RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: 1banshee on Sunday 17 May 15 14:06 BST (UK)
-
Hi, I'm struggling to read what was written in the Bride's details on the attached certificate - I can read up to Catherine Carr, her mark ...... and thats it - I presume the rest was maybe her employment although she had a child already as she had been widowed and her name was Catherine O'Donnell - Any help would be most appreciated. Many thanks in advance :)
-
There's the signature of a witness....
John B ....
then an occupation
clothes dealer
[spinster]
-
Many, many thanks and so quick too! Brilliant stuff :) :) :)
-
You're welcome. Will try to work out the surname of witness. What year is this? Was your Catherine a clothes dealer in the censuses? What does it say for her father's name? I wonder why she said she was a spinster if she had been married & widowed.
Is this a snippet from a Scotlands People document? Apparently you can ask them for a clearer image [free] if you cannot read the one you've downloaded.
-
I wonder why she said she was a spinster if she had been married & widowed.
Possible she was never married previously but used his surname or...................is this the correct cert. ???
Annie
-
or...................is this the correct cert. ???
...which is what I wondered.....
-
If you have an idea when Catherine died from census records.................................women retain their maiden names in Scotland i.e. looking for her death under her maiden name would be beneficial & probably in the area last noted on the census ???
Annie
-
Sorry, I was having a few problems logging in! I have the full marriage certificate as well as her previous marriage cert to Joseph O'Donnell, (they had a daughter called Margaret), before he died, (allegedly), and she then married my gg granddad John Doran. I also have census returns, on which you can see that she and John have Margaret in tow but I don't think she has any job details - I do know she had 13 children born alive and only five survived! I also have a copy of her death cert which also states that she was Catherine Doran, m/s Carr, formerly known as O'Donnell, if you want to see any of these I can attach as I must admit, this is my brick wall - the pair of them - I have the names of their parents but no birth details whatsoever :( So if anyone can shed any light on these two I would be forever in your debt!
-
Are her parents the same names on both marriage certs. ???
Just checking for possible differences to establish things ;D
Annie
ADDED..........Who registered her death & who were Joseph's parents & where was he born?
-
Well this has thrown me for a number of years tbh - on both marriage certs her fathers name is James Carr and James Kerr and her mothers name is Margaret Phillips on first cert and Ellen Phillips on the second - on her death certificate, (presumably they would have to rely on person reporting death for details), her father is now Thomas Carr, (that was her brothers name), and her mother is down as Helen Phillips - I have been told that the spelling was usually left to the registrar! The only thing that links all the certificates is mention of Joseph O'Donnell, her first husband, which is why I'm pretty certain they are the same woman :) Catherine Doran died on the 3rd November 1929 and on the certificate it states widowed 1st Joseph O'Donnell and 2nd John Doran. Incidentally I must mention that I looked on Scotlands People and could not find a Joseph O'Donnell death, (he was a fireman in the merchant service).
-
on both marriage certs her fathers name is James Carr and James Kerr and her mothers name is Margaret Phillips on first cert and Ellen Phillips on the second - on her death certificate, her father is now Thomas Carr, (that was her brothers name), and her mother is Helen Phillips -The only thing that links all the certificates is mention of Joseph O'Donnell, her first husband, which is why I'm pretty certain they are the same woman :) Catherine Doran died on the 3rd November 1929 and on the certificate it states widowed 1st Joseph O'Donnell and 2nd John Doran.
Have you checked if there is more than 1 marriage with a James Carr/Kerr ???
I can see why Ellen & Helen could be the same but Margaret................. ???
Do you have her parents marriage ???
Is it possible that James was 1st married to Margaret (possibly Ellen's sis or other relative) who may have died or they divorced & he was left with Catherine ???
Margaret may have been Catherine's mother but if James was widowed/divorced Catherine was possibly then brought up by 2nd wife Ellen ???
Annie
ADDED.....Who registered her death, who were James' parents, when/where did Catherine marry James & when/where did she marry John Doran?
-
I did a quick search on SP...............no marriage for James Carr or Kerr to either Margaret or Catherine Phillips ???
Annie
ADDED.......What year was she born circa (with ages given on both marriages & her age at time of death ?
-
Catherine married John Doran on 20 Oct 1886 and she was 24, she married her first husband Joseph O’Donnell in 1878 and was listed as being 17 and on her death certificate she was 65 on 3/11/1929, so as a guestimate, I’ve put her birth date somewhere between 1862 – 1865 - Her son Edward Doran registered the death. Catherines father was deceased on both marriage certs, so he was a goner before 1878. There is a brother called Thomas Kerr/Carr and I will have to double check but I think he got married in Scotstown, Co-Monaghan and there is a strong Irish connection with both families. Just as a mention, Catherine also named her daughter Margaret and I know that the families were sticklers for following naming patterns, which you would have thought would have made it easier :-\– her sister I think was also a Margaret. I haven’t been able to find any parents for James Carr/Kerr, no birth, marriage or deaths for either James or Margaret or Ellen/Helen – Honestly this brick wall has driven me mad ha ha, and the John Doran she married is just as much an enigma! ;D The other thing worth mentioning is that the Doran deviates between Dorran and Doran, but it is the same set of people. I once found my g g grandma under the name Mary Arey?!? Whilst searching for Mary Goostrey! ;D ;D
-
Another couple of things is that (1), on her daughters, (Margaret O'Donnells), marriage cert it has Catherine down as Doran, formally O'Donnell, m/s Kerr, on her husbands death certificate she is down as his Catherine Kerr and on her son's death certificate she is listed as Catherine Doran, formerly O'Donnell, m/s Carr - (2) The James Kerr was a Mason Journeyman as listed on the certs ???