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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: brigidmac on Saturday 02 May 15 22:12 BST (UK)

Title: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 02 May 15 22:12 BST (UK)
My father never knew his cousins or even how many he had
 his father Thomas MacDermid b1903 was the 8th of 10 children born between 1885 and 1910
   my  great grandfather Malcom McDermid(various spellings from censuses since 1871) died falling off a roof  when my grandad was 7
   Agnes died in 1920  . My grandfather went to sea + eventually settled in plymouth
most of the siblings emigrated to USA and New zealand some had children
(I wil post on relative area forums to find them )
 . brother Walter died in  Belgium WW1

I'm trying to find if the remaining elder  brothers had any children

Duncan b1882 was a grocers clerk in 1901 aged 18 single  he seems to have died in 1910 but I don't know if he was married or had children

Andrew Kyle Macdermid was a clothlapper in 1911 and married Elizabeth McDiarmid
He was living at 30 dean's avenue in 1929  (given as next of kin on siblings travel documents)
 did he have children? he died in 1964 in east kilbride . Lanarkshire

Malcom Macdermid b1894 was a  boot repairer aged 17  in 1911 ..
in army in 1913  aged 19 single   
no idea what became of him later .

any help would be appreciated .

Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: Chesapek on Saturday 02 May 15 22:42 BST (UK)
What area of lanarkshire did the McDermott from I know there is different spellings of the surname
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 02 May 15 22:59 BST (UK)
 Cambuslang was where most of the children's births are registered
Malcom's parents Duncan Macdermid+Agnes Mcfarlane were b in Pollockshire
Spellings for Malcom  occur as McDearmid   in Census 1871
                                            Mc Diarmid                 1881
                                            McDermid                   1891
                                            Mcdermid                    1901

the d ending is consistent so I think the McDermott's are a different family
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: DonM on Saturday 02 May 15 23:07 BST (UK)
Duncan d 17 Sep 1910 his usual address was Dennistoun.  He was married to Cecelia Robson.  His brother Andrew was the informant.

The informant on Andrew's death registration is a noted as also being a MacDermind but only as an intimate friend.  His wife is listed, not marked deceased so possibly she was still living.

No sign of Malcolm, perhaps he didn't survive the war.

If you want these registrations, send me a PM with your email.

Don


Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 02 May 15 23:21 BST (UK)
Have seen documents sent by .Don

Duncan seems to have somehow drowned in some water tub it's a bit illegible
his wife Celia nee Robson died in 1944 her death was registered by their son  Duncan M.MacDermid 

so sad that Duncan aged 27 died In Sept ,the same year as his father aged 48 had died
Family story is that Malcom fell off a roof but i don't have the death cert to prove it  .

Andrew died in Cumbuslang in 1964 his death is registered by . ?illg initial (mac ?)...Diarmed  an intimate friend residing at a different address to the deceased ... than his spouse tho he was still married to her

The youngest sibling John was born in august 1910 so wouldn't have known his father
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: DonM on Sunday 03 May 15 09:50 BST (UK)
It says he was found drowned in a Water Tank at the Boghead Nursery, Mount Vernon.

From the the 1911 Census, Celia was born in England, their son Duncan (age 6) born in Ireland and a daughter Mary A (age 1), born in Glasgow.

You can obtain the additional registrations and Census from Scot's People http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Sunday 03 May 15 14:06 BST (UK)
Thanks Don i'll have to join Scotlandspeople next time they do free trial

It raises more questions tho ...did he drown while at work , if it was suicide or suspicious there may have been an inquest

 wonder why was eldest son born in Ireland ??

Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: DonM on Sunday 03 May 15 14:32 BST (UK)
It was deemed an accident.

Don
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Sunday 03 May 15 16:48 BST (UK)
I have had help + found  2 New zealand cousins + 5 USA ones.
 wouldn't have found  the  1st Scottish ones if don hadn't looked  at Duncan's wife's death cert which their son duncan registered
 then   gone back to 1911 census to find Celia macdermid with 2 children, he may not have known his daughter  who was born the year he died 1910;

I wonder if Andrew's wifes death registration would reveal a child  ; her maiden name was practically same as married name but spelt Mcdiarmid

still don't know if  Malcolm married or had children ;  am trying to follow suggestions given on here but keep getting sent to different pages on computer ....oh dear .
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 04 May 15 00:29 BST (UK)
success ; found malcolm's marriage in 1921 to lizzie Dougall
he was a master shoemaker aged 27 his brother James witnessed the marriage still living in cumbuslang

also some possible malcom Macdermid s on valuation rolls in 1925 ..i especially liked tenant occupier of shop on main st, lilybank , cambuslang
 

