RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cavan => Topic started by: Stephen K on Thursday 07 May 15 09:39 BST (UK)

Title: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Thursday 07 May 15 09:39 BST (UK)
Does anyone know the history of The Half Acre in Cavan Town.

Thanks
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Maggsie on Thursday 07 May 15 10:53 BST (UK)
Hi,
Try this

Take me through the streets of Cavan - Irish Identity
www.irishidentity.com/extras/places/stories/streets.htm

Maggsie





Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: conahy calling on Thursday 07 May 15 15:58 BST (UK)
The Half Acre, Cavan Town gets a mention towards the end of the page on this link.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f9q/
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Thursday 07 May 15 16:04 BST (UK)
Thank you. I have been trying to find out information about The Half Acre and The Farnham Estate for some time now but with limited success.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: conahy calling on Thursday 07 May 15 18:02 BST (UK)
http://www.farnhamestate.ie/history

History of Farnham estate on first link


http://www.nli.ie/pdfs/mss%20lists/farnham2.pdf

2nd link   Farnham Papers -  very long
There is an index of persons commencing page 171
                  index     places                        p     190
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Neli on Friday 08 May 15 19:06 BST (UK)
I've also been trying to Find out about The Half Acre as I have relatives in my Tree from there. I know bits but not a great deal. I visited in the summer and from what I could make out from looking around and chatting to the locals it is a collection of streets, such as St Brigit's Terrace and River Street, at the river side of Cavan Town.
It was originally built to fulfil a dire need for cheap housing in the town. It's name came about because farmers /landowners in the countryside at the time were being asked/cajoled/forced to give up a half acre of land on which social houses could be built. Although the Half Acre in Cavan is probably much larger than half an acre the nature of it's housing stock led to it being given the name The Half Acre.
It was traditionally known as a 'rough' area best avoided by better class citizens although those days are thankfully long gone and it seemed a very nice place to live especially on the sunny day I visited.
Sorry if this is what you already knew Stephen, is there a particular family you are interested in that were from there? We could be long lost cousins :D
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Sunday 10 May 15 22:35 BST (UK)
The family I'm interested in is Crumlin & Bell. I know very little of the Half  Acre. I had heard that the Half Acre had been given to Cavan town by Lord Farnham for social housing but am not sure if this is correct or not.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Sunday 10 May 15 22:36 BST (UK)
Sorry that name should be Crumley
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Neli on Tuesday 12 May 15 14:27 BST (UK)
Spotted them, in 1901 they lived next door but one to the Allens that I am interested in. Imagine, they would have known each other all those years ago!
The Farnhams did own a lot of Cavan Town although the question of Land ownership in Ireland is often a 'hot potato'. They certainly built and laid claim to many of the fancier buildings and roads although there doesn't seem to be as much evidence about the ownership of the slum areas of town, I wonder why ;-)
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Tuesday 12 May 15 14:42 BST (UK)
I remember the Crumley children. They were my father's first cousins but when I knew them they were all adults living in Belfast. They probably played with your relations.
The Farnhams or more correctly the Maxwells did indeed own considerable amounts of land in Cavan. Unlike many of the landed gentry they purchased the land rather than were given it. "By the end of the nineteenth century they owned 29000 acres which gave them a recorded annual rent of £13100 in 1897" http://www.nli.ie/pdfs/mss%20lists/farnham2.pdf p7. They originally purchased 7000 acres from Sir Richard Waldron who had been given it but he ran into gambling debts & had to sell the land. His wife's maiden name was Farnham hence he called the house Farnham House.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Neli on Tuesday 12 May 15 17:02 BST (UK)
I don't know the Allens that well, they are the 'hidden' family. My Dad didn't even realise how many of them there were until I started my research, then he was quite excited about finding out more. Unfortunately I have not been able to find out much more beyond their time in the Half Acre.
Belfast is interesting there, did you ever find out what brought them there as I have only been able to hypothesise  between a possible link with the Allens and Belfast.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Tuesday 12 May 15 19:48 BST (UK)
