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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: BAC3 on Saturday 02 May 15 16:32 BST (UK)
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Hello,
My middle-range Ancestry subscription does not allow me to access the above records......I need "Worldwide".....and I wonder if someone has that facility they could help with the information contained in the entries for two convicts who were admitted to the Darlinghurst Gaol and then transferred to Cockatoo Island:
(1): George SIMMONDS admitted 24/04/1848 transferred 06/12/1848: date of birth 1827, Middlesex, arrived Port Phillip per "Maitland" 09/11/1846;
(2): William JONES (alias Christopher FARRELL, Henry SHAW) admitted 28/11/1848 transferred 06/12/1848: date of birth 1828, Staffordshire, arrived Port Phillip per Marion 25/01/1848.
Whatever information can be gleaned about these two re-offending "Exiles" would be helpful....I have tried TROVE but attempting to follow their tracks via paper reports has not proved easy.
Thank you for any help you can offer.
BAC3
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George Simmonds
Arrival year 1846 date of admission 24/4/1848
Darlinghurst N S W
entry 531 George Simmonds b London ..looks like shoemaker
3 years labour Cockatoo Island 6 Dec 1848
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Thanks rosie17,
Have you any idea what happened to George SIMMONS after he arrived at Cockatoo Island? When was he released, for instance? Did he receive any retributive treatment, bread and water!!?? Just a hope!!
BAC3
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Have you looked on trove for Christopher Farrell residence Geelong 1859 1889 N S W Police Gazettes
Henry Shaw alias Christopher Farrell b Liverpool England 1828
Ship Marion 1847 arrival year 1847
Labourer religion protestant can read and write
Hair Black eyes grey height 5ft 8 1/4
12/8/1869 Burglary 7 Larceny 10years
14/8/1872 stabbing a fellow prisoner 10years
1872 to Banna Jail ( not sure if that is right as the writing hard to make out )
5/11/187? sentence remitted
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Christopher Farrell alias Henry Williams alias Bowen and Frederick Clarke alias Josha Edmontson escaped from Geelong Gaol along with other 2 prisoners his age 62 described as very dangerous
A bit of a rogue I would say :D
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rosie17
You will have recognised now the difficulty I had researching TROVE and trying to find some
chronology to his serial re-offending. You have mentioned a few dates and possibly I can work the jigsaw round those particular pieces. All highly entertaining. ???
A multi-named rogue/scoundrel, you have added several more aliases ::) However, I do know he died in Geelong Gaol in 1895 of pneumonia and debility, so I have the edges of the jigsaw.
Thank you for your help
BAC3
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Your welcome at least you know what happened to him as you have his death ...obviously he never changed ;D
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Have you looked on trove for Christopher Farrell residence Geelong 1859 1889 N S W Police Gazettes
Henry Shaw alias Christopher Farrell b Liverpool England 1828
Ship Marion 1847 arrival year 1847
Labourer religion protestant can read and write
Hair Black eyes grey height 5ft 8 1/4
12/8/1869 Burglary 7 Larceny 10years
14/8/1872 stabbing a fellow prisoner 10years
1872 to Banna Jail ( not sure if that is right as the writing hard to make out )
5/11/187? sentence remitted
I think it is Berrima Gaol.
BAC3, if you can get to a library which has free access there are photos in those records.
Another conviction in 1883 for stealing in a dwelling house - John SHAW alias Christy FARRELL. Sentence 5 years on the roads; he had aged considerably by then.
Have you seen his records on PROV; more aliases there!!
http://prov.vic.gov.au/research/prisoners-and-convicts
Debra :)
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Not sure if this is him ... career of a criminal .
Christopher FARRELL alias James and Thomas SHAW born 1828 in Liverpool .... "for the past forty years has seldom been out of gaol".
