RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: wyanga on Tuesday 19 May 15 00:10 BST (UK)
-
Hi
My 3Gt Grandmother was Margaret Campbell b 1775 died 1855 . she married Peter McKellar in Dunoon 7 Dec 1797. Her death certificate in 1855 gives Duncan Campbell and Nancy McNaughtan as her parents.She was living at Coul farm Glenfinart Argyll and buried at Lochgoilhead
I beleive that this is Cuil that was situated near Barnacabber which was the home farm for the Glenfinart Estate.
I have a contact who has a 4Gt Grandfather James Campbell b 1773 Lochgoilhead with parents Duncan Campbell and Nancy Naughtan as parents.Also buried at Lochgoilhead. At one period he was also living at Coul.
We cannot find any trace of the Duncan Campbell or Nancy (Mc)Naughtan in the Scotlandspeople records.
It is obvious that these two, Margaret and James were brother and sister and that it is likely that they came from the Lochgoilhead area.
I would appreciate any help in finding the Duncan Campbell and Nancy , very likely married about 1770.
Wyanga
-
Hi,
I should add that I, and my contact are in Australia, we are limited to the internet for searching. There could very well be other sources in Scotland that would provide some information in relation to Duncan Campbell and Nancy (Mc)Naughtan.
In both instances our information has come from the death certificates for Margaret and James.
We are aware that Nancy might be Ann/Annie or Agnes.
Wyanga
-
Hi
We have the details from Margaret McKellar nee Campbell 's death certificate in 1855 that she was aged 80 and her parents were Duncan Campbell and Nancy McMaughtan.
We have a baptism for a Margaret Campbell at Lochgoilhead with father Duncan Campbell and mother Agnes Mckoel 29th Oct 1775.
This date would be about correct to be our Margaret Campbell.
I have been told that the name Nancy was often used by those named Agnes , Ann or Annie.
My question is could the name Mckoel also be interchangeable with McNaughtan ?
I would appreciate if anyone could assist with information on naming patterns from the 1770's period.
Wyanga
-
Hi Wyanga
There are surnames that have disappeared over time, with the name morphing into something else over time. People often make refs to Clans etc and the reason why a surname changed. Not sure. My Highland family of MacDonalds were originally MacIsaac and in the early to mid 1800s moved to MacDonald (I can follow history for this name change at that time).
I found this on the surname you have:
MACCOEL: A family named McCoel, McCeol, or McKoel, seem to have pronounced their name McCoal."This name and its varied spellings occur extensively in the Lochgoilhead Parish Records from 1695 to 1770, when it ceases altogether. It was at one time common in Kilmorich Parish.
http://forebears.co.uk/surnames/mccoal
More work needed for sure...
Monica :)
PS: Adding this link on previous info for background www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=693856.9
-
Re first name variants, I think this is my all time favourite site for this, with a strong Scottish bias:
www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=Nancy
Monica
-
If you can make links, and issue of surname variant, other children/siblings also showing here:
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Acampbell~%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22LOCHGOILHEAD%20AND%20KILMORICH%2C%20ARGYLL%2C%20SCOTLAND%22~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Aduncan%20%2Bmother_surname%3Amckoel~
Monica
-
Monica
What you are saying makes a lot of sense.
your reference
MACCOEL: A family named McCoel, McCeol, or McKoel, seem to have pronounced their name McCoal."This name and its varied spellings occur extensively in the Lochgoilhead Parish Records from 1695 to 1770, when it ceases altogether. It was at one time common in Kilmorich Parish.
This would explain why the name Agnes McKeol has dissappeared. I have found that it is a Sept name from the MacNaughtaon clan , so it is possible that that name was adopted by the family in later years.
In the familysearch link you have also provided me with siblings for our Margaret . I will have to check with my collegue who has a James Campbell with father Duncan Campbell and mother Nancy Naughtan , i think from his death certificate his birth date should be 1773.
Congratulations you have provided me with a glimmer of light on this family.
Wyanga
-
Monica
Your link to Familysearch has provided 9 children for Duncan Campbell and Agnes / Anne Mckoel.
