RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: redmr2red on Thursday 12 March 15 03:10 GMT (UK)

Title: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: redmr2red on Thursday 12 March 15 03:10 GMT (UK)
I have so many people on A**y who have lifted information from my tree and got it wrong, it's not funny.   >:(   >:(   Repeated requests for them to correct it, or prove their research have gone unanswered.

I just hope people are not copying the wrong information to their trees and citing this and that tree as a reference.  And now who's can trust my tree, or anyone else's, for that matter.

Red
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Thursday 12 March 15 03:37 GMT (UK)
Are you referring to the commercial website, Ancestry ?

Cheers,  JM

Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: redmr2red on Thursday 12 March 15 03:44 GMT (UK)
Yes, wasn't too sure about naming it here.
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Thursday 12 March 15 04:02 GMT (UK)
Well, I don't have my family history records on any submitted tree on any commercial website, but if I did, I would not be including a lot of details, and I would certainly not be including anyone from a generation or two before me, as there are some rellies from those generations who are still alive, so they are entitled to their personal privacy.   Perhaps I am old fashioned, but to me, family history is about researching deceased ancestors, rather than seeking out those who are currently living. 

So if someone wanted to 'nick' my own research and re-label it as though it was their own, then I see no reason to make it easy for them to 'nick it' by publishing it online on any of the commercial websites.

On the other hand, if someone has nicked information about any of my own deceased direct ancestors, whether they are actually somehow connected to me through a shared ancestor or not,  makes me concerned about if they are actually seeking access to my own identity, or perhaps the identity of any of my living rellies.    And if they are doing that, in such a backdoor way, do I have concerns?  YES, then I do. 

But I cannot see that Ancestry or any of the other commercial websites, who all seem to have rules and terms and conditions about not displaying the names of the living are causing the initial issue. I would expect though that they should re-act promptly to requests about privacy of the living.  I don't see what they can do about those who want to copy your research as though it is their own, or worse still the poor form where you contact your fellow members and ask for confirmation of their own independent research when you can show that that research is likely to be authored by yourself.

As tactfully as possible, may I gently mention that those who are already deceased are not offended by what is published about them after their deaths.

So, in that respect, I think our own worst enemy is not Ancestry or the commercial websites like Ancestry, but rather the popularity of our shared hobby, and the lack of publicised standards for the publication of that research on the web.




Cheers,  JM   (Edited to add two final paragraphs)

Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: Yonks Ago on Thursday 12 March 15 04:11 GMT (UK)
The very reason I dont put my tree's on line, I have paid to prove my work, and so many grab with out even checking the full content.
Cheers
Yonks
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 12 March 15 04:16 GMT (UK)

But I cannot see that Ancestry or any of the other commercial websites, who all seem to have rules and terms and conditions about not displaying the names of the living are causing the initial issue.

Cheers,  JM   

Perhaps they do have rules about not displaying names of the living on Ancestry trees, however their record collections do contain names of the living, as do collections on the other big commercial site, FindMyPast.  :)
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Thursday 12 March 15 04:18 GMT (UK)
Yes, I agree Ruskie, and I can clearly see my own name on the uploaded NSW Electoral Rolls.   Just as I can see the GRO indexes for very recent UK births, ..... 

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 12 March 15 04:21 GMT (UK)
Yes, me too JM - only up to 1980 thank goodness. I am also included in some recent events in the UK which I am less than thrilled about.  ::)

Back to the OP's original gripe, which is a very regular topic on RootsChat (though generally not on specific to the Australia board) - the only way to prevent this is not to make your tree public. It is that simple. :)
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 12 March 15 04:28 GMT (UK)


 those who are already deceased are not offended by what is published about them after their deaths.

 

Quite so  ;D

We do not own our deceased ancestors. Anyone in the world has  the right to claim connections if they choose.

If you wish your information to remain private, be very conservative in what you reveal to others, whether by published family tree or to those who approach you.

