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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: jacksnana on Friday 10 April 15 01:35 BST (UK)
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I am looking for Ann/Annie Williams born around 1900 who drowned picking cockles in Pwllheli in approx 1980.
Hoping for clues to check that I am researching the correct Ann Williams as I have no information other than at some point she lived in Penrhos.
If I can get an accurate date of death from local knowledge/newspaper report than I can at least get the correct death certificate.
Many thanks
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Hello Jacksnana
Welcome to Rootschat!
Maybe ask your question on the Wales board? There might be more chance of it being seen there by someone with local knowledge.
Here is a link to the main Wales board. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/wales/
Or even better, the Caernarvonshire board. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/caernarvonshire/
Angelfish
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I am looking for Ann/Annie Williams born around 1900 who drowned picking cockles in Pwllheli in approx 1980.
Hoping for clues to check that I am researching the correct Ann Williams as I have no information other than at some point she lived in Penrhos.
If I can get an accurate date of death from local knowledge/newspaper report then I can at least get the correct death certificate.
Many thanks
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Thank you for such a prompt response. I've retyped my request onto the Wales board. Is there an easy way to post the same message on different boards ?
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Hi jacksnan
Welcome to rootschat :)
It is best if you do not repeat your request on lots of boards as it could result in us duplicating information others have already found. The Wales board is probably best for starters ;)
Rosie
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are you sure she was aged 80 - there is this record -this lady died in april/may/june of 1980
Annie Jane Williams born on 9th May 1905
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVZ9-LB55
so this lady would only be 75
;)
ADDED...I can't see another one who died in Pwllheli in 1980
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Thank you
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Not sure of anything, all dates and age approximate, but hope the report of elderly lady drowning whilst cockle picking might identify the correct person.
Thanks
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Thank you for such a prompt response. I've retyped my request onto the Wales board. Is there an easy way to post the same message on different boards ?
If you put your message on the wrong board sometimes a moderator will notice and move it. ;D
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Hi
There are more than one deaths in Pwllheli & Porthmadog Registration District which are a close fit. Nearest fit appears to be an Annie Williams born 20/07/1900, death registered 2nd quarter of 1981, age 80.
Emyr
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Yes that was my best guess but, as you say, more than one possibility and others with Ann/Annie as a middle name. If I don't get any info from the story of her death I will get that certificate to check cause of death.....
Thank you
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Thank you for such a prompt response. I've retyped my request onto the Wales board. Is there an easy way to post the same message on different boards ?
If you put your message on the wrong board sometimes a moderator will notice and move it. ;D
You don't need to wait for the mod to notice it just click the report to moderator and ask them to move it ;D
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If you know her date of birth that is sometimes mentioned on a death certificate
Rosie
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The other topic on the Wales has had some replies
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=717861.0
I'll merge this one to prevent further duplication of effort.
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Pwllheli has a facebook page - maybe someone on there remembers the accident ??
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pwllheli/108136552548133?fref=ts
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No date of birth, no names of parents or siblings, not married.........just the family story about her death......
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Hi
Been away from home most of the day. The topic has been busy whilst I'm out! Have an elderly neighbour with inlaw connections with Penrhos. She's making enquiries; I'll call on her later tonight.
There's another elderly lady with Penrhos connections that I'll probably see tomorrow; not related to the other Penrhos connection.
Emyr
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Hi
First elderly person I've mentioned had no info, but is making enquiries.
Second elderly person, 'B', knew Annie and of the drowning. B's parents moved to Penyberth, Penrhos in 1935, and Annie worked for them as a maid. 'B' knew her as 'Annie Bach, Tyddyncaled' (little Annie of Tyddyncaled'). Tyddyncaled was her home when she drowned. If you input 'tyddyncaled' in Streetmaps website, you'll see it's by the sea near Penrhos/Pwllheli. Apparently there is, or was, was a cockle bed nearby which extended some distance into the sea. Annie had collected cockles there since childhood. The day she drowned was very misty, and it was assumed that she'd got disorientated in the mist. Annie's husband worked at the mart in Pwllheli.
'B' making enquiries, but I won't see her for at least a fortnight.
Emyr
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Many thanks and special thanks to "B". Now I have more information I will try the archive of the local newspapers.
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Hi
Are you sure that you've got the correct surname ? 'B' referred to her as Annie JONES; I assumed she was referring to Annie's maiden name. I've found a Welsh newspaper account of the death of an Annie JONES of Tyddyn Caled (Tyddyncaled), in tragic circumstances, in March 1981. Doesn't give the circumstances of death, or the date; she was cremated at Bangor on 13/03/1981.
