hi,
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18236351?
Leanne
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Thanks Leanne, just read it, you are very fast :)
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Is it possible to find out which hat mills my family worked in, or were there too many in Stockport
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I am trying to trace my grandfathers family. Ernest Charles Langley 1882-1946 (died in Sydney, Australia) married Alice, immigrated to Australia 1907 with brothers and sisters, lived in Stockport. Possibly worked in hat mills but don't know which one. His brother Henry/Harry started Union Hat Mills in Victoria, Australia. Living in Australia I am having trouble tracing anything about hat mills, have family tree on Ancestry. Any help greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Have you looked at any census images?
Ernest LANGLEY was not connected to the hatting industry in 1901. He was a cotton mule spinner in a cotton factory.
His father, John, was a hatter apparently preparing felt.
The ship Persic arrived Feb 1907 and the manifest shows Ernest LANGLEY as a Butcher- as far as I am able to decipher. The three young children, as you say, siblings of Ernest LANGLEY, are listed- Elizabeth aged 8, Annie aged 10 and Harry aged 11. They were all contracted to disembark at Melbourne.
One William George LANGLEY was on the same voyage. He was 32 and I cannot decipher his occupation. He was contracted to land in Sydney.
Sue
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Ernest and Alice married 17 Nov 1906 at St Paul's Church Portwood
Ernest Langley 23 Bachelor Occupation Hatter father John also a Hatter,
Alice Cooper 21 Spinster father Robert Cooper [dec] Packer
Residence for both of them 20 Mellor Street,
Witnesses Albert Wright and Mary Barnes.
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A possible baptism for Ernest.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3JH-12B
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Cheshire bmd have the birth regs for Ernest and his siblings all with mother's maiden name Pearson
All Stockport Second which was the sub district for Portwood.
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/births.php
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This is a possibility for Alice's birth
Births Dec 1883
COOPER, Alice Ann
Stockport
8a/74
In 1901
COOPER Robert, Head. Aged 54 Packer in Block? Works
COOPER, Elizabeth. Wife. Aged 58
COOPER, John H. Son. Aged 23. Locomotive Engine Cleaner.
COOPER, Alice A.Dau. Aged 17. Card Room Hand Cotton Mill :D
All born Stockport, Cheshire.
Sue
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A possible marriage for parents of Ernest.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJV8-SH3
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There is a death record on Cheshire bmd for Hannah Langley 36 1905 Stockport Second
possible mother of Ernest also his sister Lily died 1901
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/deaths.php
I can't find a death for John Langley nor can I see him 1911. Did he also go to Australia with the rest of the family?
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sparrett thank you I had a sarah kinge for alice's mother.......
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rolnora....thank you. i had Hannah and Lily deaths also yesteday found 4 more children that died before one year that i knew nothing about
Yes John Langley came to Aus in 1903 on Runic...did he divorce Hannah??
He married Carrie Ann Cartledge lived in melb and owned Union Hat Mills with brother Arthur Langley
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rolnora...what is the difference between Stockport first and Stockport second please
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I'm looking for birth of Elizabeth Warren she married John Langley in 1855 cheadle st mary stockport.
How do I find births for females when I don't know their parents name? I checked for Elizabeth Warren but heaps came up and I don't know who is the one I need. Cheers
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Yes John Langley came to Aus in 1903 on Runic...did he divorce Hannah??
He married Carrie Ann Cartledge lived in melb and owned Union Hat Mills with brother Arthur Langley
The manifest for the ship RUNIC to Australia in 1903 shows LANGLEY, John. Aged 42. Hatter. Married. Contracted to land Sydney
It is possible Hannah was arranged to follow with the children, but became ill and not able to follow. Upon her death, perhaps Ernest took charge to bring the younger children to their father.
It is also possible John returned to England at that time to mark the passing of his wife and then again back to Australia.
Sue
ADDING
In case you do not have it, Arthur LANGLEY aged 38 and married arrived in 1904 per RUNIC with his wife and 2 children. He was a Farrier and contracted for landing in Sydney
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sparrett thank you I had a sarah kinge for alice's mother.......
Hi,
We cannot be certain about the mother, but I have based the guess on the information from Rolnora in Reply#15 that Alice's father was named Robert COOPER and was packer, which matches the census material I have given.
