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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: truebritmega on Saturday 07 March 15 14:49 GMT (UK)

Title: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Saturday 07 March 15 14:49 GMT (UK)
Hello everyone... Im finally trying to work through My smiths again and Im after a William Smith, c1832... Censuses show him born Netherton, Worcestershire

His wife... was a Parthena (theres a few variations of that name) Carless, b 1832

Anyone? anything?
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: keyboard86 on Saturday 07 March 15 14:59 GMT (UK)
Hi I can see a large family including a William Smith aged 17 with parents William & Ann in Netherton Hill, Dudley?
Census ref HO107/2033/387/5
Keyboard86
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Saturday 07 March 15 15:17 GMT (UK)
ahhh ty.. looks it up (cos I never did learn how to work out those references lo... no I tell a lie, I did once.. and forgot lol)...
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: keyboard86 on Saturday 07 March 15 15:43 GMT (UK)
 ;D Scroll down 1851 census until you see Piece /Folio/Page put in numbers shown,  also try adding surname Smith.
Keyboard86
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Saturday 07 March 15 16:06 GMT (UK)
hmmm ok... looks lol
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: keyboard86 on Saturday 07 March 15 16:59 GMT (UK)
hmmm ok... looks lol

 ;D I am not too au fait with modern parlance, but what on earth does this mean?!
Keyboard86

Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Sunday 08 March 15 01:06 GMT (UK)
Ahh sorry, bad habit of mine...it means laugh out loud when as a text...another way of saying haha or hehe and that fam does look possible btw (doesn't admit old thicko here still couldn't see how do do that folio thing on the search thing)
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: jacquelineve on Wednesday 11 March 15 10:00 GMT (UK)
Marriage 15th May 1853 St Thomas Dudley

William Smith  bach. furnaceman     no father's name
Parthena Carless spins.                    Father John -engineer -deceased
Witnesses James + Ellen Parkes
All made X mark

Jackie
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: jacquelineve on Wednesday 11 March 15 10:45 GMT (UK)
You may already have this info but if not..

1861 census RG9/2061   folio 74   page 13
Church road Dudley Worcs.
William   Smith  26   furnace lab/
Pashena           28
John                6
Elizb               4
Thomas           2
Martha            2mths   All born Dudley

Lodging with Phebe Carless (Parthena's mother)

Jackie
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Wednesday 11 March 15 12:30 GMT (UK)
Ahh ty Jacqueline.... I had found the marriage, but not w the witnesses, did u find those on freereg? I'd looked thru there and couldn't find it lol....

Looks like I might have reached the end of the line w finding williams birth n parents? :-(
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Wednesday 11 March 15 12:32 GMT (UK)
Your netherton hills lookin the best bet so far tho keyboard?
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 11 March 15 13:55 GMT (UK)
Hi again, the only thing that would concern me if it formed part of my family tree, is the lack of fathers name at marriage for William?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Wednesday 11 March 15 14:09 GMT (UK)
I'm not sure how to go about getting further now w William or if its even possible☹
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 11 March 15 15:05 GMT (UK)
Hi again, ok a hard surname certainly, but try other avenues in eg the 1841 census, their is this William that may need to be looked into perhaps?

William Massey 35
Mary 35
Jane 16
William 10
Agnes 5
John 4
Fanny 0
William Smith 7
Residing at Snow Hill, Dudley
Census ref HO107/1196/ 2/32 / 13

The Massey family in 1851 no William Smith HO107/2032/133/53
Keyboard86
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Wednesday 11 March 15 15:20 GMT (UK)
not really sure how I can .. hmmm make sure whichj ones mine ... (ty for the 1841 one.. ) seems without records, I wont be able to say for sure which one is... ?...
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Wednesday 11 March 15 15:24 GMT (UK)
there is an 1851 one as well... where he is listed as "cousin"...

John Cole   41
Eliza Cole   39
James Cole   16
Richd Cole   14
Moses Cole   11
John Cole   8
William Smith   19


Was thinking.. maybe if his parents were already dead by his wedding in 53... he would be living w other fam? and a cousins place might make sense?
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 11 March 15 17:41 GMT (UK)
Hi again, a bit old to be a Scholar at 19, my site have him as aged 12 if you look at the original then you work out what age he is!
Census ref HO107/2032/484/49
Keyboard86

PS you do realise with no father's name at marriage then William is possibly illegitimate?
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 11 March 15 17:55 GMT (UK)
Genuki says……
"NETHERTON, a village and chapelry in the parish of Dudley St. Thomas

might this be his christening

28 Jul 1833 St Thomas Dudley Worcestershire
William Smith mother Mary Smith
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV93-HMZ


Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Friday 13 March 15 14:11 GMT (UK)
well that one sounds very likely huh? ty Lady Hawk :)
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 13 March 15 14:25 GMT (UK)
Hi again, seeing the witnesses at the marriage of William were James & Ellen Parkes, I wondered what connection they possibly had to the couple, a marriage of a George Parkes to Mary Smith 31st January 1841 St Thomas, Dudley could be it?
Needs checking out?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Saturday 15 September 18 14:53 BST (UK)
I think... I made the breakthrough yesterday...