Annie was the daughter of the late Griffith & Jane Williams of Tanybryn, Rhydyclafdy. Her husband, still alive at time of her death, was Gwyn Jones. She had a son and daughter inlaw, Griffith John and Mary. Two grandchildren are named, will name them in a PM, as they might still be alive. Mr & Mrs James Ifor Jones, Pencaenewydd, Mr & Mrs Thomas Jones, Mynytho, and Mr & Mrs Stanley Jones, Nefyn are named as brothers and sisters inlaw. Various other relatives are named.
Do these names mean anything to you?
Will be passing thro' Caernarfon on Wednesday. If I have time I'll call at the Gwynedd Archivesd to see if I can find more info.
Emyr
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This is all so brilliant, thank you. Gwyn Jones is correct as Annie's partner but as far as I know they didn't marry. Maybe married later in life after her sons were born. Where did you get her parent's names from? There were just too many variables to be sure I was looking at the correct person. I will order the various certificates now I can be certain it is the person I am looking for. I will put up another post if I need more details in the future.
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There is a potential marriage in 1957? From freebmd:
Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1957
JONES Ann JONES Anglesey W. 8a 57
JONES Robert G JONES Anglesey W. 8a 57
JONES Violet M WILLIAMS Anglesey W. 8a 57
WILLIAMS Gwynfor JONES Anglesey W. 8a 57
I don't have a family connection to these people but still want to say thanks to everyone who is helping so much. Incredible. I love this site so much :)
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Hi Jacksnana,
I'm not sure what certificates you need to order - hold on for the time being. I'll send PM tomorrow.
1911 Census, Annie's age is given as 9.
Emyr
Hi Angelfish,
There is no Anglesey connection. Newspaper article says Annie had lived all her life in the area where she died. I've traced her family in 1911 and 1901 Censuses. Haven't looked further back.
Emyr
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Hi
Article in Caernarvon & Denbigh Herald, Gwynedd South & West Edition, Fri. 13/03/1981:
BODY FOUND.
"The body of 76 year old Mrs Annie Jones, Tyddyn Caled, Penrhos, was found by police on the Pwllheli beach, a short distance from the golf links late on Monday evening. She had left the house at about 4.30 pm to collect winkles, and later in the evening her husband, Mr E G Jones informed police that she had not returned. The Lleyn & Eifionydd Coroner, Mr Cyril Davies has been informed of the facts."
NOTE.
The area being sandy, I suggest that 'cockles' rather than 'winkles' is correct.
Age 76 ?
27/03/1981 p.19
Report of funeral in same paper (English version of Herald Cymraeg ), gives same info as previously supplied, and in addition list of those who sent flowers.
Emyr
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Hi
Re. my last reply - note name of husband E G Jones.
Civil marriage in last quarter of 1938, Pwllheli & Portmadoc Registration District:
Annie Williams to Ellis G Jones.
Emyr
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Thank you for all this information and the time you have taken on my behalf, your help is very much appreciated.
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Hi
Saw 'B' yesterday; she says that it was mussels Annie was picking ! No further info.
Emyr
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Hi
Spoke to a good friend of Annie and Gwyn a few days ago. Tells me that there are family still living in Pwllheli area. He was away at the time of Annie's death; was later told by Gwyn that she'd suffered a heart attack, which would account for her having drowned in an area she was very familiar with. He agrees with the newspaper account that it was winkles she was collecting ; she was wary of eating mussels because of the risks involved; regularly collected and cooked winkles.
Gwyn worked moving animals around in the Mart in Pwllheli ; was killed by being crushed by a bull in a pen.
Sending PM.
Emyr
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I don't know if anyone is still viewing this post, however I am trying to find if Ann had a son, John Leslie Jones ?
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Hi
Nobody of that name mentioned in list of relatives in obituary.
Emyr
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Oh my gosh!! I don't know if anyone is still following this thread,but i feel so invested in this story...
I walked past the cottage the other day, and felt so sad that it was in ruin, and wondered, like you often do when you see a ruined home, about how and why it fell into ruin...
What a tragic story about Annie and Gwyn!!
I wonder how the house came to be abandoned.... If it was just because both had passed.......
I think I will lay some flowers for Annie and Gwyn, next time i walk along there.