RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Westy11 on Sunday 15 March 15 08:33 GMT (UK)
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A tall ask I fear but nonetheless I have always been amazed what others have been able to achieve on Rootschat Forum.
I am hoping for some assistance to locate the marriage details between William Sanderson and Frances [Fanny] Pilton.
William Sanderson a civil engineer, made a Will on 24 Feb 1868: he was in Brussels at the time. In the Will he notes that he is off to India in the service of the British Government. William notes ....I give to my wife Frances, daughter of the late William Henry Pilton of Kennington Surrey and sister to Madame Rochard of Brussels. ....
Frances was born in Kennington Surrey. It is likely that Frances [Fanny] was in Brussels and that William and Frances married between 26 Sept 1865 and 24 Feb 1868.
Williams father was Henry Sanderson deceased in 1849 and a civil engineer. Frances father was a brick maker.
Westy11
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can’t find a marriage for Frances in Brussels, but there’s a birth of a son William Joseph Sanderson born 4th May 1868 Brussels
and the marriage of Harriette Pilton (Frances’ sister) with Simon Jacques Rochard : 2th July 1863 Brussels
on Familysearch https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https://familysearch.org/recapi/sord/collection/1482191/waypoints
birth William Joseph Sanderson http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ey9/ (cert n° 2159)
marriage Harriette Pilton http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ey7/ (cert n° 858)
marriage annexes http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ey8/ (image 501 up to image 519 (among others the baptism cert of Harriette and death cert of her father)
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Hello leen
That is simply amazing and I thank you for that.... Now I just have to find someone who speaks French [ is it French on William Joseph's birth record].
Nonetheless thank you so much for your assistance! :)
Westy11
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Hi
Here is someone who speaks French and this is the text in French and English:
Cinq Mai, mil huit cent soixante-huit (1868), heure de midi à été dressé, après constatation, par nous, officier de l’état civil de la ville de Bruxelles, l’Acte de Naissance de William Joseph Sanderson, né le quatre de ce mois à sept heures du matin, rue des douze apôtres, N. 16, 1 R, fils de William Sanderson, Ingénieur, né à Londres et de Fanny Pilton née à Londres, conjointes, domiciliés é Londres (Angleterre).
Sur la déclaration de Jean Baptiste Simon, accoucheur, agé de quarante-sept ans, domicilié place de la Chapelle Nr 3, 3e D.
En présence de Jean Philippe Hauser, professeur, âgé de trente-six ans et de Narcisse Bourbon, professeur, âgé de trente-cinq ans, domiciliés en cette ville.
5th Mai 1868 at noon, I the registrar of Brussels, have written this record after determination. Birth record of William Joseph Sanderson, born on the 4th of this month at seven o’clock in the morning, at twelve Apostle Street number 16, son of William Sanderson, Engineer, born in London and of Fanny Pilton, born in London, married, resident in London, England.
Declaration made by Jean Baptiste Simon, who was present at the birth, aged fourty-seven, resident place of the Chapel number 3, 3e D.
Also present at the registrar’s office were Jean Philippe Hauser, Professor, aged thirty-six, and Narcisse Bourbon, Professor, aged thirty-five , both residents in this city.
Regards
Svenja
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Hello Svenja
Thank you so much for the translation. Just superb.
Kind regards
Westy11
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Hi
This is the French text of the marriage of the sister in Brussels:
L’an mil huit cent soixante-trois, le deux du mois de Juillet, à onze heures du matin, devant nous, Henri Vandermeeren, officier de l’état civil de la ville de Bruxelles, ont comparu en la Maison communale, en séance publique:
Simon Jacques Rochard, artiste peintre, né à Paris le vingt-huit décembre mil sept cent quatre-vingt-huit, domicilié à Bruxelles, rue des douze apôtres No 23, veuf de Henriette Françoise Désiré Petitjean, décédée le onze avril mil huit cent soixante-trois, fils majeur de Réné Rochard, décédé et de Marie Madeleine Calon, profession et domicile inconnus, d’une part
et de Harriette Pilton, sans profession, née à Londres, le neuf juillet mil huit cent vingt-neuf, domiciliée à Bruxelles même rue No 23, fille majeure de feu William Henri Pilton et de Susanne Anne Stevens, rentière, domiciliée à Londres, consentante par acte, d’autre part.
Les contractants déclarent avoir arrêté leurs conventions matrimoniales devant Martie Gheude, notaire à Bruxelles, le deux juillet.
L’époux déclare sous la foi du serment que la mère es absente sans nouvelles depuis vingt-deux ans, la quelle déclaration est aussi certifiée sous serment par les témoins. L’épouse déclare que le nom de famille de sa mère est Stevens, laquelle déclaration est aussi certifiée par les témoins.
