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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: Trees on Monday 04 May 15 11:08 BST (UK)
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Does any one know anything about the history of Blakeland Street ,Small Heath please? The 1861 census shows 24 male and 15 female metal dealers or collectors and a couple of travellers. Was it a street owned by one metal dealer and the others working for him? Was it a settled traveller comunity? The vast majority seem to be born in Sedgley Staffordshire. The families all seem to connect by marriages along the way too. One family always list their children born in Sedgley or Upper Gornal even though they are found in censuses in Birmingham ie John and Mary Lewis are in Aston Street 55 House in 1851 with 3 children born in Sedgley in 1851 then in 1861 they are in Blakeland st with the same children and 2 more all born in Upper Gornal. Did they return to Stafford to have the later children? Most odd if the trees on An..ry are to be believed Mary was the daughter of another family living in Blakeland St so why go back to Stafford for the births? Were they really travellers?
I am confused and curious
Trees ???
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Small Heath didn't get a Parish church until the 1870's so they probably went back to their home Parish for the Christenings. Also Small Heath was in another County so births (officially) should have been registered there.
Small Heath was pretty much just clay & gravel pits with brickmaking the main industry.
By the mid 1800's land was being given over for housing which were mainly for the middle classes but the 2nd. half of the century saw a lot of working class houses being built so they must have been amongst the first tenants or they were in camps in the area which was only used for grazing as the land wasn't suitable for agriculture.
So the metal dealers/collectors could be settled Gypsies or have a Gypsy background.
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Quite a few families in Blakeland Street used St Saviour's in Saltley for christening their children (using addresses of either Blakeland Street or Little Bromwich, the latter being the proper name of the district Blakeland Street was in), including several of the metal dealing families, so the Sedgley connection is even more confusing!
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Many thanks both for your replies I can't find many baptisms with the families I am interested in and wonder if they are non conformist.
The families in Blakeland St in 1861 that I know are on my cousin's tree are the Lewis and Flavells and it looks like the Stanley and Williams families are also connected all from Sedgley or Upper Gornal if you look at this one for John Lewis and go along Blakeland Street you will see what I mean about the Sedgley situation.John Lewis was brother of Jane, Benjamin's son Benjamin married Hannah Williams who is also in Bakeland St in 1861 It was a very close community.
RG 9/ 2186 fo65 p16
Trees
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Well, there was certainly a lot of non-conformism in the Black Country, and Sedgley and Upper Gornal were no exception, but it looks like they settled for the nearest option for Blakeland Street in St Saviour's after a while - lots of LEWIS and FLAVELL baptisms (including for the children of Benjamin and Hannah) and others in that street from about 1860 onwards. If these are of interest, the St Saviour's registers are available on Ancestry, or if you do not have access to that, I have my own transcription of the registers.
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Oh dear it seems An..ry have a register missing for Saltley St Saviours they have
1849-1865
1888-1894
1894-1898
I have looked right through the first register and only found one Flavell Harriett to James and Hannah mind he too was a metal Dealer so he may fit in as brother to Benjamin. But please can I ask you for the Benjamin and Hannah baptisms
It is most kind of you to offer this help.
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Ah yes - one of the registers was in very poor condition when I was making my transcription (well before the books were put online), so presumably they couldn't use it. Anyway, here are the Benjamin and Hannah baptisms (the last two items are Benjamin's trade and the address, as given in the register):
Sarah. born 3 Jun 1868, bapt 22 Nov 1868, metal dealer, Blakeland Street Little Bromwich
Joseph, born 8 Jul 1869, bapt 28 Dec 1873, steel caster, Little Bromwich
John, born 18 Aug 1870, bapt 25 Jan 1872, fathers trade Iron bedstead maker, address Little Bromwich
Parthena, born 1 Mar 1872, bapt 28 Dec 1873, steel caster, Little Bromwich
Benjamin, born 18 Nov 1873, bapt 28 Dec 1873, steel caster, Little Bromwich
Edward, born 15 Jul 1875, bapt 12 Sep 1875, metal dealer, Blakeland Street
Note three of the children are baptised together, even though born at different dates.
There is a possible burial for the child John at St Saviours, on 6 Feb 1872, age given as 1 year and 5 months.
Hope this helps.
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That is brilliant many thanks its good to see they were settled enough to have the children baptised. I'll check the other connected families and may ask for a further look up if that's alright. The name Parthena, sounds quite Romany to me I think I'll pop a question on the travellers board in case anyone there has come across these metal collectors/dealers etc its a very interesting find a bit different from the usual Ag Labs. and labourers which make up the majority of my own tree.
For interest is Blakeland Street anywhere near Stechford? I seem to remember being shown Little Bromwich hospital and being told it was where the small pox victims were being treatred way bak was it in the early 60's i think my grandparents lived in Stechford.
:) Trees
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Stechford is the next district along, to the east of Blakeland Street, the boundary being the River Cole, maybe half a mile away. The hospital used to be the infectious diseases hospital, but in recent years has grown and it is now Heartlands Hospital, which is about a quarter of a mile east of Blakeland Street.
If you want any more entries from the St Saviour's records, just ask.
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Again many thanks you have been most helpful
:)
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I used to go to Sunday school in Blakeland street,it was always well known for tat dealers or rag and bone men.
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Thanks for that Derekwg I think that adds to my thoughts of a settled traveller community.
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Taking a second look at the Blkakeland Street questiuon.
I have found a confusing situation.
