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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 16:19 GMT (UK)

Title: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 16:19 GMT (UK)
Hi , struggling to find Johns Death year, I know he wed Sarah Robinson 1841 Glanford Brigg & the couple had three children born in the Amcotts & Winterton area, any one any ideas please.

Cheers
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 16:25 GMT (UK)
Hi - have you found them in any census as that will narrow down the year of death?

Added: Found them in 1851, so alive then
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 16:38 GMT (UK)
Yes , the last child was born 1850 ish, I will post the children in order in 5 mins
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 16:41 GMT (UK)
Interesting - in 1861, the 3 children appear to be living alone although they are given as sons and daughter, if you look at the census image, they are infact a seperate household from George Tate (unmarried) and his sister Ann (also unmarried)

RG 9; Piece: 2400; Folio: 25; Page: 19
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 16:45 GMT (UK)
John Charles Scott bn 1842 Amcotts,   
William Scott bn 1844 Winterton
Sarah Scott bn 1850 Winterton

So from 1850 onwards, also struggling with spouse Sarah Robinson Parents bn 1810 in Amcotts

Thanks
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 16:47 GMT (UK)
The registration district of the 1861 census is Glandford Brigg, so is this John's death?

Deaths Sep 1858   
 
Scott    John        Glanford B    7a   383   
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 16:49 GMT (UK)
Possibly Sarah as well

Deaths Jun 1856   
Scott    Sarah Ann        Glanford Brigg    7a   364
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 16:51 GMT (UK)
Bloomin heck, that was quick....


Thanks again

John
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 16:54 GMT (UK)
Burial for John

27th June 1858 aged 38 All Saints, Winterton

I don't think that Sarah Ann is her, I think that was a 29 year old buried in Burton upon Stather. I wonder if your Sarah remarried?
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 05 March 15 16:58 GMT (UK)
Stamford Mercury, 2 July 1858
DEATHS - At Winterton, on the 26th ult, Mr John Scott, landagent, age 38
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 17:01 GMT (UK)
Brilliant, thanks for that.

John
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 17:06 GMT (UK)
Sarah in 1861



RG 9; Piece: 2400; Folio: 34; Page: 5
Winterton
 
Thomas Sanderson   27 
Hannah Sanderson   25
Hannah Bergt          16
Mary Bergt               8
Sarah Scott   51   servant   housekeeper               Amcotts, Lincolnshire
Mildred Bird   22
William Thornton   17
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 17:11 GMT (UK)
Sarah in 1881 with her daughter

RG11; Piece: 3286; Folio: 7; Page: 8   Winterton


Sarah Campion         31   head                  Winterton, Lincoln
Sarah Ann Campion   9
Ann Lewis Campion   7
Ellen Campion           5   
Sarah Scott           71  mother               Amcotts, Lincoln
William Bristow Scott   58  lodger                Spridlington, Lincoln
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 17:13 GMT (UK)
Her death

Sarah Scott
Estimated birth year:   abt 1810
Death   1888  Oct-Nov-Dec
Age :   78
Glanford Brigg Lincolnshire
Volume:   7a   Page:   395

Burial 5th Oct 1888 All Saints Winterton aged 78.
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 18:14 GMT (UK)
Absolutely brilliant, thank you Groom, if need be can I get back to you tomorrow ?

Thanks in fact to all

John
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 18:31 GMT (UK)
You're welcome.
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 05 March 15 20:58 GMT (UK)
Re John Scott's occupation in his death notice ("land agent" - farming bailiff in 1851 Census?), in September 1858 the paper published  an advert requesting claimants/debtors to contact Sarah Scott, of Winterton, sole Executrix. John was described as a"corn factor and hackney coach proprietor"
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 21:07 GMT (UK)
He sounds like he was a jack of all trades & master of none, Farming Bailiff, Land Agent & now Hackney carrier.


 Thanks for the heads up, did you come across anything about their children ?

Cheers
John
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 21:14 GMT (UK)
He left a will which was proved on the 25th Nov 1858. He was described as a farmer and his effects were under £200. You can order the will online here - it might name the children in it.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Scott&yearOfDeath=1858&page=6#calendar
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 21:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Groom, could you please help me with your earlier post when you said Sarah was in 1881 with daughter, the children I have do not fit, who was this daughter ? Sorry, I know it`s getting on & it is possibly me having a grey haired moment, I have John Charles Scott, William & Sarah .

