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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: olduser1 on Friday 17 April 15 10:11 BST (UK)
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So far unable to locate the wherabouts of Agnes Robertson McKellar on the 1911 Census, Agnes R McMillan b1883 in Gatehouse of Fleet married Alexander McKellar in 1906 in Greenock [ 18 Wellington St ] they had 2 children, Jessie McMillan McKellar b 1907 at Gatehouse and Margaret Brown McKellar b 1910 also at Gatehouse at their Grandmothers house.
When I looked for the family I cannot find the husband Alexander b 1880 Greenock nor Agnes and Margaret.
I did locate Jessie at her Grans in Gatehouse on 1911 Census.
I also traced the F John & M Jane Mckellar but no Alexander still living in 18 Wellington St Greenock
I wondered if Agnes & little Margaret could have been in hospital, if that was the case would they have bee inculeded on the Census?
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Hi olduser
I struggle to find them too for you :-\ Can't see anything obvious for them either in England or Ireland for 1911.
People in hospitals and other institutions are recorded in the censuses.
Monica
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Monical, thanks I thought I was missing something.
Maybe there's a return missing.
I'll keep on searching & let the forum know
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I know Agnes's husband Alexander McKellar b abt 1880 in Greenock died in WW1, the war memorial has an entry for Alexander McKellar Shipmaster Transport Services.
How would I go about finding more about this ?
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This might help...
From Wills & Testaments on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk:
Alexander MACKELLAR - 03/09/1918 - MASTER MARINER, 17 BRISBANE STREET, GREENOCK, D. 08/09/1917 AT HAVRE, FRANCE, INTESTATE. @ GREENOCK SHERIFF COURT SC53/41/26
He died without making a will (intestate). Not sure, as it is not showing, what type of document it might be . 5 pages showing for the document.
Monica
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Thanks for your speedy reply.
I'll have another look at the family papers as well as at SP
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Maybe another birth here ?(following the possible lead from the address):
McKELLAR 1913 A son to Mr & Mrs Alex McKellar born at 8
Brisbane Street, Greenock on 28th July 1913
(Greenock Telegraph 29.7.1913)
www.inverclyde.gov.uk/Search/?k=streets&d=1&r=56721&page=16&&v=1
The housing in Brisbane Street looks to have been there some time. These photos might be interesting http://jane-firthofclyde.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/greenock-brisbane-street-2.html Streetview also also 8 Brisbane Street (assuming it wasn't renumbered along the way...and I am right that these properties look to have likely been there around the 1910s).
Monica
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??? Two Alexander McKellars showing in Brisbane Street on the 1915 Valuation Rolls.
1915 Tenant Occupier - Alexander MACKELLAR - HOUSE NO 17 BRISBANE STREET GREENOCK, GREENOCK BURGH VR36 / 71 / 676 This is the address showing on Wills & Testaments on SP
1915 Tenant Occupier - Alexander MACKELLAR - HOUSE NO 8 BRISBANE STREET GREENOCK GREENOCK BURGH VR36 / 71 / 687 This is the address showing for a birth in 1913.
If you look at these, hopefully the occupation of the Alexander will help...
Monica
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MonicaL thanks for all this information. These all look interesting we haven't any family records of a son but worth another search.
I 'll take a quite look a SP after tea & let the forum know if there's a possible match.
Thanks again
Just d/l the Will for17 Brisbane St but not my relative the widow was a Sarah McKellar nee Carmichael.
The McKellar at 8 Brisbane St was a joiner
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The 1915 Valuation Roll at 17 Brisbane Street seems to be the correct one. Can't have your Alexander at 17 and 8 Brisbane Road at the same time :-\ Think the 1913 birth I mentioned at 8 Brisbane Street might just be a coincidence. From the VRs for 17 Brisbane Street in 1915:
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Can't figure out as yet, but just posting here so it is there for future refence. At 17 Brisbane Street on the 1920 Valuation Rolls is the following entry. I know we have a range of options on first name variants, but not sure if Sarah connects to Agnes ???
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Sarah is a help from 1920. I am thinking from what I am seeing that Agnes Robertson McMillan had died by 1913 when husband, widower, married a Sarah Carmichael.
However, you mentioned much earlier on that Alexander was born 1880? The Alexander McKellar, shipmaster,widower, who married in 1913 was aged 48. Parents Alexander McKellar a seaman and Christine McArthur, both deceased.
From the marriage you have for Alexander to Agnes Robertson McMillan, what were his parents' names?
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I think we are going off track with the WW1 refs likely and the Alexander McKellar showing at 17 Brisbane Street, who was a shipmaster at the time of his death and commemorated on the Greenock WW1 memorial :-\ This Alexander remarried as we have seen at the age of 48 in 1913 to a Sarah Carmichael. She showed there at that address still in 1920 on the VRs.
YOUR Alexander is indeed younger (which is what worried me from the last doc). His parents are also different going by his 1906 marriage entry to Agnes:
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MonicaL, Again thank you for searching, the reason I started this enquiry again was when I found the Alxr McKellar entry on the Greenock war memorial -however the 1906 Marriage cert for 'our' Alexander McKellar, who married my relative, Agnes McMillan shows he was tugboatman .
I have a family photo of Agnes [ in mourning ] and her two daughters .
Agnes went onto marry again in 1921 in Liverpool, she died in 1968.