I realise I had confused Blakenall Street Small Heath and Blakeland Street Little Bromwich
I know Benjamin Flavell and his family lived in Blakland St in Little Bromwich yet his probate says he lived at Blakeland street Small Heath. Similarly on Isaac Flavell's probate(in 1858) his son's adress was Blakenall St Small Heath(John WILLIAMS metal dealer was living in BLAKELAND ST in 1861) both families being Metal Dealers.
So now I am totally confused but as most records found are for Blakeland Street I will concertrate on that one. Does anyone know anything about the history of this street in Little Bromwich was it a traditional travellers camp ? were the houses owner ocupied or rented? Who ownedthem? Was there a metal yard in the street? Why did it atract so many Sedgely Traveller families?
Hope you can throw some light on its history
Many thanks
Trees
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Taking a second look at the Blkakeland Street questiuon.
I have found a confusing situation.
I realise I had confused Blakenall Street Small Heath and Blakeland Street Little Bromwich
I know Benjamin Flavell and his family lived in Blaklend St in Little Bromwich yet his probate says he lived at Blakeland street Small Heath. Similarly on Isaac Flavells probate his son's adress was Blakenall St Small Heath both families being Metal Dealers.
So now I am totally confused but as most records found are for Blakeland Street I will concertrate on that one. Does anyone know anything about the history of this street in Little Bromwich was it a traditional travellers camp ? were the houses owner ocupied or rented? Who ownedthem? Was there a metal yard in the street? Why did it atract so many Sedgely Traveller families?
Hope you can throw some light on its history
Many thanks
Trees
Blakeland Street is classed as in Bordesley Green,there were quite a few scrapyards in that area including rag merchants but I'm not sure whether there was any in Blakeland Street,not in my time ( 1960ish)....there should be a history of Little Bromwich via the internet,there was fever hospital there many years ago.
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You could also try the Birmingham History Forum,there is quite a few experts on there who know Brum inside out.
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My family are also Blakeland Street Metal dealers. They are the Fullards, my great great grandmother is Betsy Fullard (1843 - 1913), daughter of Hannah Baines and John Fullard. Her younger brother married Hannah Flavell. The Fullards occupied three adjacent houses in Blakeland Street, and a fourth further down, and are frequently listed on Census and other documentation as Metal Dealers/Hawkers/Travelers. Many (including Betsy) born in Sedgley, Gornal or Ruiton, so they fit with the above comments. I have not managed to find any further details about Hannah Baines. If anyone has any advice on the Fullards, I would appreciate it. My mother grew up around the corner but had family still living in Blakeland Street. She recalls that there were yards, or possible stable areas, and hat the space would fit with metal dealing, and there was a foundry that Betsy's husband, William, worked in.
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Hello Heather glad to meet you and welcome you to ROOTS CHAT the friendliest and most useful family history site.
At the moment we are busily trying to up date our FLAVELL tree which you will find on our web sit: http://www.mcmullin.plus.com/FLAVELL
Can you tell me which Hannah FLAVELL married your Fullard or a rough date of birth for her, then I hope I'll be able to give you plenty of background to her family
Its a very interesting family to follow I'd love to share data with you. Looking forward to hearing from you
Trees
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OK doing a bit of searching I am assuming the Hannah FLAVELL you mention is the one who married Edward FULLARD in St Phillips in 1870?
Theat marriage gives her daughter of Benjamin so I think this is the one:
Baptism in Sedgley 12 Nov 1848
born in Ruiton 23 Sep 1848
Parents Benjamin & Jane FLAVELL
father was a Labourer
Jane was nee Lewis
On the 1861 census she was the 7th of 12 children her father was a general dealer and the oldest five siblings all metal dealers living in Blakeland St.
Hannah was a sister of My Cousin's Gt Grand Mother so you are a reasonably close relations
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Hi Trees. Yes that's the one. I have a copy of the marriage certificate. Edward is the brother of my great great grandmother, Betsy FULLARD. Their parents are John FULLARD and Hannah BAINES. Groom and both fathers listed as Metal Dealers on the certificate.
I found a couple in the 1911 census that may be them, sadly in the workhouse at the age of 61. My mom remembers FLAVELLS from her childhood, but not exact names, she pronounced it 'Flayvell'.
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How sure are you that John Fullard was married to Hannah Baines? there was a John Fullwood marrying a Hannah HILL 23 Mar 1823 in Sedgley she was baptised 05 Jul 1807 daughter of Daniel and Mary Hill so the age still fits with the censuses Hannah Hill was born in Coseley about 2 miles from Ruiton
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Pretty sure, and my mother knows the name. There are a couple of John FULLARDS per generation, and Hannahs it gets quite confusing, but and I have Betsy's birth certificate with her mother's maiden name as BAINES, and her marriage certificate but that just says Hannah FULLARD. My mom has a sampler made by Betsy, with her birthday on so we know that we have an accurate date.
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Great so I must look for a BAINES Have to go now back later
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I hit a wall with BAINES, I cannot find anything. Just gone back and checked a few things, Betsy and her husband William lived with Hannah, census puts Hannah at 62 in 1871, so that fits with birth date of 1808, 1807 would have been too early. It gives me a headache, and records can get a bit vague.
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Well I too have drawn a blank I have searched for Baines Banes Baynes and the singular and even Caines etc as on one census the word Carter looks like Barter, GRO index clearly gives mother's maiden name as BAINES for EDWARD born 28 NOV 1848 ( from his baptism shown on Free REG)
Can any one else help us find HANNAH baines born about 1809 Staffordshire please?