RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: yelkcub on Friday 12 June 15 10:00 BST (UK)
-
I’m just starting to research an ancestor JAMES FREDERICK HORSFALL (b. 1908, Darlington, UK). He arrived in Queensland in 1926 (and again in 1931 and 1933). The last sighting I have of him is Nov 1939 – (Trove) three newspaper reports of him in Long Pocket, Indooroopilly, the victim of a theft. At that time he was a 31-yr-old labourer on a cattle farm. I’m keen to find out if James married & whether there are any descendants. Very grateful for any help or advice on how to proceed.
Anyone reading this with interest in Lancashire (Rochdale) Horsfalls, I’m more than happy to share what I have discovered. I’m grateful to the RootsChat member who was kind enough to alert me to James’s emigration.
-
I think he might be in the Australian Electoral roles 1903 - 1980, you would need an a*cestry sub to see the record.
James Frederick Horsfall, 1980, Queensland, Capricornia
(He is not really a historical record because of privacy laws in Australia, so nothing appears on the Queensland bdm free searches, unless someone can prove me wrong)
https://www.qld.gov.au/law/births-deaths-marriages-and-divorces/family-history-research/
-
Hi
Electoral roll 1943
James Frederick Horsfall dairy worker Long Pocket road Indooroopilly
1949 Westwood Sanitarium welfare officer Capriconia Duaringa and he's there to 1963.
Seems to have no family with him.
Ciderdrinker
-
Many thanks indeed for these replies, which should give me a head start in tracing James Frederick Horsfall's life in Queensland. I have let my A* membership lapse (I had a long break from family history research), but will be able to access the records from my local library. I looked on the A* site this morning and already retrieved the following mentions - all places in Queensland
1930 Darling Downs
1937 Brisbane
1943 Brisbane
1949 Capricornia
1954 Capricornia
1958 Dawson
1963 Dawson
1968 Dawson
1972 Capricornia
1977 Capricornia
1980 Capricornia
Whether there has been more than one person called JFH I can't be sure, but on the face of it these electoral dates sound as if they refer to just one person. The only possible difficulty: you have JFH in Capricornia from 1949 to 1963, whereas the mention I found this morning has him in Dawson 1958-68.
Another image that I shall want to find refers to a Clara Horsfall as a passenger from England to Australia. Clara was James's mother's name: perhaps she sailed out to visit her son sometime before her death and burial in Darlington in 1931.
Plenty to get on with, thanks to the information you kindly supplied - for which many thanks indeed.
-
Could this be your man?
www.naa.gov.au (can request service record for a fee)
HORSFALL JAMES FREDERICK : Service Number - Q126357 : Date of birth - 10 Mar 1908 : Place of birth - DARLINGTON ENGLAND : Place of enlistment - KELVIN GROVE QLD : Next of Kin - BROWN ROWENA
-
Blimey - this comes as a bolt from the blue. This is undoubtedly the right person. A few years ago, when I began my Horsfall research I made a tentative note:
FreeBMD records the birth in Darlington, June Q 1911 of a Rowena M Horsfall. A Rowena M Horsfall married in Ilford, Essex Sep Q 1940, Frank H Brown.
At the time I could find nothing to prove that Rowena belonged to 'my' Horsfall family. Horsfall is not exactly an uncommon name in northern England - and, as for her married name - I think I gave up before I started on that one. Time to make a more determined effort.
I'm most grateful for this - more proof that RootsChatters are great, generous people!
So, James enlisted in one of the Australian services - presumably during WW2. If he gave his sister as next of kin, then in all probability he was unmarried
-
There is a little bit more info on his nominal roll entry - his service number (Q instead of QX) indicates that he enlisted for home service, not overseas.
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=82576
Debra :)
-
Many thanks Debra -
Much appreciated. Actually there are several good bits of information on the document you were kind enough to send - it all helps track his movements since his migration, and it confirms that he had a sister Rowena. Since I last logged on I've been following leads on Rowena's children - as far as I can tell Rowena had two daughters (so, James's nieces). On had the exotic name Diannysia, the other the more prosaic Patricia. So far I am nowhere with Patricia, but found Diannysia quite quickly - died in her early fifties, unmarried. Looking increasingly likely that James, too, was a lifelong bachelor.
