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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: Magsy41 on Wednesday 06 May 15 16:00 BST (UK)
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Hi folks,
I'm new to this so hope I get things right. My husband's family were quite well to do Crawford's in Greenock c.1800 +. Thomas Crawford b. 1730's/1740's married May Campbell in Callander. They lived in the Mansion House, Well Park, Greenock. I am struggling to find births for them, (so many Crawfords and Campbells). Thomas was a custom and excise officer and that is about all I know.
I have found out quite a bit about their son Agnew Crawford but cannot find a marriage for him yet on his daughters death certificate it states her parents as Agnew Crawford and Jane Taylor. I also cannot find a birth for Mary Crawford the daughter.
If anyone can point me in a direction that might lead me further it would be much appreciated.
Magsy41
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Hullo Magsy41 ;) and welcome to Rootschat.
If I might make a suggestion, getting started in family history can be fun but it should be taken one step a time and work backwards. If you have all your parental details then move on to the Grandparents then the greats in each family. Before long you will have a list as long as your arm so everything needs to be put on paper in the form of notes and of course in a file on the old computer.
Your enquiry as far as the Campbell and Crawford family, a little more info on them would be good as prior to the census in 1841 and the initiating of the GRO I think 1835 "don't hold me to that, I am in Australia" all the records come from the Parish registers. These of course cover all Baptism's not births marriages and funerals not deaths. I believe the Scottish records are quite good but it may be necessary to pay to join the Scottish Family History site.
Your request if you want some specialised help would be better placed on the Scottish Board with all the Shires listed and I think Greenock is in Renfrewshire so direct people in that area can help.
Good luck in your search
Neil
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Welcome from me too Magsy.
Presumably you have been using Scotland's People for your research so far? Can you tell us how you got to Thomas Crawford and May Campbell?
Neil, Statutory Registers in Scotland started in 1855 (these give very useful information). Prior to that you need use Parish Registers.
Neil is correct - this request would be better on the Scotland board. I will ask a moderator to move it for you. :)
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Thank you for your quick reply Neil and Ruskie. I have been searching for at least two years for this information. Tried everything from OPR's to newspapers to joining the Greenock area family history centre. The family history centre were very helpful but like me could find nothing more.
I wondered if because they seem to have both come from very powerful, wealthy families, they did things privately so it was not recorded. I have a letter sent by a relation of May Crawford to his wife, in which he talks of May as being his Aunt and telling his wife not to go too often to the big house as he cannot dress her as he would like her to be seen there.
All of their girl children who did not marry are living on private means (according to the census).
I have found too, that it seems these wealthy men had their mistresses and accepted that the children were theirs.
Seems like I will just have to keep searching and keep my fingers crossed.
Thanks once again Neil and Ruskie.
Mgt.
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Hi ,
The Wills & Testament section on Scotlandspeople has an Agnew Crawford , date 4th Sept. 1835 , merchant in Greenock.
Not sure if you have already seen that.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/person/view/1339661395
ev
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Thanks for this Ev but yes I have a copy of this but this is not an actual will. Agnew died intestate and this is really only an account of who were due him rent, loans etc. it does not give me any information at all about his family.
I have found a web site by someone related to Alexander Campbell in Jamaica. Agnew Crawford was the executer of this Alexander's will and I got the will where Alexander's mother is named Agnes McKinlay. The owner of the site has Alexander and May Crawford (Campbell) as brother and sister, which I suppose makes sense. Agnew being her first born could be the male version of Agnes but there is no father named.
It appears that it was a very common thing for these wealthy men to have mistresses and illigetimate children. Alexander had a mistress in Jamaica and at least three illigetimate children who were all named and left substantial settlements in his will.
I would have liked to find out who the Campbell father of Alexander and May was but I am beginning to think that is not going to happen.
Thanks again eve,
Magsy.
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Hi, found a couple of the people you seek.
Marriage:
Thomas Crawford
May Campbell
date:25 July 1774
place:Callander,Perth
Births:
Mary
born:20 July 1775 died:1856
Agnew
born:10 July 1777 died:6 August 1834
Arrabella
born:11 July 1779
*all births took place in Callander,Perth
could not find a marriage for Agnew & Jane Taylor. Who was informant on daughter's death cert? The informant may have got it wrong. I did however find a marriage for an Agnew Crawford on 18 April 1784 to Shusanna Anderson, who may be the brother/father of Thomas and whom your Agnew may be named after.