In the 1820s the people in the northern counties of Ireland supplemented their income through flax cultivation and modifying their premises to allow for the taking place of the various processes in turning flax into cloth and supplying the local linen mills. However as a result of the Industrial Revolution the cottage linen industry collapsed in 1825 as mass production was more efficient. The centre of linen production then moved to Belfast. Over the years there was a vast migration of rural people into Belfast in search of work. In 1808 circa 25000 people lived in Belfast but by 1911 Belfast had 385000 residents making it the largest city in Ireland bar none. My research has shown that the Kennedys (of whom I am one) & the Crumleys moved as a family unit to Belfast at the turn of the century in search of work. There is a very good chance that the Allens did also.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Tuesday 12 May 15 22:11 BST (UK)
Sorry. I'm getting my ancesters mixed up. The Kennedys have no connection to Cavan. It's my grandmother's family the Bells that are from Cavan.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Neli on Wednesday 13 May 15 01:02 BST (UK)
That's interesting Stephen, I actually thought it was the judicial system that brought my own lot there. Having studied the Petty sessions of the time I discovered a lot of the half acre peeps were remanded up there for crimes such as begging or drunkedness. It's nice to hear that yours had an auspicious route to the North :-)
I thought Flax growing and production was more the jurisdiction  of the rural rather than than the urban dwellers of the town however. Do tell me more, I love to hear from fellow historians :-)
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Wednesday 13 May 15 07:19 BST (UK)
Well of course it wasn't the North then. That wasn't for another 10 years. In fact Lord Farnham was one of the main people pushing for all 9 counties of Ulster to make up NI when  partition did eventually come about. Usually crimes dealt with by the Petty Sessions were as the name suggests petty in nature & dealt with locally. I wouldn't expect someone to be sent to Belfast directly from the Petty Session court. Unless you know the Allens engaged in more serious crime I would be more inclined to consider they moved to Belfast as economic migrants.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Wednesday 13 May 15 12:39 BST (UK)
Regarding Flax growing. You are correct it is associated with rural rather than urban. Many tenant farmers in the northern counties needed the flax to supplement their income & pay their rent. With the crash in 1825 many farmers couldn't pay their rent & were evicted. They then migrated into the local town seeking non existent work. Having no money shanty towns usually evolved on the outskirts of the town. This I think is the origin of The Half Acre. I'm not sure about this hence my original post. Twenty years later the famine arrived at their door & with it further evictions from farms & more pressure on the urban areas.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Neli on Wednesday 13 May 15 14:27 BST (UK)
Sad to say both my ancestors seemed to have been sent to Armagh for some indiscretion or another so I hope it wasn't that rare or I come from some really bad stock, Lol!
Their crimes seemed mostly to be begging or encouraging their children to beg, it would seem that being poor was a criminal offence in that place and time :-(
I saw other people on the same pages being sent to Australia :0 for their crimes (I forget what they were). I think they must have been having a bit of a 'crack down on crime' during the years I was looking at ;-)
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Wednesday 13 May 15 14:50 BST (UK)
Sorry I was only thinking of Belfast & the distance that is from Cavan. Armagh of course is a different story as it is much closer to Cavan & it is quite conceivable that they could have spent some time there. Remember pre 1921 Ireland was the one country & so nothing should be read into someone having a stay in an institution that today would be in a different jurisdiction. Armagh of course isn't Belfast & I still think if you have found the Allens  in Belfast it is most probable economic migration. Perhaps after their release from Armagh.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Neli on Wednesday 13 May 15 15:11 BST (UK)
They ended up in Longford in the Midlands. There are, however, references to Belfast and Armagh in various bits and pieces I have discovered and I did wonder about it. In the 1911 Census they were staying in a guesthouse in Kilnaleck where they  claimed to be from Armagh and Belfast. Perhaps they were cutely referring to their 'Time' spent there. I think they were a bit of a pair for fibbing though as they also claim to have been married in Scotland for which I have yet to find the evidence.