Again, many thanks and best wishes with your own researches IAN
-
Hi,
The State Library of Queensland hold the Commonwealth Electoral Rolls beyond 1980 and it is very likely I will be visiting the Library next week and I can check the rolls for James in Rockhampton.
Gerry
-
Electoral boundaries and names change frequently and simply looking at the electoral districts on Ancestry.com.au - why not use the website name - doesn't really give you the fully picture of where James lived and his occupations. I can't see him with occupation cattle worker.
Australian Electoral Roll
1930
HORSFALL James Frederick Mt Beppo Farm Labourer
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article113452833
Queensland Times 17 Mar 1933
Personal.--Mr. James Horsfall, who has been in England, and has been absent from Mt Beppo for 18 months, recently returned home by the Orient liner, Orontes.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article119464183
Queensland Times 3 Apr 1935
James HORSFALL best man at SINCLAIR wedding.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article118362769
Queensland Times 6 Mar 1936
Respectable Young Men seek Position together, Farm. Dairy, or Agricultural,
10 years experience. Near Brisbane or Ipswich, Wages 25/-.
Reply to James Horsfall, Esk.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article118348410
Queensland Times 16 Mar 1936
STANLEY DISTRICT.
MT. BEPPO. (From a Correspondent) Thursday.
Social-Mr. James F. Horsfall, who has been living at Esk for two years, is now visiting friends in the Mt. Beppo district. He is a guest of Mr. and Mrs. O. V. Sinclair, Jun., and Mr. and Mrs. 0. Sinclair.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article118350998
Queensland Times 26 Mar 1936
Mr. James F. Horsfall, who for the past 10 years has lived in the Toogoolawah and Esk districts, has taken up a position at Moggill. after a short holiday in the city.
1937, 1943
HORSFALL James Frederick Long Pocket Road, Indooroopilly Dairy worker
WW2 Service Summary
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=82576
And his move to the Rockhampton district.
1949, 1954, 1963, 1968
HORSFALL James Frederick Westwood Sanitarium Welfare Officer
http://www.achha.org.au/detailed.php?num=48
1972, 1977, 1980
HORSFALL James Frederick 346 George Street Rockhampton No occupation
[If you google the address it is 346 George Street, Depot Hill.]
Cando
-
Will of niece Diannysia (Dianne Rowena) Brown may provide more family details (sister if married, nephews, nieces etc) http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fgt/
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-55612-003
http://gazette.uk.globe24h.com/0/0/london/1999/09/16/55612-0-2903.shtml
-
1934 Commonwealth Electoral Roll
Division of Darling Downs, Subdivision of Esk.
Horsfall James Fred, Gullinani, labourer.
Gerry
-
Thanks for that Gerry – I'd be glad to find out what became of James after 1980 - as long as it's not going to take up too much of your time. I have to say that I am most impressed by the thoroughness of Australian civic records. Best wishes IAN
-
Cando - That's an amazing amount of information - for which I am most grateful. I think my best plan for today is to use what you have kindly sent, follow up the links and construct a timeline, which I've found in the past to be a good way to begin to gain the fuller perspective on an ancestor's life.
When JFH left the UK for the first time, aged 18, he had been working as a joiner. I suppose that, arriving in a new country, he took whatever employment was available. It could be that he was recruited for farm work while still in the UK (which, let us remember, was in the middle of a terrible depression when the young man made the decision to migrate). Although his father was an undertaker, James's grandparents were farming people in Lancashire. Besides, for a youngish single man, working on a farm provided accommodation and companionship. I'm interested in the apparent change of career to working in the sanatorium, where he seems to have spent a good many years.
I think I need to download a well detailed map of Queensland to understand the extent of his movements over the years. Again - many thanks for this rich supply of material IAN
cupoflife - thanks for the links regarding Diannysia's will. I shall order up the probate report, just in case it gives me details of her sister.
-
cupoflife -
I've just ordered Diannysia's will online - takes about 10 working days: I receive an email when the item is available to view. Thanks for the link.
-
"I think I need to download a well detailed map of Queensland to understand the extent of his movements over the years. Again - many thanks for this rich supply of material"
Basically, Mt Beppo, Esk & Toogoolawah are all in the same area (adjoining postcodes) out a bit west of Brisbane.
