RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: Nova67 on Thursday 12 March 15 01:38 GMT (UK)
-
I am wondering about this occupational interest and what it would have been used for:
Henry Johns, Hamoaze Dock. His late father, Henry Johns, was contracted with Edward Hutchins to supply fresh and salt water sand. Asks to be allowed to complete the contract in his own name and with Mr Hutchins.
Record from 15 June 1731 at The National Archives, Kew:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13411434
Any thoughts
-
Maybe building blocks or something in the building dept, perhaps for mortar-
Perhaps glassblowing, probably others too, but if this man had contracts to fulfil, my guess would be something in trade!
Jeanne :)
-
Thanks. I wondered if it was anything specific to the naval docks? I have no idea! I did read something about spreading sand on farming land in the Tamar.
-
perhaps ballast onboard the navy vessels.....
Add
Have you searched for any initial advertisement calling for tenders .....
Cheers, JM
-
Spreading on icy or muddy or roads - tracks - things like that!
Golly, you have me scratching my head now!
Jeanne ???
-
Being that they were at what is now called Devonport it could have been a Naval contract.
-
sand ..... fresh water and salt water
holy stone
scrubbing decks of navy ships
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holystone
-
Sand was and is still used for a hundred and one uses, from casting objects such as bells to spreading on roads with gravel to make a firm compact surface.
It was also used in building, glass making sand is also used in horticulture to provide drainage in heavy soil, it has always been an important though plentiful commodity.
Cheers
Guy
-
I am wondering about this occupational interest and what it would have been used for:
Henry Johns, Hamoaze Dock. His late father, Henry Johns, was contracted with Edward Hutchins to supply fresh and salt water sand. Asks to be allowed to complete the contract in his own name and with Mr Hutchins.
Record from 15 June 1731 at The National Archives, Kew:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13411434
Any thoughts
As your link leads back to Admiralty Records, perhaps you could consider making email enquiry re sand needs of the Admiralty in the 1730s
http://www.rmg.co.uk/researchers/library/research-guides/the-royal-navy/research-guide-b6-the-royal-navy-administrative-records
Cheers, JM
-
Maybe making moulds for casting cannon and cannonballs, plus other cast metal implements etc.
-
My daughter lives in Portsmouth, her house dates circa 1900, when doing any diy that involves the walls it has been found that an awful lot of pebbles and beach type materials are mixed in.
-
Thank you to everyone for replies so far. Ballast and glass making I had considered. Holystone I did not know of.
I will think on...
It was the fresh and salt water that was interesting too.
-
Maybe making moulds for casting cannon and cannonballs, plus other cast metal implements etc.
That's an interesting suggestion too! Thanks.
Seems to definitely be a contract with the navy. Now I have looked properly at it again.
-
Sand could, and was, used as ballast in ships but only if no other materials were available due to several problems with its use. Especially with a warship I think it would be only used as a last resort.
-
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01exo/
Mmm, the start is on the previous page, you need to scroll up.
It also looks like the Admiralty used pig iron [if you scroll down.]
-
I wonder if the sand was from fresh water ie river sand,and from salt water ie sea sand.
Can`t think of a use for salty sand, unless sodium glass was made from this.
Sea sand, being salty would have not been used for construction I don`t think as it would attract moisture into the fabric of the building.
Some was perhaps used to soak up gore on the decks during engagements but not vast quantities.
Oooer!On that grisly note, Goodnight. Viktoria.
-
Would the sea sand be used in the salt grit bins dotted around neighbourhoods in frost and snow prone areas. I don't really know much about those except for seeing them in the UK when touring!
We don't have them in the area of NZ where I live, but they may use them in the colder regions!
Jeanne :)
-
Would the sea sand be used in the salt grit bins dotted around neighbourhoods in frost and snow prone areas. I don't really know much about those except for seeing them in the UK when touring!
We don't have them in the area of NZ where I live, but they may use them in the colder regions!
Jeanne :)
1731 ? Not many cars on the roads then, if you could find a recognizable road. ::) ;D
-
I am wondering about this occupational interest and what it would have been used for:
Henry Johns, Hamoaze Dock. His late father, Henry Johns, was contracted with Edward Hutchins to supply fresh and salt water sand. Asks to be allowed to complete the contract in his own name and with Mr Hutchins.
Record from 15 June 1731 at The National Archives, Kew:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13411434
Any thoughts
As your link leads back to Admiralty Records, perhaps you could consider making email enquiry re sand needs of the Admiralty in the 1730s
http://www.rmg.co.uk/researchers/library/research-guides/the-royal-navy/research-guide-b6-the-royal-navy-administrative-records
Have made a general enquiry to the RMG. Did enquire about getting a quote from the National Archives for the record I found, but got a complicated reply - not a straightforward procedure for that one.
-
Whoopsy! Red Face!
😊
-
I imagine that huge amounts of sand back then were used as huge amounts of sand are today in terms of building.
There are lots of old (1700s - 1800s) newspaper references relating to the trade in fresh water sand, from my quick glance, most in the context of a building material (though a few indicating horticultural use). Hence lots and lots of advertisements from people wanting or offering for sale fresh water sand and other associated building materials (eg. gravel, stone, lime, etc.).
An article from 1843 makes reference to the "pernicious effects of brine sand on buildings", citing this as the reason why builders should take care to use fresh water sand. Several other articles corroborate this, a 1745 article makes reference to a salt water sand and lime mortar mixture not withstanding frost.
By contrast, references to salt water sand are much fewer, there's an early 1800s indication that it and lime were used to manure and there are mid 1800s articles to corroborate its use as ship ballast (and indeed, setting out the dangers of same).
-
Thank you very much for your interesting research Gaffy :). I do appreciate it and all responses. If I get anything back from Royal Museums Greenwich shall post too.
Kind Regards
Nova67
-
Heard back from the lovely library staff at RMG:
The record reference ADM 106/281-1299 concern records of dockyards and other Naval Yards.
(Assumes) "that fresh and saltwater sand supplied by contractors to the Admiralty was necessary for industrial processes conducted in the various Naval Dockyards – such as for the construction of the docks – as well as to create ‘ballasts’ (the ‘additional weight carried in a ship to give her stability’ – see p. 55 of the ‘The Oxford Companion to ships and the sea)".
Some references to Docklands books and a suggestion to visit the Caird library, or hire an independent researcher.
I may also get lucky as their is a joint volunteer project on to catalogue letters:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1815
Nova67 (in Oz)
But 3636 volume(s)!!! I note.