En présence de Auguste Charles Swartk/Swastk, Banquier, âgé de vingt-six ans, domicilié à Saint Josse ten Noode, Emile De Moors, Banquier, âgé de quarante-six ans, Pierre Martin Gheude, notaire, âgé de trente-huit ans, et Jean Gheude, employé, âgé de trente-six ans, tous trois domiciliés à Bruxelles.
Regards
Svenja
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Hi
And this is the English translation of the same marriage record:
In the year 1863, the 2nd of the month July, at 11 o’clock in the morning, at the registrar of Brussels, Henri Vandermeeren, appeared in the council office for a public session:
Simon Jacques Rochard, painter, born in Paris on the 28th December 1788, resident in Brussels, twelve apostles Street number 23, widower of Henriette Françoise Désiré Petitjean, died on the 11th April 1863, son of full age of the deceased Réné Rochard and of Marie Madeleine Calon, occupation and residence unknown, on the first part
and Harriette Pilton, without occupation, born in London on the 9th July 1829, resident in Brussels on the same street number 23, daughter of full age of the deceased William Henri Pilton and of Susanne Anne Stevens, pensioner, consenting, resident in London, on the other part
The contractors declared to have layed down the conventions of the marriage at the notary Martie Gheude in Brussels on the 2nd July.
The bridegroom made the sworn statement that his mother has been absent without any news for 22 years, this declaration was also certified by the witnesses. The bride made the sworn statement that the surname of her mother is Stevens, this declaration was also certified by the witnesses.
In presence of Auguste Charles Swartk or Swastk, banker, aged twenty six, resident in Saint Josse ten Noode (not sure), Emile De Moors, banker, aged forty six, Pierre Martin Gheude, notary, aged thirty eight, and Jean Gheude, employee, aged thirty six, all three resident in Brussels.
Regards
Svenja
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Hello Svenja
That is really marvelous and I am so appreciative. :)
Can I impose on you for one further favour please???? If possible is there anychance you can find any record of William Sanderson and Frances [Fanny] Pilton's son William Joseph Sanderson born 4 May 1868 in Brussels???
I have been unable to locate what became of Frances and her son after her husband William died in India in 1872. It seems that Frances and the child may have stayed in Brussels and she and her sister and their little ones may have looked after each other whilst William was away.
Even if you are unable to assist further I am genuinely thankful for your efforts.
Westy11
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Hi
Simon Jacques Rochard was a famous portrait painter as you can read here:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Jacques_Rochard
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Rochard,_Simon_Jacques_%28DNB00%29
Regards
Svenja
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Thank you Svenja for the info. I see he and Harriette married when he was 80 which is really interesting. I don't know the name of the child but I have found that Harriette died in England and her death registered in Jan 1908.
Is there any reference to the name of Henriette and Simon Jacques child???
Westy11
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Hi
I can only find children born before he married Harriette, some more children than mentioned on wikipedia.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?uidh=000&rank=1&new=1&so=3&msT=1&gsln=Rochard&MSAV=1&cp=0&cpxt=0&catBucket=rstp&gl=43&sbo=t&gsbco=Sweden&noredir=true
Regards
Svenja
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hello Westy11 and Svenja,
‘found the following in the registers of Brussels and Etterbeek (dates : dd/mm/yy)
The son of Simon Jacques Rochard and Hariette Pilton is Henri Felix Rochard.
Henri Felix Rochard born 29/11/1867 Brussels http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ezs/ (cert n° 5333)
(the declarant was Simon Jacques himself, 78 years old, very interesting indeed)
William Joseph Sanders married with Marie Therese Daelman in Etterbeek, sadly enough his mum Frances died a few months after his wedding and before the birth of her first grandchild.
marriage of William Joseph Sanderson and Marie Therese Daelman x 04/02/1894 Etterbeek http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ezu/ (cert n° 21)
marriage annexes http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ezo/ (image 905 up to 917)
son of William Joseph Sanderson and Marie Therese Daelman :
William Henri Frederic Sanderson ° 02/06/1895 Etterbeek http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ezp/ (cert n° 204)
daughter of William Joseph Sanderson and Marie Therese Daelman :
Henriette Fanny Sanderson ° 23/07/1898 Etterbeek http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ezq/ (cert n° 309)
death of Fanny Pilton + 04/11/1894 Etterbeek http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ezt/ (cert n° 275)
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hello leen & and Svenja
Thank you so very much leen. There simply cannot say how much your assistance has meant to me. You have both knocked down a brickwall and for that we are extremely grateful.
If possible Svenja - can I please impose on your to translate the records at all???? I can make out some words but not enough to really understand what is being said. ;D
Thank you anyway if you are unable to help me.