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article8558405
cheers,
Ros
adding :
Christy FARRELL alias Thomas or James SHAW escape and some history 1889
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article146674774
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13743516
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article132180237
Henry Shaw alias Christopher FARRALL burglary 1869
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article60890971
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article60835889
Henry SHAW alias Christopher FARRELL attempted murder 1872
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/cite/1453273/13261997
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article162662559
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Dundee and rosball,
Thank you for all the help, I am extremely grateful, especially's rosball's initial TROVE citation presenting a potted criminal history of William JONES, Farrell's proper name. As I mentioned earlier to rosie17 the number of aliases is bewildering, but with the help of the PROV reference, which I was completely unaware of, I might eventually paint a very full picture of him, including a description of his youth and upbringing from the Parkhurst Prison Governor's Log that runs to about 300 words!!!
By the way I live in the UK (Hampshire) but spent a very happy 10 years in Melbourne at a time convict ancestors were decidedly frowned upon........the 6 o'clock swill was still in full swing then too 8)
The Biography of William JONES calls ;D.
Once again my thanks for your help.
Tony
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George Percy Simmons born ~1827 married Ellen Wilkins about 1851 in Geelong, Victoria, Australia.
Her father had a Shoe shop where George had found employment.
They had 4 children that I have found, one of which was my great grandmother.
How difficult will it be to find more on his ancestors, since at present I have no idea of even who his parents were.
Any help appreciated, I live in Jamaica so access to many records not that easy unless they are online.
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Hi rjlanc,
Welcome to rootschat :)
From the victorian BDM https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/research-and-family-history/search-your-family-history I see he died in 1873
Death 1873
George SIMMONS, no parents names, birth place London, age 47, spouse at death Ellen WILKINS, reg 10368/1873
Do you have the marriage certificate? I see he married Ellen WILKINS in 1851 reg 23545/1851.
The marriage cert should give his parents' names and you can download it directly from the website.
Ros
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The marriage predates civil registration.
The details of the marriage are as given , but further detail...
Christ Church Geelong, Fiche 349
http://www.christchurchgeelong.com.au/Archives/Page546.htm#Archive access
Sue
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Sue,
will ask someone to contact them and see about Fiche 349.
I note however that 1851 is not included for Marriages in their listing of records:
The historic documents/ archive materials that are held in the Christ Church collection -
1. copy of Baptism Registers including baptisms for September 1843-July 1853 (2 volumes), and for September 1843- July 1909 (6 volumes).
2. Original Baptismal Registers for 1853-1860, 1860-1909, 1909-1993, 1993 to date.
3. copy of Marriage Registers for 1853-1859, 1853-1854, 1853-1912 (2 volumes).
4. Original Marriage Registers for 1853, 1854-1855, 1855-1857, 1857-58, 1858-1959, 1859-1863, 1865-1875, 1875-1897, 1898-1938 (4 volumes), 1939-1954 (3 volumes), 1955-1963 (2 volumes), 1963 to date (5 volumes).
5, Banns of Marriages Register 1960-1968.
6. copy of Burial Registers for 1846-1853, 1853-1877 (2 volumes).
7. Original Burial Registers 1853-1854, 1854-1863, 1863-1902, 1922-1965 (3 volumes), 1966-1994, and 1994 to date.
8. Original Registers of Services for 1859-1885, 1911-1925 (3 volumes), 1926-1929, 1930-1933, 1933-1941, 1941-1948, 1948-1958, 1955-1959, 1959-1961, 1961-1981, 1991-2000, 2000 to date.
9. Confirmation Registers 1995 to date.
Thanks
Robert
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Hi Robert
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4778700
During the investigation of the robbery in Geelong, Your George SIMMONS, as a witness, admits to previously knowing one of the accused men, SUFFOLK.
Knew him at Cockatoo Island.
Now I am not sure if this is the right track here but, Cockatoo Island, NSW was a penal settlement at one time.
https://heritagecouncil.vic.gov.au/research-projects/industrial-heritage-case-studies/cockatoo-island/
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It may be worthwhile inquiring at the Christ Church archives for baptisms for children of your couple.
