RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: selinat on Monday 04 May 15 15:29 BST (UK)
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Help please with any of the above families and other Gypsy families connected to them.Especially looking for William Proctor father of Elizabeth Ireland nee Proctor.
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Hi Selina i have replied to your message i cant tell you a huge amount about the Bostocks and Calladines, im still researching them myself, my lot where mostly based in whittington moor derbyshire. They would go back there each winter to restock on pottery from the pot factories there and then off they would travel all down the west coast of england to wales selling the wares. Would love to know a lot more about the gypsy earthenware dealers.
Tracey
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We have much information on the Bostock, Calladine and Scarratts in particular and continue to uncover still more. If you can give an idea of what you are looking for.
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Hello aziliz. still working away at our people. I havent found much more on them as yet. maybe one day i will get up to derbyshire, i hope there is information to be found. i keep looking at them but i dont find anything new. they do fascinate me though. i would like to find out more about the gypsy earthenware dealers in general as well as our own folk.
Tracey
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My family were pot hawkers ,mostly Yorkshire and the North of England .Burnsides and Wilsons .My mam told me her grandparents Hannah Burnside and Andrew Wilson had a pot wagon they married in 1874 some idea of date .
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Hi
I want to trace my son's Great grandmother. Her maiden name was Margaret Proctor. She was married to Joseph Smith. I believe both were from traveller families.
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Hi
Do you have any more information about Margaret? where was she born?
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Hi. All. My family's Mitchell. Dale. Miller's. Etc. Were all earthenware. Pot dealer's./hawkers. Going back to burslem staffs.1740s . usually seconded.saltware. but fancy china as time went by. Selling at fairs. Weekly markets. And door to door. We travelled as far as Liverpool. It had Lots of pot factories back then.so lots of seconded pottery. Olso Lancashire.and Cumberland. Yorkshire.down south. In 1747 Jesse Mitchell Wed Sarah evens.In Liverpool. Then we seem to go everywhere. In the country. And the rest is history as they say. But I have lots of pot selling travellers in all my family's. Seems something most of us did back then. But hawking and dealing. Horse trading were olso a main. or secondary work. As ever we turn a hand to anything. we used to camp with the calladines. Many year's back. Good crack. Nice people. Lots of gypsy travellers. Were agents for the factories. Taking china s.o.r. as they could sell. But not pay for the pots. Tipping out earnings.after a few weeks And taking a cut. As they got more money they could buy outright.and travelled further. Hope It may help. A bit. Regards Rob
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No other information unfortunately. I have searched census records and births. Margaret and her husband Joseph Smith lived in Newport, South Wales and were no longer travellers. However, my ex-husband remembers travelling to the Gloucester area as a child and visiting his Grear grandmother who lived in a Romany caravan. Pretty sure they were fairground people. Their son will be 90 on Friday and my sons are going to see him so I will ask them to ask him if he has any more information. Is it true that many traveller children are not registered?
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That"s interesting , i did try to private message you today concerning the Proctor family , i think if you are a new user you have to make so many posts before you can send or receive a private message. I maybe able to share some information with you about the family
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That's brilliant. Could I put my email address on here or would it be removed?
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I've just found out that Margaret's husband's name was originally "King" not "Smith" - dodgy dealings I wonder?
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helo i remember seeing a William Calladine in the late 1890s up before the court the same time as someone i was researching, quite a caricature he was, so i read your post and looked for the Calladines, there are lots of records of them, they to are mostly pot hawkers round Whittington moor and those places, if you would like me to say more of the things I have found, just say, it doesn't matter if you don't, that's alright.
