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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: hettie2000 on Sunday 19 April 15 11:13 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I've acquired an old family photo album (from a collector's fair) and I'm trying to identify the family so that I can either share the images or reunite it with the family. The dealer I bought it from said he picked it up in North Wales (presumably a house clearance). It has a large number of cabinet cards, cdv's, photos, postcards... and various hand-written annotations next to some of the images. But I'm struggling to read them, partly because the writing itself is difficult, and partly because it's in Welsh!
Please could anyone with better skills than me have a go at reading them?
I'll start with the ones I'm struggling most with. To me it looks like 'Ewyeth Stinisa' and 'B/Drowd Taid'... but all kinds of searches on Ancestry bring up nothing. I'm wondering if one of the words is Brawd, brother in Welsh? Any other ideas? As you can see, the photo was taken in Holyhead. There's another cabinet card of the same gentleman taken in Bl. Festiniog.
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Here's another... I think the first word is Chwaer (sister), then Anty
Betsi Jane, followed by ??? scabor Ddu ???. The last two words make no sense to me...
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How about: the Township of Scybor-ddu in Angelsey?
See http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/7c8bb8f1-7283-450e-878d-3fa739801f47 (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/7c8bb8f1-7283-450e-878d-3fa739801f47)
I know of place names elsewhere e.g. scybor-newydd for instance. Not sure if scybor-ddu is Black Barn?
Jon
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I think Ewynith is Gwyneth. A common Welsh christian name for females. Still is, but spellings vary. A rare gem to have obtained. Then, North Wales people were Welsh speaking or as first language, ie David Lloyd George. I can't help further but getting surnames will help in finding the relevant family. Should be relatively easy as these people were of substance despite the boy wearing a dress, which with poor people was often a necessity.
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How about: the Township of Scybor-ddu in Angelsey?
Thank you, Jon! That is a very good fit --- there's another photo in the album with Perth written on the back, and I notice there's a place called Perth Y Paen nearby. I suspected it didn't refer to Australia ;-).
Would Black Barn be the larger area? Very little comes up when I google it, and I'd love to pin-point this place on the censuses.
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I think Ewynith is Gwyneth.
Thank you so much... I think you're right, now that I look again :-). I've spent a lot of time plugging names into Ancestry but haven't tried Gwyneth yet... fingers crossed!
Once you see something in a particular way, it's hard to see it any differently. I'll let you know if I find anything.
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Another possibility? Ewythr is the Welsh for uncle - perhaps Stiniog is a diminutive of Festiniog, as in Blaenau Festiniog, so Ewythr Stiniog Brawd Taid would be Uncle Stiniog, Granddad's Brother.
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Would Black Barn be the larger area? Very little comes up when I google it, and I'd love to pin-point this place on the censuses
Sorry that was just me thinking aloud as to what Scybor-ddu might mean.
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Should be relatively easy as these people were of substance despite the boy wearing a dress, which with poor people was often a necessity.
I think the older child wearing a dress is actually a girl- it was common to cut off the hair of a person ill with fever in those days.
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Could it be ysgubor and if so it is barn, brawd is brother, and taid grandfather
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Hi
DragonT is correct, Uncle(from) F(f)estiniog etc, probably Blaenau Ffestiniog rather than Llan Ffestiniog.
The other is Auntie Jane Scubor (Ysgubor) Ddu. Ysgubor Ddu where, can't say.
Emyr
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Another possibility? Ewythr is the Welsh for uncle - perhaps Stiniog is a diminutive of Festiniog, as in Blaenau Festiniog, so Ewythr Stiniog Brawd Taid would be Uncle Stiniog, Granddad's Brother.
I like this interpretation! And to think I've spent all afternoon putting variations of 'Stinisa' into Ancestry and coming up with nothing, hehe. Uncle Stiniog has a nice ring to it :-).
Would Black Barn be the larger area? Very little comes up when I google it, and I'd love to pin-point this place on the censuses
Sorry that was just me thinking aloud as to what Scybor-ddu might mean.
Oops, I see now! Not much information about this tiny place on the web... I'll keep looking.
I think the older child wearing a dress is actually a girl- it was common to cut off the hair of a person ill with fever in those days.
I also thought 'girl' but she does look very sickly... bless her.
Could it be ysgubor and if so it is barn, brawd is brother, and taid grandfather
Ahh, so maybe not so straightforward as Scybor Ddu on Anglesey, then?
DragonT is correct, Uncle(from) F(f)estiniog etc, probably Blaenau Ffestiniog rather than Llan Ffestiniog.
The other is Auntie Jane Scubor (Ysgubor) Ddu. Ysgubor Ddu where, can't say.
I have another photo of the same man, taken in Bl. Festiniog so I think your assumption is correct, and I need to look at the census for that area.
Thanks everyone, this has helped a lot! I'll report back if I find anything. Or with more questions :-).
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It might be Stiniog Isa - lower ffestiniog maybe. Agree with all the other meanings. what a super find - it would be great if anyone is related to this family - odd how things like this are parted with.
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Trying Sgubor Ddu in the Welsh newspaper archive doesn't get much - Ysgubor Ddu (the full word, which is often shortened to Scubor) achieve around 30 hits, all related to the Anglesey location
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Thanks GillyJ and Mabel, I have a few leads to explore now :-)
Here's the other cabinet card of the bearded gentleman, surrounded by his daughters (?). Stamped in the reverse is W J Roberts, Bolton House, Bl. Festiniog. On the right hand side of the photo is a small image pinned to the curtain. Am I right in thinking this might be the deceased wife/mother?