I would have thought a baby might have been born a little earlier than 1857, which is the first registration to them on the civil index in Vic. ;D
Sue
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Sue,
I had seen this one..
http://barwonblogger.blogspot.com/2013/07/bail-up.html
Name of Maitland Exile from Parkhurst Prison (many via Millbank Prison)
SIMMONDS George (George Simmons): M 1213; Pk 363; Darlinghurst Gaol No. 531 (tr. to Cockatoo Island)
admitted Darlinghurst 24/04/1848 transferred Cockatoo Island 06/12/1848: date of birth 1827, Middlesex, arrived Port Phillip per "Maitland" 09/11/1846;
Background information on Parkhurst Prison for the year 1846
when 50 inmates were exiled to Port Phillip
https://books.google.com.jm/books?id=3QI5AQAAMAAJ
Robert
and yes their first son was born in 1853 at Newtown so maybe Baptised at Christ Church.
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Probably his trial record..
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=def1-440-18440101&div=t18440101-440#highlight
Sue
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Team
My gr gr gr grandfather was also ex ‘Maitland’ in 1846 and was too in Geelong. Looks like he stayed ‘clean’ though!
He married at Christchurch Cathedral Geelong in 1852 and I’m afraid the cert won’t tell you much. The only added info you will get are the witnesses, no parents or birth places are mentioned or are there spaces for them.
Bitzar.
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Sue,
Thanks
That definitely sounds like the right case (1 Jan 1844) and aged 16.
Wow, transported for 10 years for stealing a 4s handkerchief
Presumably he spent nearly 2 years at Parkhurst since he arrived in Australia in Nov 1846.
Somehow he ended up in Sydney in 1848 and then was in Geelong by May 1851.
So this suggests he was released/pardoned about 1850.
Robert
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Sue,
2014 PhD thesis Univ of Melbourne Colleen Ruth Wood
Great Britain's exiles sent to Port Phillip, Australia, 1844-1849: Lord Stanley's experiment
https://minerva-access.unimelb.edu.au/handle/11343/51010
Appendix 19 (b): Exiles who committed one offence on board the Maitland, and the punishments inflicted.
Name Prison Offence Date Punishment
George Simmonds Parkhurst Striking one of the boys 23.8.1846 Bread and water, and confined below one week.
Appendix 24:
Simmons was one of 86 Exiles known to have Re-offended in Australia
Name Prison & ship Disposal Details Source
George Simmonds Parkhurst Maitland Not specified
In the Melbourne Supreme Court on 21.2.1848, Simmonds was found guilty of uttering. He was sentenced to hard labour on the roads for three years.
Keith Clarke. Convicts of the Port Phillip District, 1999.
UHL Index No. 442
This is probably why he ended up at Cockatoo Island
Robert
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I am sure you are on the right track.
I have not been able to find his previous occupation before offending.
It is possible he was connected with the shoe-making business previously, but also possible he was not, as shoe -making was one of the trades which the men were encouraged to take on in Australia.
Have not had luck locating a baptism for him :-\
Sue
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Bitzar,
Thanks I'll save my money and hope I can find another way to determine his father's name.
Robert
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Sue,
George certainly worked in a shoe/boot shop in 1851 and married the bosses daughter.
A note from BAC3 listed his occupation when appearing at the Old Bailey or at Parkhurst when being admitted as Tailor.
His father-in-law was Thomas and his eldest son was named Thomas. I had seen a Baptism record for a George born in London in 1827 to a Thomas but no idea if that is him and not sure if he would name his son after him or after his in-law or maybe named for someone else entirely. Too many variables.
Robert
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Just to note that there was a George SIMMONS who served 1 month in Goulburn Gaol. The Entrance Book for Goulburn notes the following:
1851
572
(Name) George Simmons
(ship of arrival, year) Runnymead, 1846
(Free or Bond): (on arrival) F; (On entering Gaol) F
(native place) London
(religion) Protestant
(Trade or profession) Shoemaker
(Admitted): 10th September; (whence) Yass; (Purpose) 1 months imprisonment
(Disposed of): (How) Discharged; (When) 2nd October
(Behaviour in Gaol) :Orderly
So there's more than one English born chap by that name, and with that trade in the general area in the 'right' time frame to head off to Victoria with gold fever in 1851
ADD, Ancestry have mis-transcribed the ship as Rungmird, and year of arrival as 1840. The image shows 1846 and Runnymead. The original scribe used a scratched, wornout pen.