Thanks Groom
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 21:21 GMT (UK)
Quote
Sorry, I know it`s getting on & it is possibly me having a grey haired moment, I have John Charles Scott, William & Sarah .

She is with her married daughter, Sarah, and her grandchildren.

The marriage of the daughter, Sarah Scott

Marriages Mar 1871   
Campion    Robert       
Scott    Sarah       
Glanford B    7a   873   

Possible death of Robert

Deaths Dec 1875 
 
CAMPION    Robert    32   
Louth    7a   383
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 21:25 GMT (UK)
Sorry Groom just looked at it again, god your quick....
Thankyou
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 21:29 GMT (UK)
Sorry Groom just looked at it again, god your quick....
Thankyou

It's just knowing where to look.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 21:32 GMT (UK)
I was also struggling with the son John Charles Scott, I know you mentioned earlier that the children were with another family, is there a connection Inlaws/Outlaws ? Where would you suggest I look next for John Charles ?
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 21:38 GMT (UK)
I don't actually think that they are with the other family, I think it has been transcribed incorrectly and they have been grouped with the next door neighbour by mistake. If you look at the actual census image it is a separate household. I imagine that they are living there together while their mother Sarah is working as a housekeeper elsewhere in the town.
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 21:47 GMT (UK)
Here's John Charles in 1891, married with children

RG12; Piece: 2627; Folio: 33; Page: 15  Winterton


John Charles Scott   49   Grocer                                                      Amcotts, Lincolnshire
Mary Ann Scott           49                                                          Newton, Lincolnshire
Albert Scott            21                                                         Winterton, Lincolnshire
Julia Scott                   19                                                          Winterton, Lincolnshire
Jessie Burton            19    niece                                              Winterton, Lincolnshire
Williams Rosa             83   Father-in-law                                   Thorney, Nottinghamshire
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 21:53 GMT (UK)
John Charles's death


JOHN CHARLES SCOTT
Birth year   1843
Age   56
Death March quarter 1899
Glandford Brigg
Volume   7A   Page   433



Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 21:58 GMT (UK)
Here is his marriage

John Charles Scott
Marriage date   25 May 1865
Winterton, Lincoln, England
Father's  name    John  Scott
Spouse's first name(s)   Maria
Spouse's last name   Brighton
Spouse's father's name   Richard Brighton
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Thursday 05 March 15 22:03 GMT (UK)
Groom are you saying the earlier post J.C.Scott spouse was a Maria & not Mary Ann ? Could this be type error ?
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 22:07 GMT (UK)
I think it is either a transcription error in the census, or perhaps she called herself Mary Ann rather than Maria, my relatives were always changing names or using middle names. Luckily John Charles Scott uses both his names on all records!  ;D
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 22:11 GMT (UK)
I've looked at several records for this marriage and they all give her name as Maria

Freebmd  http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

Marriages Jun 1865   
 
Brighton    Maria        
Scott    John Charles       
Glanford B.    7a   1419
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 22:21 GMT (UK)
She calls herself Mary Ann in 1881 as well:    RG11; Piece: 3286; Folio: 5; Page: 4


 Oh hang on - something strange here, look at 1871, especially the difference in her birth place and age. I wonder if Maria died and John then lived with Mary Ann and she just called herself Scott?

RG10; Piece: 3431; Folio: 9; Page: 12
Winterton, Lincolnshire

John C Scott   29 Mill wright                             Amcotts, Lincolnshire
Maria Scott   27                                            Mettingham, Suffolk
Walter Scott   5                                              Winterton, Lincolnshire
John Scott      2                                              Winterton, Lincolnshire
Albert Scott   1                                              Winterton, Lincolnshire
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Thursday 05 March 15 22:27 GMT (UK)
Looks as if she did die

Deaths Dec 1878   
SCOTT    Maria    35    Glanford B.    7a   439
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Friday 06 March 15 07:11 GMT (UK)
Thanks again Groom for clearing that up, I did think something was not quite right, I did remember something from 3 years ago, and think that his second wife was Mary Ann Bristow. There is a lot to be said for backing up ALL findings..
Thanks again

John
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Friday 06 March 15 08:20 GMT (UK)
Just come across an old post from 2013, I am afraid I might have jumped the proverbal gun, In my quest to find out about a John Scott & family, his son John Charles Scott wed Twice the first being a Maria , she died Dec 1878 Winterton, J.C. Scott then wed again Mary Ann ( I did not actually get her maiden name) because I had a surname already in my head from a previous search I assumed it was Bristow, however his father John Scott`s dad was wed to a Mary Ann Bristow back in 1818, so can anyone please put me right with J.C.Scott second wife ( after 1878) and if the couple had any other children.