Indooroopilly & Moggill are western suburbs of Brisbane
Rockhampton is 700km north on the Tropic of Capricorn
Cheers
Dawn M
-
Thanks, Dawn - I know its a cliche thing to remark, but distances are vast in Queensland, and James's move to Rockhampton was quite an undertaking. I'd love to know what good reason he must have had for such a radical relocation.
-
Hi
Rockhampton Crematorium
James Horsfall, 80.
D: 18th Feb 1989
C: 20th Feb 1989.
Gerry
-
Morning Gerry -
Just logged on before breakfast here in sunny Shropshire to find your post about JFH's death. He passed away very close to the death of his first cousin, my father - though I'm sure they knew nothing about one another.Thanks again for your kindness, interest and expertise in taking me so far in my research into this family.Next on my wish list is to find out what happened to James's father - the answer to which lies closer to home than far Rockhampton. Best wishes
-
James was on the Commonwealth Electoral Roll for 1982 and 1984 at the 346 George St but not on the 1989 edition.
His death may have made the Rockhampton newspaper, I will check it next time I am at the State Library.
Gerry
-
Sorry not to have replied sooner, Gerry. If you ever do get a chance to look for James's death in the Rockhampton press I'd be most grateful. I've been rather sidetracked, having managed to trace James's father's sister and her descendants. James had two nieces, one of which, named Diannysia, spent some time in Australia with her uncle James. So far I have no more detail. Diannysia sadly died unmarried in 1999.
-
I got to the Rockhampton Morning Bulletin ahead of Gerry (who knows that I did) and the notice appeared on 20 Feb 1989 but no family named.
Sorry it's a bit blurred - not so on the original!
Dawn M
-
Thank you, Dawn - that's an important clipping for my Horsfall file. James seems to have had a good life - 80 yrs old - and a long retirement in Queensland. I now learn that he was, for a while at least, in touch with his sister's daughters back in England. One of these daughters had a family, so the line of Tom Horsfall was not quite extinct with the death of James Frederick - my father's cousin, about whom, I'm fairly sure, he knew nothing. I'd like to thank everyone who has helped, via the Australian records, to trace James's life, and wish you the best of luck with your own research. IAN
-
Ian, you may be interested in this.
Today I was at State Library Qld looking up notices from the Roma paper for Ryerson Index. On the back page (Aussies usually read the paper from back to front :P :P ) of the paper (Western Star) for 23 September 2005 was a photo of two good looking young guys with the heading
"HORSFALL, a name to watch"
They were Alexander (age 15) and Carl (age 14) Horsfall, 'AFL-mad' brothers who play for Toowoomba's Codaroo Football Club. They are presumably from Roma, because it went on to say that they "travelled to Toowoomba every weekend" for 14 weeks, to play with their club. That's a round trip of at least 300km! Father was named as Des Horsfall.
[AFL stands for Australian Football League]
May be some connection?
Dawn M
-
Hi Dawn -
Sorry it's taken a couple of days to reply to your last posting: I've been offline for a couple of days (busy house painting!). Thanks for your Horsfall observations - this time, however, I'm fairly sure that these people are not related to my family of that name. I'm as sure as I can be that no other members of the family migrated to Australia, and that James Frederick remained a bachelor all his life, leaving no descendants. Horsfall is quite a common name in parts of west Yorkshire and Lancashire. In fact, part of the town of Todmorden, almost on the Lancs/Yorks border is actually called Horsfall. I don't really know what to do next to discover what happened to James F's father, Tom, who seems to drop out of sight around the time James emigrated. I'm at a loss, too, how to go about finding Tom's brother, James (after whom James F was probably named). He too seems to disappear from the records in the later 1920s - last heard of being sentenced to four months imprisonment for a drunken episode! Reading an account of his trial, it is perfectly clear to me that James was suffering from what we would now call PTSD, following his years in the trenches, where he received the wound that finished his army career.
Who needs to read mystery novels when one's own family has such dark puzzles?
Best wishes IAN
-
Oh well, just thought there may be a link.
Horsfall is not a common name out here in Oz
Dawn M
-
Horsfall is not that common a name outside Lancs and Yorks. During my research I've seen so often that the name has been mis-spelt 'Horsefall'. If you've undertaken research in the UK census, you will know how unreliable and bizarre the transcriptions can be. One Horsfall I was looking for in the 1901 census - ages and ages spent searching before I found him in London – had been transcribed 'Horseface'. Honest!
With thanks and all good wishes IAN
-
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Dawn M