Did your Crumley's speak much about their time in the Half Acre?
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Wednesday 13 May 15 15:19 BST (UK)
My Crumleys never mentioned The Half Acre. Coincidentally their Grandmother & my gt grandmother was from Granard in Longford. Interestingly on my Kennedy side in 1901 they claim their religion to be Church of Ireland & they are living off the Shankill Road now the protestant side of Belfast but by 1911 they have moved to Catholic Falls Road & they now describe themselves as Catholic. I have obtained their marriage cert & they were married in a Catholic Church. I suspect lies were told so that they fitted into their immediate environment. Perhaps this is also what prompted your ancestors to bend the truth a bit.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Neli on Wednesday 13 May 15 15:36 BST (UK)
I always think of Granard as a very Cavany sort of town despite it being in Longford. That probably doesn't make much sense but the people just seem more Cavan than Longford. Have you ever been? Is it just me that thinks that?
A lot of my Mums family were from thereabouts. My family have a cottage in Gowna where you can swim from Cavan to Longford and back which always tickles me.
Do you have many current links with Ireland that you can call on for support with your genealogy?
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Neli on Wednesday 13 May 15 15:40 BST (UK)
Ah, just checked your profile,you're in Cork so very well placed :-)
It must be great to be in Ireland with all the library and many other resources with easy reach.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Stephen K on Wednesday 13 May 15 18:59 BST (UK)
Not that easy. Local libraries concentrate on local history. As you know my roots are in Belfast & Cavan both places about 5 hours drive away from Cork. The National Library & Archives & the General Registry Offices are in Dublin, a 3 hour drive so just like people living abroad I rely on the post. The only advantage living in Cork is the access I have to more experienced Irish genealogists through the Coprk Genealogy Society.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Neli on Thursday 14 May 15 03:32 BST (UK)
5 hours! What are you driving? a bike? Lol!
Humour aside though,still a lot easier than ferries or planes.
Having said that, I didn't actually find the Librarians in Cavan very helpful until you coughed up the 25 euro. I forget that maybe we are a little bit blessed over here in so far as they will do anything within their means for free. If I were from Yorkshire I would be in clover (or shamrock). Oh and added to that, they actually gave us (I brought the aunt and unc along) the completely wrong family which led me along a garden path for a while. I did wonder about the spelling variation but knew that was common enough so went along with it.
One of my Uncs is married to a Cork lady but I forget her maiden name. The wedding was amazing in a hotel overlooking the sea. I've been a couple of times, beautiful place,it's on my list of places to live when I win the lottery :-)
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 15 May 15 20:15 BST (UK)
Eniskillen Chronicle & Erne Packet, 28 April 1836
For the Erne Packet - Rambles and Rhymes by Dubh Diarmid - No. 3 The Green Lake
"Unpoetical as the town of C______ may seem ... Up this stony hill, a very significant name it bears, though not an overlength one "The Devil's Half Acre"; I believe the good townsmen will not dispute the propriety of the appellation. Straight up and over this formidable portion of His Satanic Majesty's dominions was once the route of the royal mail ... On those rough rocky eminences to your left, as I have been told, was erected the battery of James II, on his retreat from the North. There was warm work on the Devil's Half Acre that day ... Here too is the present fair green ... Straight on before you was the old Dublin Road by Cross Keys ..."

"C_____" - Cavan not named but a couple of references point to Cavan ie. "fair greeen" ?? and "Cross Keys" (South East of Cavan)??

Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 15 May 15 20:29 BST (UK)
Drogheda Conservative Journal 9 Nov 1844

"... John Sheridan who admitted on his oath that he was occasionally kept and supported by one of the fair cyprians who resides on that romantic and classic portion of the suburbs of Cavan called 'College View' alias 'Mud-wall-row' alias 'The Devil's' half acre
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Grimupnorth on Thursday 01 October 15 13:54 BST (UK)
These are very intresting pages re. The Half Acre.My own link being that my grandmother lived there.Her maiden name was Mary Ann White and she owned a shop ,she married twice first to John Jardine with whom she had five children William.Tomas,Jack,May and Isabella.(1900s-1920s)John Jardine was a british soldier presumably stationed in the town .Her second husband was Bobbie Owens who was killed during the war ,his grave (cwg)is in the protestant graveyard in the town .(a most forlorn little place) All three sons fought for the British during the war and i think for this reason she was burnt out of her home by the I.R.A.  and migrated north to Belfast during the 1940s.(would this incident be documented anywhere?). as a footnote, which is perhaps a family myth Mrs.White was mentioned in the lyric of the Percy French song "Are you right there Micheal are you right" i may be wrong .Although the family was scattered to the wind they allways considered themselves Cavan people and had a high regard for all in the town.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 10 November 15 10:46 GMT (UK)
Having said that, I didn't actually find the Librarians in Cavan very helpful until you coughed up the 25 euro. I forget that maybe we are a little bit blessed over here in so far as they will do anything within their means for free.