Thanks
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Friday 06 March 15 10:19 GMT (UK)
That 1865 marriage was the only one I could find for him. Maria died in 1878 and from the 1891 there are no young children with John and Mary Ann, so possibly they didn't have any.
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Friday 06 March 15 10:49 GMT (UK)
Did you Groom have any thoughts on my earlier post ?
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Friday 06 March 15 12:04 GMT (UK)
It doesn't look as if they did have children - this is them in 1881, 3 years after Maria died - all those children must be hers. 1891, doesn't show any other children either. So if they did have children, it doesn't look as if they survived.

RG11; Piece: 3286; Folio: 5; Page: 4
 
John Charles Scott   39                         Amcott, Lincoln
Mary Ann Scott           39                         Newton, Lincoln
Albert Scott           11                         Winterton, Lincoln
Julia Scott                     9                         Winterton, Lincoln
Alice Walch           16 servant              Winteringham, Lincoln

No marriages between 1878 and 1891.
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Friday 06 March 15 12:10 GMT (UK)
Groom did you manage to come across a maiden name for Mary Ann ?


John
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Friday 06 March 15 12:24 GMT (UK)
Sorry no. The problem will be if they never married or had children there will be no records to show a maiden name.

I'll have a look in earlier cenuses later and see if I can pick her up via her place of birth and age using just her first name. 
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: James2you on Friday 06 March 15 12:34 GMT (UK)
In my earlier post , I mentioned that I had a Mary Ann Bristow wed to another, moving forward to Sarah daughter of Sarah & John Scott, in Sarah`s household you mentioned there was a lodger William Bristows (I think).
Do you think it would be of benefit to check him out & see if a Mary Ann shows up.

Something at the back of my mind (probably just saw dust)

Be in touch
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Friday 06 March 15 16:23 GMT (UK)
That was William Bristow Scott born 1823, Spridlington. I'll check him in a minute.

Look what we both missed from that 1891 census  ::) ::)
RG12; Piece: 2627; Folio: 33; Page: 15  Winterton


John Charles Scott   49   Grocer                                                      Amcotts, Lincolnshire
Mary Ann Scott           49                                                          Newton, Lincolnshire
Albert Scott            21                                                         Winterton, Lincolnshire
Julia Scott                   19                                                          Winterton, Lincolnshire
Jessie Burton            19    niece                                              Winterton, Lincolnshire
Williams Rosa             83   Father-in-law                                   Thorney, Nottinghamshire

We know he wasn't John Charles's father in law from his first marriage, so he must be Mary Ann's father! I'll see if I can find him in earlier cenuses. I would suspect from her age that Mary Ann had been married before.
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Friday 06 March 15 16:38 GMT (UK)
I think this is William in 1861 - right age and place of birth. They are also living in Newton, which is where Mary Ann said she was born. In 1861, she would be 19, so probably a servant somewhere.

RG 9; Piece: 2411; Folio: 63; Page: 6
Newton on Trent

William Rose        53     Shepherd                      Thorney, Nottinghamshire
Elizabeth Rose        47                                         Eagle, Lincolnshire
William Rose        21                                         Newton, Lincolnshire
Charles Rose        11                                         Newton, Lincolnshire
Rebecca Rose          7                                         Newton, Lincolnshire
Frank Henry Rose   4                                        Newton, Lincolnshire
Title: Re: John Scott 1820/1821 Gate Burton
Post by: groom on Friday 06 March 15 18:09 GMT (UK)
This could be a first marriage for Mary Ann Rose (Rosa)

 John Hibbert
 Mary Ann Rose
 Date:   26 May 1861
 Gainsborough, Lincoln, England
Father's Name:   James Hibbert
Spouse's Father's Name:   William Rose

Newton came under the Gainsborough registration district.