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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: Lynn Bilyard B. on Wednesday 10 June 15 17:47 BST (UK)
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I am interested if anyone has evidence of a connection between Billyard/Billiald/etc family histories in the counties of Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire.
I descend from Billiald families as early as late 1590's in East Markham region and know of an individual who has records of his history in Lincolnshire. We would like to know if there is evidence the two groups are related.
Thank you for any leads or insight!
L Bilyard
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Lynn......Have you seen Bob Copeland's excellent website ?......there are lots of Billyard....Billiald's on there...........Del.
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Del, I have not seen Bob Copeland's website. Can you share the link please? I live in Colorado so all of my research is through the internet and wonderful volunteers such as yourself! Thank you so much for the lead!!
Lynn
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http://www.bobcopeland.net/all-o/surname_index.htm .......Lynn, not sure that this will work..... but here goes........Del.
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Lynn, That link seems to have worked, hope it is of some use to you......I know that there is some connection between your Billyard family and my Ayto family, not that far back, I will have a dig around, and get back to you (if that's o.k. )........Regards Del.
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Del,
Of course I would like to share information!! I looked at Bob Copeland's information and was pleased to see my 2X and 3X great grandfathers. And it is only recently that I discovered the multiple spellings and the tracking of the surname into the late 1500's. What I have yet to do is find a direct line to that era. I have collected multiple male names, christenings, deaths, and marriages but lose the line at Richard Billiald b. 1754.
Have you seen the
"Methods for studying the Origins and History of Family Names in Britain:
Philology meets Statistics in a Multicultural Context"
from L. Larsson and S. Nyström (eds.), Facts and Findings on Personal Names: Some European Examples. Proceedings of an International Symposium in Uppsala,
October 20–21, 2011. ?
I found it to be fascinating as it highlighted several historic surnames, including Billiard/Billyard. It convinced me that my true Bilyard roots go back to the Markham area as early as medieval times.
Thank you so much for your replies and information. I hope we can continue to share information.
Regards.
Lynn
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"but lose the line at Richard Billiald b. 1754."
Baptism East Markham
25-8-1754 Richard son of Richard and Martha BILLIALD born 31-7-1754
5 other children baptised in EM to this couple, the first Elizabeth born 28-7-1746 and baptised 24-8-1746 only just scraping in before her parents married!!
Marriage East Markham
27-7-1746 Richard BILLIALD and Martha Smith
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Lynn, THINK this is right....... John Alfred Ayto 1882--1954 married Gertrude Milnes 1881--1939.....HER mother was Elizabeth Billyard 1860--1933, born at South Clifton, Nottinghamshire.....there is some confusion as to who her parents were, as on some records she is given as Elizabeth COOK, this could be because she had been married before.....or her mother was a Billyard and her father was called Cook......I am looking into it.......there are several Billyard websites/trees.....have you seen them ?.......John Ayto was my grandfather's brother........Del.
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Lynn, It looks like Elizabeth's mother was a COOK....or, married someone called cook.....her mother Rachel had her and a sister Catherine BEFORE marrying William Billyard 1837--1916......he is buried at North Markham, Nottinghamshire......his father was Richard BILLIALD......presumably William brought up the two girls as his own, along with his and wife Rachel's own children......it did happen a lot in those days, of course, HE may well have been their proper father............Del.
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Del,
you asked: "there are several Billyard websites/trees.....have you seen them ?" No I have not. If you can access the web addresses I would appreciate it!
The earliest Richard you have described is the earliest Richard I have in my notes. It is finding his parents that would help me on the brickwall.
I do have basic information on the generation of my GGgrandfather William Bilyard b. 1818 to Samuel and Mary (Booth), including some of his siblings' families. I wonder if your Elizabeth might be one of his sibling's daughters. Will go find my notes as soon to see if she is included.
Again, thank you so much for your input!
Lynn
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http://www.billyard.ca/ Here's one Lynn
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http://billyard.servehttp.com/~jaf/cgi-bin/desctree.cgi?searchid=I2320&gen=6 And another
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Don't know if they are any help Lynn, but worth a try.......I have a tree on Ancestry, if you want to view it, it is the "Clarke and Ayto Family" tree..... I am now adding Billyards to it..Regards Del.