michael
Derbyshire courier Saturday 19 February 1887
NEWBOLD. Quarrelsome Hawkers.— Saturday, at the Chesterfield County Police Court, Henry Harrison, hawker, summoned William Calladine, his brother-in-law. hawker, for assaulting him at Newbold, on the 5th inst.—He pleaded not guilty. Mr. Middleton appeared for the prosecution. He said that the complainant was bedding his horse down on the night in question, when the defendant went with him to the stable and used some very abusive language to him, and struck him in the face, knocking him down.—Prosecutor had been allowed to keep his horse in defendant’s mother’s stable. Complainant corroborated, and said he had summoned defendant previously at Bakewell for a similar offence, where he was bound over to keep the peace for six months.— Jemima Harrison, complainant's wife, also gave evidence. —Mr. Middleton asked that defendant be bound over to keep the peace for 12 months. —Defendant stated that complainant attacked with the first blow, and pulled off his coat to fight him. It was in consequence of complainant’s ill-treatment of his wife that he (defendant) interfered. —Complainant said he had only had his arm out of splinters a fortnight, having had it broken. He denied having struck him or ill-used his wife. —His wife was also called, and denied that he had ever kicked her or ill-used her.—Defendant was bound over in his own recognisances in the sum of £10 to keep the peace for 12 months, And ordered to pay the costs, the bench remarking that if he came again for a similar offence he would be sent to gaol. He had been previously convicted.
Derbyshire times and chesterfield herald Saturday 24 June 1893
Curious Procedure in Punishment
William Calladine, a member of the gipsy fraternity, had been summoned by P.c. Taylor for drunkard disorderly conduct at Monyash, on the 10th inst. —Mrs Calladine appeared.—P.c. Taylor said that at about half-past five o'clock on the date named, he found the defendant drunk and creating a disturbance on the Bakewell road. He wanted to fight. The language was very bad. and the row continued for some time. —Supt. Lytle said that defendant bad been before the court several times.—Mr William Miliington, a resident of Monyash, gave corroborative evidence. He added that there were several people about. —Mr Lytle ; there are about 30 or so of them encamped in a field, and they have no end of snap dogs. They run the country, and pay no rates and taxes.—Mr Lytle : Not for the lanes and waste grounds.— Mrs Calladine : I have two houses in Nottingham. —The Chairman: Fourteen days hard labour.— Mrs Calladine asked if there was no fine, and the Chairman appeared amused at so unreasonable a request.-Mrs Calladine then left the court, and had gone down the street when she was fetched back, and was told that in addition to the imprisonment without the option of a fine, the costs amounted to 16s. 6d., and if this was not paid, there would be a further term of imprisonment for fourteen days.
here is a Family of older Calladines ,Gervase to was a Pot Hawker, what a lovely name, I,m sure I have came across that name before, anyway I have seen a few records, if you would like me to talk more just say, and I do hope you are keeping well.
michael
Ilkeston pioneer Thursday 24 may 1866
Highway Offences
Gervase Calladine, Stone Gravels, pot hawker, was charged by Acting-sergeant Wood house, with allowing his two horses to wander on the highway leading from the race-course Newbold, Littlemore, on the 11th inst. The defendant did not appear, but was represented by his wife. The officer proved the charge, and informed the bench that it was not the first time, by a dozen, he had caught them —Fined 2s 6d. Each and 10s 6d costs. or seven days.
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That's brilliant. Could I put my email address on here or would it be removed?
No....you can use the Personal Message service to exchange details though.
Carol
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Just returning to my tree after many years away, and have Bostock and Proctor in my husbands tree. I have potters, earthenware dealer, hawkers and china dealers in various generations, and ended up in Cardiff marrying a Woodruff. I have Jarvis (Gervase) in each generation.
I have Elizabeth Bostock parents from another thread on here but can't actually find a document on line that confirms it. Marriage announcement in newspaper and banns are all available, but parents not mentioned. I have baptism, for Elizabeth Bostock, so I assume it to be her - but maybe name is quite common.
I have a marriage a of Thomas Worth and Jane Proctor, and they use worth proctor on all the children then seemed to drop worth, so not sure if that is definitely the correct marriage.
Info on this thread is very interesting.