Found Duncan's widow Celia  as a tenant of John Street lane Glasgow  in 1920 + 1925

so she is not the Mrs macdermid of 22 clydeford rd sited as next of kin in 1923 when Chritina + James left for USA

link to Siblings who went to USA  in 1923 ;agnes macdermid , husband James robertson + son james
James macdermid + sister chrissie   + in 1929 John Macdermid

 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719706.msg5635984#msg5635984

+ to Jeannie Macdermid +James Duff black who went to New Zealand

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719708.msg5635585#msg5635585

Malcolm+ elisabeth macdermid on Australian forum
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 04 May 15 17:42 BST (UK)
  helpfully informed by barbara on Rootschat that malcolm macdermid + his wife Elizabeth Dougall Macdermid did emigrate ..
.to Australia in 1953
last address 73 seaforth Av  Ayr
so if they did have children the births should be on the Scottish records ..can i look without knowing their 1st names ??
Title: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 04 May 15 17:59 BST (UK)
i am trying to find out what became of my grandfathers 10 siblings after a poor start in life  .their father  also malcolm was a clothlapper who lived in a croft in mining region of Scotland

apart from a WW1 death + 1 accident the others lived long lives ; 4 emigrated in the 1920's to USA + 1 to NZ

I found Malcolm renting a boot shop in 1925 but didn't know what became of him or his wife Elizabeth Dougall Macdermid b about 1897

They married on 15/07/1921

A very helpful member on chat page found them arriving in Melbourn on 3rd sept 1952

How do i find out if they became Naturalised + stayed

If they did  i've been told Trove may have obituries .not sure what that involves
 
i don't know if this couple had any children .

any help gratefully received .     

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719705.msg5636411#msg5636411 
here's the link to the family's scottish origins

+ the link to sibling Jeanie kyle Macdermid  who went to NZ in 1926 with husband james Duff Black + 2 small children 

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719708.msg5635585#msg5635585 
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: rosie17 on Monday 04 May 15 19:06 BST (UK)
On the Freemantle Western Australia Passenger Lists arriving October 1952 ship name Chitral
address going to is c/o Ives Dunlop Street Yarrowonga Victoria
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: rosie17 on Monday 04 May 15 19:22 BST (UK)
On the Australian Electoral Rolls 1963 there is a Malcolm Macdermid  and Elizabeth Macdermid ( home duties) living at 9,Vera Street Benyleigh Victoria no way of knowing if this is the right couple as there is no occupation for Malcolm
Elizabeth Macdermid at the same address in 1968 but on her own
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 04 May 15 19:46 BST (UK)
  I have posted threads about the other Macdermid siblings on the New Zealand . USA and Scotland(lanakshire) forums .

Thanks for your input  Rosie
I wonder if Home duties is a professional carer 
Malcolm would have been 70 by 1964 even if he needed a carer but I don't suppose caring for your spouse counts as a proffession in NZ either

He was 60ish when he came to NZ  well deserved  retirement. he'd been repairing shoes  at  17  1911 census but probably started aged 14 like his siblibgs in their trades
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 04 May 15 21:53 BST (UK)
i'll have to join Scotlandspeople next time they do free trial

SP is pay-per-view. You can't 'join' it and there is no subscription option. You have to buy credits. As far as I know they do not do 'free trials' though there have been occasional small issues of free credits as promotional stunts by newspapers.
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 04 May 15 21:56 BST (UK)
there may have been an inquest

There are no inquests in Scotland (and no coroners). There has recently been another thread in which this matter was extensively discussed.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719105.0

Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 04 May 15 22:01 BST (UK)

so if they did have children the births should be on the Scottish records
Yes, they should be

Quote
..can i look without knowing their 1st names ??
You can certainly look at the index, but as the online index doesn't include mothers' maiden names, and you can't view birth certificates less than 100 years ago, it's unlikely to be worth it.

If you could go to the Scotland's People Centre in Edinburgh you could look the children up fairly easily, though it might take a while if you have to check lots of variants of the surname.
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 04 May 15 22:31 BST (UK)
I bought credits + have been trying to use them economically ; have some potential children for Malcolm + Andrew macdermid but don't want to waste credits

big discovery

 eldest brother's  Duncan 's   2nd child's birth ;
 
Mary Ann Macdermid born july 22nd 1909
she was down  as illegitimate tho father present at birth

Duncan is "married " to cecelia Robson on his death cert sept 1910

could this explain why first child Duncan aged 6 on 1911 census is down as born ireland ??

