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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: truebritmega on Saturday 07 March 15 14:49 GMT (UK)
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Hello everyone... Im finally trying to work through My smiths again and Im after a William Smith, c1832... Censuses show him born Netherton, Worcestershire
His wife... was a Parthena (theres a few variations of that name) Carless, b 1832
Anyone? anything?
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Hi I can see a large family including a William Smith aged 17 with parents William & Ann in Netherton Hill, Dudley?
Census ref HO107/2033/387/5
Keyboard86
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ahhh ty.. looks it up (cos I never did learn how to work out those references lo... no I tell a lie, I did once.. and forgot lol)...
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;D Scroll down 1851 census until you see Piece /Folio/Page put in numbers shown, also try adding surname Smith.
Keyboard86
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hmmm ok... looks lol
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hmmm ok... looks lol
;D I am not too au fait with modern parlance, but what on earth does this mean?!
Keyboard86
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Ahh sorry, bad habit of mine...it means laugh out loud when as a text...another way of saying haha or hehe and that fam does look possible btw (doesn't admit old thicko here still couldn't see how do do that folio thing on the search thing)
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Marriage 15th May 1853 St Thomas Dudley
William Smith bach. furnaceman no father's name
Parthena Carless spins. Father John -engineer -deceased
Witnesses James + Ellen Parkes
All made X mark
Jackie
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You may already have this info but if not..
1861 census RG9/2061 folio 74 page 13
Church road Dudley Worcs.
William Smith 26 furnace lab/
Pashena 28
John 6
Elizb 4
Thomas 2
Martha 2mths All born Dudley
Lodging with Phebe Carless (Parthena's mother)
Jackie
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Ahh ty Jacqueline.... I had found the marriage, but not w the witnesses, did u find those on freereg? I'd looked thru there and couldn't find it lol....
Looks like I might have reached the end of the line w finding williams birth n parents? :-(
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Your netherton hills lookin the best bet so far tho keyboard?
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Hi again, the only thing that would concern me if it formed part of my family tree, is the lack of fathers name at marriage for William?
Keyboard86
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I'm not sure how to go about getting further now w William or if its even possible☹
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Hi again, ok a hard surname certainly, but try other avenues in eg the 1841 census, their is this William that may need to be looked into perhaps?
William Massey 35
Mary 35
Jane 16
William 10
Agnes 5
John 4
Fanny 0
William Smith 7
Residing at Snow Hill, Dudley
Census ref HO107/1196/ 2/32 / 13
The Massey family in 1851 no William Smith HO107/2032/133/53
Keyboard86
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not really sure how I can .. hmmm make sure whichj ones mine ... (ty for the 1841 one.. ) seems without records, I wont be able to say for sure which one is... ?...
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there is an 1851 one as well... where he is listed as "cousin"...
John Cole 41
Eliza Cole 39
James Cole 16
Richd Cole 14
Moses Cole 11
John Cole 8
William Smith 19
Was thinking.. maybe if his parents were already dead by his wedding in 53... he would be living w other fam? and a cousins place might make sense?
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Hi again, a bit old to be a Scholar at 19, my site have him as aged 12 if you look at the original then you work out what age he is!
Census ref HO107/2032/484/49
Keyboard86
PS you do realise with no father's name at marriage then William is possibly illegitimate?
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Genuki says……
"NETHERTON, a village and chapelry in the parish of Dudley St. Thomas
might this be his christening
28 Jul 1833 St Thomas Dudley Worcestershire
William Smith mother Mary Smith
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV93-HMZ
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well that one sounds very likely huh? ty Lady Hawk :)
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Hi again, seeing the witnesses at the marriage of William were James & Ellen Parkes, I wondered what connection they possibly had to the couple, a marriage of a George Parkes to Mary Smith 31st January 1841 St Thomas, Dudley could be it?
Needs checking out?
Keyboard86
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I think... I made the breakthrough yesterday...
On the 1851 census, 2 years before they marry, Pathenas family are all living in Windmill End Rowley Regis ( this is the same place as Windmill End, Dudley Ibelieve?...)
The marriage, shows witnesses as a James and Ellen Parkes.
In the same, 1851 Census, there is also a James and Ellen Parkes living in... Windmill End... James being listed as a Furnaceman, same trade as William
We know William was born about ... 1835...
Well I have now also found a William Smith, b 1832... Windmill End :)
With parents of Thomas and Hannah :)
Sounds highly likely huh?
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Hi Gang
Don't forget there are 2 Netherton's in Worcestershire one was near Dudley & the other down near Pershore the other end of the county just to throw a spanner in the works ;D
All the vert best
Phil
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LOL... I hate you!!! (not really) and no I didnt know lol thank you :)
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I think... I made the breakthrough yesterday...
On the 1851 census, 2 years before they marry, Pathenas family are all living in Windmill End Rowley Regis ( this is the same place as Windmill End, Dudley Ibelieve?...)
The marriage, shows witnesses as a James and Ellen Parkes.
In the same, 1851 Census, there is also a James and Ellen Parkes living in... Windmill End... James being listed as a Furnaceman, same trade as William
Possible connection if this is the same James & Ellen from 1851 census
1861 St Johns Street
James Parkes Head 34 Dudley, Worcestershire occ Furnace Labourer
Ellen Parkes Wife 34 Dudley, Worcestershire
Johanah Parkes Daughter 9 Dudley, Worcestershire
John Henry Parkes Son 7 Rowley, Staffordshire
Phebe Parkes Daughter 5 Rowley, Staffordshire
Henry Parkes Son 4 Rowley, Staffordshire
James Parkes Son 1 Dudley, Worcestershire
RG09 Piece/Folio: 2061 / 70
Joanna Parkes Christening 08 Feb 1852 St Thomas Dudley Worcester
Born 12 Nov 1851
Father's Name James Parkes Mother's Name Ellen
from GRO indexes which gives mmn
Joanna PARKES mmn CARELESS
1851 D Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 18 Page 275
John Henry PARKES mmn CARELESS
1854 J Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 114
Phebe PARKES mmn CARELESS
1856 M Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 146
marriage from family search (need to check original for father's names etc...)
James Parkes to Hellen Carless 03 Nov 1850 Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester
Dec 1850 Dudley 18 413 (FreeBMD)
Parkes James
and on same page
Careless Hellen
Both the Smiths and Parkes married at St Thomas' Dudley and also christening their respective children there
As there's no father's name on 1853 m/c for William Smith to Parthena Carless
I think he was probably illegitmate
might this be his christening
28 Jul 1833 St Thomas Dudley Worcestershire
William Smith mother Mary Smith
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV93-HMZ
Did they name any children Mary?
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Pheobe Careless 40-44 Worcestershire
Eliza Careless 15-19 Worcestershire
Ellen Careless 13 Worcestershire
Caroline Careless 11 Worcestershire
Patience Careless 8 Worcestershire
Henry Careless 6 Worcestershire
Benjn Careless 4 Worcestershire
Pheobe Careless 2 Worcestershire
HO107 Piece/Folio: 1196/42 page 12
from family search
Careless Phebe Jun 1839 Dudley 18 258 (FreeBMD)
CARELESS, PHEBE mmn WAKELAM (GRO indexes)
1839 J Quarter in DUDLEY UNION Volume 18 Page 258
Edit
John Careless Phebe Wakeliam 14 Oct 1822 St. Thomas, Dudley, Worcester
both single
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Yup... James Pakes turns out to be Helen, Pathenas sisters... husband :)
dont think I'll ever know "for certain2 tho, which william smith... is mine :( thinks thats the end of the track for my smiths :(