There is a marriage in Stockton
1876. June 1/4
Robert COOPER
Elizabeth JACKSON
8a/34
All speculative ::)
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rolnora...what is the difference between Stockport first and Stockport second please
They're both listed at Cheshire bmd index as sub-districts for the Registration district of Stockport, Cheshire. There was also Stockport third :)
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/stockport.html
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/deathcov.php
Cheers, JM
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I'm looking for birth of Elizabeth Warren she married John Langley in 1855 cheadle st mary stockport.
How do I find births for females when I don't know their parents name? I checked for Elizabeth Warren but heaps came up and I don't know who is the one I need. Cheers
Christine,
A couple of avenues are open to you.
You could purchase the certificate of marriage of John LANGLEY and Elizabeth WARREN.
It may not tell you all you are looking for, but you should be able to get her father's name at least.
You could find the couple in 1861 and use the information on those records to narrow down your search.
No doubt the English chatters will have some good tips on the problem for you too ;D
Sue
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John Langley married Elizabeth Warren 1 July 1855 at St Mary's Church Cheadle.
John was 21 and a bachelor, his occ Boiler maker and he resided in Edgeley father George occ Collier
Elizabeth Warren 21 Spinster also Edgeley, father Henry occ Hatter.
Witnesses John Axon and Elizabeth Firth.
They married by Banns and both signed X
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A possible baptism for Elizabeth Warren.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1H3-4M1
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Christine,
As sparrett said in an earlier post,
Everything we find is "speculative" and based on the details given to us. So please do keep that in mind when your reading our replies. ;)
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In 1861 there is a family which may be the correct one-
Address 27 Barlow St, Stockport.
LANGLEY, Elizabeth . Head. Aged 26. Married. Cotton ?? Loom Worker
LANGLEY. Mary Jane. Dau. Aged 5. Scholar
LANGLEY, Henry . Son. Aged 3.
All born Stckport, Cheshire
Sue
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I can't find a census record for a Henry Warren with wife Jane but I have found a burial record for a Jane Warren
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCKG-
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rolnora re reply#29 How can I find a mother for John Langley....I have found a few George Langleys with son John born 1834 same as my John but with different mothers..... I have no siblings to compare :(
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Hello Christine,
It's going to be a case of checking census and baptism records and if there are lots of them eliminating them one by one.So not an easy task ???
I have found this marriage which could be George given that it's at Cheadle St Mary but you will need to check it out.
23 June 1833
George Langley and Mary Henshall residing Cheadle Parish married after banns both signed X
Witnesses George Smith [church official] and John Ridings.
It's a good idea to check out the witnesses on all the marriages, they may be relations. ::)
Try this website, it's not easy to use but there are an awful lot of Langleys on it and it may help.
http://cgi.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/
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Hello again Christine.
I had a quick look at your tree on Ancestry and you don't seem to have 1841/51 census records for John Langley b1834.
I think you need to find him in those years before you do anything else.
It's possible that for some reason he wasn't with his parents.
If ,and it's a big if, the 1833 marriage of George to Mary Henshall is the correct one then this 1841 census record might be relevant. Relationships are not given on this census but it's possible that William Henshall was John's grandfather ???
William Henshall 60 Wood cutter
Joseph Henshall 23 Ag lab
Elizabeth Henshall 19
John Langley 7
Living at Northenden and all born in county.
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Hello Christine,
Reply #32 1861 census shows Elizabeth married with children Mary Jane and Henry.
This is the correct record for Elizabeth Warren Langley. John isn't with her.
The 1861 census shows him living in Athol St Liverpool. The record shows Unm but I'm pretty sure it's him. ::)
John Langley 27 boarder Stockport occ Boiler maker.
RG 9 Piece 2658 Folio 57 Page 9
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Hi rolnora and Christine.
I am not so sure about John LANGLEY the boiler maker being the right man. John Langley, missing in 1861 is back with his wife in 1871 and there are more children
1871
LANGLEY, John. Head. Aged 37 Miller ( I wonder if this is a mistranscription for Milliner)
LANGLEY, Elizabeth. Wife. Aged 35. Hat Trimmer
LANGLEY, Henry. Son. Aged 12 Scholar
LANGLEY, Joyce. Dau. Aged 7. Scholar
LANGLEY George. Son Aged 4. Scholar.
