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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: jeaves on Tuesday 03 March 15 13:30 GMT (UK)
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Hello. I am searching for a John Alder, who was my great-great-great-great grandfather. His son, John Lewis Alder (b. 1813), joined the military (71st Foot Soldiers, First Battallion) on 26 Feb,1831 and left Norham to be stationed in the Bahamas. Afterward he moved to the U.S., married in Buffalo, NY and homesteaded in Eastman, Wisconsin. I don't have much information on John Lewis Alder's Father, whose name was John, and who supposedly died in 1840, nor do I know much more about the Alders who remained in the Area. If anyone has any information or suggestions, I would very much appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
Best, J.D.
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Welcome to Rootschat
This is the only death I can find that might fit.
Deaths Sep 1841
ALDER John Tynemouth 25 753
How do you know that his name was John?
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There's just the 1 Baptism in Norham:
John Alder
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:
17 January 1813
NORHAM,NORTHUMBERLAND
Parents:
Thomas Grey Alder
Barbara
Where did his father's name come from ?
In case it's the right family this is all of them:
Thomas Lee Alder
birth:
9 November 1811
christening:
29 November 1811
John Alder
christening:
17 January 1813
David Marshal Alder
christening:
4 September 1814
Robert Thorp Alder
christening:
6 December 1815
Jane Marshall Alder
christening:
2 August 1818
Mary Gregson Alder
christening:
7 August 1820
Charles Alder
christening:
6 October 1824
William Edward Alder
christening:
12 June 1826
Parents: Thomas Grey Elder & Barbara Lee.
Can't see a marriage but there's this Baptism;
Barbara Lee
25 March 1793 NORHAM
Parents:
David & Jane Lee
Now this John is still in Norham in 1841.
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There's just the 1 Baptism in Norham:
John Alder
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:
17 January 1813
NORHAM,NORTHUMBERLAND
Parents:
Thomas Grey Alder
Barbara
This John is with his father in Norham in 1841. I think that he could also be married and on the 1861 & 1871 census
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A couple of important bits of information about Norham which are worth bearing in mind:
1) Until the mid-1840's it was a detached part of County Durham (Norhamshire)
2) It is very close to the Scottish border.
Some Norham parish records via the Durham Bishops Transcripts can be seen here
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11110-173689-52?cc=1309819&wc=9K5M-YW5:13618101,30507801,30507802
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Sorry jeaves I should have said 'Welcome to rootschat' :)
Does his Army record have his full name. Is it available to view online.
Rosie
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I don't have much information on John Lewis Alder's Father, whose name was John, and who supposedly died in 1840,
Do you have documentation for this?
There are some trees on Ancestry which state that he died in 1840, but that he was also enumerated in the 1841 census ::)
None of the trees I can see provide any definite documentation at all for this supposed date of death :-\
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Does his Army record have his full name. Is it available to view online.
It's in Canada, British Regimental Registers of Service 1756 - 1900 on Ancestry. His name on there is John Alder.
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Thank you JenB ;D
No middle name there then. :-\
Rosie
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
It looks like this John deserted, from "Army Deserters 1828-1840" at FindMyPast,
John ALDER
Age: 25
Birth year: 1815
Birth town: Norham, Durham
Summary: 98th Foot; 25; Norham; Durham; Carpenter; 27 Jul 1840
I found this burial in Wisconsin but it doesn't mention a middle name.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=82960362&ref=acom
Where does the middle name of Lewis come from and why do you think he was born in Norham?
Regards,
Daisy
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why do you think he was born in Norham?
It says so in the Regimental details I mentioned to Rosie earlier in this thread :)
It's in Canada, British Regimental Registers of Service 1756 - 1900 on Ancestry. His name on there is John Alder.
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Oh yes, I noticed that but I wondered how/why Bert, the original poster, thought this was the John Lewis ALDER that he is researching :-\
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Welcome to Rootschat
This is the only death I can find that might fit.
Deaths Sep 1841
ALDER John Tynemouth 25 753
How do you know that his name was John?
Interesting. Thanks for the information. Honestly, I am not sure that his father's name was John. Someone posted that on ancestry.com, but it could easily be wrong, even though the location of his birth seems somewhat correct (Berwick, England). I have a PDF of John Lewis Alder's military enlistment document, which states that he was from Norham, and that he was 18 in February of 1831.
-Jon
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Sorry jeaves I should have said 'Welcome to rootschat' :)
Does his Army record have his full name. Is it available to view online.
Rosie
Hi, Rosie.
I could email you the whole enlistment document that was sent to me by a friend the other day. The doc is too large to upload on this thread, unfortunately (2.3MB). Attached is the line with his name. I do believe that this is the same John Lewis Alder who came to the Caribbean in the military, and then moved to Buffalo, NY and married Marie Antoinette Rossenbach (Rosenbach), though his middle name is not on the document. They then moved to Eastman, Wisconsin, and started a family. His son, John William Alder, joined the Union Army to fight in the Civil War, and John Lewis also joined. Both survived. John William was my grandfather's grandfather.
-Jon
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Jen's B.S's mention 2 Alders having children in Norham around 1813, Thomas & Barbara who are on page 1 & John & Jane. Only Thomas had a son called John.