If the Mckoel name did pass out of useage in late 1770 then it would seem to be reasonable to assume that those family members may have adopted the clan name McNaughtan or variations of it in subsequent years.
The death certificates that we are looking at are 80 years later so most likely reflect that change.
We have a James Campbell with Parents Duncan Campbell and Nancy Naughtan that we believe must be of the same family but he is not included in the familysearch Christenings, but there are no children recorded from 1771 to 1775. From his death certificate he would have been born 1773 .
Again it would be reasonable to assume that for some reason his christening may have been missed in the transcriptions . This would make 10 children in the family and solve our dilemma in making our records " fit ".
Thank you very much Monica for your assistance.
-
I have found the marriage for Duncan Campbell and Agnes Mckoel on the 19th Jul 1757
It gives that Duncan was the son of Donald Campbell and was of Gan'nan Beg.
Is that a place name or an abbreviation for one?
Agnes McKoel was the daughter of John Mckoel decesed, late tennant of Craig.
I would appreciate any help with those place names. I assume they must be in Lochgoilhead Parish.
Wyanga
-
Agnes McKoel was the daughter of John Mckoel decesed, late tennant of Craig.
I am not experienced in this era and place names, so just some notes on bits of info for you to follow up on...
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk in their Wills & Testament section have a reference to: CRAIG IN CLACHANDYSART (or ZART). These are docs from the late 1600s.
Reference here in google books to Clahandysart:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=2c1JAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA1023&lpg=PA1023&dq=craig+CLACHANDYSART&source=bl&ots=_3sIb12fXU&sig=rKZYRrXw4X0i9b2PoRBNYUbDA68&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAWoVChMIn7vlgvrYxgIVyo4NCh3cOQ3h#v=onepage&q=craig%20CLACHANDYSART&f=false
Might also have been known as Clahan Dysart?
Monica :)
-
It gives that Duncan was the son of Donald Campbell and was of Gan'nan Beg.
Is that a place name or an abbreviation for one?
Hi wayanga,
Just to add to Monica's delights ;D
I think by the spelling this may be in/from gaelic although where it is, is the question ???
My reasoning is the "Beg/Beag" which in gaelic means small/little..........hope this helps.
Annie
ADDED...............I forgot to add it looks to be an abbreviation.
Is it possible to post an image please & where did the marriage take place ???
-
Ammack
marriage was at Lochgoilhead
I have had a problem with the attatchment. My image was too large at 520kb so have tried a photo of it.
It may be difficult to read
Wyanga
-
Nearest I can come up with without seeing the document is Ganavan Bay
Annie
-
I can't say for sure which it is to be honest but maybe someone with more info. on the historic side will be able to confirm one or the other as I can't find anything with historic background for the area.....sorry ???
Annie
-
I've had a good look at 1841 census & nothing even similar showing ???
Do you know what Duncan's occupation was as I'm wondering if it was the name of a farm rather than a place name ???
Difficult one ::)
Annie
-
Ammack
The only reference to Duncan's occupation that I have is from much later on, his daughter Margaret's death certificate in 1855, when he is referred to as "farmer".
So you might be right, it could be a farm.
I will try checking the baptisims for his other children on scotlandspeople and see if that reveals any other place names. There were 9 children so it is a possibility.
Wyanga
-
Ammack
The baptisims for son John 13 Nov 1762 Lochgoilhead gives Gaunan beg
Also for daughter Mary 5 Mar 1769 looks to be the same Gaunan beg.
I may have missread the "u" as an "n"
Wyanga
-
There are references on here to Gaunan/Gaunans & also the surname which Monica referred to "Keol" but someone might be able to find it on an old map of Argyll ???
A lot to read through to find them ::)
https://archive.org/stream/scottishrecordso09scotuoft/scottishrecordso09scotuoft_djvu.txt
Annie
-
Hi Both
Found this link http://las.denisrixson.com/2014/07/kilmorich-and-lochgoilhead/
It makes references to both Craig and Gaunanbeg. Right period really for both and also references to which maps sources to check. The maps may be available to view on the NLS site...
Monica :)
-
Got to pop out for a little while...