The thinking and logic of tree-makers is not the concern of Ancestry and why should it be?

 Those putting trees online listing deceased forebears through the Ancestry facility, are acting within the law, regardless of their sources.

Sue
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Thursday 12 March 15 04:30 GMT (UK)
So I have just checked NSW BDM online indexes.... free to search, and of course, a commercial website as I could order and pay online for NSW BDM certificates...

So I can clearly see the given and surnames of several of my ancestors, whom I recall vividly from my childhood.  These are people who have been dead for more than 30 years.  I can see the names of their parents on that index too.    I can also see the names of several of my schoolfriends who were tragically killed in a multicar accident during my schoolyears, more than 30 years ago.  In many instances their parents are still living, yet those parents names are listed on that index, free to search, not even needing a log in .... no subscriptions....

Then I look at Trove, another absolutely fantastic resource, ..... I can find many fairly current things about my ACT rellies and friends.... including engagement announcements from the 1990s .... I remember attending those functions with my husband and our families....  There's family history in those announcements .... one even has four generations of then living family in them.   I am quite sure that little did the very proud parents who provided that info to the newspapers then expect that one day within their own lifetimes, those papers would be freely available to anyone (no need for any subscriptions, or log on) anywhere in the globe to come across those images of the newspapers online.

Hence, I cannot 'blame' Ancestory or Find My Past or those commercial websites.  We as family history buffs need to take some responsibility, and we need to work towards some standards being developed to protect the research....  Yes, there's Australian copyright laws, yes, there's Privacy Laws, yes, there's T & C on the websites ..... but yes there's also copy and paste functions at the fingertips of any keyboard operator..... Should we 'blame' Bill Gates ....

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 12 March 15 04:35 GMT (UK)
Well said JM. :)

I doubt that a few years ago, anyone who published an announcement in a newspaper could have imagined that it would be widely available for anyone anywhere to read. Would they care? I don't know.
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Thursday 12 March 15 04:40 GMT (UK)
To me, it does not matter if they care or not, what matters is that those who may have ulterior purposes may strive to obtain sufficient info about a living person's background, to then approach the vulnerable, or the elderly, and seek to ingrain themselves in their lives, and then steal or otherwise take without informed permission the very things that those people own, including their own identities.  So the very objective of our Privacy Laws becomes the very tool used to betray those objectives.  Now, that definitely concerns me.   

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Thursday 12 March 15 04:43 GMT (UK)
I am quite passionate about these issues.   If I am offending anyone who reads these posts, sorry for offending you, but please do become concerned (alert but not alarmed) for your neighbours, your elderly friends, or anyone who is vulnerable.  They too have the right to privacy and to our credit, we can respect their privacy and at the same time, protect their identity too.  We just need to care, and to treat them as we would want to be treated too.

And a huge apology from me to redmr2red for highjacking the thread. 

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: fastfusion on Thursday 12 March 15 05:06 GMT (UK)
It seems like just the only the other day we rootschatterers were talking about this matter of the wrong infomation from trees......   Well...     no doubt you all know how I feel about the trees and I dont rely on them.........   nor do I 'c & p" from them.......    HOWEVER.......>>>>>>>

there is one essential annoying fact that has plagued my research over the years, which some said " thats half the fun",     I am very sick and tired of fragmentation indexing on any sub site and some of the free sites.,,, in an effect to procure extra income for the sub sites., or even the fh societies.

As most folk come to reality of the humble English village atmosphere we learn that whole parish transcripts usually in pdf are required to a] check phonetic spellings, b] check sub linages, c] to get occupations, witnesses, and rectors or churchwardens etc etc.

To boost my point of late, I have been doing a series of genealogies in Gloucestershire.....  humbly I was sent materials pertaining to the records of 2 local fh societies who I not mention.   On all data sent which was not chronological or by the parish, or by the logical sense of order....  the data was compared to other web sites whereas finite details were found to enhance the entries, yet, in the most part one does know if any marriage was by banns or by licence... Similiarly the deaths of the 1800 to 1812 period showed in the most No indicators of age.........   and yet these groups or bodies are releasing data through cdrom or other andiquated means.