On the 1851 census, 2 years before they marry, Pathenas family are all living in Windmill End Rowley Regis ( this is the same place as Windmill End, Dudley Ibelieve?...)

The marriage, shows witnesses as a James and Ellen Parkes.
In the same, 1851 Census, there is also a James and Ellen Parkes living in... Windmill End... James being listed as a Furnaceman, same trade as William

We know William was born about ... 1835...

Well I have now also found a William Smith, b 1832... Windmill End :)

With parents of Thomas and Hannah :)

Sounds highly likely huh?

Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: philheeks on Saturday 22 September 18 11:42 BST (UK)
Hi Gang

Don't forget there are 2 Netherton's in Worcestershire one was near Dudley & the other down near Pershore the other end of the county just to throw a spanner in the works  ;D

All the vert best

Phil
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Saturday 22 September 18 16:38 BST (UK)
LOL... I hate you!!! (not really) and no I didnt know lol thank you :)
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 23 September 18 15:25 BST (UK)
I think... I made the breakthrough yesterday...

On the 1851 census, 2 years before they marry, Pathenas family are all living in Windmill End Rowley Regis ( this is the same place as Windmill End, Dudley Ibelieve?...)

The marriage, shows witnesses as a James and Ellen Parkes.

In the same, 1851 Census, there is also a James and Ellen Parkes living in... Windmill End... James being listed as a Furnaceman, same trade as William


Possible connection if this is the same James & Ellen from 1851 census

1861 St Johns Street
James Parkes Head 34 Dudley, Worcestershire occ Furnace Labourer
Ellen Parkes Wife 34 Dudley, Worcestershire
Johanah Parkes Daughter 9 Dudley, Worcestershire
John Henry Parkes Son 7 Rowley, Staffordshire
Phebe Parkes Daughter 5 Rowley, Staffordshire
Henry Parkes Son 4 Rowley, Staffordshire
James Parkes Son 1 Dudley, Worcestershire
RG09 Piece/Folio:   2061 / 70

Joanna Parkes  Christening 08 Feb 1852 St Thomas Dudley Worcester
Born 12 Nov 1851
Father's Name   James Parkes Mother's Name   Ellen

from GRO indexes which gives mmn

Joanna PARKES    mmn  CARELESS     
1851 D Quarter in DUDLEY  Volume 18  Page 275   

John Henry PARKES mmn CARELESS
1854  J Quarter in DUDLEY  Volume 06C  Page 114

Phebe PARKES mmn CARELESS
1856  M Quarter in DUDLEY  Volume 06C  Page 146

marriage from family search (need to check original for father's names etc...)
James Parkes to Hellen Carless 03 Nov 1850 Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester

Dec 1850    Dudley    18   413 (FreeBMD)
Parkes    James
and on same page
Careless    Hellen    

Both the Smiths and Parkes married at St Thomas' Dudley and also christening their respective children there

As there's no father's name on 1853 m/c for William Smith to Parthena Carless
I think he was probably illegitmate


might this be his christening

28 Jul 1833 St Thomas Dudley Worcestershire
William Smith mother Mary Smith
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV93-HMZ


Did they name any children Mary?





Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 23 September 18 15:35 BST (UK)
Pheobe Careless      40-44   Worcestershire
Eliza Careless      15-19   Worcestershire
Ellen Careless      13   Worcestershire
Caroline Careless   11   Worcestershire
Patience Careless    8   Worcestershire
Henry Careless       6   Worcestershire
Benjn Careless      4   Worcestershire
Pheobe Careless      2   Worcestershire
HO107 Piece/Folio:   1196/42 page 12
from family search

Careless    Phebe  Jun 1839 Dudley    18   258 (FreeBMD)

CARELESS, PHEBE   mmn    WAKELAM      (GRO indexes)
1839  J Quarter in DUDLEY UNION  Volume 18  Page 258   

Edit

John Careless Phebe Wakeliam 14 Oct 1822 St. Thomas, Dudley, Worcester
both single
Title: Re: William Smith c1832, Parents?
Post by: truebritmega on Sunday 23 September 18 16:05 BST (UK)
Yup... James Pakes turns out to be Helen, Pathenas sisters... husband :)

dont think I'll ever know "for certain2 tho, which william smith... is mine :( thinks thats the end of the track for my smiths :(