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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Bedfordshire => England => Bedfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: KarenE on Tuesday 24 February 15 09:26 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Can anybody help me with information about my Shaw ancestors from Bedfordshire area? I have Angelina born Shillington 1832 to Margaret Shaw ( I know nothing about Margaret and she disappears after the birth of Angelina). Angelina’s father may have been Thomas Pate from Baldock. It has been suggested that Margaret may be the sister of Mary Shaw born 1791, also born in Shillington. I haven’t been able to find any trace of her birth or marriage. Angelina is living with Mary ( Penn) in Baldock in 1841 so this suggests a family connection. Thanks
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Hello Karen
Mary Penn may be an aunt to Angelina...
Marriage Mary Shaw + Jn. Penn 8th. Aug. 1812 at Shillington
Jackie
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thanks - it does look like that. However, i wondered about the ages of the people concerned. Given that Mary is 46 years older than angelina, what age would her mother have been? Yes, there could have been a big age gap between the sisters or Mary might have come to motherhood late in life , but it struck me as odd that she was an unmarried late mother.
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thanks - it does look like that. However, i wondered about the ages of the people concerned. Given that Mary is 46 years older than angelina, what age would her mother have been? Yes, there could have been a big age gap between the sisters or Mary might have come to motherhood late in life , but it struck me as odd that she was an unmarried late mother.
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Karen
Could Margaret have been an illigitimate daughter of Mary Penn(Shaw) dates seem to fit better.
A Margaret Penn marries Edw. Anderson at Baldock in 1834.
Therefore Angelina ...g.daughter of Mary Penn (Shaw)
Jackie
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Baptism's at Shillington both 1781 or 4
Mary + Margaret Shaw with parents Aaron + Sarah
info from
www.familysearch.org
Jackie
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I have to say that I rather thought illegitimate daughter - Margaret Penn would have been about 17 when Angelina was born and there is a Thomas Pate of a similar age. That would make John and Mary her grandparents - pity the 1841 census didnt ask for relationships. Of course, they could have lied.
Thing is though, they married in 1812 and their daughter Margaret is born in 1815.i know people werent always honest about their lives. I suppose they could have lied but these events are supported by documentary evidence. How would they get round that?
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Just had a lookat Aaron Shaw. That does seem the most likely link even if the dates dont match
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Shillington PR transcript has marriage on 8th Aug 1812 of John Penn? of Baldock, Herts to Mary Shaw by licence. The licence transcript dated 7 Aug 1812 shows the same, both John & Mary being aged 21+ & surety given by John Flint, draper of Shillington.
There's a baptism of Mary daughter of Aaron & Sarah Shaw of 17 Oct 1784 (so where did 1791 come from?). Previous to that there's baptism on 14 Feb 1773 of Aaron, son of Moses & Susan Shaw, traveller.
Burials on 19 Sept 1789 of Sarah Shaw & on 3 Feb 1797 of Aaron Shaw.
So daughter Mary is orphaned at age 13 so maybe the Flints took her in, perhaps related?
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thanks for your comments and your help.
The 1791 date came from somebody who is also looking - I dont know where she found it. Based on what you have all suggested so far, Mary and Margaret were born 1780s. This would make Margaret about 51 when Angelina was born. I can't see that as likely. The best solution would be for her to be Mary's daughter but that doesnt fit what I know either . Its almost like a generation is missing. I still feel tho that your offer of Aaron and Sarah belongs. I m checking the Flint name
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Baptism's at Shillington both 1781 or 4
Mary + Margaret Shaw with parents Aaron + Sarah
info from www.familysearch.org
The Margaret, daughter of Aaron & Sarah Shaw baptised 28 Oct 1781 was at Southill where Aaron is a labourer. No other Shaw names on Southill transcript up to 1812
Also there is Elizabeth , daughter of "Aren" & Sarah Shaw baptised at Harlington on 19 Feb 1769.
...plus 2 baptised at Sandy, 9 Nov 1776 Rosansa & 14 Nov 1773 Sarah where it states that they were from Shillington
It'd be good if we could find a marriage for Aaron & Sarah. Did they travel as did Aaron's parents.
Harlington to Sandy to Southill to Shillington ?
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Next... baptism at Shillington on 16 Sept 1832 Angelina, base born daughter of Margaret Shaw, abode Workhouse.
Marriage March qtr 1851 Hitchin RD 6/699 Angelina Shaw one of the male names was John Castle
1851 census living in Norton St Baldock
John Castle b 1827 Baldock, Rail Labourer
Angelina Castle b 1832 Shillington
Ancestry kindly presents the transcribed marriage on 2 Feb 1851 at Norton, Herts of John Castle age 24 & Angelina Shaw age 19, her father shown as Thomas Pate
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thanks John P. Where did you get your info that Angelina was born in the workhouse? and which workhouse would it have been? I am not surprised if she was illegitimate. I have the marriage to John Castle in my tree - they were my g-g grandparents.
I know nothing at all about the Shaw family - it was finding a common ancestor( one of Mary's grandaughters) that put me in contact with somebody on another site. I did some digging and traced the Penn family back ( more out of curiosity because they arent in my direct line).
The Shaw connection with Shillington has to be relevant but Margaret's age just doesn't fit with Angelina's birth in 1832. As I have said, I wondered if she was Mary's daughter but could she be a grand daughter of Aaron Shaw? I am checking that line of enquiry
If Angelina was born in the workhouse I am guessing there will be a bastardy order somewhere against Thomas Pate. I can find 2 who fit the bill – both born 1811. Would that be lodged in Herts or Beds archives?
You folks are so helpful : )
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Abode workhouse .... as per the Shillington Baptisms from parish records.
There was a workhouse in Shillington at that time and there were others in the area.
Not sure if Beds Archives have any records.
I can find no bastardy order for Thomas Pate with Margaret Shaw in both Beds Poor Law Index & Blarrs on-line catalogue nor in the Hertfordshire Names online.
There is an entry in Beds Poor Law reg P44/18/4 in 1828 regarding a "receipt... for medicines delivered to Margaret Penn of Shillington, a pauper". There is a burial of Margaret Penn at Baldock on 16 Aug 1830 age 24 (born 1806 - so cannot be daughter of John Penn & Mary Shaw)
NB - LDS have a Baldock baptism on 5 Feb 1815 of Peggy, daughter of John & Mary Penn
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A Margaret Penn marries Edw. Anderson at Baldock in 1834.
This was on 18 May 1834 - marriage record available on FindMyPast
on 1841 census at Baldock Edward Anderson 1801 & Margararet 1811, where as well as son Ezekial 1838 there is a 8 year old Ann Pate ?
on 1851 in Norton, Margaret Anderson, widow b 1815 Baldock (Edward buried 8/10/1849)
June qtr 1860 Hitchin RD Margaret Anderson married James Walker
on 1861 in Baldock, James Walker 1810 & Margaret Walker 1812 Baldock
If you get the 1860 marriage cert it might tell you her father.
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Thank you so much for your hard work.
I am going to run this information by my Penn tree researcher - see what she makes of it
I've got some really good leads to follow and an excuse to visit then Bedfordshire Archives!
Karen