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http://www.billyard.ca/ Here's one Lynn
Ha!! That is the website of my "partner-in-searching" and who inspired my starting this inquiry! His line is Lincolnshire Billyard and mine is East/West Markham, Nottinghamshire Billiald/Billiard/Bilyard. He is searching for the evidence that the two are connected. I hope he has joined in reading this thread!
Is it possible for you to invite me to see your tree on ancestry.com?
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Lynn, We have the same problem as you.......trying to connect two families with very similar names.......I have been trying for a long time to connect the Ayto and Eato families, of Lincolnshire / Nottinghamshire.....I KNOW that they are all connected to one John Eatough of South Collingham, Nottinghamshire.......but proving it is very difficult........the variant spellings don't help.........good luck with your Billyard / Billiald's...............Del.
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"but lose the line at Richard Billiald b. 1754."
Baptism East Markham
25-8-1754 Richard son of Richard and Martha BILLIALD born 31-7-1754
5 other children baptised in EM to this couple, the first Elizabeth born 28-7-1746 and baptised 24-8-1746 only just scraping in before her parents married!!
Marriage East Markham
27-7-1746 Richard BILLIALD and Martha Smith
Did you see this???
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Del
"Lynn, THINK this is right....... John Alfred Ayto 1882--1954 married Gertrude Milnes 1881--1939.....HER mother was Elizabeth Billyard 1860--1933, born at South Clifton, Nottinghamshire.....there is some confusion as to who her parents were, as on some records she is given as Elizabeth COOK, this could be because she had been married before.....or her mother was a Billyard and her father was called Cook....."
Fact
Baptism North Clifton
Elizabeth Cook 25-5-1862
Catherine Cook 25-5-1862
Daughters of Rachel Cook servant abode North Clifton.
Marriage Askham
18-5-1863
Rachel Cook and William Billyard
1871 census
Askham
William Billyard age 34 ag lab born Gamston
Rachel wife 31 b N Clifton
Elizabeth COOK dau 9 b N Clifton
George Billyard son 7
William son 5
Anne dau 2
Baptism Askham
20-9-1863 George son of William Billyard and Rachel father a labourer.
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Del
Baptism Worksop St Mary
Alfred Ernest Milnes 1-6-1863 parents Henry and Amelia father a painter abode George Street, 2 other sons baptised in Worksop to this couple.
Marriage Worksop
25-12-1848
Henry Milnes and Amelia Moody
Baptism Gamston
18-9-1837 William son of Richard & Eliza BILYARD abode Gamston father a labourer. Ties with Williams age and place of birth from the 1871 census.
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Lynn, We have the same problem as you.......trying to connect two families with very similar names.......I have been trying for a long time to connect the Ayto and Eato families, of Lincolnshire / Nottinghamshire.....I KNOW that they are all connected to one John Eatough of South Collingham, Nottinghamshire.......but proving it is very difficult........the variant spellings don't help.........good luck with your Billyard / Billiald's...............Del.
Hi Dell, this is Andrew, owner of billyard.ca. Lynn is right in that we've been discussing between us how to match up the families between counties (at least for the Billyard side). Lincolnshire Archive has parish records imaged online, which is fantastic, but it is not yet indexed. Unfortunately, my ancestors have a habit of picking up and moving ever few generations, and with no index it's hard to find which earlier records I should be digging into. Nottinghamshire Archive doesn't yet have their material online, it would seem. As such, the "convergence" is hard to do across from the pond.
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Larkspur......Thanks for that....does that mean that Rachel Cook was a single woman when she had daughters Elizabeth and Catherine ?......or is there evidence that she was married to someone called Cook ?............Del.
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Hello Andrew, Yes, it is very difficult trying to connect these families, we are having the same problem with the Ayto /Eato / Eatough families......all roads lead to the Collingham area of Nottinghamshire, but just can't make that final connection......maybe one day......Del.
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Larkspur......Thanks for that....does that mean that Rachel Cook was a single woman when she had daughters Elizabeth and Catherine ?......or is there evidence that she was married to someone called Cook ?............Del.
There is NO father on the baptism record.
Name: Elizabeth Cook
Registration Year: 1860
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Basford
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 142
This seems a likely candidate, her birth certificate would confirm the details.
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Class: HO107; Piece: 2136; Folio: 77; Page: 13; GSU roll: 87766
1851 census,North Clifton
Rachel Cook servant aged 11 b N Clifton
There is a Jacob S Milnes, a painter, living with them.