 did pregnant "English" celia alfreda Robson aged about 19 go away to have her 1st child Ireland seems an unlikely destination
 
celia is a domestic servant   could she have been looking after little Duncan who was born of a previous marriage

.Duncan Macdermid's death cert sept 1910 has him as married to Cecelia Robson + as living Denistown lanarkshire

the plot thickens
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 04 May 15 22:32 BST (UK)
From a tree on Ancestry they had at least 1 dau

Jean Dougall MacDermid (now deceased but no date)
13 Mar 1927
Redlands Hospital, Glasgow, Scotland

Married 21 Sep 1949 Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland

Had 3 sons of which 1 Ross David Girvan (now Deceased)

They were also in Victoria, Australia from at least 1954

Annie

ADDED...........you would be best adding links to both pages on your initial post to save "double trouble"

posts merged
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 04 May 15 22:40 BST (UK)
Thanks forfar I'll make time to read the link about inquests
thank you ammack ; i saw listing for jean Dougall but no image available .i suppose she could still be alive
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 04 May 15 22:51 BST (UK)
As Forfarian stated earlier you can't view birth certificates less than 100 years ago.

In my last post I put in brackets Jean is now deceased............died in Aussie.

Annie
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 04 May 15 22:51 BST (UK)
here's the link to the Macdermids origins

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719705.msg5636411#msg5636411

apparently Malcolm did have at least 1  married daughter b 1927 who also went to Aus Victoria with husband + 3 sons ...; I won't put details as she could still be living .
But as she has her paternal grandmothers 1st name + mothers maiden name as middle name I see they follow family traditions ;
Couldn't find any Malcolm births in Cambuslang tho ..either they didn't like paternal grandfather + father's name or they were born in different districts .
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 04 May 15 23:02 BST (UK)
You would be best adding links to both pages on your initial post to save "double trouble"

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719705.msg5636411#msg5636411

Annie
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: cando on Monday 04 May 15 23:11 BST (UK)
Deaths
McDERMID Malcolm
Father Malcolm  Mother Jean KYLE
At Oakleigh  72 years  1966  Reg#16130

McDERMID Elizabeth
Father Andrew DOUGALL  Mother Jane DEANS
At Cheltenham  75 years  1973  Reg#2293

Images of certificates may be purchased online [AUD$21] and immediately downloaded
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/family+history+certificates/purchase+an+uncertified+image

Information on death certificates in Victoria.
 Date and place of death;
 name and surname;
 occupation of the deceased;
 sex and age;
 cause of death,
 duration of illness,
 medical attendant by whom certified and when he last saw deceased;
 name and surname of parents (if known) including mother's maiden surname;
 signature, description and address of the person who gave the information; 
 signature of deputy registrar, date and where registered,
 when and where buried,
 undertaker whom certified;
 name and religion of Minister, or names of witnesses of burial;
 place of birth of the deceased and how long he or she resided in the Australian           colonies or states (stating which),
 name of spouse,
 place of marriage,
 age at marriage;
 names and ages of children of the deceased.

Cando

Edit to remove suggested place of burial.  Found by cupoflife :).
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: cupoflife on Monday 04 May 15 23:13 BST (UK)
Springvale Botanical Cemetery
Malcolm Macdermid; Date of Death 6 July 1966; Age 72; Cremated remains collected http://mgc.smct.org.au/deceasedsearch/result/310690
Elizabeth Dougall Macdermid; Date of Death 12 January 1973; Age 75; Cremated remains collected http://mgc.smct.org.au/deceasedsearch/result/378739
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: cando on Monday 04 May 15 23:20 BST (UK)
Australian Electoral Roll
1954 Henty/Oakleigh
McDERMID Elizabeth 12 Bowmore Street, Oakleigh  Shop Assistant
McDERMID Malcolm  12 Bowmore Street, Oakleigh  Repairer

1963 Higginbotham/Bentleigh
McDERMID Elizabeth  Vera Street, Oakleigh South  Home duties
McDERMID Malcolm 9 Vera Street, Oakleigh South  No occupation

Cando


Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: cupoflife on Monday 04 May 15 23:25 BST (UK)
GIRVAN, Jean Dougall; Death12APR2006; age 79, at Bethlehem Hospital; Herald Sun 17APR2006   
Springvale Botanical Cemetery http://mgc.smct.org.au/deceasedsearch/result/704011
Jean Girvan Date of Birth 30 March 1927; Date of Death 12 April 2006; age 79; Cremated remains collected
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: cupoflife on Monday 04 May 15 23:34 BST (UK)
Obituaries Published in Herald Sun on 17/04/2006
GIRVAN, Jean Dougall
http://tributes.heraldsun.com.au/archivenotice/2707406/view?random=1430778797513
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: cando on Monday 04 May 15 23:37 BST (UK)
I think some of this info has been found on another thread.