I'll keep on with researching and once again thanks for your helpful posts and comments.
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The other 1915 reference we had at 8 Brisbane Street is also not connected. That Alexander was a joiner :-\
Alexander and Agnes still AWOL from 1911 to 1921 when you mention you have her remarriage in Liverpool area.
Monica
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After more family discussion we have identified a 3rd daughter of Agnes MacKellar nee McMillan, Jean Stephenson McMiIllan MacKellar born 22/02/1914 however unable to find birth record on ScotPeople, did find marriage in 1939 to Lewis Giles, a sargent with Royal Artillery under Armed Forces in Bombay India and Palestine,thats 2 entries for the same marriage ?.
Marriage shows her age as 25 in 1939 but Jean used her mothers second marriage surname to William Bygrave . Also found her death in Liverpool in 1983.
Any suggestion s as to the location of her birth record given I now have confirmed forename/s and date of birth just unable to locate the country?
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Birth record now resloved Jean Stephenson McMillan registered as McMillan in England 1914.
Item now closed.
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Thanks for the update :)
Monica
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Hi. I have been reading this post with interest. I have second cousins (in Canada) who are descendants of Agnes Robertson McMillan, and so I have been filling out their part of my tree on Ancestry.com. I would like to add something to the discussion of Alexander McKellar. He is easily found in the 1901 Scotland census, with his parents John and Jane at 18 Wellington Street. But I note that in 1891 he is listed as Alexander McGillivray, with same parents and siblings. This suggests that he was adopted, or that the McKellars were not his biological parents. The fact that he is the youngest child virtually rules out the possibility of him being a child of Jane's, but to a different father, pre marriage to John. I further note that there are no later records of an Alex McGillivray that match, suggesting that subsequently he went by the McKellar name. I wonder if you were aware of this? Regards, Philip. [Dr Philip Czaplowski, Melbourne, Australia].
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Hello, You are correct the Mckellar family did adopt Alexander, as to his DOD that remains a mystery having been up to Greenock to research WW1 casualties - there was a A. Mckellar but it turned out to be another seaman much older than Alexander but living in the same street.
We have been in touch on Ancestry about the family connection.
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I wonder, if he did in fact serve and die during WWI, whether he was recorded as McGillivray?
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FindMyPast has 28 McGillivray, recorded under WW1, good luck hunting this entry down.
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Always up for a challenge! :-)
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Hi
Agnes Robertson Mc Millan was my Grandmother. My Great Grandfather was William Mc Millan. I see both are being searched for on this site. Agnes was married to Alexander, whose death I have recently found in Commonwealth War Graves. He died at Le Havre on 8 September 1917 and there is a head stone in the Ste Marie cemetary in Le Havre, France. He was Master of the SS King Edward. I am waiting until the National Archives at Kew reopens to get the ships log and see how he died, if recorded.
Agnes R Mc Millan and he had a blazing row before his last known voyage and before his second daughter, Margaret (who went onto great things) was born in 1910. He left, never to return and Agnes had to leave her children with relatives and go to Liverpool to find work and support the family. My mother was told he was lost at sea - however - his grave record and probate shows that he was living with a Sarah Carmichael, (known as McKellar) at Greenock, and she put the inscription on his grave and was also awarded his estate (£703) worth about £50K as of 2021, rather than his legal wife.
I remember the Bygrave relatives - we used to visit them in Liverpool from time to time. There was a great mystery about this, which was only revealed later, after grandmother's death.
I have only recently started to research my Mother's side of the family - I'm looking forward to the 1921 census being released, as it may answer some questions. KB
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I'm now uncertain if this was the older Alexander McKellar (shown above?) who is in the war grave -need to try to get ship's log, if possible.
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I'm now uncertain if this was the older Alexander McKellar (shown above?) who is in the war grave -need to try to get ship's log, if possible.
FindMyPast should have basic details of how he met his demise. Taken from the Deaths at Sea register.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/british-armed-forces-and-overseas-deaths-and-burials
There were nine British and Empire ships around in 1917 with the name KING EDWARD. So if you do visit Kew you need to find the correct one.
I suspect it was the Glasgow registered KING EDWARD official number 113963 but I could be wrong.
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/viewimages?year=1915&name=KING+EDWARD&steamsail=Steam&year=1917+&submit=enter
The DAS register should tell you the official number of the ship he died on.
The ships Logbook should tell you in detail the cause of his demise. The ships Crew Agreement should tell you personal details, such as his last address, NOK etc. Which should prove wether or not it is the person you seek.
Search TNA catalogue via Official number.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?name=Search&_cr1=BT%2099/3328&_aq=113963
SW
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Thank you for this. I have pursued quite a lot of these, but am getting two impressions - one, that he was taken off the ship and died (perhaps in the large military hospital) at Le Havre. Second was that this Alexander McKellar was older than my grandfather, according to ship's members lists - my husband, who is an ex-mariner, doesn't believe he was experienced/qualified enough to captain a ship such as the King Edward - but it was wartime and strange things happened. Both men (if there are two) had strong Greenock connections. I had got down to believing that I needed to look at the ship's log for the period, but this was last year, when things were locked down at Kew and I decided to wait for the 1921 census and some return to normality before continuing. I posted because I noticed that his death was being copied to other family trees and I wanted them to be aware that it may be incorrect.
KB