Mary Cook aged 30 a servant unmarried _Rachel's Mother?
Mary A Cook aged 9 servant b N Clifton.
Baptism N Clifton
7-6-1840 Rachel dau of Mary Cooke abode North Clifton.
10-12-1843 Marianne dau of Mary Cook abode North Clifton.
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Class: HO107; Piece: 862; Book: 1; Civil Parish: North Clifton; County: Nottinghamshire; Enumeration District: 13; Folio: 4; Page: 18; Line: 2; GSU roll: 438907
1841 census N Clifton
We have Mary Cook aged 25
Rachel Cook aged 1
and Jacob Squier aged 65 b London
The family are still with Jacob Squier on the 1851 census, he is now 78. I would have thought it a fair possibility he could be the father of Mary Cooks children.
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On the 1851 census Mary Cook details say she was born 1815 Collingham.
Baptism North Collingham
7-2-1815 Mary dau of William and Sarah Cook abode N Collingham father a labourer.
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Burial North Clifton
14-10-1856 Jacob SQUIER age 85, abode North Clifton
By 1861 Mary Cook was living as head still unmarried but with an "annual income" John Troop is her servant
Class: RG 9; Piece: 2476; Folio: 119; Page: 8; GSU roll: 542976
By 1871 Mary Cook is no longer Head, but John Troupe is. Mary is his housekeeper....
Class: RG10; Piece: 3539; Folio: 86; Page: 35; GSU roll: 839756
Catherine Cook- her grandaughter is with her on both census aged 1 and 11.
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Hello Andrew, Yes, it is very difficult trying to connect these families, we are having the same problem with the Ayto /Eato / Eatough families......all roads lead to the Collingham area of Nottinghamshire, but just can't make that final connection......maybe one day......Del.
Indeed. I had the luxury of visiting the Lincolnshire Archive in April and it helped further the Billyard research. Unfortunately, the archive (and I suspect the archives in other counties) have indices which are not available online; those indices (e.g., for LCC wills) are the tools that can help genealogists focus on a specific era and location. I'm currently "stuck" in the 1699-1750 era of Lincolnshire, near Frampton-Coningsby-Edlington part of that county.
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These are the only LCC wills I can see -
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These are the only LCC wills I can see -
Thank you Geoff-E. I have seen Richard Bilyard's 1704 will (quite a great read), but not the Bilyet one. I'll check the parish records from that county.
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Sorry, my image seems to have been cut off at the bottom ... the parish was Burton Coggles. :)
... and now it's all there. ???
Here's the register anyway http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=568677&iid=103529
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*waves to Lynn and Andrew*
Marking my place as a great grand-daughter of Samuel Billyard (1853-1933), son of John Billyard and Ruth (née Otter) of Walesby.
I am intrigued that the family's roots go back in the Markham area to the 1590s, as I had been told when I first started my research that they were immigrants from Flanders, following the Edict of Nantes in 1598, so that seems to fit together.
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Anstey, you probably have these.......
Baptism Walesby
12-12-1852 Samuel son of John & Ruth BILYARD father a labourer, there are baptisms for 6 other children in Walesby.
1851 census says John was born 1812 in Markham and Ruth 1815 in Boughton.
Baptism East Markham
4-7-1813 John son of Samuel & Mary BILLIARD father a labourer
Marriage West Markham
24-11-1812 Samuel Billiald and Mary Booth
Baptism Boughton
28-5-1815 Ruth dau of William & Elizabeth Otter father a labourer.
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Thanks Larkspur.
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Antsey and Larkspur and others interested...
I found a very informative study, which includes narrative of the Billiald/etc surname titled
Methods for studying the Origins and History of Family Names in Britain:
Philology meets Statistics in a Multicultural Context
from L. Larsson and S. Nyström (eds.), Facts and Findings on Personal Names: Some European Examples. Proceedings of an International Symposium in Uppsala,
October 20–21, 2011. Uppsala: Acta Acadamiæ Regiæ Scientiarum Upsaliensis (Kungl. Vetenskapssamhällets Handlingar), 37–58. found in pdf format at
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=www2.uwe.ac.uk/.../Methods-for-studying+the+origins+and+history+of+family&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 (https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=www2.uwe.ac.uk/.../Methods-for-studying+the+origins+and+history+of+family&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)
I noticed that there is also a followup study done in 2014.