Cando
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 04 May 15 23:56 BST (UK)
Thanks  for all help cando+ coffee cup  ;
 I don't think this info is on my other threads except the scottish births
which also has info about Malcolms father Duncan and gfather Malcolm
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: cupoflife on Tuesday 05 May 15 04:44 BST (UK)
naa.gov.au
GIRVAN D***** M********* born 17 October 1922; Jean (nee Macdermid) born 30 March 1927; travelled per CAMERONIA departing UK on 20 February 1952 under the Assisted Passage Migration Scheme
Title: Re: malcolm Macdermid b.scotland 1893 emigrated 1952 , then what ?
Post by: brigidmac on Wednesday 18 May 16 23:29 BST (UK)
Jean girven husband name was daniel not don.  b1922

Have a thread on Genes Reunited now in living relatives section in case I'm on dangerous grounds here

Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 12 October 20 01:31 BST (UK)
Update
5 years on from initial posting

Well I think ive traced all of my fathers cousins and what became of them

My aunt is the last living grandchild of this couple

Compared to their parents and grandparents they had small families and few boys

I was beginning to think the Macdermid name was dying out ...rarely used as a middle name after 1940 either .
Have established DNA links in Australia New Zealand + America including one adoptee

None in Scotland ....

The first cousin b 1906  Duncan s descendants were the hardest to find
.He had a son and a daughter

His son had no children and died in Newcastle england

BUT  the person who told me is a MacDERMID  with 3 brothers

Turned out Duncans daughter b 1910 the year he died
Had a son b 1933 who she named Duncan Malcom Macdermid ( after her father & grandfather)
He unfortunately passed away 2000 but has left sons .a daughter .grandsons and great grandchildren

I was really excited by this news + hope I can pass on the family history that  I've ammassed with.your help.

I dont think they knew their grandmothers story .....might have to help them find out about her soldier boyfriend now .....+ hope one of the clan will do DNA too
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 12 October 20 11:55 BST (UK)
I'm passing on the results to descendants worldwide especially those who don't know about their Scottish ancestry and their ancestors reasons for leaving Cambuslang .

Will update with responses .
Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 12 October 20 13:38 BST (UK)
Summary Malcolm MACDERMID and Jeanie KYLE s GRANDCHILDREN

1.Duncan Macdermid b 1905 Belfadst d 1978 sunderland england ..no children

2.Mary Agnes  b 1909 glasgow d 1993 Newcastle upon tyne england ..1 son Duncan malcolm 1933_2000
      5  known grandchildren
______
3.James Malcolm.ROBERTSON b1919 glasgow d 1995  florida USA 3 children b USA
       at least 2 grandchildren Dna match to ggdaughter
_______
4.Jean Dougall macdermid 1927 Glasgow d 2006 Victoria Australia. 2 children

______
5.Jean Rose MACDERMID 1927 b new jersey d 1994 florida USA  m Frederic JAMES 1922_1985 ...1 child ?

6.James Kyle MACDERMID 1930  new York USA  d trails end 1977  no children ?
____
 7  Living in Colchester in her 90s daughter of Thomas Allen Macdermid  2 children

 8 Eric macdermid1930 Glasgow d 2003 grantown on spey Scotland .     3 daughters
_______
9 .Marilyn jean KELLY 1929 new jersey d 1995 USA m george WILLIAMS 1929_2013   3 children
 At least 3 grandchildren Dna match to grandchild

10 .John.Hall Kelly 1931_ 200 new jersey USA.no children
______

Malcolm and jeanies 19  known  GREAT GRANDCHILDREN 
(My   2 second cousins,sisters and cousins:.born between 1933+ 1970   )

Locations
ENGLAND : Newcastle. Colchester  Leicestershire  and Hereford
USA: .florida . new jersey + ?
AUSTRALIA  Victoria
NEW ZEALAND
SWEDEN Gothenburg

I think thats all of them .More may turn up .tho and we know that at least one had a child that was adopted
Dna has managed to link up that birth line .

Title: Re: missing cousins; Descendants of Malcom MacDermid+ Jeannie Kyle ;
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 19 October 20 01:05 BST (UK)
The next generation are now taking DNA tests
Some are showing up on through lines others have small trees or no trees but the DNA matches potential candidates if their grandparents are living I don't know exactly which family membrr they descend from but thru shared matches can be sure which of the missin cousins they descnd from
+ We have contact with the Newcastle cousins twice removed who have not tested DNA who are also starting to have grandchildren of there own