Leen - superb and thanks a million. :)
Westy11
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Hi
Death of Fanny Pilton Sanderson
Le six novembre mil huit cent nonante quatre, à dix heure du matin a été dressé, après constatation, par Nous, Edouard de Thibault, Echerin délégué, officier de l’Etat Civil de la commune d’Etterbeek l’acte de décès de Fanny Pilton, professeur, décédée le quatre de ce mois à cinq heures et demi du soir, avenue de la Chevalerie 167, y résidant, domiciliée à Londres (Angleterre), âgée de cinquante-neuf ans, neuf mois et cinq jours, née à Clapham (Angleterre), veuve de William Sanderson, fille de William Henri Pilton et de Fanny Stephens, décédés.
Sur la déclaration de William Sanderson, fils employé, âgé de vingt-sept ans, et de Jules Horte, non parent, ouvrier imprimeur, âgé de trente ans, domiciliés à Etterbeek.
Birth of Henry Felix Rochard
Le deux décembre mil huit cent soixante-sept, à une heure après midi a été dressé, après constatation, par Nous, Officvier de l’Etat Civil de la Ville de Bruxelles, l’acte de Naissance de
Henri Felix Rochard, né le vingt-neuf Novembre dernier, à quatre heures après midi, rue des douze apôtres No 23, fils de Simon Jacques Rochard, artiste peintre, né à Paris, et de Henriette Pilton, née à Londres (Angleterre), conjoints résidants même maison et domiciliée à Paris… No 5
Sur la déclaration du père, âgé de septante-huit ans. En présence de Felix Bovie, rentier, âgé de cinquante-cinq ans et de Pierre Antoine Linack, pompier, vingt-cinq ans, domicilié en cette ville.
Duquel acte il leur a été donné lecture. Le second témoin a déclaré ne savoir signer, étant illittré.
Regards
Svenja
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Hi
Marriage of William Joseph Sanderson
Le quatorze Février mil huit cent nonante quatre à onze heure du matin, devant Nous, Edouard de Thibault, Echerin délégué, officier de l’Etat Civil de la commune d’Etterbeek, ont comparu:
William Joseph Sanderson, employé, né à Bruxelles le quatre Mai mil huit cent soixante-huit, domicilié à Etterbeek, fils majeur de William Sanderson, profession et domicile inconnus, ainsi qu’il … de l’acte de notarieté passé le vingt-trois janvier dernier par le Juge de paix du canton de Saint Josse ten noode, et de Fanny Pilton, professeur de langues, résidant à Etterbeek et présente et consentant au mariage, d’une part et
Marie Thérèse Daelman, sans profession, née à Auderghem le quatorze août mil huit cent septante-deux, domiciliée à Etterbeek, fille majeure de François Daelman, fabricant de briques, et de Elisabeth Huggens, domiciliés à Etterbeek, consentant au mariage par acte passé le treize février courant, devant Maitre Moonens, notaire résidant à Woluwe Saint Lambert, d’autre part.
En présence de Charles Van den Abeek, cabaretier, âgé de trente-quatre ans, de Guillaume … sans profession, âgé de cinquante-sept ans, de Charles Van Gansen, employé, âgé de trente-cinq ans, et de Gabriel Huggens, agent de police, âgé de quarante-six ans, tous quatres non parents et domiciliés à Etterbeek.
Regards
Svenja
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Hi
Death of Fanny Pilton Sanderson
On the 6th November 1894, at 10 o’clock in the morning I, Edouard de Thibault, the registrar of Etterbeek, have written this record after determination. Death record of Fanny Pilton, teacher, deceased on the 4th of this month at five o’clock in the evening, at avenue de la Chevalerie 167, residing there, domiciled in London, England, aged 59 years, 9 months and 5 days, born in Clapham, England, widow of William Sanderson, daughter of William Henri Pilton and of Fanny Stephens, both deceased.
Declaration made by William Sanderson, son, employee, aged 27 years, and by Jules Horte, not related, labourer, aged 30 years, both domiciled at Etterbeek.
Birth of Henri Felix Rochard
On the 2nd December 1867 at 1 o’clock in the afternoon, I the registrar of Brussels, have written this record after determination. Birth record of Henri Felix Rochard, born on the 29th November of this year at four o’clock in the afternoon, at twelve Apostle Street number 23, son of Simon Jacques Rochard, painter, born in Paris and of Henriette Pilton, born in London, England, married, residing in the same house (in Brussels) and domiciled in Paris…
Declaration made by the father of the child, aged 78 years.
Also present at the registrar’s office were Felix Bovie, pensioner, fifty-five years old, and Antoine Linack, fire fighter, twenty-five years old, both residents in this city.
This record was read to the witnesses. The second witness declared that he is not able to write.