This is where I feel secure in knowledge that the Billiald/etc family name has been recorded in one form or another in the East Markham region for over 600 years. I had also followed the Flanders train of thought but made little headway. The name has always appeared to me to be of French origin.
Hope you can access the study. Billiald name is on pages 17-18
Lynn
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Sheila,
Lynn here.....
I just reviewed this conversation, along with another thread, plus our personal messages, so would like to resume our conversation! I have researched and found the earliest Billiald/Billiard etc to be 1596, same as you mention.
You might find it interesting a research paper includes some Billiald/Billiard history of the surname : "The Methods of Studying the Origins and History of Family Names" that suggests the name goes further back to 1300's in East Markham.
(I have included the link to this paper here but I am not sure you will be able to get to the article. If not, please let me know so that I can email you the pdf document) It is titled Methods for studying the Origins and History of Family Names in Britain:
Philology meets Statistics in a Multicultural Context
from L. Larsson and S. Nyström (eds)
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=www2.uwe.ac.uk/.../Methods-for-studying+the+origins+and+history+of+family&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
..............
One another line of thinking....
I have many names, mostly unattached to a direct line, but they all have the Markham area in common. I have put the names into 3 charts, including Christenings, Marriages, and Notations of Male Billiald names (from the mss.cat.nottingham.ac.uk
I have a John married to Ruth Otter. John was brother to my gg grandfater William. John and William's father was Samuel ( my ggg grandfater) so we are what degree of cousins?
Would you like to share information, either here on rootschat or private messaging or email?
Hope to hear from you here or through messages soon!
Lynn
PS:
I know Andrew has a vast database of Billyard etc and our Billiard line is included in it as "unattached" to any direct lines. I have hoped to figure out how his information can help me get further back than Richard Billiald b. 1725.
*waves to Lynn and Andrew*
Marking my place as a great grand-daughter of Samuel Billyard (1853-1933), son of John Billyard and Ruth (née Otter) of Walesby.
I am intrigued that the family's roots go back in the Markham area to the 1590s, as I had been told when I first started my research that they were immigrants from Flanders, following the Edict of Nantes in 1598, so that seems to fit together.
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"I have hoped to figure out how his information can help me get further back than Richard Billiald b. 1725."
Baptism Dunham
27-10-1724 Richard son of John BILLIAD
There are baptisms of 7 further children at Dunham for John, but no mother mentioned. There is also a Thomas and wife ELIANOR baptising children in the same place at the same time.
"that suggests the name goes further back to 1300's in East Markham."
There is a Tho.and Hannah Billiard, Billiat, Billyard in East Markham who baptised 4 children. Although if they baptised as babies this John would only have been 15years old when Richard was baptised.
East Markham
0-5-1704 Hannah father Tho. Billiard labourer
0-0-1707 Samuel father Tho. Billiat
22-8-1708 Thomas father Tho. & Hannah Billyard
6-2-1709 John father Tho. Billiard.
The earlier baptism in EM on NFHS is 6-2-1568 for a William BILLIAD, no other information available.
I have not read back over the thread so excuse me if I have repeated myself!
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Hi Lynn (and others)
I have the research paper. The theory that the name goes back to the 1300s in East Markham actually sounds more credible to me than the theory that was current in the 1980s. I am sure that there are some people who bear the name, or a corruption of it, who do have those origins, but I’m no longer convinced that this includes us.
John, who married Ruth Otter, was my great great grandfather. His son Samuel (1853-1933) was my great grandfather, and Samuel’s daughter Fanny Elizabeth (1878-1930) my grandmother. We therefore share a three times great grandfather in Samuel, which would make us fourth cousins.
Lynn, if your e mail address has not changed, I can e mail you.
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Baptism Walesby
13-10-1878 FRANCES E Billiard dau of Samuel & Ann
12-12-1852 Samuel BILYARD son of John & Ruth
Marriage Walesby
10-1-1837 John BILLYARD & Ruth OTTOR
29-11-1877 Samuel BILLYARD & Anne Fletcher
Baptism Boughton
28-5-1815 Ruth dau William & Elizabeth Otter.
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Frances E Billyard was my grandmother. Interesting that she was baptised as Frances when she's Fanny on her birth certificate and was always known thus!
Thank you for posting this.