I've been looking through the Ffestiniog census (1891) for a family that 'fits' but can see nothing so far.
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Hi
W J Roberts, Bolton House, Blaenau Ffestiniog was a photographer. XS/2572/1-19 Gwynedd Archives, includes a number of photographs by him, 1900? - 1914.
Emyr
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W J Roberts, Bolton House, Blaenau Ffestiniog was a photographer. XS/2572/1-19 Gwynedd Archives, includes a number of photographs by him, 1900? - 1914.
Emyr
Thanks so much! I'll look on a later census than I have been doing ;-)
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There are 2 dwellings listed as Ysgubor Ddu on the census searches. One is Newborough Anglesey (an entry in 1911 for a young couple), the other is in the Llanbadrig parish, near hamlets of Clegyrog and Carreglefn. I agree with what others have said in that I would say "Sgubor" is the colloquial version of Ysgubor and Ewyrth is uncle and "Stiniog" is how people would have pronounced Blaenau Ffestiniog. Maybe possible to trace which family member moved to Langton Staffordshire and link them to the rest of the family from earlier censuses.
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Was wondering if you had managed to get any further on in your search
Nesta
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Was wondering if you had managed to get any further on in your search
Nesta
Hi Nesta, thanks for your message - the album has been on my mind lately and I'm itching to get back to it! I put it down because I was getting quite frustrated and couldn't join-the-dots. I'll update the thread soon, when I've refreshed my memory as to where I was up to!
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Thank you - I was wondering how you were getting on as that kind of challenge appeals to me and as I browse around auctions and shops I seem to have half an eye out for that kind of stuff ?
Look forward to an update.
By the way - I have an Uncle Bob 'Stiniog ! who comes from Blaenau Ffestiniog ! He has always been known like that and I know that my mother (whose Mum came from that area ) also had relatives who had the same tag after their names.....it is a very common of labelling a relative in an area which tends to have a lot of people with the same name.
Nesta
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It's funny that we both look for more photos etc to research into, as if we don't have enough of our own family 'stuff', we take on other people's too! But I love it so much that I hate to think of old photos being abandoned and unidentified ;).
By the way - I have an Uncle Bob 'Stiniog !
This is great, thank you! And makes a lot of sense, since one of the problems I've had researching this album is the repetition in the names.... so adding the place-name label is helpful, and I didn't realise it was done quite so often. Not coming from Wales myself, you see! It's a great experience, delving into Welsh ancestry.
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I just wanted to add that I've started a series of blog posts about this album on my wordpress website (link on the left), for anyone who might be interested. I'll try to give credit to this forum as much as I can, because without your help I'd still be stuck! And I plan to post here too if & when I find out more.
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Another possibility? Ewythr is the Welsh for uncle - perhaps Stiniog is a diminutive of Festiniog, as in Blaenau Festiniog, so Ewythr Stiniog Brawd Taid would be Uncle Stiniog, Granddad's Brother.
Correct, Stiniog is a diminutive of Ffestiniog, Uncle Stiniog,grandads brother. Wasn't Sgybor ddu in Tanygrisiau?
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Ewythr Stiniog, Stiniog is how we shorten Ffestiniog. And Ysgubor Ddu was once a small farm in Tanygrisiau, a mile out of Blaenau Ffestiniog.
We have a local historian group here in Blaenau Ffestiniog who do excellent work gathering story’s, photos, recording history of the town and it’s community. They have a small exhibition here in town with many historical photographs. There are a couple of faces from your photographs that I recognise, and I am positive if you were to show/share them with our local history society group, they will help identify them. If you would like help contacting Blaenau historians society please leave a message via private mail
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Interesting to see this old thread revived. The OP hasn’t been logged in for a couple of years but if she has the same email address she should be notified of your post.
I am not an expert but the large group photo I think dates prior to 1890, so if the photographer whose name is stamped on the back of this photo was active in the early 1900s this might be a reprint.
The other photos are later. At a guess, late 1890s?
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Boys were indeed dressed as girls,it was the custom until they were five or so and “ breeched” ie put into trousers but the standing child is older than five.
It may be a girl with shaven head after say an illness like scarlet fever,when it was often done.
Also many people thought that to shave a girl’s head would make the hair much thicker and stronger.
I see a sort of bow/Rosette with long streamers on her tartan dress,it looks dark.
Could it be a sign of mourning I wonder,either a family member or even Queen Viktoria 1901.
What an interesting find,how a family can let something like that go is beyond me..
Best of luck, keep us posted.
Viktoria.
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It is a shame to see family treasures such as these which are thrown away, however in this case the OP thinks it might have come from a house clearance so a slightly different set of circumstances - possibly the end of the family line, no known relatives and the entire contents of the home were disposed of. Luckily this has now gone to a good home.
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Thanks everyone... I'm still here! ;D And thrilled that this old thread is still of interest. Thanks elacass, for your suggestions, and I'll be in touch via private mail. It's a while since I thought about this album (which I still have) so will have to refresh my memory. I don't remember coming across Tanygrisiau before so look forward to finding out more.
I have a habit (compulsion) of collecting old photographs. I don't understand how people can get rid of them either. I buy them to research the family and often share them on a blog I keep. I've found that the photos usually come from the end of a family line, as Ruskie says. I did have one success last year though, where the owner had lost some photos during a house move. I picked them up online from someone who had bought them at auction, and they were reunited with their original owner/family!
So it would be wonderful to find out more about this Welsh album. I'll keep you all posted :)
I've just been re-reading the thread and realised mandywills mentioned Tanygrisiau too. Sorry, I missed that post at the time... :(
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Ewythr is welsh for uncle - Dad's brother.