I am going to advocate that really the time has come where we genealogists need to have entire parish registers in complete form in one solid set of pdfs not the willy nilly over the shop method being used.     

It is extremely unprofessional to have the current method and any preference from me is for a subscription site to pertain in its holding COMPLETE parish transcriptions in pdf searchable formats not half ass willy nilly excel documents that arent searchable not practical....... or we have a website that has the visual imagery pdf of entire microfilms so we can seek out the images upon using pdf transcriptions......

the other thing that bugs the heck out of me is .....    the churchwarden or minute books seem to have been chained to the bookcases of archives and are not for public viewing...... 

take for a moment that 99 percent of us live thousands of miles  or kilometres away from these places and most in some perspective hope to enjoy visiting the ancestral homelands would it not be a better means to an end to present your genealogical materials in a way that stops us wasting manpower and money of fragmented indexes so we can actually spend money visiting the countries counties villages and homelands to improve upon the tourism and local commercial revenues that keep the places alive in the first place.

fusion
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: fastfusion on Thursday 12 March 15 05:15 GMT (UK)
redmr2red>>>>     i wouldnt be concerned about the mentioning of the darn website that we pay high subscription for use of..... remember these organisations are making commercial profit from materials held in trust in the public domain...       and if we dont stand up for consumerism then there is no sense of democratic right to voice our opinions in the hope these mobs of capitalists will ever improve their services.
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Thursday 12 March 15 05:35 GMT (UK)
I am going to advocate that really the time has come where we genealogists need to have entire parish registers in complete form in one solid set of pdfs not the willy nilly over the shop method being used.     

Or course, that would be ideal.  But we do need to remember that parish registers are NOT public property.  They are private property and are shared at the discretion of the owner.   Parish registers are Church property. 

So, for example, I am always delighted to mention that among the NSW Resources here at RChat is the following images of the parish registers of the Christ Church Cathedral, Hexham (Newcastle) NSW.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0


Baptisms, Marriages, Burials, Christ Church Cathedral, Newcastle
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606066769147/ 1820 1899 Family Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605008173551/ 1826 1837 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157604433014652/ 1837 1838 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605132739200/ 1839 1861 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605674610949/ 1856 1868 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605785759029/ 1869 1885 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605802132868/ 1885 1897 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606197590347/ 1899 1913 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605928662968/ 1913 1914 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606308436455/ 1914 1916 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606323070651/ 1916 1918 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606450662513/ 1918 1929 Marriage Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606952230042/ 1929 1936 Marriages Register

Here in those images you will see the various hands of the clergy, the bride, the groom, the witnesses to marriages, the names of the deceased, the names of new borns, and the family history sheets too.   Sometimes the writing is easy to transcribe and other times, well .... ummm.... not so easy.   But these are family history documents and you can validate the BDMs from searching the NSW BDM online indexes. 

And yes, if only other Churches, including from that same denomination, but also other denominations were to be willing to share their parish registers ....  :)


Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: redmr2red on Thursday 12 March 15 05:51 GMT (UK)
My gripe is with a cousin who has attributed six children to my GGGrandmother from her second husband. So her tree now shows she had 8 children, not 2 and 6 step children, in fact her first husband does not get a mention.  Anyone seeing that can just copy it to their tree, making two trees showing the same information.  QED!!!!!

I've asked her to fix it but so far not even a response.

End rant!!!!!!😄
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Thursday 12 March 15 05:58 GMT (UK)
Is it possible that there is an option for "Comments" on these submitted trees?  If so, perhaps you could simply comment "please note that the following six children were fathered by .......... " and then list the children and their dates, and perhaps if you can then include your source .....  And as you note they were her step children, but their father does not get a mention, perhaps you could also gently note that these six are not her children, and so perhaps in your comments you can note their mum's name too ?