I think perhaps you mean staff at a genealogy centre rather than a public library? I've never heard of a public library/collection charging such fees but genealogy centres do so.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Neli on Monday 25 April 16 00:00 BST (UK)
Forgive the confusion,

Cavan Genealogy
1st Floor, Johnston Central Library, Farnham St.,

I assumed it was a department within the library.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 02 May 16 09:46 BST (UK)
I've never heard of a genealogy centre located within a public library  :o
"Find out more about these famous families and all others at Cavan Genealogical Research Centre, based in the Johnston Library & Farnham Centre, Farnham Street , Cavan. The centre offers a full genealogical research service for people with Cavan ancestry."
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: MEW53 on Thursday 05 May 16 11:22 BST (UK)
Thank you. I have been trying to find out information about The Half Acre and The Farnham Estate for some time now but with limited success.
Hi,

Not that I can add anything to this post that is relevant to your quest, however I saw The Farnham Estate mentioned, my grandfather worked for Lord Farnham all his working life and lived in Killeshandra. He lived in a cottage provided by Lord Farnham and was responsible for looking after a lot of issues on the land eg. supplying timber to others etc.

Margaret  :)
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: franksmyth on Tuesday 21 May 19 10:17 BST (UK)
Spotted them, in 1901 they lived next door but one to the Allens that I am interested in. Imagine, they would have known each other all those years ago!
The Farnhams did own a lot of Cavan Town although the question of Land ownership in Ireland is often a 'hot potato'. They certainly built and laid claim to many of the fancier buildings and roads although there doesn't seem to be as much evidence about the ownership of the slum areas of town, I wonder why ;-)

Hi Neli, apologies for hijacking an old thread, but I have just started to look into my family history, and I came across this post. My great great grandmother is Julia Allen from the Half Acre. She had a son, Peter Smyth (birth cert spells it Smith) with a Mathew Smyth in 1891. I wonder if you ever came across her name? She doesn't appear in the area on either the 1901 or 1911 census. If you had any info, I would be very grateful.
Many thanks, Frank
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: ChelleM on Saturday 14 September 19 09:01 BST (UK)
My family are from the Halfacre - some still live there

Some of my ancestors were also sent to Armagh usually for being drunk!

My family names are Doonan, Smyth and Dempsey - the daughters also married into the Donohoes, Farrellys and Quinns
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: JSmith84UK on Thursday 21 October 21 19:42 BST (UK)
FOA GRIMUPNORTH

Hope you are still online.

Are you related to Mary Anne White who married John Jardine on 27th February 1911?

If so, her mum, Mary White was my 3rd Great Grandmother.

Hope you get in touch.

James
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 21 October 21 20:27 BST (UK)

Grimupnorth hasn't been on RootsChat since November 2015 but if their email hasn't changed, they will get notification of your post and will hopefully return.

..........
Are you related to Mary Anne White who married John Jardine on 27th February 1911?

If so, her mum, Mary White was my 3rd Great Grandmother.
..........

Marriage link 1911-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09939/5613659.pdf

John Jardine was a drummer in the Royal Irish Fusiliers (R.I.F.) and stationed at the barracks, Cavan.

This presumably is your gt gt gt grandmother with her daughter in 1911 census?
House 50 in Half Acre (Cavan Urban, Cavan)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Cavan_Urban/Half_Acre/339779/


KG



Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: JSmith84UK on Thursday 21 October 21 20:42 BST (UK)
Yes, that’s correct. 

Mary (mum) was originally Smith.

She first married John Farley (Farrelly) on 9th July 1876. 

Her second marriage was to Hugh White on 20th August 1880.

