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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: bwgan ceredig on Friday 08 July 05 13:39 BST (UK)
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I would really appreciate some help.
On the 1901 census my grt grandfather Oliver Smith, is shown living in Brickyard Row Abersychan with his brother William Owen Smith. Their father lives next door - Fred Smith - with some more of his children.
On the 1881 census Fred is living with his mother and step father in Panteg. Also in the same house is what looks to be his brother William, his wife Elizabeth and their son William.
All OK so far. But...I have just received a birth certificate that states Oliver's parents are - William Smith and Elizabeth Smith (formerly Jenkins). Where am I going wrong??
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You didn't really do anything wrong - but the households are combined in 1901 from 2 separate households in 1891:
Will post them now
Arranroots
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Here are the two households in 1891
RG12/4362 170 22
SMITH Fred H M 34 - boiler cementer - Mon Risca
SMITH Sarah A W M 33 - Mon Trevethin
SMITH Sarah dau 9 - scholar - ditto
SMITH Caleb son 7 - ditto - Yorks South Bank
SMITH Edward son 6 - ditto - Mon Trevethin
SMITH Florrie dau 4 - ditto - ditto
SMITH Thomas son 10 months - ditto
//
SMITH William H M 38 - boiler cementer - Gloucs Coleford
SMITH Eliza W M 37 - Brecon
SMITH Thomas J son 16 - collier - Trevethin
SMITH William O son 10 - scholar - ditto
SMITH Edith A dau 7 - ditto - ditto
SMITH Gus son 4 - ditto
SMITH Oliver son 1 - ditto
Address: Brick Yard row, Trevethin, Abersychan, Mon
Thinking about it agin, I wonder if William and Elizabeth were simply absent on census night in 1901? Their children would still be "son of head of household" and this would not refer to Fred. Normally if his parents were deceased, william would be referred to as Head, even if his father were living next door.
I think you were barking up the wrong tree - understandably! :D
kind regards, Arranroots
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Here are some lost friends in 1901 - I think you will like this....
RG13/5028 35 19
BULL Elizabeth H W 66 - Gloucs Redbrook
COOK Elizabeth gdau U 19 - Mon Pontypool
SMITH Caleb gson U 17 - steam pipe cementer - Yorks Grangetown
SMITH William visitor M 48 - ditto - Gloucs Coleford
SMITH Elizabeth visitor M 46 - Brecon Llanfihangel
SMITH Annie E visitor 6 - Mon Trevethin
Address: 3A Coedcae Merthyr
Don't you just love it when it works out like that?? ;D
Excuse me while I feel smug for a moment
Arranroots ;)
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I think you have every right to feel smug and I am extremely grateful for the help!!! I'm relieved to find an answer...I will now have to eat some very humble pie. I had told my mum that her great uncle was...illegitimate...she weren't right happy I can tell you..ho hum!!
Once again sincere thanks for the help. That will teach me to double check everything and to stop making assumptions.
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On the contrary Julie - I think most of us would have made the same assumption.
Good job the 1891 census was available too!
I have a similar situation. I found a relative, Emma, in 1871 in Monmouthshire and was delighted, because I had thought she was an infant death. She was staying with her parents and had married, but was just the right age and born in the right place,.
I sent for her marriage cert and you could have knocked me down with a feather because she had the wrong father! Now I don't know who she is, except that she and her father had the same surname as my Emma. As you say, it really does pay to check!
Incidentally, Emma disappears again - I may never know...
Arranroots ;)
p.s. I've stopped being smug again now ;D
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Arranroots,
You are a star.
I notice from your signature that you have a Webb connection. Spooky! So have I. My grandmother was a Webb, born Pontypool area. Her grandfather was Richard Webb, of I believe West Dean - any relation?
Regards
Julie
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Hello again Julie
No I don't think so
My WEBBs came to Trevethin, Garndiffaith to be exact, between 1853 and 1862. Father George born Wotton under Edge about 1825 (I've forgotten!! :o )
Happy to be nearly related though - I expect they were distant cousins! ;D
Arranroots ;)
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Thanks to a very clever rootschatter (take a bow Arranroots ;D) my big Smith mystery was solved - but I've got a mini one now with the same family. :o
In 1881 William is living in the same house as Eliza Bull, Fred Smith and various others, but as a different household (hence my earlier confusion). I had believed that Eliza was mum and Fred was a brother. This seems fairly likely and my presumption is supported by the later cenuses (or is it censi??) Anyway, I am still fairly happy that I am right, but if that is the case he isn't at home in 1871. Why, oh why can't relatives stay in on census night? I know he probably had to go away to work, but her older son Edward is still at home (smacks of favouritism to me! ;))
Eliza was still a Smith in 1871 and I found her on RGO10/5299 page 6 (please don't shout, but I can't find a note of the schedule number :( :'() It's just that looking for William Smith, born Glos c.1853 (Lane End wherever that is!) is just like looking for a neddle in a haystack...any ideas or do I have to give up and say he has beaten me this time? >:(
Be glad of any suggestions
Regards
Julie :)
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Hi Julie
Just posted a reply to you and it got lost in the ether, so try again!
Have you got the family in 1861? They are all together and William is amongst them!
His place of birth is given as Newland (also the census place) and he is 9 years old. Father jospeh and Frederick also present. Can post if you don;t have it?
Ref: RG9/3980 76 6
Oh yes, also Mother in law, Maria THOMAS.
Over to you cuz!
;)
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:o :o :o :o :o
Well :o I mean :o what can I say :o
You did it again - hadn't got as far as the 61 - sometimes I'm just too methodical :-\
This transcribing thing is a bit of a nightmare as well >:(
Found some of my Stiff rellies in 91 transcribed as Triff ??? ???
Only did that because another rootschatter found them on the 61 under yet another variation ;D
What would family research be without absent relatives and wonky handwriting :-X
Regards
Julie :)
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I take that as a Yes then?? ;D
You are quite right to be methodical - you can miss all sorts of things by leaping across censuses, but in this case...I cheated!
Just not sure where William got to. There IS a candidate in 1871, but he has another SMITH with him, who doesn't belong.
11 Lower Main Street, Llanover, Blaenavon
William SMITH lodger U 19 - miner - Gloster
Robert SMITH lodger U 30 - ditto - ditto
Head of household William BRYANT also born Gloster
Forgot to write down the reference last night :-[
It is a possibility, bearing in mind they came & went in south Wales, but I wouldn't hang my hat on it.
NB: This is not MY Robert SMITH, so we are still not properly related! ;D
Arranroots ;)
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Thanks again :)
Sorry, should have made myself clear :-[ I have got access to the 61.
I'm sure we will find a connection one day ;D You may not want to admit it if we ever do, mind :-\ ;D
Regards
Julie :)
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I know you posted a longtime ago, but I've just been pointed here by a helpful man on FB. You and I are related! My Gt Grandfather was Fred, from Brickyard Row! I won't post more now in case you are no longer monitoring this thread.
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Hi Linda
How exciting! Julie hasn't been on RC for a while now but it would be great if she pops up in response to a real cousin making a post!
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you both :)
Kind regards, Arranroots :)