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: warncoort on Thursday 12 March 15 06:06 GMT (UK)
It is not the pay sites that are our enemy,it is those who believe their advertising and seek to assemble a tree back to Adam within a week.
Check any forum and you will find posters seeking help with "THE JONES FAMILY OF SYDNEY",obviously without making any effort themselves,assuming that all forums are just waiting to hand out the information.I have a public tree on Ancestry and i have made every endeavour to ensure its accuracy (some entries unsourced) but if others choose to cut and paste, there is nothing i can do.
I consider myself a serious researcher and would not use data from a public tree unless i could confirm information at the source.
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: judb on Thursday 12 March 15 07:27 GMT (UK)
I have made wonderful contacts and have extended my family tree to a much greater extent than I would have done just using my own resources.

I do not put anything up on my own tree which I have not personally checked at source.  There is space on Ancestry trees for alternate information to be added which is what I have had to do for a John MASON, with father also John MASON b abt 1826 because there are two baptisms at St Leonard Shoreditch within 8 months of each other and I cannot find a way to decide which one of these children is my 2g grandfather. (Two  different mothers,cannot specifically identify John in 1841, only his father mentioned on his death certificate!)

I view other trees with scepticism, treating them as clues rather than as fact - but sometimes such wonderful clues that can help unlock a brick wall or two.  I have also found photos on other trees which I would otherwise not have seen. 

I believe that I get very good value from my subscription but I do use it a lot.  There are more and more sources becoming available through both paid and free sites.

However, when I see that woman on the advertisement who just whips in the name and up comes all the info........................  ::)  >:( :( ;)  It's somewhat reminiscent of the WDYTYA where the subject of the program rolls into a record office an lo - they just happen to have the very thing being looked for.   :P

Judith



Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: lydiaann on Thursday 12 March 15 08:38 GMT (UK)
I, too, have 'suffered' from someone stealing from my site.  One person (not in Australia and not in the UK either) lifted whole rafts of information that I had struggled to find over 4 years of research.  It got to the point where photos of my late father-in-law - mostly taken by me or my husband - were placed into their tree, yet this man was a million and one twigs away from their family.  The same happened with a personal story that I had uploaded of my own mother; when challenged, they said 'I thought it was a historical document', which just goes to show that they took anything without reading it.  I have now privatized all 5 of my trees.  If I get a 'hint' of something allied to my antecedents, I check it out thoroughly and, even if I find it as a public document on one of the other free sites, I still check in with the person who uploaded it in the first place.  If I ask for a piece of information and receive permission to use it, I always  attribute the source.  It's only good manners to acknowledge someone else's effort and generosity. 
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: DavidG02 on Thursday 12 March 15 09:14 GMT (UK)
I have previously made comment that I don't treat online family trees (OFT) as gospel but as a pathway.

I understand the concerns of privacy that majm has and quite agree that it has never been easier to utilise identity theft.

BUT

I will take the opposite argument, and highlight the  one reason we are here on Rootschat... TO SHARE OUR KNOWLEDGE and to help others, so when I see a posted OFT I am glad because it gives me a signpost , it is someone sharing their knowledge , it is then up to me whether I follow that path with or without a light.

And if someone wishes to contact me and point me in the right direction, I will check and re-check , and then  amend if needed.

 :)
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: Ringrose on Thursday 12 March 15 09:24 GMT (UK)
I do not have my tree on Ancestry or anywhere but have contacted possible connections.In some cases the tree on line has gone terribly wrong and when Ive pointed it out some have changed it but so many ignore it.
How's this for a reply on Ancestry.Enquiring how my ggrandfather fitted into her tree

He was the third cousin3times removeds wife's aunts husbands greatgrandnephews wife's granddaughters husbands father......
Therefore no real relation
I don't even know how she worked out the confusing relationship
Ringrose
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: Neil Todd on Thursday 12 March 15 18:03 GMT (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D
"He was the third cousin3times removeds wife's aunts husbands greatgrandnephews wife's granddaughters husbands father......
Therefore no real relation"


Love it... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why do people do a tree with all the branches back to time in the mist, gees why do people use Ancestry anyway? Waste of money unless you have a pile of rellies in the States. Even then still a waste of dough. I no longer share my tree on Genes Reunited as all my mistakes are on my public tree. I have my own (no mistakes) and researched fully line with the first branch on it. I was very lucky though, as all the church records back to first one's of one county are online for free.

