RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Churchie on Monday 27 April 15 06:39 BST (UK)
-
My Grandfather George Church - regimental number 179846 Royal Field Artillery was in France from 30/5/17 till 24/9/18 when he was evacuated after being gassed.
I had hoped to find his regimental war diary on line, but have come unstuck, as I can't interpret the information in his records.
I definitely have Royal Field Artillery, and some very sketchy handwriting that looks like:
D/4 R.Bde
13th Reserves Batt
and 3rd Reserves
Here's his casualty form - can anybody help me with all the abbreviations?
Many thanks,
Caroline.
-
I can't see anything on that form which would point at a meaingful war diary. The only overseas posting given is the RH&RF Base Depot - to which all RHA & RFA men would be sent for onward posting to units in the field. You need to know which unit(s) he served with at the front in order to find their war diary.
-
That's what I'm trying to find out. I'm not sure how to interpret the records - I don't know what the abbreviations mean.
I have a full set of records, but obviously am not allowed to post them all on here, but here are two more. It's easy to find his record set based on the information I've given.
Caroline.
-
Looking at the Enlistment Papers on that well known site, it looks like he was possibly with 162nd Brigade RFA, 33rd Division. I've had a look and there doesn't seem to be a diary for them available to view for that date
He was probably wounded during one of the battles of the Lys.
You could try posting your query on another forum, possibly the Great War Forum, there are a few resident Artillery experts active on there.
David
-
Thank you David, I appreciate your help. I will give it a try and report back if successful.
It would have been great to know what happened to the poor fellow.
Caroline.
-
I agree with 162 Brigade RFA - joined them in the field on 7 Nov 1917. Got leave to UK in Feb 1918 and was gassed - admitted to Field Ambulance on 19 Sep 1918.
This was during the 100 days - when the British were advancing all along the front so the date is no help in determining where he was. But the war diary gives details http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353802 or on Ancestry.
They were at Troisvilles - near Le Cateau, the BEF were revisiting old ground. The 33 Division would cross the Selle a few days after he was gassed.
They were firing gas on 17 Sep, it is possible that it was British gas that got him!
There is no entry for 18 or 19 Sep - but it does record 2 men 'Wounded (gas)' during the month. The diary is very uncommunicative in terms of day to day casualties/enemy action - apart from the monthly casualty list you'd think they were only attacked once that month (on 10th).
-
Thank you both so very much for pointing me in the right direction, as I didn't know where to start, or how to interpret the information that I had.
It'll take me a while to read through the diary, though I have already looked at the places you mentioned, thanks to the wonder of Google earth.
I know I'm lucky to have the records for George, but I still know so little about his service, or about how he ended up dying so young, and every little bit makes me greedy for more!
Thanks again,
Caroline.
-
Caroline,
That's no problem glad to be able to help.
If he'd been gassed the chances are it would have been in some way linked to that. Most probably respitory problems if you have his death certificate it may mention it on there.
Regards
David
-
I still need help...feel like a right fool.
Hello Newburychap, I searched for, and found RFA, 33 Division of 162 Brigade (well, I think so) but it seems to have totally different entries to those you have quoted. I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. I'm using Ancestry, but it appears to be the same record set as the link to that on the National Archives site?
David, yes you are right, poor George died of lung cancer. My aunt was taken to visit him in hospital, but my father and uncle were considered too naughty and were left at home, so they remembered nothing of it - probably a mercy, as he died in terrible pain.
I did interpret a little more of the original records, and found he had been admitted to the St Louis Hospital Base 21 unit in Rouen, which was interesting - there is a marvellous website about it, with a good image gallery. Might be old news to you, but here's the link:
http://beckerexhibits.wustl.edu/gh21/ww1/
Caroline.
-
Based on this thread so far, can anyone look at this photo and identify anything about the regiment from their uniforms? I am hoping for a better scan, but I believe George may be the seated man in the bottom left corner, with the moustache.
Many thanks,
Caroline.
-
Hi Caroline,
Judging by the flags, binoculars and crossed flag badges on the sleeves this group looks like a bunch of signallers?
David
:)
-
Also pre war Territorial annual camp possibly.
-
Most probably, two of them have the "Imperial Service" badge above the right breast pockets.
-
Looking at his service record he hasn't declared that he was a member of the reserves or had any previous military service prior to joining in 1916, this could be a post war camp around 1919 to 1920 before medals were issued?
-
if this was a post war camp it would have to be 1920.
These men are wearing the pre 1916 economy tunic. The pleated pockets returned I believe early 20's but this would be after the IS Badge ceased.
Although I can't make out the shoulder titles it isn't RFA/RHA.
Not RE either so at least 4 of them are Regt'l Signallers.
You can see clearly the man bottom left has the "T" above denoting Territorial.
-
Caroline,
How confident are you that it's George?
-
As an aside I notice you had some problem with the Bde. diary.
I've looked at it & on the day he was admitted there were no reported gas attacks, however on the 23rd. the Bde. HQ & B Bty/162 were gassed so maybe someone got the date wrong.
His service record says he joined B Bty. 162 Bde. 9/11/17.
By the end of the month there were 65 reported gas casualties.
The Batteries were in & around W9 on this map on the day he was admitted.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101465197
-
Thanks for the input everyone.
I was not certain it is George at all, and this pretty much eliminates him.
I've only ever seen 2 photos of my grandfather, taken later in his life. The bottom left fellow looks uncannily like him, but with the cap on it is limited to his facial features.
This photo was found in a box of my uncle's things after he died recently, and we had no other information about it, so had hoped it might be his father, George.
As George was first enlisted in 1916 and was wounded and discharged after a long period in hospital I think I was barking up the wrong tree...wishful thinking.
I searched for the name of the photographer and found a couple of posts on other forums which indicate this may be one of a series of photos taken at Epping Forest, Essex, of the 2/8th Worcestershire's camp in Summer 1915. Speculation there was also that the uniforms are those of territorials.
I'll go back through the other family members where I am lucky enough to have records and see if anyone else might fit.
It's just unusual for my uncle to have kept the photo, as his father died when he was very young. There was a strange mention by my aunt of grandfather having two brothers who died of wounds around the same time, but having done extensive research I have never found any evidence that they existed, and think she may have got their relationship wrong.
Many thanks for your help,
Caroline.
-
As an observation I noticed the (whatever it is) at the front of the photo has a number on it.
I have seen similar on other annual camp photos.
If you look closely you will see what looks like the number 47.
Even post Childer's reform many Regiments still referred to themselves by their old pre 1881 number.
In this case the 47th. Regt. of Foot morphed into the Loyal North Lancs. Regt.
Might be way off base of course but something to consider.