All born Stockport, Cheshire.
Piece: 3661
Folio: 66
Page Number: 29
1881
Address. 143 Gt Portwood Street. Binnington
LANGLEY, John, Head. Aged 47. Felt Hat ??. Employing?? Girls
LANGLEY, Elizabeth Wife. Aged 45
LANGLEY, Joyce Dau. Aged 17. (Can't decipher)
LANGLEY, George. Son.Aged 14. ??Office
LANGLEY, Willliam. Son. Aged 11, Scholar
LANGLEY, Joseph. Son. Aged 8, Scholar
LANGLEY, Arthur. Son. Aged 5, Scholar.
All born Stockport, Cheshire.
Piece: 3483
Folio: 7
Page Number: 8
Sue
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Hi Sue,
Yes those census records threw me as well but if you go to the 1891/1901 he's back to being a boiler man... as on the marriage cert......same children and if I remember rightly Elizabeth is now Elizabeth A ???
I haven't time to print them at the minute just on my way out but have a look ,see what you think.
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Yes, I had a look and I agree with you, it certainly seems to be the same family, and John has reverted to Boiler-maker. ::)
Sue
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Hi rolnora and Sue thanks for replies, I think we have the correct John Langley finally...Elizabeth being in the hat mills makes sense because my Langleys that came to Aus started hat mills in Sydney and Melbourne. They being my grandfather and great uncles. Is there anyway of finding out which mill in Stockport they worked in...I really would love to get information on this part of their lives. Thank you all again for all the help. Also any photos of them or the places they lived and worked. I never knew my grandparents on either side of my family, they all died long before I was born and my parents didn't talk about them much and I don't have any photos but I remember seeing a couple in my mum's album when I was young
Cheers
Christine
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Hi rolnora and Sue thanks for replies, I think we have the correct John Langley finally...Elizabeth being in the hat mills makes sense because my Langleys that came to Aus started hat mills in Sydney and Melbourne. They being my grandfather and great uncles. out which Is there anyway of finding mill in Stockport they worked in...I really would love to get information on this part of their lives. Thank you all again for all the help. Also any photos of them or the places they lived and worked. I never knew my grandparents on either side of my family, they all died long before I was born and my parents didn't talk about them much and I don't have any photos but I remember seeing a couple in my mum's album when I was young
Cheers
Christine
Hi Christine,
I am not able to assist at all with this part of your request :(
Sue
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Hello Christine,
There were any number of hat works in Stockport and it would be impossible to pinpoint where the Langleys worked. If I was to hazard a guess judging from where they lived in Barlow St and Union St I would plump for Christies it was the biggest one of all employing at it's height 3000 workers and both streets were close to Christies premises on Hillgate.
The hatters had a union, "The Stockport Society of Journeymen Hatters".
I know that they held their meetings at the Blossoms Hotel on Wellington Road South and
If I'm not mistaken Stockport Heritage Library hold some of the accounts from those meetings in their archives. If any of the family belonged then they may be named. ::)
You could try sending an email they may be able to help.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w7h/
Also have a look at the photographs on the Stockport image archives. I know that there are some of Brady St and there could be others that will interest you.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01et5/
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Christine,
You could try Facebook, I don't use it but I think they do have a Christie page and also a Portwood page. You never know you might find some Langley descendants there. :)
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Thanks so much for that I will try all you have suggested and let you know how I go
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Do you mean Christies auction house?
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Hi There
Just reading over this post from a google link!
So Henry Langley of Union Hat Mills was my great great grandfather.
He was born in Stockport 1958 to Elizabeth & Henry Langley.
He married Hannah, was a felt hatter, and had a daughter Elizabeth. Somewhere along the line (or so the story goes) he skipped town and left his wife and child to And ended up in Australia.
He was first in Victoria then to NSW.
He had a daughter Carry Edna Langley, the mother (which we are unsure to confirm if they were married) was a Kate/Carry Knowles
Carry Edna Langley was my great grandmother.
Kate/Carry Knowles died when she was about 32, and Henry remarried to a Helen/Nellie Bushe. They had some kids together also.