John and Mary had a daughter called Margaret who married James Agnew.

James Agnew and Margaret had a son called Henry Agnew in 1898. 

Henry is my Nanna’s Dad
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 21 October 21 21:32 BST (UK)


James Agnew and Margaret had a son called Henry Agnew in 1898. 


OK, so this is your Henry in the 1901 census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cavan/Cavan/Half_Acre_Street/1063270/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000453039/

Note that his young sister Mary aged 8 months was born in Scotland.

Scotlandspeople gives 4 births of a Mary Agnew in 1900.
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/search-our-records

KG

Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: JSmith84UK on Thursday 21 October 21 21:46 BST (UK)
Correct.  Mary was born 3 Aug 1900 Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Grimupnorth on Sunday 10 December 23 00:35 GMT (UK)
FOA GRIMUPNORTH

Hope you are still online.

Are you related to Mary Anne White who married John Jardine on 27th February 1911?

If so, her mum, Mary White was my 3rd Great Grandmother.

Hope you get in touch.

James
  O.M.G.James i am so sorry it took me this long to reply ...YES Mary Ann White ne Jardine was my Grandmother and Mary White was my Great Grandmother ...i am now 70 but i remember a trip to Cavan in the late 1960's ,we visited ederly relatives called Farley or Farreley who lived in an old house with a  bg cast iron hearth on which Tea was made .My Mother was Isabella daughter of Mary Ann who i remember vividly from childhood so if Mary is your GGG Grandmother then your family must spring from one of Mary Ann's siblings ..again i must apologise for my long delay (7years) until i found this thread again best wishes Douglas    GRIMUPNORTH.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 28 December 23 14:43 GMT (UK)

Quote
Her maiden name was Mary Ann White and she owned a shop ,she married twice first to John Jardine with whom she had five children William,Tomas,Jack,May and Isabella. (1900s-1920s) John Jardine was a british soldier presumably stationed in the town.

Five children born from the marriage in 1911 up to end of 1922.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09939/5613659.pdf

Eileen Maude 1912, Thomas 1913, Margaret Esther 1916, Isabella Henrietta 1917, Mary 1922
http://tinyurl.com/y64hzcz2

KG

Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: JSmith84UK on Thursday 28 December 23 17:09 GMT (UK)
William Jardine can be found under Jordine in 1920.

Just can’t find the birth registration for John Jardine.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Grimupnorth on Friday 29 December 23 00:17 GMT (UK)
Hi there James , i need to tidy up my research, it seems all the children were given nicknames or names shortened as used within the close family ....i had an uncle "Jack" who i presumed was John ...i may be wrong but i will correct with you after i have a closer look ...cheers James
 ...hope you had a  grand Christmas
Douglas
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 29 December 23 08:05 GMT (UK)

Quote
Scotlandspeople gives 4 births of a Mary Agnew in 1900.
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/search-our-records

Quote
Correct.  Mary was born 3 Aug 1900 Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

AGNEW
MARY
FARLEY (MMN)
F
1900
644 / 11 / 1848
HUTCHESONTOWN


Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: Grimupnorth on Friday 29 December 23 21:35 GMT (UK)
Kiltaglassan,
Thank you for your work on these pages.
Title: Re: The Half Acre Cavan Town
Post by: JSmith84UK on Friday 29 December 23 21:57 GMT (UK)
You are correct Kiltaglassan.

Mary Agnew, born in Scotland is my Nanna’s Auntie.

Mary Agnew’s birth registration shows that her Dad, James Agnew and her Mum, Margaret Farley (Farrelly) got married in Pawtucket, USA in 1897.

James Agnew was born in Manchester, England (where I live) in 1874.

Margaret Farley (Farrelly) was born in 1874 at the Half Acre (Fair Green Hill).

Margaret Farley (Farrelly) entire family can be found on the Census Return 1841 when her sister, Rose Anne submitted her application.

http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/reels/c19/007246686/007246686_01356.pdf

Parents of the children are Thomas Smith and Jane Beatty (Beattie I presume).

Marriage for Thomas and Jane can be found here.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1845/09288/5362999.pdf

Thomas’ Dad is William Smith.  I’m assuming that he was born around 1795.