Neil
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Sunday 15 March 15 23:42 GMT (UK)
Some things at Ancestry do get me annoyed.   It is the poor transcribing skills (or lack of skill) demonstrated on some of their indexes for public records. 

As I am NSW centric, I have a fair idea of some of the spellings of various locations in NSW..... and of course how the spelling has changed over the decades. 

But, I am quite quite sure that " Neutral" in the attached example was NOT written as "NEWTRAL' which is the spelling offered by Ancestry.   Yes, of course I have informed them, and yes of course I believe I have given them more than sufficient time to correct their error  (about six weeks ago)

Name and Shame ?  why not  :) 

Of course, this spelling error is caused by a mis-read of the flourish, but as they were able to decipher "Harbour" then to me, it stands to reason they ought to have been able to decipher "Neutral" and  NOT read it as NEWTRAL....

Of course, anyone (particularly me) can get spelling muddled/confuddled and mismashed.  But surely any commercial website can afford to at least MEND the error, PROMPTLY, when it is politely pointed out.

Voluntary groups with websites strive to mend their spelling mistakes, even fixing them at meetings of their volunteer exec.  :)  :-X  :-X  ::)

(It is from a NSW State Records Office reel that Ancestry has uploaded)

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: DavidG02 on Sunday 15 March 15 23:46 GMT (UK)
Of course, this spelling error is caused by a mis-read of the flourish, but as they were able to decipher "Harbour" then to me, it stands to reason they ought to have been able to decipher "Neutral" and  NOT read it as NEWTRAL....

What scares me is that it may well be a literacy issue and not a transcribing issue  :(

It is clearly NOT Newtral , I wonder if one person read it to another who entered it as they heard/understood it
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Sunday 15 March 15 23:48 GMT (UK)
 :)

Yes, got it in one !


Comprehension issue too  ;D

ADD
the index is attached now
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: franh1946 on Wednesday 18 March 15 02:02 GMT (UK)
But what exquisite penmanship, JM! Now this thread is well and truly hijacked as I go on to say that I heard someone from the Mitchell Library talking about the difficulty the modern researcher has in reading old documents written in copperplate and there is a fear that the ability of the person in the street to decipher them is fast disappearing.
Also, I have to say that as the child of a child migrant I am exceedingly grateful that by the use of Ancestry I have been contacted by previously unknown cousins in Britain and NZ. Fran
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Wednesday 18 March 15 02:34 GMT (UK)
Modern Cursive hand was introduced to NSW Primary Schools in the early 1960s.   Children born in NSW after about 1955 were taught this from the beginning of their schooling.   So very soon, anyone educated in NSW and who is under 60 years of age will have no working knowledge of the wonderful handwriting skills of my generation and of the generations of NSW schoolchildren who went before me.  I maintain that I can write as quickly and as legibly as my youngest siblings, and they agree, however, they get confused with my flourishes, and my capitalisations, and use of commas, and commas with 'and' and of course lengthy sentences, long paragraphs, and 'et al' especially when I commence a sentence or a paragraph with "And" "But" "So" or I write "got" .....