*the 3 births & parents marriage can be found on scotlandspeople.
also if you google Agnew Crawford of Scotland, a document from the Legacies of British Slave ownership comes up concerning Agnew Crawford being a trustee of Alexander Campbell which you may find useful. If you can give any info about Agnew's daughter Mary or what you know of Agnew, I can look further. Hope this helps,Kim
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Hi, Kim,
I apologise for not answering before this but have only just found your post. First of all thank you for all this information but I already have all this.
I am struggling to find parents for both Thomas Crawford and his wife May Campbell. I have a lot of information on their children and his children by his first wife who was Ann Moir it's just trying to go back further than Thomas and May. I think May's mother was Agnes McKinlay and this might be where Agnew got his name, it could be the male version of Agnes but I doubt if we will ever know for certain.
Thank you very much once again and sorry for taking so long to say it.
Mgt.
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Hello Magsy, have you tried Marion Campbell's archives at the Argyll and Bute Council? Apparently she has left an extensive Campbell family tree relating to the Jamaica Campbells who also lived at Kilmory, Kilberry etc.
The reason that I think your May Campbell might be somehow related is that these Campbells found it advantageous for their trading activities to marry their female relatives to customs and excise men at Greenock ;D
Do you have a name for May's nephew who wrote the letter?
Could the name May be short for something else?
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Hello Billiegirl,
Firstly thank you so very much for your message. i was in complete ignorance about the Argyll and Bute archives and your message got my grey cells moving.
The nephew of May campbell/Crawford was George Campbell, he was a ships captain and had been a prisoner in France during the Napoleonic war. When he came home he secured a ship which sailed to PrinceEdward Island where he wrote to his wife c/o Agnew Crawford (my husband's 3xGrtGrandfather), in it he asks her to give his best respects to his Aunt Crawford but hopes she will not go to the big house too often as there are always a lot of visitors and she cannot appear as he would wish her to be.
Can you tell me how you knew about the Marion Campbell archives as I also found information regarding an Alexander Campbell plantation owner in Jamaica who had Agnew Crawford as the executor of his will and both Agnew's sisters Arabella and Marion as beneficiaries.
As to the name May being short for something else, the sister Marion above was named as May or Marion on quite a few documents, so maybe May Campbell/Crawford had been baptised Marion.
I had a look at the Argyll and Bute web site but you have to go to visit to see the archives. Unfortunately they are on the West coast of Scotland and we live on the East. Will have to persuade my hubby to have a few days there before the summer ends.
Thank you very much again.
Magsy
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You are very welcome, Magsy. I've spent a fair bit of time researching these Campbells as my gt gt gt grandfather (Graham Campbell) was the steward at Kilmory for Peter Campbell III, and is mentioned in his will. Graham worked there from at least 1805 to the 1820's, so I've been trying to find out more about him.
I have Marion Campbell of Kilberry's book "Letters by the Packet" which has some correspondence between the Campbells in Jamaica, Kilberry, Kilmory etc. (they were all related). She died in 2000 but had transferred all the papers from Kilberry to Argyll and Bute Archives. They are called the "Kilberry Papers", and I believe include the extensive Campbell trees.
In a letter from Marion's book dated May 2nd 1732, from Peter 1st of Fish River, Jamaica, (also Kilmory) to Archibald Campbell of Knockbuy, Peter writes about their youngest sister Molly being "most in want" and "very base of apparel". In a footnote Marion Campbell writes:
Molly (Mary) was probably unmarried and living with her father. Eventually she married George Scott, Controller of Customs at Greenock - a useful contact for her brothers when they shipped their produce to the Clyde.
When I saw your post Magsy, I immediately thought May must have been in one of those advantageous Campbell marriages, that's why I think it a strong possibility that she's related to these Jamaica Campbells. I know from my gt gt gt grandfather's travels with Peter III that they spent a fair amount of time in Perthshire, too, so they probably had property there as well.
Definitely worth looking into, I hope your husband thinks its worth a trip! I'd love to go to Lochgilphead myself but I'm stuck in freezing cold Australia (minus 8 this morning!)
All the best with your fascinating search, Billiegirl :D