Info on John Alder is that he was a potter from Long Framlington & his wife was Jane Hall from Morpeth.
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Welcome to Rootschat
This is the only death I can find that might fit.
Deaths Sep 1841
ALDER John Tynemouth 25 753
How do you know that his name was John?
Hello, and thanks for responding. I am curious to know what the two numbers mean that follow Tynemouth.
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
It looks like this John deserted, from "Army Deserters 1828-1840" at FindMyPast,
John ALDER
Age: 25
Birth year: 1815
Birth town: Norham, Durham
Summary: 98th Foot; 25; Norham; Durham; Carpenter; 27 Jul 1840
I found this burial in Wisconsin but it doesn't mention a middle name.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=82960362&ref=acom
Where does the middle name of Lewis come from and why do you think he was born in Norham?
Regards,
Daisy
Hi, Daisy.
Thanks for the tip. I will definitely check this out. Since I don't know much about his past, I have no idea whether or not this is also him. Very interesting.
Best,
Jon
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They are the index numbers you need to quote when ordering a certificate from the GRO - General Register Office.
https://www.gro.gov.uk
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Oh yes, I noticed that but I wondered how/why Bert, the original poster, thought this was the John Lewis ALDER that he is researching :-\
Hi, again, Daisypetal.
Actually, I am trying to track down information on the father (and English family) of John Lewis Alder, though any new information that I find about John Lewis Alder along the way is appreciated, too.
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
It looks like this John deserted, from "Army Deserters 1828-1840" at FindMyPast,
John ALDER
Age: 25
Birth year: 1815
Birth town: Norham, Durham
Summary: 98th Foot; 25; Norham; Durham; Carpenter; 27 Jul 1840
I found this burial in Wisconsin but it doesn't mention a middle name.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=82960362&ref=acom
Where does the middle name of Lewis come from and why do you think he was born in Norham?
Regards,
Daisy
Hi, Daisy.
I am not sure where the middle name, Lewis, originates, but I acquired that information from the family charts that my great grandfather (the grandson of John Lewis Alder) filled out in the 1930s.
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They are the index numbers you need to quote when ordering a certificate from the GRO - General Register Office.
https://www.gro.gov.uk
Thank you.
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Does his Army record have his full name. Is it available to view online.
Rosie
Hi, Rosie.
I could email you the whole enlistment document that was sent to me by a friend the other day.
No need thank you,
I was really interested to see if it had his middle name, place of birth and both queries have been answered here.
Rosie
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There's just the 1 Baptism in Norham:
There was also a Presbyterian Church at Norham which would be worth investigating for a baptism. However, I don't believe the records are available online - only at Northumberland Archives & Newcastle Library. http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Norham/ChurchRecords.html
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
It looks like this John deserted, from "Army Deserters 1828-1840" at FindMyPast,
John ALDER
Age: 25
Birth year: 1815
Birth town: Norham, Durham
Summary: 98th Foot; 25; Norham; Durham; Carpenter; 27 Jul 1840
I found this burial in Wisconsin but it doesn't mention a middle name.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=82960362&ref=acom
Where does the middle name of Lewis come from and why do you think he was born in Norham?
Regards,
Daisy
Hi again, Daisy.
Was there any other information accompanying the desertion info that you mentioned (familial info)? I am really curious to know if this was, in fact, my 4x-great grandfather. It might make some sense, considering that he never returned to England, and that he signed up to fight in the American Civil War when he was 45 (possibly to make up for having left the army previously?). Who knows? Sounds like I also need to set up an account at findmypast.
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Sounds like I also need to set up an account at findmypast.
They have a free weekend from Friday this week ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714676.0
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Sounds like I also need to set up an account at findmypast.
They have a free weekend from Friday this week ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714676.0
Thanks for letting me know!
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No Alder baptisms at Norham Presbyterian or Associated Congregation of Norham. 2 Elder baptisms but they were in the 1780's
There was an Alder family from Norham having children baptised in Spittal Presbyterian but no John Alder born around 1815 or so. One in 1830.
Nothing in Cornhill. Folks that lived in Norham used this parish sometimes.
Janis
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No Alder baptisms at Norham Presbyterian or Associated Congregation of Norham. 2 Elder baptisms but they were in the 1780's
There was an Alder family from Norham having children baptised in Spittal Presbyterian but no John Alder born around 1815 or so. One in 1830.
Nothing in Cornhill. Folks that lived in Norham used this parish sometimes.
Janis
Thanks, Janis. Apologies for my delay in responding. I'm a relative newcomer to genealogy, and after talking to a genealogist here in the States (who is also a distant relative), and re-reading some of the old family charts that I have in my possession, I have learned that the father of John Lewis Alder may have actually been named William. It *might* be possible that they were once Catholic, but it's difficult to know for sure. John Lewis Alder married a Catholic French woman in the U.S., after he arrived here. The Alder family seemed to become Presbyterian during the time of John Lewis Alder's son, who was baptized Catholic, but who married into a New England Presbyterian family. Apparently, both John Lewis Alder and his father (who may have been named William) had no siblings. I find it a bit odd that neither of them had siblings, so I will believe that when I know more.
Again, thank you for responding to my earlier search.
Sincerely, Jon