"That that that that man said was that funny that I laughed at that that that that man said"

Yes, the Mitchell Library staff were spot on Fran.   :) 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Wyndham

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 18 March 15 08:43 GMT (UK)
But, I am quite quite sure that " Neutral" in the attached example was NOT written as "NEWTRAL' which is the spelling offered by Ancestry.   Yes, of course I have informed them, and yes of course I believe I have given them more than sufficient time to correct their error  (about six weeks ago)

Name and Shame ?  why not  :) 

Of course, this spelling error is caused by a mis-read of the flourish, but as they were able to decipher "Harbour" then to me, it stands to reason they ought to have been able to decipher "Neutral" and  NOT read it as NEWTRAL....

Of course, anyone (particularly me) can get spelling muddled/confuddled and mismashed.  But surely any commercial website can afford to at least MEND the error, PROMPTLY, when it is politely pointed out.

As I understand things, Ancestry do not generally make corrections, simply offer different spellings as an alternative?

When they do make a correction, it can take longer than 6 weeks!

I have submitted many corrections to Ancestry over the years. Acknowledgments of a correction sometimes takes months! ::)
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: Jaznjjj on Friday 20 March 15 00:24 GMT (UK)
Sometimes we have to accept the bad with the good.  Without Ancestry there would be much information and many contacts I would not otherwise have.  Putting information on Ancestry is a bit like going fishing - you will catch some good ones and some bottom-feeders.  If I find someone researching the same ancestors as I - mostly I make personal contact.  My advice?  Don't throw out the baby with the bath-water! 
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: Periwhinkle on Thursday 02 April 15 05:52 BST (UK)
Well said dgibbins, I totally agree.  As a professional genealogist I absolutely love Ancestry and believe it is probably the best search engine around, second perhaps only to Family Search...however, the public trees are mostly appalling.  Even when you find the original tree, there are no sources and the owner can never provide any either...so they are just a small clue sometimes when we hit a brick wall.

But truly, without some of these people sharing their knowledge and stories, and beautiful old photos...where would our profession be?  No...what is worse I think are those that like to promote how great their tree is yet won't share a branch of it because of the time and money it took them to complete it.  I understand the time and money, it's my day to day...but never, ever, would I not share my work with others (unless my client stipulates that they are against it...but to date not one of them has).



I have previously made comment that I don't treat online family trees (OFT) as gospel but as a pathway.

I understand the concerns of privacy that majm has and quite agree that it has never been easier to utilise identity theft.

BUT

I will take the opposite argument, and highlight the  one reason we are here on Rootschat... TO SHARE OUR KNOWLEDGE and to help others, so when I see a posted OFT I am glad because it gives me a signpost , it is someone sharing their knowledge , it is then up to me whether I follow that path with or without a light.

And if someone wishes to contact me and point me in the right direction, I will check and re-check , and then  amend if needed.

 :)
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: majm on Thursday 02 April 15 05:56 BST (UK)
Well said dgibbins, I totally agree.  As a professional genealogist I absolutely love Ancestry and believe it is probably the best search engine around, second perhaps only to Family Search...however, the public trees are mostly appalling.  Even when you find the original tree, there are no sources and the owner can never provide any either...so they are just a small clue sometimes when we hit a brick wall.

But truly, without some of these people sharing their knowledge and stories, and beautiful old photos...where would our profession be?  No...what is worse I think are those that like to promote how great their tree is yet won't share a branch of it because of the time and money it took them to complete it.  I understand the time and money, it's my day to day...but never, ever, would I not share my work with others (unless my client stipulates that they are against it...but to date not one of them has).

Welcome to RootsChat Periwhinkle, 

It is the best family history forum around.


Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: lydiaann on Thursday 02 April 15 08:46 BST (UK)
I agree with all your comments.  However, I am still of the opinion that you should always request politely of the 'original owner' of the information and, not only that, acknowledge their contribution when posting the same information in your tree.  Of course we should share, but someone who downloads information by the shedload, including the most private thoughts on recently deceased relatives (in my case, a personal bio about my beloved mum) just so that they can add numbers to their tree is wrong.