I think Gaunanbeg might show here http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400198 to the top of Loch Goyle/Goil (a few spellings for it) and then right, close to the shore of Loch Long.
Craigs is to the left of this, on the shores near the top of Loch Goyle.
Main map for area with joins http://maps.nls.uk/joins/581.html Been looking at top right map of the four.
Monica :)
-
Further map here http://maps.nls.uk/pont/view/?id=pont16#zoom=4&lat=2448&lon=3768&layers=BT
Craig showing as Kreig.
Modern mapping to help you see where Guanabeg was on a current map www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/record/rcahms/153807/guananbeg/rcahms
Monica
-
Good mix there Monica ???
Not only name changes but place name changes..................the joys of family history ;D
Knew you would "hammer it out" :P
Annie
-
Monica,
Brilliant! You are a gem.
Craig / Krieg would seem to be near the top of Loch Goyle and very close to Lochgoilhead.
Gaunanbeg , from the map would be on the Western side of Loch Goyle not far from Carrick Castle. I see a stream/burn named Gaunan on the map.
The link to six mile survey map seems to place Gaunanbeg on the Eastern side of Loch Goyle ??
Yes the family name changes and the locality names dissappearing or being renamed or spelt differently certainly make it difficult tracing a family once one gets back earlier than 1800.
Many thanks to you both for your persistance in finding these places.
Just as an aside, the first child Donald Campbell 10th Mar 1759 was from Cricean .
I see that this is also marked on the map near Gaunanbeg.
Wyanga
-
Monica
Your link to Familysearch has provided 9 children for Duncan Campbell and Agnes / Anne Mckoel.
If the Mckoel name did pass out of useage in late 1770 then it would seem to be reasonable to assume that those family members may have adopted the clan name McNaughtan or variations of it in subsequent years.
The death certificates that we are looking at are 80 years later so most likely reflect that change.
We have a James Campbell with Parents Duncan Campbell and Nancy Naughtan that we believe must be of the same family but he is not included in the familysearch Christenings, but there are no children recorded from 1771 to 1775. From his death certificate he would have been born 1773 .
Again it would be reasonable to assume that for some reason his christening may have been missed in the transcriptions . This would make 10 children in the family and solve our dilemma in making our records " fit ".
Thank you very much Monica for your assistance.
-
Hi Folks,
I have Duncan Campbell & Agnes McKeol in my family tree including their children, Sophia, John, Mary, Niel(my blood line) Agnes, Duncan, Margaret & Donald and their birth dates, I used Scotland's People. I have the birth and marriage for Niel (present day) Neil. Happy to pass on this information
-
Ayreshire 1,
This sounds exciting.are Duncan and Agnes your ancesters.?
I am travelling away from home at the present time I will get back to you in a few days
When I have access to all my records.
I am in Australia and Margaret McKellar nee Campbell is my 5th Gt grandmother
Wyanga
-
Hi Wyanga, Thanks for replying, do you have this information below for Duncan & Agnes? just checking that we have the same family. All my certificates are via www.scotlandspeople.gov
Marriage: Duncan Campbell & Agnes McKeol 19th July 1757 Lochgilphead Argyll. Ref: 527/1 20 60
Agnes, Annie etc are the same person, same with Elizabeth, Isabella and Grizzle.
-
Ayshire1,
Yes that is the information that i have. Duncan was from Guananbeg at his marriage.there is also a record that his father was Donald Campbell from Craig.see an earlier post in this disscussion. From an old map Guananbeg is shown as , Ruins near the Western shore of loch Long, not too far from Carrick Castle.
His daughter Margaret married Peter McKellar Dunoon .
Most of thier children were baptised as of Sligrachen, a bit further up the valley from Barnacaba.This would have been part of the Glenfinert Estate.
The last couple of children were given as Cuil, which was very close to Barnacaba. Also I have found that there was another son of Duncan and Agnes living at Cuil, James Campbell.
On Margaret s death certificate in 1855 named Duncan Campbell and Nancy MacNaughtan as her parents.
It took me a fair while to work out that Nancy MacNaughtan and Agnes Koel were the same person.
James death certificate showed similar names as his parents. I am in contact with one of James descendents here in Aust.
Wyanga