They resides mainly in the Coogee/Randwick area
I’ve been told Helen/Nellie was quite a dragon lady - and had told Carry Edna that she was an illegitimate child (semi confirming suspicions that Henry and Kate/Carry were never indeed married)
Carry Edna Langley married James Reginald Mackenzie - and in turn had my grandmother - Jean Langley Mackenzie, along with 3 other children.
We have also since found out Henry Langley owned Union Hat Mills & Union Gelatine Mills in Waterloo NSW - U.G.M was later acquired by Davis Gelatine.
He also knew Dunkerly Hat Mills which became Akubra hats.
A lot of this may be irrelevant to your family history - but it may help you in your searches within family names etc.
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Thank you for this info. It is my mums family.
Do you mean Hry was born 1859 not 1958?
Do you have his grandparents? Some of the names are new to me so it will be interesting to see how the link up.
Are you in Australia?
Cheers
Christine
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1858, sorry 19 was a typo!
Well I can tell you in my searches an Ernest Langley and Harriet May Paine owned Bedford Hat Company which was ladies hats, in 33 Wells st Redfern NSW
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/searchhits_nocopy?id=48&name%20of%20firm=&nature%20of%20business=Hat&place%20of%20business=&person%20carrying%20on%20business=Langley&additional%20people%20in%20business=
Henry Langley’s parents were Henry & Elizabeth Langley (née warren)
Still trying to get further with that with names (it seems every family has a Henry, a Thomas & a John!)
I’m in Sydney, you?
How is your mum related?
I’ll see what else I can find and keep in touch!
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Thanks for that.
Ernest and Alice are my grandparents on my Mum's side.
Yes I knew Ernest and Harriet owned the mills in Sydney.
I thought Henry may also have been know as Harry as Harry and John owned Union Hat Mills in Carlton Vic. Lots in Trove abt them. and Albert too I think.
We are in Hobart at the moment due to hubby's dad on palliative care and all the family are here. We moved down from Millthorpe a cpl months ago. Moving back to QLD next year after dad passes.
Do you have any family photos? My sister has all the photos and we don't talk.....
Cheers
Chrissy
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I am trying to trace my grandfathers family. Ernest Charles Langley 1882-1946 (died in Sydney, Australia) married Alice, immigrated to Australia 1907 with brothers and sisters, lived in Stockport. Possibly worked in hat mills but don't know which one. His brother Henry/Harry started Union Hat Mills in Victoria, Australia. Living in Australia I am having trouble tracing anything about hat mills, have family tree on Ancestry. Any help greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Have you looked at any census images?
Ernest LANGLEY was not connected to the hatting industry in 1901. He was a cotton mule spinner in a cotton factory.
His father, John, was a hatter apparently preparing felt.
The ship Persic arrived Feb 1907 and the manifest shows Ernest LANGLEY as a Butcher- as far as I am able to decipher. The three young children, as you say, siblings of Ernest LANGLEY, are listed- Elizabeth aged 8, Annie aged 10 and Harry aged 11. They were all contracted to disembark at Melbourne.
One William George LANGLEY was on the same voyage. He was 32 and I cannot decipher his occupation. He was contracted to land in Sydney.
Sue
Hi Sue
Im just going back over my records and wondered if you could tell me where you found this info please? I cant find it on NAA. I realise its been years but here's hoping.... Cheers Chrissy
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Umm....
I can see a William G LANGLEY a single male aged 52 with 'None' entered for Profession, Occupation, or Calling of Passengers ... on a Passenger List for the Persic, contracted to Land in Sydney but for the Voyage in October 1907, Western Australia Cree and Passenger Lists, through Albany...
I think it is 52 years of age, but it could be 32 ... anyway see snip attached :)
JM
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Umm....
I can see a William G LANGLEY a single male aged 52 with 'None' entered for Profession, Occupation, or Calling of Passengers ... on a Passenger List for the Persic, contracted to Land in Sydney but for the Voyage in October 1907, Western Australia Cree and Passenger Lists, through Albany...
I think it is 52 years of age, but it could be 32 ... anyway see snip attached :)
JM
Thanks but im really after Ernest and could you please tell me where and how you found this info please? I have other Langleys who arrived from England that I need to research ...
Cheers C