There, had my rant.  Have a great day!
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: Periwhinkle on Thursday 02 April 15 08:50 BST (UK)
Totally agree Lydia...and maybe some more rules around this too.  But you know what they say, here in Facebook land they tell us whatever is on the internet is anyone's!!!  I still believe we need to have ethics and morals around that...and that comes down to the individual.  Be careful with photos you don't want shared!!

I agree with all your comments.  However, I am still of the opinion that you should always request politely of the 'original owner' of the information and, not only that, acknowledge their contribution when posting the same information in your tree.  Of course we should share, but someone who downloads information by the shedload, including the most private thoughts on recently deceased relatives (in my case, a personal bio about my beloved mum) just so that they can add numbers to their tree is wrong.

There, had my rant.  Have a great day!
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: pmgreen314 on Thursday 02 April 15 18:25 BST (UK)
I understand the concern of the contributors to this topic. However, another viewpoint is that I do not have a problem sharing my research. While it may cost me in actual dollars or time, I consider the point of it is to keep the family history alive for future generations who may be interested. I do strive to keep currently living family members private by not including their names, but the reality is the information is out there - anyone searching an obituary notice, for example, will find a list of relationships.  I am selective about what information I add to my tree, although I do find mistakes even then. It's all part of the process. Through Ancestry, I have made contact with new cousins in different parts of Canada and in England.  Some of them are now considered "friends" so an unexpected bonus. We have shared information and photos so the experience is very positive overall.
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: Jaznjjj on Thursday 02 April 15 21:03 BST (UK)
I have written something similar earlier in the thread but would like to say that I agree completely with pmgreen314.  J
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: Periwhinkle on Thursday 02 April 15 23:24 BST (UK)
Yes me too, darn well said pmgreen.  Why would I want anyone else spending years and years trying to find something that I can help them with?  Although in my day we did an immense amount of travel to accomplish a true genealogical profile...these days it seems too easy, but I love it all the same.  What once took me over 5 years to prove, crossing 3 continents, is now able to be done with just the click of a few buttons, amazing!  I am a full supporter of Ancestry and similar sites and intend to make full use of them before the flying rats drive me to insanity!!!
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: princess41 on Monday 06 April 15 07:00 BST (UK)
I have constantly been emailing a particular person informing her that the information she had on her family tree on Ancestry was incorrect.  She has linked herself into my family incorrectly and is just guessing at names.  I have paid for the certificates, sighted the church records and told her of this numerous times but she still continues to leave the wrong information on her family tree on Ancestry.  She is also using my family photos and documents which she pinched off my correct tree.  People click into this information and then starting adding it to their tree thinking it is right.

I rang Ancestry a few months ago and explained what she had done.  Example, I have the death certificate for my GGGrandfahter stating he died in Queensland.  She has him listed as dying in the U.K.  I emailed her telling her it was wrong. She wouldn't answer my emails so I rang Ancestry.

Their response was that if it was a Public Tree they could do nothing.  They are aware of this happening all the time.  Their advice was to only do a Private Tree. 

I am more than happy to share with anyone what I have found.  I have paid for overseas travel, archival records and subscriptions to Family History societies but all that I ask for in return is for people to use the information correctly.

Make sure all your research is backed up with your own records as proof.  I am sure most people will be happy to give you a copy of what they have found if you ask them nicely.  We all love it when we have a breakthrough in our research, but please, don't just add information without a thorough check. 

Cheers
Title: Re: A**y has become our worst enemy
Post by: lydiaann on Monday 06 April 15 09:02 BST (UK)
How true, Princess.  I spent 2 years before I finally persuaded an American user that our common ancestor (a direct ancestor on my hubby's side, a rather distant twig on hers) was not a Sir *** Mcd* but a lowly crofter.  I too am happy to help other people - I send out documentation to those unable to get it themselves and I receive other documentation from people.  It's the idle ones who do no research and, by adding your info incorrectly into their (unrelated) tree, sully the work of amateur genealogists who are genuinely interested in providing true history.