Regards
Svenja
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Hi
Marriage of William Joseph Sanderson
On the fourteenth February 1894 at 11 o’clock in the morning, appeared at the registrar of Etterbeek, Edouard de Thibault:
William Joseph Sanderson, employee, born in Brussels on the fourth Mai 1868, domiciled in Etterbeek, full aged son of William Sanderson, occupation and residency unknown, so as it is mentioned in the record of the notary sent on the last 23. January of the Justice of Peace of the Canton Saint Josse ten noode, and of Fanny Pilton, teacher of languages, residing in Etterbeek and present and consenting to this marriage, at one side and
Marie Thérèse Daelman, without occupation, born in Auderghem on the fourteenth August 1872, domiciled in Etterbeek, full aged daughter of François Daelman, brick manufacturer, and of Elisabeth Huggens, domiciled in Etterbeek, consenting to this marriage, record sent on the last thirteenth February, by Maitre Moonens, notary residing in Woluwe Saint Lambert, at the other side.
Present are: Charles Van den Abeek, innkeeper, aged 34 years, Guillaume (=William) … without occupation, aged 57 years, Charles Van Gansen, employee, aged 35 years and Gabriel Huggens, police agent, aged 46 years, all four not related and domiciled in Etterbeek.
Regards
Svenja
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Hi
Birth of William Henri Frédéric Sanderson
Le trois juin mil huit cent nonante-cinq, à onze heure du matin a été dressé, après constatation, par Nous, Clément Fabry, Echevin, Officier de l’Etat Civil de la Commune d’Etterbeek, l’acte de Naissance de
William Henri Frédéric Sanderson, né le deux de ce mois, à quatre heures et cinq minutes du matin, avenue de la Chevalerie 167, fils de William Joseph Sanderson, employé, né à Bruxelles, âgé de vingt-sept ans, et de Marie Thérèse Daelman, née à Auderghem, âgé de vingt-deux ans, conjoints domiciliés même maison.
Sur la déclaration du père. En présence de François Dumoulin, employé, âgé de trente-cinq ans, domicilié à Bruxelles, et de Richard Kips, professeur de musique, âgé de vingt-huit ans, domicilié à Etterbeek, Nous Echevin, faisant fonctions d’officier de l’Etat Civil, en remplacement de l’Echevin délégué, absent et conformément à l’article nonante-trois de la loi communale.
Duquel acte il leur a été donné lecture.
On the 3rd June 1895 at 11 o’clock in the morning, I, Clement Fabry, the registrar of Etterbeek, have written this record after determination. Birth record of William Henri Frédéric Sanderson, born on the 2nd of this month at four o’clock an five minutes in the morning, at Avenue de la Chevalerie 167, son of William Joseph Sanderson, employee, born in Brussels, aged twenty seven years, and of Marie Thérèse Daelman, born in Auderghem, aged twenty two years, married couple, domiciled in the same house.
Declaration made by the father of the child.
Also present at the registrar’s office were François Dumoulin, employee, aged thirty five years, domiciled in Brussels, and Richard Kips, teacher of music, aged twenty eight years, domiciled in Etterbeek.
This record was read to the witnesses.
Regards
Svenja
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Hi
Birth of Henriette Fanny Sanderson
Le vingt-cinq juillet mil huit cent nonante-huit, à onze heure du matin a été dressé, après constatation, par Nous, Edouard de Thibault, Echevin délégué, Officier de l’Etat Civil de la Commune d’Etterbeek, l’acte de Naissance de
Henriette Fanny Sanderson, née le vingt-trois de ce mois, à neuf heures et quarante-cinq minutes du soir, Chaussée Saint Pierre 209, fille de William Joseph Sanderson, négociant, né à Bruxelles, âgé de trente ans, et de Marie Thérèse Daelman, née à Auderghem, âgé de vingt-cinq ans, conjoints domiciliés même maison.
Sur la déclaration du père. En présence de Antoine Leemans, couvreur, âgé de trente-neuf ans, et de Egide Vanobbergen, plafonneur, âgé de cinquante ans, domiciliés à Etterbeek.
Duquel acte il leur a été donné lecture.
On the 25th July 1898 at 11 o’clock in the morning, I, Edouard de Thibault, the registrar of Etterbeek, have written this record after determination. Birth record of Henriette Fanny Sanderson, born on the 23rd of this month at nine o’clock and forty five minutes in the evening, at Chaussée Saint Pierre 209, daughter of William Joseph Sanderson, negociant, born in Brussels, aged thirty years, and of Marie Thérèse Daelman, born in Auderghem, aged twenty five years, married couple, domiciled in the same house.
Declaration made by the father of the child.
Also present at the registrar’s office were Antoine Leemans, roofer, aged thirty nine years, and Egide Vanobbergen, ceiling builder, aged fifty years, both domiciled in Etterbeek.
This record was read to the witnesses.
Regards
Svenja
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Hello Svenja
Thank you so very much. I genuinely appreciate your efforts in bringing to life the births and marriage of my ancestors. :)
Between your good self and leen what was once a brickwall is now no longer.
Once again Svenja - thank you so very much.
Westy11