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Hi. I believe we had contact a few years ago, my great grandmother is Elizabeth Proctor,daughter of William Proctor. I have Maryann Parkers death announcement card , Maryann was nee Callindine ,her mother Mary was Gervase/Jarvis Bostock sister. Also have Maryann"s daughter Elizabeths death announcement card she married Solomon Bath. Have Elizabeth Proctors marriage certificate to Richard Gordon and Joseph Worth Proctors marriage certificate to Jane Lowther.Richard Gordons Aunt was Flora Ireland nee Swales, my Great Grandad was John Ireland, very confusing ! ???
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Hi cbcarolyn
I too have most of the people you mention in your latest post. Lots of Jarvis (Gervase). Thomas Worth and Jane Proctor were my ex-husband's 4th x great-grandparents.
Margaret
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Hi. I believe we had contact a few years ago, my great grandmother is Elizabeth Proctor,daughter of William Proctor. I have Maryann Parkers death announcement card , Maryann was nee Callindine ,her mother Mary was Gervase/Jarvis Bostock sister. Also have Maryann"s daughter Elizabeths death announcement card she married Solomon Bath. Have Elizabeth Proctors marriage certificate to Richard Gordon and Joseph Worth Proctors marriage certificate to Jane Lowther.Richard Gordons Aunt was Flora Ireland nee Swales, my Great Grandad was John Ireland, very confusing ! ???
I can see we chatted on another thread, but am not sure where I got to.
What date is Elizabeth's birth, I don't have her in my tree. Joseph Worth is Thomas Worth brother if my details are correct and it is he that is my line. He married Elizabeth Bostock and it seems it is her line that introduced Gervase. I assume Thomas (b1808) has more siblings than I have found, I only have Joseph.
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Hi cbcarolyn
I too have most of the people you mention in your latest post. Lots of Jarvis (Gervase). Thomas Worth and Jane Proctor were my ex-husband's 4th x grandparents.
Margaret
I have not been able to find any 1841 census data, so assume that they never made it! with all the travelling around I guess.
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Hi. My name is Steven Bath I live in Stoke in Staffordshire. I don't know anything about my grandparents. I have been told that I am related to a family called proctor and that there Romany gypsies. Is there any connection. Grandfather John Bath Grandmother Louisa Bath . nee proctor
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I don't have any Baths (yet) in my tree, although I think my Proctors were travelling china and earthenware dealers, so I am guessing collected 'stock' from the areas that produced the items and then travelled the country.
What dates are your Baths?
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Sorry for the very late reply,yes that is correct,The Bath family are related to The Proctors. Have we had contact in the past? My Great Grandmother was Elizabeth proctor daughter of William Proctor
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Maryann Callindine married William Holt,there daughter Elizabeth married Soloman Bath.Maryann later married Frances Parker. Maryanns mother was was Mary Bostock sister to Gervase/Jarvis Bostock. Gervase/Jarvis daughter also Elizabeth married Thomas Worth Proctor. I have the old death announcements cards for Maryann and Elizabeth which belonged to my Great Grandmother Elizabeth Ireland nee Proctor.
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just to make sure I am on the right track:
"Maryanns mother was was Mary Bostock sister to Gervase/Jarvis Bostock" are the birth dates of these 1788 and 1792?
Gervase/Jarvis is my direct ancestor
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Yes that is correct , her father was Thomas Callindine, I will have to check the dates and get back to you.
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Jarvis/Gervase Bostock was one of my great grandfathers too.
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Is your connection through the Callindines? My father has dna connections to the Holts , Maryann Holt nee Callindine the daughter of Thomas Callindine and Mary Bostock. Very confusing as my father's grandmother was a Proctor ,daughter of William. Gervase/ Jarvis Bostocks daughter Elizabeth who's mother was Lucy married Thomas Worth Proctor.
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Thomas and Mary are my 4 x gg's. There son Jarvis born 1820 is my 3 xgg he married Mary Bostock his 1st cousin. There daughter Eliza Calladine bn 1846 (not her sister Elizabeth aka Betsy) was my 2xgg. Eliza married Edward Gill and they had 1 son Samuel my great grandad.
I know all those pot hawker families based in whittington moor all married each other and it is very muddled.
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Thank you peggysmum , you r right in your research.