ADD 2 .... I can see several chaps recorded as Geo SIMMONS... in NSW in late 1840s
JM
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Thanks MAJM,
given the court case against Suffolk after the mail coach robbery in 1851 it is pretty clear that the George Percy Simmons I am chasing was on the Maitland and had been at Cockatoo Island.
I had noted another George Simmons in the area but I seem to recall his age did not correspond to my relative.
Robert
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Hi Robert, Do you know where George Percy SIMMONS died?
clancam37
Bitzar,
Thanks I'll save my money and hope I can find another way to determine his father's name.
Robert
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Thanks MAJM,
given the court case against Suffolk after the mail coach robbery in 1851 it is pretty clear that the George Percy Simmons I am chasing was on the Maitland and had been at Cockatoo Island.
I had noted another George Simmons in the area but I seem to recall his age did not correspond to my relative.
Robert
Yes, but I think you may need to keep a note of the others where the details that can be found about them do not give sufficient depth to rule them out .... the chap I posted was a shoe maker, same as your chap ... and had at least one NSW colonial conviction in the right era ... As Bitzar mentioned, the parish records prior to Vic commencing civil registration are scant on family history. And of course, Vic was hived off NSW in 1851. Well the NSW parish records are of course, just as scant on family history until civil registration commenced in NSW in 1856. And, because of the gold rushes in NSW and Vic from 1851, the movement of people within the two colonies AND from around the globe usually means that 1850s and 1860s searchings need to continue to cast a wide net rather than restrict those searchings.
JM
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Dear Clancam37
from https://my.rio.bdm.vic.gov.au/efamily-history
I think this is George Percy Simmons given he is listed here as husband of Ellen Wilkins.
Record information
Event: deaths
Registration number 10368 / 1873
Family name:SIMMONS
Given name(s)George
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Dear Clancam37
from https://my.rio.bdm.vic.gov.au/efamily-history
I think this is George Percy Simmons given he is listed here as husband of Ellen Wilkins.
Record information
Event: deaths
Registration number 10368 / 1873
Family name:SIMMONS
Given name(s)George
Yes, the death index for ref 10368/1873 gives
George SIMMONS, born LOND, age 47, spouse at death Ellen WILKINS. It seems the names of his parents were not known to the informant as they are not displayed on that index.
and
the marriage index for ref 23545/1851 gives
Ellen WILKINS and George Percy SIMMONS
:D :D
I am likely duplicating information already posted by others, so I am confirming the index entries :D
JM
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Hi Robert,
The Victorian BMD makes no reference to where he died. Have looked on TROVE in 1872/1873 no Death Notices.
Confirm --- are you looking for his Father's name? If so his Gravestone may yield some clue, will try some local sites.
Regards
clancam37
Thanks MAJM,
given the court case against Suffolk after the mail coach robbery in 1851 it is pretty clear that the George Percy Simmons I am chasing was on the Maitland and had been at Cockatoo Island.
I had noted another George Simmons in the area but I seem to recall his age did not correspond to my relative.
Robert
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Yes, I am still hoping to somehow find more about his ancestors. It could well be though that he had no idea of his parents. IGI shows a few George Simmons born in London in 1826-1828 and he may be one or none of them...
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Yes, I am still hoping to somehow find more about his ancestors. It could well be though that he had no idea of his parents. IGI shows a few George Simmons born in London in 1826-1828 and he may be one or none of them...
Hi Robert,
I feel I must caution against pinning hopes on a headstone for information.
Such memorials were usually erected by loved ones around the time of death and if the parental names were not known for the death registration, it seems unlikely they would be known for a memorial inscription.
As I guess you already know, Ellen (nee WILKINS) is buried at St Kilda Cemetery, Melbourne with her mother, Ellen WILKINS. The is not a MI. I have checked a source.
https://sbc.smct.org.au/deceasedsearch/
Sue
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Do you have the Birth certificates for any of George's children after civil registration?
Your gg grandmother Elizabeth for instance.
There is a possibility George ( or the person registering the birth) may have been more specific about his age and birthplace.
It could help.
Sue